Who are the two witnesses/prophets in Revelation?

[LoveGodForever]

As you can see, there is nothing in the context that would infer the death of the two witnesses as being a metaphor.

Actaully that is not correct I was quoting from the same scriptures earlier. The scriptures itself says that this is a metaphor....

Revelation 11
8, And their dead bodies (TWO WITNESSES) shall lie in the street of the great city, which SPIRITUALLY IS CALLED SODOM AND EGYPT, WHERE OUR LORD WAS CRUCIFIED. Did Jesus die in SODOM and EGYPT?

witnesses. Their bodies will be left in the streets of Jerusalem, not allowing them to be buried. And just as the scripture states, after 3 1/2 days, they will stand up on their feet (resurrect) and will be called up to heaven while the world watches them go.

The BEAST has power to kill the message and those who proclaim it. Who is the BEAST? (Revelations 13)

The reference to "Spiritually is called" is referring to Jerusalem being referred to figuratively as Sodom and Egypt and not the deaths of the two witnesses. Their deaths will literally take place at the hand of the beast, which will be followed by their resurrection. Everything regarding the two witnesses will take place literally just as it is written.

So in your view only v8 is a Metaphor? Where in that passage of the scriptures does it say everything is literal? Fact is it does not say any such thing.

v8 says it is the TWO WITNESES that LIE DEAD in the street of the great city, which SPIRITUALLY IS CALLED SODOM AND EGYPT, WHERE OUR LORD WAS CRUCIFIED.

Dont know about you but in v8 the scripture clearly says that this is a Metaphor of the death of the two witnesses.

 

[LoveGodForever]

JESUS declared of the Old and New Testament Scriptures, “They [plural]are they which testify [witness] of Me.” [John 5:39] and again :”This Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a Witness unto all nations.” [Matthew 24:14].

“The ‘Two Witnesses are the Old and New Testaments…..The essential purpose of the Scriptures is to give Witness to the mercy and verity of Jesus. Our Lord commands, ‘Search the Scriptures,…they are they which testify [witness] of Me.’

Yes thats what I got out of it as well. Well said..

 

[Ahwatukee]

Actaully that is not correct I was quoting from the same scriptures earlier. The scriptures itself says that this is a metaphor....

Revelation 11
8, And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which SPIRITUALLY IS CALLED SODOM AND EGYPT, WHERE OUR LORD WAS CRUCIFIED. Did Jesus die in SODOM and EGYPT?

As I pointed out to you, it is only Jerusalem that is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt and not the death of the two witnesses. You're extending the figurative meaning of Jerusalem as representing Sodom and Egypt to include the deaths of the two witnesses, which would be grammatically incorrect. The reference to spiritual is only in reference to Jerusalem.

Sodom and Egypt = Figuratively representing Jerusalem

Death of the two witnesses = Literally killed by the beast

 

[LoveGodForever]

As I pointed out to you, it is only Jerusalem that is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt and not the death of the two witnesses. You're extending the figurative meaning of Jerusalem as representing Sodom and Egypt to include the deaths of the two witnesses, which would be grammatically incorrect. The reference to spiritual is only in reference to Jerusalem.

Sodom and Egypt = Figuratively representing Jerusalem

Death of the two witnesses = Literally killed by the beast

Yet God's Word disagrees with you....

Revelation 11
8, And their dead bodies(TWO WITNESSES) shall lie in the street of the great city, which SPIRITUALLY IS CALLED SODOM AND EGYPT, WHERE OUR LORD WAS CRUCIFIED.

Where does it say in scripture that any of this is literal? Are the BEASTS literal as well?

 

[preston39]

Where in scripture does it say the two witnesses die physically? Why would it say that they die physically when the scripture says it is a metaphor? Once again........


I cannot find ..."it is a metaphor"....?



Revelation 11
8, And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which SPIRITUALLY is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jesus did not die in Egypt or Soddom...

The two great witnesses are the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT scriptures. Those proclaiming them have the TESTIMONY of JESUS which God's Word says is the SPIRIT of PROPHECY (Rev 19:10)

This testimony of the WORD of God from the two Witnesses (Daniel and Revelations) will be rejected by those who it is sent (the World; Rev 14:6-12) and those who proclaim this message and it WORDS will be rejected and some put to death by the Beasts of Revelations 13 who have power to kill those who do not follow it over God's Word (Rev 13:5).

