Healing through the Son

Depleted · Apr 8, 2018

Ah. Okay, but kind of got piggybacked because I was asking about the ones who weren't healed, to which Ben did/didn't answer (he said stuff, he just didn't answer), and you respond to that answer from him.

Sorry. Was holding in the whole conversation, and you took off on a part. I'm not saying that as if it's a bad thing, just kind of get stuck when we're talking whole or parts.

stonesoffire · Apr 8, 2018

PennEd said:

Lancelot said:

No. It's not at all clear. Whether it is Jesus, the disciples, Paul, you, me, or a Christian Indian guy in a jungle somewhere, THE primary purpose of the healing is to validate WHO Jesus is, and WHAT Jesus has done for us. Which is to die to pay our debt we owe for sin, so we can be reconciled to the Father.

You can't even use the example, like I think it was Cee used, when Jesus healed and said don't tell anybody.

Cause guess what? WE HAVE ALL BEEN HEARING ABOUT IT FOR 2000 YRS!!!

That man was healed to validate to him, others that knew him, and EVERYONE that reads or hears about him, that Jesus Christ died for their sons and rose again on the 3rd day! THAT, was the reason he was healed.

None who believe physical healing is a part of the atonement, have been able, or honest enough to answer why THEY have no faith to heal others. I have given specific people, with specific maladies, and NONE have dared pray for them, in this open forum, to heal them. Only wishy washy reasons why it doesn't work that way.

You weren't asking for prayer PennEd. You were demanding that we heal them.

Depleted · Apr 8, 2018

Lancelot said:

Didymous said:

I see the gospel as "Look! Look! See God? Isn't he wonderful to behold."

You see the gospel as, "Yeah, but what can he do for me?"

stonesoffire · Apr 8, 2018

Demonic powers, and principalities reside in the second heaven. This includes lying spirits. Faith is to believe God and what He says. No doubt.

Do we cast down these lying imaginations that are against truth found in His Word, but also spoken to us in our inner man? Or do we give our ear to these things?

I believe this to be a failure on the part of many Christians when truth goes beyond being just saved to enter heaven on our passing.

Ive had to war and still do.

Depleted · Apr 8, 2018

joaniemarie said:

And this is why I'm disrespectful. You lump heretical "teachers" in a big ball of simplistic, and then ignore people tell you why it's not simplistic. It's not even true. Even you admit it's not simplistic, but you'll get back to pretending it is.

Then you do it again and again and feel "self-abused" when we're calling you on your lack of sound judgement or any understanding whatsoever.

I really do get you just don't want to understand anything but that which you think is useful to you. After all. That's exactly where we all were before The Light came. Same darkness. However, I am going to, with the best of my abilities, make sure none of the newly regenerated fall for this garbage.

You ignored it, but you also read Angela's story. Same thing with Blain. Same thing with me. You ignored it, but here is the main point -- we all suffered for years, or knew people who suffered, (some to death), because of this LIE of a gospel.

So get this. We're not letting it happen to others, even if you feel like the Queen of the Martyred for your insistence on believing this LIE!

My approach works. It's showing people how shallow your fake gospel is.

(And you didn't answer because you don't have one. No one does, but at least most of us understand, it's God's will, not Man's faith that brings about healing.)

joaniemarie · Apr 8, 2018

stonesoffire said:

Good verse and reminder about casting down imaginations and every thought that raises itself up against the knowledge of God. I agree., we have to do that every day because we still have the presence of the flesh... but the power of sin has been defeated for us in Christ. We have to walk in the spirit (our new creation) directed by the Holy Spirit. The flesh can't do this kind of faith living. The flesh needs to be "mastered" and can only be mastered by walking in the new creation in Christ.

The strong holds are that old way we used to think before we were born again. Now we are to think differently by the renewing of our minds. Not renewing of the old flesh but walking in the totally new man made IN Christ.

2 Cor.10:3-5

[SUP] 3 [/SUP]For though we walk (live) in the flesh, we are not carrying on our warfare according to the flesh and using mere human weapons.
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]For the weapons of our warfare are not physical [weapons of flesh and blood], but they are mighty before God for the overthrow and destruction of strongholds,
[SUP]
5 [/SUP][Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One),

Depleted · Apr 8, 2018

joaniemarie said:

BTW, as far as willingness to hear goes? Have you ever noticed you're the one never willing to hear? I remember you're last user name. First time we ever met, "LadyLynn," you surely tried to teach me how wrong I am. Very hard to be wrong, when you didn't yet know what I believed. Same thing you did/do to every single person who ever dared not agree with you exactly.

