Is Jesus's return imminent?

Ahwatukee · Feb 2, 2018

Yes, there is definitely proof that Jesus does not return to the earth when he gathers his church Adstar. Please see the following:

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well. 2In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am."

In scripture above, Jesus is telling his disciples and all believers, that He went to the Father's house (heaven) to prepare places for us. Then He says that He is going to come back and take us to those dwelling places in the Father's house so that we can be where He is. 1 Thes.4:13-18 is a detailed account of this event. Within this scripture it states that we will meet the Lord in the air. From there He will take us back to the Father's house.

So as you can see, there is definitely scriptural support in that when Jesus returns to gather the church He is not going to return to the earth, but will meet us in the air and take us back to heaven. It is not until the Lord returns to end the age that he returns to the earth which is after his wrath has been completed, which is what Matt.24:29-31 is describing.

Ahwatukee · Feb 2, 2018

Adstar said:

If your trumpet point is "spot on and correct" please show me anywhere in the context in or around the sounding of the 7th trumpet where the gathering of the church is even hinted of as taking place. You won't find anything mentioned.

As I told you, just because the word "trumpet" is used does not mean that it is referring to the same trumpet.

In addition, the "last trumpet" of 1 Cor.15:52 is a blessing to the church, where the 7th trumpet is a plague of wrath. They are not the same trumpet. The making of the last trumpet as representing the 7th trumpet is a false teaching that has been going around for awhile now.

Bladerunner · Feb 2, 2018

ComeLordJesus said:

Nothing. But which return are you talking about. Where the second return of Christ is not imminent. There are many prophecies that HAVE TO HAPPEN according to scriptures before the 2nd advent.

On the other hand, the Rapture (Latin Vulgate), The Harpozo(Greek)-(caught-up (English)) is imminent and can happen without any event happening. "..deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus.." -1 Thessalonians 4:17 (Latin Vulgate)

The Doctrine of Imminency is taught to throughout the Bible, In these passages:1 Thessalonians 1:10; 4:18; 5:6; 1 John 3:2,3; Philippians 3:20;Revelation 22:17-21; Hebrews 9:28; Titus 2:13; (Imminency = The condition of something good or bad about to occur at any time.)

These Passages speak of the Rapture not the 2nd Advent: The above passages are also part of the groups below.

John 14:1-3; 1 Cor 1:7-8; 1 Cor 16:22; Col 3:4; 1 Thess 2:19; 1 Thess 5:9; 2 Thess 2:1; 2 Tim 4:1; 1 Peter 1:7, 13; Jude 21; Rev 3:10; Rev 2:25; 1 John 2:28; James 5:7-9; 1 Tim 6:14; 1 Thess 5:23; 1 Thess 4:13-17.

The catching up of the Bride prior to the Wrath of GOD at 6th Seal will happen and time is short...Look to Jeruslaem/Israel or God's Time Clock.......

Adstar · Feb 2, 2018

Ahwatukee said:

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well. 2In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am."

And the place that Jesus went to prepare in heaven, the place with many rooms is ????? drumroll:::

The New Jerusalem da daaaaa

Now what happens to the New Jerusalem ? Where does it end up? Does it stay in heaven? Lets read::

Revelation 21: KJV
3 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. {2} And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. {3} And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."

So the Holy City the New Jerusalem is going to come out of heaven and come down to men.. onto the new earth AND it is called the Tabernacle of God because God is going to live there with us too.

Revelation 21: KJV
22 "And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. {23} And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. {24} And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it."

So there you have it scripturl support that debunks The popular belief that people will be spending eternity in heaven.

Adstar · Feb 2, 2018

Ahwatukee said:

If we look at the scripture where the last trump sounding happens we see thatit will be a mystery that was revealed by messengers of God::

Revelation 10: KJV
7 "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

Now who was a servent of God that revealed a mystery in the scriptures?