L...,
I have heard this conclusion before. But, no one can answer related questions. Perhaps you can;

How can the OT and NT lie in the streets, be martyred, come back to life then ascend into heaven? Please detail...?

 

[SovereignGrace]

My $$$ is on Remus & Romulus...

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

L...,
I have heard this conclusion before. But, no one can answer related questions. Perhaps you can;

How can the OT and NT lie in the streets, be martyred, come back to life then ascend into heaven? Please detail...?

It's those that give Testimony of the Two Witnesses(OT/NT) who are martyred.The ones standing alongside the Lamb on Mount Zion.
What I find odd is people who think the two olive trees and two candle sticks are two of Moses,Elijah or Enoch.Based on logic they say Moses and Elijah represent the law and the prophets.Is that where the oil comes from?Or from the faithful witness?How do people even know of Jesus?

 

[LoveGodForever]

L...,
I have heard this conclusion before. But, no one can answer related questions. Perhaps you can;

Much of the BOOKS of DANIEL and REVELATIONS are Metaphors or have symbolic meanings where it is scripture that interprets these symbols and metaphors. For example a BEAST that I was referring to ealier is not literal BEAST but a Metaphor or symbol that the scritpure itself interpret....

BEAST = KINGDOM, NATION, POLITICAL POWER (Daniel 7:17, 23 and Prov 28:15)

HORN = Also is a KINGDOM, NATION, POLITICAL POWER (Daniel 7:24; 8:5, 21, 22; Zechariah 1:18-19, Rev. 17:12)

WOMAN, (PURE) = True Church (Jeremiah 6:2; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:23-27)

WOMAN, (CORRUPT) = Apostate church (Ezk 16:15-58; 23:2-21; Hos. 2:5; 3:1; Rev. 14:4)

WOMAN (HARLOT) = Apostate church/religion (Isaiah 1:21-27; Jeremiah 3:1-3; 6-9)

DRAGON = Satan (Revelation 12:9)

etc etc... let the scripture interpret the scriptures.

The TWO Great Witnesses are also symbolic of the OLD and NEW Testament scriptures;

Jesus taught that the Scriptures (those then in existence) are “they which testify of Me.” (Jn 5:39) The Old Testament testifies, or bears witness, of Him. The Old Testament is manifestly His “witness”.

In another place Jesus explains that, "This gospel of the kingdom must be preached in all the world, for a witness unto all nations." (Matt 24:14) The gospel is also to be preached as “a witness” – Christ’s witness. Together, the Old Testament and the New Testament are Christ's two witnesses.

These are the two parts of the Sacred Record, both of which, says Jesus, “testify of Me.”

..................

A second point, concerning the identity of the Two Witnesses, might be added.

These Witnesses “are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth” (Rev 11:4). This is a direct reference to a vision in the Book of Zechariah.

In vision, Zechariah sees one Candlestick, “and two olive trees by it” (Zech 4:2-3) The prophet asked, “What are these, my lord?” The angel responded, “Do you not know what these are?” The prophet answers, “No, my lord.”

Then the angel appears to evade the question, but it is by no means an evasion. The angel immediately responds, “This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel: ‘Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit,’ says the Lord of hosts.” (Zech 4:5-6)

The Candlestick and the Olive trees were “the word of the Lord” supplied by the Spirit of God. Specifically, in Zechariah’s case, the word of the Lord was given to encourage Zerubbabel when he was confronted by a “great mountain” of difficulties. (It was Zerubbabel that led out in the work of re-building the Temple at Jerusalem.)

How can the OT and NT lie in the streets, be martyred, come back to life then ascend into heaven? Please detail...?

The EVERLASTING GOSPEL of the OLD and NEW Testament scriptures, lie in the streets as those being rejected by the WORLD. This is the treatment of those who have been sent to preach its message.

BEING DEAD in the street is symbolic of the WORLDS rejection of the EVERLASTING GOSPEL and those who have been sent to preach it prior to Jesus 2nd COMING.