In the course of the last few months I've watched people who have tried to reason with you, talk with you, love you, get slapped down the second you knew you could not convert them to your idols.

You're like a used car salesmen, the second you know you can't sell it, you drop the person and on to the next person. The only difference I see now is there aren't that many new people coming to hear your sales pitch.

joaniemarie · Apr 8, 2018

joaniemarie said:

Part of growing up and maturing is being able to deal with those who disagree with us. Not all Christians will believe the same as we do on all of what some call the "non essentials" of the Christian faith . What does that do to us? Does it make us lose our faith? If it does than we didn't have much faith to begin with. What it should so is cause us to grow up more and more to be like Jesus on the path of faith He has put each one of us on individually. Not cry about being disagreed with.

It should not threaten a believer if other Christians believe differently than they do. We each are called to have faith in Jesus and what the Bible says regardless of what others may say. Regardless of the anger and misunderstanding that people have because of it. It always comes down to being who God called us to be. If we are not up for that kind of discussion than avoid the thread they start.

I'd say this is a good place to learn how to co exist with other brothers and sisters in the family of Jesus. It's up to each one of us to follow what the Bible says on these matters of faith.

Gal.5:13-26
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For you, brethren, were [indeed] called to freedom; only [do not let your] freedom be an incentive to your flesh and an opportunity or excuse [for [SUP][d][/SUP]selfishness], but through love you should serve one another.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]For the whole Law [concerning human relationships] is [SUP][e][/SUP]complied with in the one precept, You shall love your neighbor as [you do] yourself.
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]But if you bite and devour one another [in partisan strife], be careful that you [and your whole fellowship] are not consumed by one another.
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]But I say, walk and live [habitually] in the [Holy] Spirit [responsive to and controlled and guided by the Spirit]; then you will certainly not gratify the cravings and desires of the flesh (of human nature without God).
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]For the desires of the flesh are opposed to the [Holy] Spirit, and the [desires of the] Spirit are opposed to the flesh (godless human nature); for these are antagonistic to each other [continually withstanding and in conflict with each other], so that you are not free but are prevented from doing what you desire to do.
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]But if you are guided (led) by the [Holy] Spirit, you are not subject to the Law.
[SUP]
19 [/SUP]Now the doings (practices) of the flesh are clear (obvious): they are immorality, impurity, indecency,
[SUP]
20 [/SUP]Idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger (ill temper), selfishness, divisions (dissensions), party spirit (factions, sects with peculiar opinions, heresies),
[SUP]
21 [/SUP]Envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]
22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness,
[SUP]
23 [/SUP]Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [[SUP][f][/SUP]that can bring a charge].
[SUP]
24 [/SUP]And those who belong to Christ Jesus (the Messiah) have crucified the flesh (the godless human nature) with its passions and appetites and desires.
[SUP]
25 [/SUP]If we live by the [Holy] Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. [If by the Holy Spirit [SUP][g][/SUP]we have our life in God, let us go forward [SUP][h][/SUP]walking in line, our conduct controlled by the Spirit.]
[SUP]
26 [/SUP]Let us not become vainglorious and self-conceited, competitive and challenging and provoking andirritating to one another, envying and being jealous of one another.

reposted for you depleted.

joaniemarie · Apr 8, 2018

Christians who are walking in the flesh can't help but try to insult and demean other Christians about whether God is a good Father that wants to heal His children. Jesus said that healing is the children's bread." I believe that because the Bible says it. Not because I've always experienced it in my 59yrs on earth.

Healing is a "non-essential" doctrine and yet some would rip apart others in the body of Christ and slander them non-stop that have a different view than what they or their group does on it.

How would tares behave towards others in the body of Christ? Or they could be wheat too but are just baby Christians just like 1 Peter 2:1-2 says. Our behavior determines our true spiritual age - not how many times we read the bible, not how long we have been a Christian, not if we pray in tongues for 10 hours a day, not if we pastor a church for 50 years, not if we can read the Bible in Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, Chinese, Russian or any other language or all of them at once.

These are all good things but not indicative of spiritual age in Christ. Behavior towards others is the standard that Peter and Paul talked about for determining spiritual age in Christ.

If you don't agree with people you come in contact with in the Christian community.. is throwing up your insults and anger on them the best way to go? No., I don't believe we Christians even have that option. Yet in the flesh., some Christians can and will take that option until they learn better.