1 Corinthians 15: KJV
50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. {51} Behold,I shew you a mystery ; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, {52} In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. {53} For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. {54} So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

It was Paul

ComeLordJesus · Feb 2, 2018

Adstar said:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: 1Thess.4:17

Nehemiah6 · Feb 2, 2018

Adstar said:

Scripture does NOT say that the New Jerusalem is going to come "onto the new earth". In fact that would be an impossibility. But too many assume that this is what Scripture says when we read that it DESCENDS OUT OF HEAVEN. But we do not read that "it descends out of Heaven and comes down to earth".

Since the New Jerusalem is 1,500 CUBIC MILES (the size of a continent x 1,500 miles in height) it could not possibly descend to this earth, and it never was meant to descend to the earth. It is called "the heavenly city" and will remain a heavenly city. Indeed, the whole context shows that because there are no heavenly bodies, the New Jerusalem will become the source of light for the nations on the earth, thus replacing the sun. Please note carefully (Rev 21:23,24):

And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

We are not told as to how the kings of the earth will bring their glory and honor into this city, but since we are talking about the New Heavens and the New Earth, the present limitations which exist may be removed entirely. The important point to note is And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it. How can they walk in the light of it unless it is a source of light outside the earth?

Deade · Feb 2, 2018

ComeLordJesus said:

Here is your scripture: 1Thess. 4:17: "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." You see, we meet in the air, then we are ever with the Lord; not ever in the air. We have other references where the Lord goes when He comes back.

You claim Jesus is coming for a secret rapture, and He will be coming into only the air. I see we are still disagreeing. If Jesus comes into the atmosphere, that is still "a coming." There is no secret rapture there are saints dying all during the tribulation.

When Christ comes back the very next time, He will encircle the earth while the asleep in Christ will rise and join Him. Then those that are alive will be changed into incorruptible spirits to join him. Jesus said that no man has ascended to heaven. John 3:13: “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”

Don't give me a reference to the transfiguration when Jesus appeared with Moses and Elijah. This is an example of a vision. But a vision is just a vision, we should not draw doctrine from them. A vision is an exception to what is literal. All the patriarchs in Hebrews 11 are still waiting to get to heaven. I remind you this was written after the cross. No, Hebrews 12 doesn't prove anyone in heaven. It is just a reference to Zion.

Everyone says that we will have glorified bodies, after our resurrection. I don't agree, we will be spirit. John said: John 4:24: “God is spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth.” and in 1 John 3:2: "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is." Sounds like we will be spirits too.

This is the very next event:
Luke 21:25-27: “And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. The sea and the waves roaring; and then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.”

Think about it.

Zmouth · Feb 3, 2018

I think Jesus filed for a deferment from returning to earth, but then again the word of God said that if in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. (See 1 Cor 15:19) Did you hear him now?

Ahwatukee · Feb 3, 2018

And now, not only have you pigeonholed the word "trumpet" but now you are doing the same thing to the word "mystery." You are simply misapplying scripture to satisfy your belief.

The mystery that Paul spoke of in 1 Cor.15:52 is regarding the event of the living being changed into their immortal and glorified bodies and being caught up to meet the Lord in the air. The mystery mentioned in Rev.10:7 is referring to a different mystery. Therefore your bolding of "I SHOW YOU A MYSTERY" is not going to force the use of the word Mystery as referring to the same event.

Ahwatukee · Feb 3, 2018

Adstar said:

Just to drive home my point home about not pigeonholing words, the word "mustérion" translated "mystery" is used 28 times in the NT, most referring to a different mystery. Therefore, just because the same word is being used does not mean that it is speaking about the same mystery. Same thing for trumpet, just because you see the word trumpet does not mean that the same trumpet is being referred to.

MatthewG · Feb 3, 2018

Trumpet. There was a purpose for them in the old testament, and you can see what they were used for from that context.
There are two that I do know of one is a Trumpet signifying the coming of Someone, and Trumpet also can signify the start of a war.

You know a lot the Jewish people knew the Old Testament, the Apostles, Had the Old testament to study. Like Timothy,

2 Timothy 3:15 You have been taught the holy Scriptures from childhood, and they have given you the wisdom to receive the salvation that comes by trusting in Christ Jesus. 16 every Writing [is] God-breathed, and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for setting aright, for instruction that [is] in righteousness,

Timothy was someone who was taught the scriptures from Childhood, and they only had the old testament back then. So they learned many things by reading that book.