When the World thinks it is KILLED the two great witnesses and those who proclaim it LIFE will be given once more to God's WORD and those that hear it will fear before it and will not stop it...

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word...

 

[TMS]

I haven't read what everyone else has said in this thread but i'll state what i believe the two witnesses are.

The Old and the New testament of Gods word.

 

[TMS]

Much of the BOOKS of DANIEL and REVELATIONS are Metaphors or have symbolic meanings where it is scripture that interprets these symbols and metaphors. For example a BEAST that I was referring to ealier is not literal BEAST but a Metaphor or symbol that the scritpure itself interpret....

BEAST = KINGDOM, NATION, POLITICAL POWER (Daniel 7:17, 23 and Prov 28:15)

HORN = Also is a KINGDOM, NATION, POLITICAL POWER (Daniel 7:24; 8:5, 21, 22; Zechariah 1:18-19, Rev. 17:12)

WOMAN, (PURE) = True Church (Jeremiah 6:2; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:23-27)

WOMAN, (CORRUPT) = Apostate church (Ezk 16:15-58; 23:2-21; Hos. 2:5; 3:1; Rev. 14:4)

WOMAN (HARLOT) = Apostate church/religion (Isaiah 1:21-27; Jeremiah 3:1-3; 6-9)

DRAGON = Satan (Revelation 12:9)

etc etc... let the scripture interpret the scriptures.

The TWO Great Witnesses are also symbolic of the OLD and NEW Testament scriptures;

Jesus taught that the Scriptures (those then in existence) are “they which testify of Me.” (Jn 5:39) The Old Testament testifies, or bears witness, of Him. The Old Testament is manifestly His “witness”.

In another place Jesus explains that, "This gospel of the kingdom must be preached in all the world, for a witness unto all nations." (Matt 24:14) The gospel is also to be preached as “a witness” – Christ’s witness. Together, the Old Testament and the New Testament are Christ's two witnesses.

These are the two parts of the Sacred Record, both of which, says Jesus, “testify of Me.”

..................

A second point, concerning the identity of the Two Witnesses, might be added.

These Witnesses “are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth” (Rev 11:4). This is a direct reference to a vision in the Book of Zechariah.

In vision, Zechariah sees one Candlestick, “and two olive trees by it” (Zech 4:2-3) The prophet asked, “What are these, my lord?” The angel responded, “Do you not know what these are?” The prophet answers, “No, my lord.”

Then the angel appears to evade the question, but it is by no means an evasion. The angel immediately responds, “This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel: ‘Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit,’ says the Lord of hosts.” (Zech 4:5-6)

The Candlestick and the Olive trees were “the word of the Lord” supplied by the Spirit of God. Specifically, in Zechariah’s case, the word of the Lord was given to encourage Zerubbabel when he was confronted by a “great mountain” of difficulties. (It was Zerubbabel that led out in the work of re-building the Temple at Jerusalem.)



The EVERLASTING GOSPEL of the OLD and NEW Testament scriptures, lie in the streets as those being rejected by the WORLD. This is the treatment of those who have been sent to preach its message.

BEING DEAD in the street is symbolic of the WORLDS rejection of the EVERLASTING GOSPEL and those who have been sent to preach it prior to Jesus 2nd COMING.

When the World thinks it is KILLED the two great witnesses and those who proclaim it LIFE will be given once more to God's WORD and those that hear it will fear before it and will not stop it...

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word...

I agree, well done i couldn't have said it better.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I haven't read what everyone else has said in this thread but i'll state what i believe the two witnesses are.

The Old and the New testament of Gods word.

So, are the old and new testaments going to be killed by the beast and lie in the streets of Jerusalem and then 3 1/2 days later stand up on their book binders and be called up to heaven?

The context identifies the two witnesses as actual men who will be prophesying in the streets of Jerusalem and who will bring every kind of plague they want as often as they want.

 

[iamsoandso]

I haven't read what everyone else has said in this thread but i'll state what i believe the two witnesses are.

The Old and the New testament of Gods word.

I suppose this will show my age,lol in that long before Google there was a time where libraries and books were the go to source...