Depleted · Apr 8, 2018

Didymous said:

PennEd said:

Short answer -- it's a forum coding fluke.

Long Answer -- Did you see what just happened here when I hit "Reply with Quote?" Who said that? You or Ed?

Yeah, that's a coding goof. (Possibly started by someone trying to shorten a post and playing around the the [ Quote ] thing.

It's fixable when it's noticed. I could fix this by taking out this part --

Didymous said:

joaniemarie · Apr 8, 2018

There are 2 different kinds of believers. And we are all capable of being both kinds. The kind that walk after the flesh or the kind that walk after the Spirit. None of us are free of this daily struggle until we die and go to heaven.

Sharing different Christian's books and writings here is also a blessing to me because I never read anything different than what our church gave the high five on. So our family never heard about things outside of our church. We were taught to fear any one and any thing we were not first taught. I see this being done by Christians a lot today. Keeping other's in line by intimidation and threats. This is not the way Jesus taught us to follow after Him. And this is not the way the Holy Spirit teaches us to follow after Jesus.

Here is a Christian writer I appreciate very much., Paul Ellis on this subject;

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these things are opposed one to the other, that ye should not do those things which ye desire. ~ Galatians 5:17 (Darby)

Paul describes the Christian life as a tug of war between the flesh and the spirit. The flesh is that part of us that lives purely by natural experience – what we see, hear and smell, etc. – while our spirit is that part of us that is united with Christ and lives by the word of God.

Did you know it’s possible to be in the Spirit (i.e., saved) yet walk after the flesh? Indeed, this is exactly how many Christians live. They are trusting in God for the forgiveness of their sins, but in most every other respect they live no differently from their unsaved neighbors. When they get sick they queue up in the waiting room and when they get in debt they look for extra work. (I’m not against doctors and hard work!) They may be moral and decent people, but their lives are untouched by the supernatural power of God.

I suspect most Christians walk after the flesh simply because they don’t know any better. They don’t know that Christ’s atonement provided not only for their complete forgiveness, but also for their healing (1 Pe 2:24), deliverance (Mk 16:17), and provision (Ph 4:19, 2 Cor 8:9)). They are not receiving the full benefits of the cross because they don’t know the full benefits of the cross or, if they do, they think they must work to get them. They live like this because their minds have not been renewed. If this sounds like you, here are two good books that will help sort out your thinking and set you free.

“Spirit, Soul and Body” by Andrew Wommack

When you were born again, your spirit – the real you – was instantly made new but your old habits of thinking and your body were essentially unchanged. If you battled with health or emotional issues before you were saved, there’s a good chance you continue to battle with those same issues now that you’re saved. Don’t misunderstand me. There is a huge difference between a sinner and a saint! But until the saint learns to think like a saint, he will continue to think like a sinner and in many ways this is fatal (Rm 8:6).

Paul didn’t challenge the Roman Christians to renew their minds in order to get saved but so that they would see the will of God manifest in their lives – His will for healing, deliverance, and provision. This is a life-long process. At every decision we either choose to walk after flesh (what do our five senses tell us?) or we renew our minds and walk after the spirit (what does God say?).

You can walk by sight or you can walk by faith. Some Christians try to do both! They say they’re trusting God to come through for them but at the same time they’re busting their humps trying to fix things themselves. Perhaps they think they’re mixing faith with works but in reality they’re just walking after the flesh. They may talk differently from their unsaved neighbors, but their walk is exactly the same.

A book which will help you come to grips with these issues is Spirit, Soul and Body by Andrew Wommack. Personally I am not convinced that there is a broad distinction between the spirit and the soul and I object to the implication that only part of you is saved. But I like the way Wommack explains how we work out God’s salvation in our lives.

If I told you that there was a rich treasure hidden in your yard, you would either believe me or reject me, but nothing would actually change until you started digging. Similarly, we will never see the spiritual blessings that God has already given us revealed unless we dig. Whether your need is healing, deliverance, or provision, this book teaches you how to dig.

“Extra Virgin Grace” by Ryan Rufus

Another good book on this subject was published just yesterday. Extra Virgin Grace, by Ryan Rufus, provides a sweeping study of many topics that have long been misunderstood and misrepresented, including the Beatitudes, holiness, eternal security, discipline and one of my all-time favorite subjects, true rest.

