Once Saved, Always Saved ... OR Can you Lose your Salvation?
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Amen! I've heard Roman Catholics admit that they hope to be saved by living a good life. They seek to obey the commandments, participate in the sacraments, go to church, do penance and give alms, recite prayers and so on, in the hope of receiving salvation.
In its official writings, the Roman Catholic church teaches that faith is important; but it also insists on the necessity of good works to receive eternal life. Here is what I read from the Council of Trent on Justification:
Canon 12. If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is this confidence alone that justifies us, let him be anathema.
Canon 24. If anyone says that the justice (righteousness) received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works but that those works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not the cause of the increase, let him be anathema.
Canon 30. If anyone says that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out to every repentant sinner, that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged either in this world or in purgatory before the gates of heaven can be opened, let him be anathema.
Canon 32. If anyone says that the good works of the one justified are in such manner the gifts of God that they are not also the good merits of him justified; or that the one justified by the good works that he performs by the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ (of whom one is a living member), the justified does not truly merit an increase of grace, and eternal life, provided that one dies in the state of grace, the attainment of this eternal life, as well as an increase in glory, let him be anathema.
Official Roman Catholic teaching would not allow the sinner to rely by faith on the mercy of God or to believe that his sins are forgiven through faith based on the merits of Christ's finished work of redemption alone. Something more is required. You must keep yourself saved by your own good works. You must merit grace and eternal life by your good works. You must pay the debt of sins by your purgatorial sufferings. That is the Roman Catholic "version" of salvation through faith, but it's really salvation through faith (their version of faith) AND works.
In its official writings, the Roman Catholic church teaches that faith is important; but it also insists on the necessity of good works to receive eternal life. Here is what I read from the Council of Trent on Justification:
Canon 12. If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is this confidence alone that justifies us, let him be anathema.
Canon 24. If anyone says that the justice (righteousness) received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works but that those works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not the cause of the increase, let him be anathema.
Canon 30. If anyone says that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out to every repentant sinner, that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged either in this world or in purgatory before the gates of heaven can be opened, let him be anathema.
Canon 32. If anyone says that the good works of the one justified are in such manner the gifts of God that they are not also the good merits of him justified; or that the one justified by the good works that he performs by the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ (of whom one is a living member), the justified does not truly merit an increase of grace, and eternal life, provided that one dies in the state of grace, the attainment of this eternal life, as well as an increase in glory, let him be anathema.
Official Roman Catholic teaching would not allow the sinner to rely by faith on the mercy of God or to believe that his sins are forgiven through faith based on the merits of Christ's finished work of redemption alone. Something more is required. You must keep yourself saved by your own good works. You must merit grace and eternal life by your good works. You must pay the debt of sins by your purgatorial sufferings. That is the Roman Catholic "version" of salvation through faith, but it's really salvation through faith (their version of faith) AND works.
E
Thank you, I had to look these up, thanks for this..
In titus 3, Saves is aorist tense
In eph 2: 8 saved is perfect tense as you said, amen,
1 tim 1: 9 saved is again aorist tense.
in all cases. It is a completed action, Which happened at some point in the past. Continues in the present, and will continue forever. Amen and amen.
In titus 3, Saves is aorist tense
In eph 2: 8 saved is perfect tense as you said, amen,
1 tim 1: 9 saved is again aorist tense.
in all cases. It is a completed action, Which happened at some point in the past. Continues in the present, and will continue forever. Amen and amen.
Well...I agree that he was a real man.
But as to someone believing it is a parable for some reason (I'd still like to hear the reason(s) ) and saying that a parable can't have any real impact on your life, I don't agree...Jesus' parables have had an extensive impact on my life. They weren't real people, but they were to explain spiritual realities.
But once again, I believe the story of Job to be based on a real live man.
But as to someone believing it is a parable for some reason (I'd still like to hear the reason(s) ) and saying that a parable can't have any real impact on your life, I don't agree...Jesus' parables have had an extensive impact on my life. They weren't real people, but they were to explain spiritual realities.
But once again, I believe the story of Job to be based on a real live man.
E
I would not fight or condemn a person who thinks it was a parable. I agree with you hear.
but to say they woudl have the same impact? Jesus spoke parables on general terms. Job was a man who lost everything he had. Had it all taken away from hi, had his friends try to convince him to curse God, so on and so forth, I can not see how a parable of this can have near the same inpact as him being a real person. Many people have used Job the MAN to get through some prety horrible stuff in their lives, if job was just a parable. It would neer hae helped them.
Same with paul and all his sufferings, imagine if those were just parables. Would it have near the effect on your life as his sufferings did?
So as it turns out, I can't go today. I won't bore you with the gory details, but it turns out to have been good that I lingered and dragged my feet instead of heading out for the 3 hour drive.
So I can stay here and cause you all grief again today. One more day of vacation, rest and best of all, getting to talk with you all!
So I can stay here and cause you all grief again today. One more day of vacation, rest and best of all, getting to talk with you all!
I'm reading through the thread again and I just got to laughing so hard at us all. I just started hearing a bunch of bleating sheep and saw them running around and bumping into each other. It's just the picture that came into my head.
I think ones beliefs are important but the reason why I think this is because if I can help anyone to either not go through some of the anguish I went through or at least help them a little through it, I really want to. And my anguishes came through...some things I thought were true that weren't.
I think ones beliefs are important but the reason why I think this is because if I can help anyone to either not go through some of the anguish I went through or at least help them a little through it, I really want to. And my anguishes came through...some things I thought were true that weren't.
R
No, neither tense indicates that the action will continue forever.
"the aorist simply states the fact that an action has happened. It gives no information on how long it took, or whether the results are still in effect.
"The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. Sample translation: "I have believed."
Notice that the perfect tense carries two ideas: (1) completed action and (2) continuing results. The action was completed at some time in the past, and the results continue up to the present."
From: https://www.ezraproject.com/greek-tenses-explained/
"the aorist simply states the fact that an action has happened. It gives no information on how long it took, or whether the results are still in effect.
"The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. Sample translation: "I have believed."
Notice that the perfect tense carries two ideas: (1) completed action and (2) continuing results. The action was completed at some time in the past, and the results continue up to the present."
From: https://www.ezraproject.com/greek-tenses-explained/
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