Mother Of God?

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Let me ask you something. Where did Scripture come from? and Who decided which books were in the Bible?
The better question would be to ask, which books of the Bible have always been considered inspired, and which books of the Bible were NOT considered inspired until the council of Trent in the sixteenth century. You could also ask who changed their status, and why, though we already know the answers Roman Catholics give.
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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Most of the books are of middle east origin, and Rome. Don't see anything else in it besides other nations. correct me if I am wrong.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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Oh look at what my word of the day says:

For, There is one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity—the man Christ Jesus.
1 Timothy 2:5

Looks like that throws Mary out the window mediating for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. :rolleyes:
 

dallasb78

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2015
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Some examples of false Catholic practices, kiss the rings of the leaders of that church, calling the leaders father Billy or bob or joe. Asking the cardinal or pope or who ever to forgive their sins.

having statues of Mary and praying to Mary as if she is a intercesssor between People and Jesus.

they look act and walk just as the Pharisees did back in day, they like to been seen and praised, they like the front seats.

all satan did is switch out one religion for another, the show is the same no difference they are modern day Pharisees.
I have never seen a ring kissed in the church by anyone. Maybe the pope?

"Call no man Father" i think that's what your referring to here. This verse is simply stating that we shouldn't honour men more than God. Our Lord is using hyperbole here as well. If he meant this literally then no son or daughter would be allowed to call his/her father "father".

When a priest forgives sins it it not he that forgives them, but God. He(the priest) represents Christ visibly but the real Christ is there invisibly.

Mary is an intercessor between humanity and Christ. Christ is the only intercessor between humanity and God the Father. There were statues in the Temple of God built by Solomon.

I dont' know how many priests you have met but the great majority of them that I have come across are quite humble. More than I can say for some protestant TV preachers.

The Pharisee's problem wasn't a false region so much but that they thought they were saved because of their great knowledge of Scripture.(John 5:39)
 

dallasb78

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2015
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I used to be Catholic. We knelt before statues and said "Hail Mary". That IS worship as defined by The Bible. And it is wrong.
Hail is a word that actually means "hello". it can't be worship see Luke 1:28
 

dallasb78

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2015
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the pillar and foundation of truth is explained if we would just continue reading little bit...
Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great:
He appeared in the flesh,
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory.

(1 Timothy 3:14-16)​

God's household: Jesus Christ, eternal, incarnate, ascended, returning.
for the church is nothing at all unless it is found in Him: Jesus of Nazareth is the only foundation, and no other foundation may be laid. not the RCC. not a pulpit. not any human device, but Christ Himself.

don't you papist types know what 'the church' is, beyond the naive description of human congregations and institution?? i was under the impression that there was a rich history of theological understanding among the people of God...
There is nothing in these verses which contradicts Catholic teaching. What i read says the the Church is the foundation of truth. It then goes on to give praise to God.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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Who are you or I to judge the the writings of the early church fathers, or the catholic church, or the Apocrypha? they had access to the same books of the bible as we have.

Divine inspiration: Meaning that that inspired(breathed) the writers of the Bible to write books that contained the Truth(s) of God.

inerrancy: the Bible is without error.

infallibility: the Bible is incapable of being wrong
Huh!
You have answered your own question!
The very fact that we all have access to the SAME Scripture means that is absolutely possible, and proper, to not only question one own beliefs, but the beliefs of others.

The Church Fathers AND the RCC, and anyone else are fallible beings, whose beliefs and writings are subject to scrutiny with the Word of God standing as the ultimate standard!
 

dallasb78

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2015
125
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The better question would be to ask, which books of the Bible have always been considered inspired, and which books of the Bible were NOT considered inspired until the council of Trent in the sixteenth century. You could also ask who changed their status, and why, though we already know the answers Roman Catholics give.
There are no books of the Bible which were ALWAYS considered inspired. There was always a divinely appointed authority deciding that. For both the old and new testaments. And God preserves that authority. (Mt. 16:18-19)
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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There are no books of the Bible which were ALWAYS considered inspired. There was always a divinely appointed authority deciding that. For both the old and new testaments. And God preserves that authority. (Mt. 16:18-19)
I think you need to get out more!
Clearly the only information you have regarding this comes exclusively from the RCC....

Effectively the canon of the New Testament was closed within decades of the end of the Apostolic era.
Later Church councils just endorsed a fait accompli...
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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There are no books of the Bible which were ALWAYS considered inspired. There was always a divinely appointed authority deciding that. For both the old and new testaments. And God preserves that authority. (Mt. 16:18-19)
.
Does the bible state who this divine authority is? I'm sure that there is such an authority, and that God does preserve the authority but a problem for me is how is it known conclusively who this divine appointed authority are. I consider all 66 books of the bible to be spiritually inspired and completely accurate and trustworthy. No, I'm not part of the divine authority just only stating what is evident to myself.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,532
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There are no books of the Bible which were ALWAYS considered inspired. There was always a divinely appointed authority deciding that. For both the old and new testaments. And God preserves that authority. (Mt. 16:18-19)
Please tell us which Scriptures were not always considered inspired, aside from the apocrypha, which was NOT accepted as Scripture or inspired, even though it was sometimes included in the Bible.