In his commentary B.W. Johnson (Barton) called "The Peoples New Testament" https://www.christianity.com/bible/commentary.php?com=john&b=66&c=11 said the same of the two witnesses. (see the portion,"the meaning and fulfilment").

That was the first time I read of the opinion that the two witnesses were the old and new testament. At a Church I was attending in the 1960's they had copies of B.W.J.'s commentary in the book holders in the back of the benches. The Church I was attending determined that they did not fully agree with portions of the commentary and removed the books and I was given two sets(they are two volumes each,hard bound).

In reading them for many years afterwards I took note that Barton Johnson was very interested in the works of Robert Fleming,(the younger) and so I wondered if Fleming had also held this position on the two witnesses and after researching the idea I found that in fact Fleming also shared this view in his writings https://books.google.com/books?id=4...nepage&q=robert fleming two witnesses&f=false

lol,,Now bare in mind that Fleming the younger and the elder lived from the 1600's and into the 1700's so their writings will make use of the long "s"=(f) so witnesses will appear as "witne(ff)es",lol...

I’m not sure if Robert Fleming(the elder) held this same view as his son did but wondered about this for a long while as to where this view about the two witnesses rose but at least form the 1700's from Fleming and the 1800's from Johnson unless someone else knows a source from before this. However though I am not fully of the same opinion on the matter but explored it the same.

 

[garee]

Moses died
Enoch and Elijah didn’t physically die


in revelation 11 the two witnesses die
can a glorified body which has put on immortality die?

No one has received any glorified body. All saints die not receiving the promise. It is called walking by faith our hope is in front of us.for who hopes for that which they already have.

We walk by faith and not after that seen flesh and blood. It’s an evil generation that do require a sign before they will believe God not seen.

The two witnesses are the law and the prophets.(sola scriptura). Moses and Elijah represent the perfect law of God. It’s never about the flesh of any man. That would be more the goal of the father of lies to have a person search the flesh .
Having a hope built on the corrupted flesh knowing no one has received their new bodies’ makes it all about walking by sight.
T
he Holy Spirit informs “I will send you Elijah before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.” Yet the use of his name simply spoke of the power or authority of prophecy.The same with Moses he represents the law of God.

One day the disciples came to Jesus asking if you are Son of God , then where is Elijah? They knew the prophecy said that Elijah must come before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. Jesus answered in Matthew 17:12-13:

”But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Matthew 17:12-13:”

Then the disciples understood that He spake unto them of John the Baptist.” So according to Jesus, the Elijah prophecy was fulfilled by the coming of John the Baptist.

The two witnesses the Law and prophets (sola scriptura) are silenced or killed in that way .But the law and the prophets will be resurrected and remain till heaven and earth pass away

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Again forbidding the gospel to go out by silencing men is to kill the law and the prophets.

Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost. 1Th 2:15

 

[Nehemiah6]

Much of the BOOKS of DANIEL and REVELATIONS are Metaphors or have symbolic meanings where it is scripture that interprets these symbols and metaphors.

Your post here is a metaphor for HOW NOT TO INTERPRET Scripture. Why don't we then simply say that everything in the Bible is a metaphor, and each person can simply interpret everything according to their fancy?

 

[FlyingDove]

Your post here is a metaphor for HOW NOT TO INTERPRET Scripture. Why don't we then simply say that everything in the Bible is a metaphor, and each person can simply interpret everything according to their fancy?
[/SIZE]

Say's the guy who claims James is writing to Hebrew Christians. When clearly James is writing to the 12 tribes.


Say's the guy who claims repentance is an absolute requirement for salvation. When Acts 10:44 show's gentiles receiving the Holy Spirit thru Faith plus nothing. Paul repeats how to be saved in 1 Cor 15:1-4, Romans 10:9-10, Eph 2:8 just to mention a few. Thru Faith in Christs payment Plus nothing.

Say's the guy who claims Paul was chosen to replace Judas, When scripture is clear Acts 1:26 Matthias was chosen to replace Judas.

Nehemiah6's method of scripture interpretation: BECAUS HE SAY'S SO!