I didn't read a whole lot of the posts, but from no, the Lord Jesus Christ return is not happening any time soon, or forever.
I believe He came back once, and fulfilled what He said would happen, as far the destruction and death of Jersulam, ending the Age of Moses, and the Law, in which we live in a new age, The Age of Messiah (Which Jews believed will never end), and under the new covenant.

There wont be an end to this earth ever. Because there will never be a time when Jesus Christ comes back anymore, and this leaves the ability for many people to come to the knowledge of Him, from young to old, forever and ever and ever.

Makes me thankful to know and understand!

But you are most certainly entitled to your very own belief system you have in your own life.

Which you can read about the new, and old Cov. in Hebrews Chapter 8-10.

God bless you all.

Ahwatukee · Feb 3, 2018

Hello MatthewG,

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth,for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying:“Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God.He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

AS you can see from the scripture in Rev.21 & 22, this present heaven and earth will indeed come to an end, which will take place after the end of the thousand year reign of Christ and after the great white throne judgment.

AS you can also see from the scripture above, it states that God himself will dwell with us in the New Jerusalem. It also states that He will wipe every tear from our eyes, that there will be no more death, mourning, crying or pain. Neither will there be any sun or moon to shine on the new heaven and earth nor any oceans. Based on those characteristics we cannot possibly be living in that time period, since we still experience all of those things and we presently still have the sun and moon.

This is not our own belief system, but what we have learned from studying the word of God. There has to be some standard in order to know the truth regarding every Biblical topic. Everyone cannot just have their own view and all be right. The scripture that we have been presenting to you show what the scriptures say vs. what you are proclaiming. You need to get on board with the truth and stop being blown away by every wind of doctrine.

It is one thing to suggest something and discuss it, but when you proclaim it as being the truth when it is not supported by scripture, then you become a false teacher and you need stop doing this, because you will be held accountable for them.

* Jesus is coming to gather His church prior to His wrath

* The antichrist is going to make his seven year agreement with Israel

* The Day of the Lord via the seals, trumpet and bowl judgments will take place

* The Lord will return to the earth to end the age after the completion of His wrath

* The beast and the false prophet will be cast into the lake of fire

* Satan will be thrown into and sealed in the Abyss

* Thousand year reign of Christ from Jerusalem on the throne of king David

This is a summary of the chronological order of events as described in the word of God.

Lucy-Pevensie · Feb 3, 2018

Ahwatukee said:

You may be right that the same words do not always signify the exact same things but it is unlike The Lord to have a random trumpet (or anything) with no connection to anything else anywhere in scripture.

followjesus · Feb 3, 2018

ComeLordJesus said:

what should we believe and live by regarding this matter ? Be ready today. and be ready tomorrow. and when it is today, be ready Live as if we believe He is coming Back soon. its a consistant teaching were not going to be able to figure it out, the apostles all believed it to be imminent and that was 1900 plus years ago. those signs are perpetual until the gospel reaches the end of the earth as a witness. and then suddenly, without warning to those who are not watching, He will come. Like the days of Noah, daily life people marrying, eating drinking...But Noah had His eyes to the Lord and His ears to the Word. He was watching, was ready because His eyes were on God

mark 13 .....
32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

33Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. 34For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. 35Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:36Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. 37And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Lucy-Pevensie · Feb 3, 2018

MatthewG said:

Mathew, you are entitled to your own opinion but please understand that the physical return of Jesus is an integral part of our faith. His second coming to earth is expressly described in most [if not all 66] books of the Bible. Many prophecies are not completely fulfilled until Jesus reigns as king on the earth. The Spirit and The Bride say "Come Lord Jesus"! It's very exciting and something to really look forward to. But don't take my word alone for it, seek the guidance of The Holy Spirit and look more in the word. The scriptures regarding this are numerous. The Lord bless you in your study.

mj007 · Feb 3, 2018

But don't confuse belief with faith. Faith is Gods language, belief is our language. Have faith without conditions that are based on your beliefs, which often leads to the quarrelling about different beliefs. Faith is what is important. If faith is based on a belief, rather than faith+you+God, then it is a very weak faith, and one is prone to argument about beliefs, rather than engaging with bringing people in faith towards God, because that is what faith does, not belief.

