Once Saved, Always Saved ... OR Can you Lose your Salvation?
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well, this is what you said:
and now you say this:
you are not saying what I am saying so you saying that what I say is right is not right if we look at what you say which backs up your first post, beating around the bush but still, is actually what you were saying when I said what I said because of what you said
and now you say this:
you are not saying what I am saying so you saying that what I say is right is not right if we look at what you say which backs up your first post, beating around the bush but still, is actually what you were saying when I said what I said because of what you said
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(Before you get all indignity with what I'm about to say, realize I AM agreeing with you, just making this easier on the English language side of life.)
Saved -- present perfect. Means was saved, being saved, will be saved.
To the Lord this is a complete thing because he is outside of time and space. To us it is a process, because we're in time and space.
Makes it easier, no?
Saved -- present perfect. Means was saved, being saved, will be saved.
To the Lord this is a complete thing because he is outside of time and space. To us it is a process, because we're in time and space.
Makes it easier, no?
D
Not really. Catholics add something to the equation -- giving to the Church. My dad is a good Catholic. He went to church every Sunday, went to confession, did penance, had communion, tithed 10%, and volunteered to make meals for shut ins once a week. Even after all that, and even in the way the RCC teaches, he did not do enough to go to heaven. He will have to do time in purgatory. And the only way out is for his family to pray enough ritualistic prayers to earn his way out.
This is all hogwash of course. Dad missed the boat on the one and only thing -- he never trusted the God of the Bible. He did all he did for selfish reasons, thus was any of it not-sin?
This is all hogwash of course. Dad missed the boat on the one and only thing -- he never trusted the God of the Bible. He did all he did for selfish reasons, thus was any of it not-sin?
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You're in the middle of the Atlantic ocean faced down for several hours... (same scenario the first time I wrote that.)
Now your feet are back on dry land. What's the first thing you do? Start swimming back to the middle of the Atlantic or seek out that Savior and enjoy him forever?
Personally? Dead woman talking here. I know I was dead and he brought me to life. I'm sharing what he gave me to whomever I can. GREAT deal!!!
Now your feet are back on dry land. What's the first thing you do? Start swimming back to the middle of the Atlantic or seek out that Savior and enjoy him forever?
Personally? Dead woman talking here. I know I was dead and he brought me to life. I'm sharing what he gave me to whomever I can. GREAT deal!!!
JESUS had not come yet to be the LAMB of GOD that took away the sin of the world so then was the SPIRIT In those brethren or was the SPIRIT upon them,I ask because If the SPIRIT Is In a person why would the SPIRIT depart,being Incorruptible?I’m saying that the Issue concerning salvation now Is faith and GOD’s WORD Is TRUE when HE says whosoever believes will have Eternal Life and HIS WORD Is not whosoever tries to keep my WORD I might eventually give them Eternal Life.
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You have really got to drop the reading from "theologians." Clearly you're reading "theologians" that haven't studied the Bible any more than you have, because they're teaching you a huge wagon of cow patties!
If Job wasn't real, then all that does is give you an excuse to say the whole Bible isn't real. (BTW, same error my dad made.)
If Job wasn't real, then all that does is give you an excuse to say the whole Bible isn't real. (BTW, same error my dad made.)
Hebrews 3:8 - Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness, 9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. 10 Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.' *Not descriptive of genuine believers. There is no loss of salvation here. Only a failure to receive it. Verses 18-19 - And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. That explains the hardened heart. It took them in the opposite direction of God. Heard the truth for a time, but then hardened heart and departing from God became their final answer. Jude 1:5 - The Lord delivered His people (the Israelites) out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.
Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become [past tense Greek. verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we have read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end. The wording is not - "and you will be saved (future indicative) if you (future indicative) persevere." It is rather - "you have been, and now are, really saved, (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast to Christ."
The point is that not all of these Hebrews have become partakers in their promised Messiah and of course, the only ones in the end who will be identified as truly born again Hebrews who have partaken in Messiah, will have been those who have held fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end. Those faltering Hebrews who depart from God begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty. But later? Future perseverance is proof of genuine conversion.
Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become [past tense Greek. verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we have read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end. The wording is not - "and you will be saved (future indicative) if you (future indicative) persevere." It is rather - "you have been, and now are, really saved, (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast to Christ."
The point is that not all of these Hebrews have become partakers in their promised Messiah and of course, the only ones in the end who will be identified as truly born again Hebrews who have partaken in Messiah, will have been those who have held fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end. Those faltering Hebrews who depart from God begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty. But later? Future perseverance is proof of genuine conversion.
I missed that post that said Job was not a real person but a parable, until lynn posted it again.
I don't have a problem with it being thought a parable as opposed to a real life person...but does it matter?
If I think it was a real life person and you think it is a parable, does this have any major ramifications?
By the way, I'm still here because I can't leave until I hear the other 3 theories of why Jesus had to die. I'm going to be so late, but I cannot leave until I hear them. I even tried to google this so I could go but I didn't find anything on it.
I don't have a problem with it being thought a parable as opposed to a real life person...but does it matter?
If I think it was a real life person and you think it is a parable, does this have any major ramifications?
By the way, I'm still here because I can't leave until I hear the other 3 theories of why Jesus had to die. I'm going to be so late, but I cannot leave until I hear them. I even tried to google this so I could go but I didn't find anything on it.
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How's that "ability to be good people" working for you? Stunned just told you that even having angry thoughts is sin. You have an 18 month old daughter who cries a lot. How's your "ability to be good people" working for you when she got on your last nerve? Think about this one. She is the love of your life! You can't possibly love anyone more than you love her, and yet your anger got the best of you. If this is true, (and it is true, or you go into the Guinness Book of Records as the only mother who never got angry with her baby), then how able are you for people you don't even like?
After all, here is the standard for goodness:
Mark 12:[FONT="]30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
You talk a good game, but reality hits the road and game falls apart.[/FONT]
After all, here is the standard for goodness:
Mark 12:[FONT="]30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
You talk a good game, but reality hits the road and game falls apart.[/FONT]