In Extra Virgin Grace, Ryan Rufus takes a close look at Galatians 5 and asks “What does it mean to walk by the spirit?” Traditionally “the spirit” has been interpreted as meaning the Holy Spirit. To walk by the spirit thus means doing whatever the Holy Spirit tells you. But if you look at the context of Galatians 4, you will see that Paul was referring to our reborn spirits.

Your spirit is one with Christ and is in constant fellowship with the Holy Spirit. So the choice Paul was describing was whether to walk by the limited sensory experience of the flesh, or the unseen reality of our perfectly sanctified spirits. To live by the spirit means learning to make decisions from our spirit rather than our minds.

Sometimes we just know things that reason cannot explain because they are spiritually discerned. We sense a prompting to pray for someone only to learn later that it was for them a moment of great need. This is how Adam and Eve lived before the Fall – their thinking was spirit-led rather than flesh-based.

If we understood that our spirits are perfect already (see Heb 10:14), and that we lack nothing (1 Co 1:7), we would spend less time teaching godly character and more time renewing our minds to live by the spirit. Instead of preaching on faith and sanctification, we would seek to reveal our true identity in Christ. As Ryan says, “The church preaches too much about who we aren’t.” Knowing who you now are and Who lives in you is the key to Christian living.

Depleted · Apr 8, 2018

stonesoffire said:

Okay. If that's the difference.

Would you be kind enough to pray for my father? I really would love to see him healed. He's Dad to me. So, would you be kind enough to pray for healing for Dad?

Yes? (You're really a nice lady, so I know you would say yes to this. Hope you don't mind me going for that assumption.)

Good. Dad is entering Stage Three of Alzheimer. And since the only thing left for him is healing or death, I'd love the healing so he will come to the Lord.

I do not have enough faith for his healing anymore. (45 years of praying he'd come to the Lord and would be healed of other serious health conditions has stopped me from having enough faith to believe the Lord on this one anymore.) Surely you do, right?

No sarcasm at all in that. I ask this friend to friend. And you do have faith the Lord will heal.

(Personally, I think Ed was one of the least demanding people on this site. Might actually beat you out on undemanding, and you're very good at not being demanding.)

BenFTW · Apr 8, 2018

Depleted said:

God's nature is to heal, so when you get God you get healing. What you get out of God is what you believe about Him, more often than not. So it isn't "what a person can get out of God" but understanding who He is, and then receiving that which He freely offers.

As for your passive-aggressive accusation, that you can't let go of, if you continue down this path I'm going to have to put you back on ignore. Discuss the topic, stop using ad hominem attacks.

It isn't your place or job to point out the supposed faults of others (when in fact you are horribly mistaken). I understand correction, and helping fellow brethren to repent, with a trusted friend (or leader in the Church), but that isn't your angle. You have a pessimistic view of things, and others, I get that. Why? Well, its not my job to put you on blast before everyone and defame you. Please stop with the character assassinations.

Depleted · Apr 8, 2018

stonesoffire said:

Not getting this. Truly not getting this.

First, no idea what a second heaven is, so you lost me completely there.

Second, are you suggesting, (and, again, not getting this so I could be wrong), that God is unable to heal because of demonic powers and principalities? Even though we're still in the battle because we're in the restrictions time gives us, didn't God win that war at the cross? Isn't he our crusader, not us?

IF that's what you are saying, can you show me that biblically? And if I got it wrong, want to explain it in other words, so maybe I can get it?

Depleted · Apr 8, 2018

joaniemarie said:

No. You're not reposting that for me. You're flicking another pamphlet under my windshield wiper, in lieu of talking. Passive-aggressiving a previous lecture to nobodies in your martyrdom mentality.

You don't talk to people. You lecture and then repeatedly pass out the same syllabus as if that will answer any questions.

Who was that posted to the first time? No one. And no one it remains.

Depleted · Apr 8, 2018

joaniemarie said:

Christians who are walking in the flesh can't help but try to insult and demean other Christians about whether God is a good Father that wants to heal His children. Jesus said that healing is the children's bread." I believe that because the Bible says it. Not because I've always experienced it in my 59yrs on earth.

Healing is a "non-essential" doctrine and yet some would rip apart others in the body of Christ and slander them non-stop that have a different view than what they or their group does on it.