Lucy-Pevensie said:

Lucy-Pevensie · Feb 3, 2018

mj007 said:

But don't confuse belief with faith. Faith is Gods language, belief is our language. Have faith without conditions that are based on your beliefs, which often leads to the quarrelling about different beliefs. Faith is what is important. If faith is based on a belief, rather than faith+you+God, then it is a very weak faith, and one is prone to argument about beliefs, rather than engaging with bringing people in faith towards God, because that is what faith does, not belief.

Unrelated blathering.

Ahwatukee · Feb 3, 2018

Lucy-Pevensie said:

Morning Lucy,

The truth is that there are many trumpets in scripture with different meanings, signaling different events.

My point to those who have been relating the "last trumpet" as being the "seventh trumpet" of the trumpets judgments, is scripturally unsupported. They have done the same thing in interpreting the "last trumpet" as being synonymous with "the great trumpet" of Matt.24:31, which again is not the same trumpet event.

It is not a "random trumpet" but a specific trumpet, being the last of its type. My contention with them, is that they cannot just grab a hold of the word "trumpet" found somewhere else in scripture and apply that trumpet to the one of their choice in order to support their belief. They do the same thing with the word "thousand" in Pslams 50:10 and then apply the same meaning to the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20:1-7 making it a non-literal thousand years and thereby distorting the meaning that God is conveying, which is a literal thousand years.

The bottom line is, we don't know what type trumpet is being spoken of regarding that last trumpet. So, to just apply it as being the 7th trumpet because it is a trumpet and the last of the set is faulty exegesis.

Regarding this, I have demonstrated that the "last trumpet" is a signal of the gathering of the church, the blessed hope. In opposition, the 7th trumpet of the trumpet judgments is one of the trumpet plagues of God's wrath. In addition, there is no mention anywhere in the context of the 7th trumpet that mentions or even hints at the gathering of the church. You'd think that the event of the entire church being gathered would be big enough to make some mention of it if it was taking place at the 7th trumpet.

These people who are bringing in these teachings are according to scripture as being those false teachers that we are warned about, people not putting up with sound doctrine and gathering around themselves a great number of teachers (YouTube, websites, seminars, books, and hearsay. The word of God has been greatly under attack and these people are Satan's foot soldiers.

As believers in Christ we need to study His word and teach, contend, correct, rebuke and commend. I refuse to join the world in their desire for political correctness. I will continue to make known the truth of God's word!

DaveWatchman · Feb 3, 2018

ComeLordJesus said:

Nothing has to happen.

Jesus' Return is imminent.

Nothing has to happen that we can see, or will see in the news. But we can't see everything. We can't see angels holding back the four winds of heaven while the 144,000 are being sealed.

Jesus returned already. He told Mary not to touch Him because He had not yet ascended to the Father. Then a week latter He was asking Thomas to touch Him in order to feel His scars, so that Thomas would believe. Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

He came another time to knock Paul off his horse. But then He went back again. He can make as many Visitations as would be required, He might be making 144,000 Visitations right now, but heaven must receive Him until the time has come to restore all things.

I think that the days are shortened already on the front end. And that when it begins, it will be over before you know it. The pre tribbers won't be disappointed. The Abomination is happening right now, right before our eyes. It's standing too close for us to see, where it ought not to be and not everything is what they told us it would be.

The falling away culminated with the man of sin taking his seat in the Temple of God, the daily was taken away in Heaven's Temple, the Abomination was set up, the two witnesses were given their power and the composite beast opened it's mouth to blaspheme the name of God and those who dwell in Heaven. We are only awaiting the fire that he will cause to fall from heaven which will be the catalyst for his revealing at the sounding of the fifth trumpet.

Jesus talked about a "day when the Son of Man is revealed" in Luke 17. I think that day has become imminent, just like on the day that Lot left out from Sodom. In this case the "Son of Man is revealed through His Actions. They will speak louder than words. They will know that the Lord has spoken in His Zeal.

Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

And among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls.

Peaceful Sabbath.

Is Jesus's return imminent?

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