Nehemiah6, For you call out anyone one how to interpret scripture, which you do daily, is laughable!

 

[louis]

I'm wondering if John of Patmos is one of the two witnesses, as the angel informs him at the end of the previous chapter that he must again testify, befoe many peoples, nations, tongues, and kings?

Revelation 10:11 [FONT=&quot]And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.[/FONT]

 

[garee]

So, are the old and new testaments going to be killed by the beast and lie in the streets of Jerusalem and then 3 1/2 days later stand up on their book binders and be called up to heaven?

The context identifies the two witnesses as actual men who will be prophesying in the streets of Jerusalem and who will bring every kind of plague they want as often as they want.

Makes a intersecting parable.

I would think according to the prescription in 2 Corinthian 4:18 it would never be about that which is seen the temporal (man) but that which moves him, the unseen eternal God working in man to both will and do his good pleasure... giving us the good pleasure or honor to work it out with him . His yoke is easy his gospel is perfected in our weakness, our bodies of death that lusts after the things of this world..

God who is Spirit remains not a man as us and neither is there any fleshly mediator set between God and man as a infallible human umpire(daysman).


It’s the power of book binders (sola scriptura) that will be silenced or killed for a short period. The plagues will come to those who go above that which is written requiring a sign before they believe.

Jesus said no sign will be given that men must seek after before they believe. Signs of observation yes, sign as a wonder or source of unseen faith, none were given . The last the sign as a wonder of Jonas was fulled

I do not think humans will bring every kind of plague they want as often as they want. The plagues are that God sends a strong delusion so men can believe the lie . There are many plagues , the wrath of God is being revealed in that way

There will not be some human passing out plagues at his will. But I would think it begs the question .when Christ comes will he find faith or will men have silenced the gospel in respect to the Son of man’s work of faith or three day labor of His love?

I would offer

2Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. Rev 22:18

 

[Chester]

I think the two witnesses will be Elijah and Moses:

(1) Because of the correspondence of the miracles done in Revelation and what these prophets did in the OT

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
(Elijah)
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy (Elijah): and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will (Moses).

(2) These were the two on the Mount of Transfiguration

(3) Elijah did not die and Moses' place of burial was uncertain and hidden by God

(4) They are both mentioned by name in the last three verses of the OT

Malachi 4:
Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.[SUP]5 [/SUP]Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

The NT does say that John the Baptist was "Elijah", but it is also true that when John was asked if he was Elijah - he said "No". I think John the Baptist came in the spirit of Elijah, but this prophecy yet awaits a final fulfillment.

(5) If the church is taken out at the rapture, how will there by any people saved. God's plan is to sent back Moses and Elijah (literally) to begin a revival. How better would you capture the attention of the Jews than to have Moses appear?

Is this a guess? Of course! But there is good Biblical evidence to support the guess.

 

[garee]

(5) If the church is taken out at the rapture, how will there by any people saved. God's plan is to sent back Moses and Elijah (literally) to begin a revival. How better would you capture the attention of the Jews than to have Moses appear?

Is this a guess? Of course! But there is good Biblical evidence to support the guess.

The corrupted bodies of Moses and Elijah have longed return to the dust from where they were formed. What we will be when we receive our new bodies no one knows. No one has their new bodies which will not be flesh and blood. The rudiments of this corrupted world.

Moses and Elijah represent the law and the prophets as sola scriptura or as it is written. It is never about the flesh of men .If the Jew’s attention was not captured when the Son of man came in the flesh than neither would they if Moses and Elijah would . We walk by faith the unseen not by sight as that seen

Even the Son of man declared of his own His flesh it profits for nothing .

The word of God will be silenced or killing for a short period but as God perfect law it will not vanish until the heaven and earth does and the new eternal appears.

 

[louis]

I'm wondering if John of Patmos is one of the two witnesses, as the angel informs him at the end of the previous chapter that he must again testify, befoe many peoples, nations, tongues, and kings?

Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

As Isaiah 28 is when the land of Israel will be made desolate, I then also wonder if the one who speaks with stammering lips to unjust Israel at this time is one of the two witnesses?

Isaiah 28:11 [FONT=&quot]For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.[/FONT]