How would tares behave towards others in the body of Christ? Or they could be wheat too but are just baby Christians just like 1 Peter 2:1-2 says. Our behavior determines our true spiritual age - not how many times we read the bible, not how long we have been a Christian, not if we pray in tongues for 10 hours a day, not if we pastor a church for 50 years, not if we can read the Bible in Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, Chinese, Russian or any other language or all of them at once.

These are all good things but not indicative of spiritual age in Christ. Behavior towards others is the standard that Peter and Paul talked about for determining spiritual age in Christ.

If you don't agree with people you come in contact with in the Christian community.. is throwing up your insults and anger on them the best way to go? No., I don't believe we Christians even have that option. Yet in the flesh., some Christians can and will take that option until they learn better.

More lecturing to no one in particular. More martyrdom.

Lewiz · Apr 8, 2018

Depleted said:

More like spiritual suicide.

joaniemarie · Apr 9, 2018

BenFTW said:

Ben, very much agree with what you said here on all counts of your post. What we believe about God is how we will proceed in our faith. If we believe Him to be a harsh unkind Father that is how we will approach Him and others for that matter.

There is a direct correlation and effect when a person realizes and believes God loves them. There is a security and a rest that comes. It is then we can love Him back and have the ability to love others. We love Him because He first loved us. Herein is love... not that we loved God but that He loves us. 1 John 4:10 It is God who does the loving first. He shows us what this love and grace is all about.

I believe the love of God gets a bad rap in the church today. Many believers I've met get all worried when we talk about the love and grace of God and rush back to the law. Instead of preaching and sharing about how the Holy Spirit witnesses to our spirit about Jesus and the grace and truth He brought., the church is often times talking and studying the law and what we are supposed to be doing and not what God has done in and through His son on our behalf.

As you said here., when we are depending on the finished work of Christ and responding to that love by freely receiving from Him each day. That is a very good thing and what God wants us to do. It's all about Jesus. Knowing we are loved and cared for gives security and confidence in our faith as beloved sons. Something the world., the flesh and the devil never want us to be confident in.

It's not about what we can do for God it's what God did for us. When we respond to His love we have a natural desire to love Him back and want to serve Him. It's natural to our new man in Christ. The new creation that responds to God. If a man loves his wife he isn't feeling forced to serve her and she feels the same way. This is a joyful relationship. And so much the more with God. Those that can't fathom this kind of love and instead find fault with it have not known or walked it out IMO.

When we know we are loved we don't fear anything from God. We know He is for us and not against us. 1 John 4:8

[SUP]18 [/SUP]There is no fear in love [dread does not exist], but full-grown (complete, perfect) love [SUP][a][/SUP]turns fear out of doors and expels every trace of terror! For fear [SUP][b][/SUP]brings with it the thought of punishment, and [so] he who is afraid has not reached the full maturity of love [is not yet grown into love’s complete perfection]

1 John 4:7-13
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Beloved, let us love one another, for love is (springs) from God; and he who loves [his fellowmen] is begotten (born) of God and is coming [progressively] to know and understand God [to perceive and recognize and get a better and clearer knowledge of Him].
[SUP]
8 [/SUP]He who does not love has not become acquainted with God [does not and never did know Him], for God is love.
[SUP]
9 [/SUP]In this the love of God was made manifest (displayed) where we are concerned: in that God sent His Son, the only begotten or [SUP][f][/SUP]unique [Son], into the world so that we might live through Him.
[SUP]
10 [/SUP]In this is love: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation (the atoning sacrifice) for our sins.
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]Beloved, if God loved us so [very much], we also ought to love one another.
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]No man has at any time [yet] seen God. But if we love one another, God abides (lives and remains) in us and His love (that love which is essentially His) is brought to completion (to its full maturity, runs its full course, is perfected) in us!
[SUP]
13 [/SUP]By this we come to know (perceive, recognize, and understand) that we abide (live and remain) in Him and He in us: because He has given (imparted) to us of His [Holy] Spirit.

Lancelot · Apr 9, 2018

PennEd said:

Lancelot said:

The man wasn't healed by Paul. That's what you don't get. The Bible says he had faith to be healed. He wasn't healed because some apostle was authenticating their message. He was healed because Paul perceived that he had faith to be healed and told him how to release his faith and activate his healing. And again ... faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. His faith for physical healing came from Paul preaching the gospel, ergo Paul's gospel included physical healing.

wolfwint · Apr 9, 2018

stonesoffire said:

Hi Stones what is the Second heaven? Where you got this Information from?
And Why you die not my last post to you?

Healing through the Son

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