2 Timothy 3:1 says that “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” This verse tells us that God inspired all Scripture and that it is profitable to us. The apocrypha was not considered inspired, because it does not align with Scripture. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter 1:21
 

dallasb78

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2015
125
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Huh!
You have answered your own question!
The very fact that we all have access to the SAME Scripture means that is absolutely possible, and proper, to not only question one own beliefs, but the beliefs of others.

The Church Fathers AND the RCC, and anyone else are fallible beings, whose beliefs and writings are subject to scrutiny with the Word of God standing as the ultimate standard!
You are right in that is is proper to use the Bible to question you own and others beliefs. But not insomuch as to seek to overrule the Church started by Our Lord. Which He said would be guided to ALL Truth(John 16:12-13).

Members of the catholic church are indeed fallible just as you or I are. The only thing that makes the Catholic Church different is its magisterium is guided by the Holy Spirit when ruling on doctrinal matters. It can't be in error.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
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You are right in that is is proper to use the Bible to question you own and others beliefs. But not insomuch as to seek to overrule the Church started by Our Lord. Which He said would be guided to ALL Truth(John 16:12-13).

Members of the catholic church are indeed fallible just as you or I are. The only thing that makes the Catholic Church different is its magisterium is guided by the Holy Spirit when ruling on doctrinal matters. It can't be in error.
Nonsense!
Says who?
The RCC....
LOL
 
Nov 12, 2015
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While the Bible is without error, you will not find a verse that says it is the ONLY source of doctrinal Truth.
So men can be the source of doctrinal truth even though it cant be found in the bible?
 

dallasb78

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2015
125
0
16
I think you need to get out more!
Clearly the only information you have regarding this comes exclusively from the RCC....

Effectively the canon of the New Testament was closed within decades of the end of the Apostolic era.
Later Church councils just endorsed a fait accompli...
Exactly, a Church council. An authoritative one. A Catholic one. Because only the Catholic church has that authority.
 

dallasb78

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2015
125
0
16
Please tell us which Scriptures were not always considered inspired, aside from the apocrypha, which was NOT accepted as Scripture or inspired, even though it was sometimes included in the Bible.

2 Timothy 3:1 says that “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” This verse tells us that God inspired all Scripture and that it is profitable to us. The apocrypha was not considered inspired, because it does not align with Scripture. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter 1:21
No new testament books were officially considered inspired until the Council of Trent in 393. Before the Church ruled on this nobody new quite which books should be read in church(other than the Old Testament).
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
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Exactly, a Church council. An authoritative one. A Catholic one. Because only the Catholic church has that authority.
Complete garbage!

The RCC is composed of people, fallible people!
The so-called magisterium of the RCC is nothing more than a bunch of blokes (no girls) with man-made titles like Bishop and Pope who make decisions for the RCC.
You claim that they are infallible because of the Holy Spirit is just sophistry!
The SAME Holy Spirit indwells me and I KNOW that I am NOT infallible.

The fiction that the RCC has any kind of authority not available to any other Christian is simply ludicrous....
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,532
26,489
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No new testament books were officially considered inspired until the Council of Trent in 393. Before the Church ruled on this nobody new quite which books should be read in church(other than the Old Testament).
The New Testament has always been considered inspired. I am not surprised it took your beloved institution so long to agree with the rest of us. To help you catch up, you may consider this:

The Christian church has always considered the New Testament documents to be inspired. Though in the early church there were some debates on which New Testament books to include in the Bible, God worked through the Christian church to recognize those inspired works. Therefore we now have 27 inspired books for the New Testament.

In 1 Cor. 14:37 Paul said, "If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment." In 2 Pet. 3:16, Peter said, "as also in all [Paul's] letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction." Also, Jesus said in John 14:26, "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you." This means that the Lord has commissioned the apostles to accurately record what Jesus had said because the Holy Spirit would be working in them.

So, we can see that Jesus promised direction from the Holy Spirit, that Paul considered what he wrote to be the commands of God, and that Peter recognized Paul's writings as Scripture. https://carm.org/bible-inspired
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
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No new testament books were officially considered inspired until the Council of Trent in 393. Before the Church ruled on this nobody new quite which books should be read in church(other than the Old Testament).
And the RCC did not even exist at this time......

The RCC cannot be regarded as a separate entity until the Great Schism (1054) when centuries of bullying by the Roman Patriarch culminated in the split with the eastern churches that later called themselves the Orthodox church.

The whole fiction of Apostolic succession, of Peter being the first Pope, all fiction, worthy of a Dan Brown novel, but not tenable as factual church history.
The Council of Trent had NOTHING to do with the RCC - it didn't exist!