Do We Have To Keep The Law?
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That is the lamest excuse yet.
No violation if you respond correctly after breaking the Law?
That's like telling a police officer that after you blew through the stop sign going 60 mph in a 35 mph zone, you responded correctly by slowing down, so there is no violation of the law.
You knew even as you typed, that you were lying. I have been saying since day one here, that obedience does NOT justify us before God in any way.
Another lie from you (big surprise) and one you've been peddling here ad nauseam - that we believe grace is a license to sin.
You take the cake, Ralph. You really do. You act like such an obedient saint, yet you lie so effortlessly I'm convinced you couldn't tell the truth if it smacked you in the head.
You break God's laws every day, just like the rest of us, yet you try to elevate yourself above the commoners with your self-righteous attitude. Then dictate how we are to live, obey, act, and think.
I've said this before and I have no trouble saying it again. You behave like a typical cult leader.
No violation if you respond correctly after breaking the Law?
That's like telling a police officer that after you blew through the stop sign going 60 mph in a 35 mph zone, you responded correctly by slowing down, so there is no violation of the law.
You knew even as you typed, that you were lying. I have been saying since day one here, that obedience does NOT justify us before God in any way.
Another lie from you (big surprise) and one you've been peddling here ad nauseam - that we believe grace is a license to sin.
You take the cake, Ralph. You really do. You act like such an obedient saint, yet you lie so effortlessly I'm convinced you couldn't tell the truth if it smacked you in the head.
You break God's laws every day, just like the rest of us, yet you try to elevate yourself above the commoners with your self-righteous attitude. Then dictate how we are to live, obey, act, and think.
I've said this before and I have no trouble saying it again. You behave like a typical cult leader.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 119:103-105, “How sweet to my taste has Your word been, More than honey to my mouth! From Your orders I get understanding; Therefore I have hated every false way. Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 119:142-145, “Your righteousness is righteousness forever, And Your Torah is truth. Distress and anguish have found me; Your commands are my delight. The righteousness of Your witnesses is forever; Make me understand, that I might live. I have called with all my heart; Answer me, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]! I observe Your Laws.”
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 6:16-17, “Thus said [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], “Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; and find rest for yourselves.” But they said, ‘We do not walk in it.’ “And I raised up watchmen over you, and said, ‘Listen to a voice of the trumpet!’ But they said, ‘We do not listen.”[/FONT]
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 119:142-145, “Your righteousness is righteousness forever, And Your Torah is truth. Distress and anguish have found me; Your commands are my delight. The righteousness of Your witnesses is forever; Make me understand, that I might live. I have called with all my heart; Answer me, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]! I observe Your Laws.”
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 6:16-17, “Thus said [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], “Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; and find rest for yourselves.” But they said, ‘We do not walk in it.’ “And I raised up watchmen over you, and said, ‘Listen to a voice of the trumpet!’ But they said, ‘We do not listen.”[/FONT]
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E
No YOUR NOT LISTENING to GODS WORD
The TEN COMMANDS ARE PART OF THE LAW THROUGH MOSES. which Moses was told by God to tell the children of Isreal to confirm an oath to OBEY EVER WORD OF The LAW. WHich includes the TEN.
all the other laws were added AFTER this oath was required.
Yes, the ten commands, if broken are sin, But your not going to obey the ten by looking to them, that was not the purpose they were given. so why do you want to put people BACK under law?
The TEN COMMANDS ARE PART OF THE LAW THROUGH MOSES. which Moses was told by God to tell the children of Isreal to confirm an oath to OBEY EVER WORD OF The LAW. WHich includes the TEN.
all the other laws were added AFTER this oath was required.
Yes, the ten commands, if broken are sin, But your not going to obey the ten by looking to them, that was not the purpose they were given. so why do you want to put people BACK under law?
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, “Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
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“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]all” is word #G3650 - holos [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]- Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete
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Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”[/FONT]
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 13:14-15, “And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is completely filled, which says, ‘Hearing you shall hear and by no means understand, and seeing you shall see and by no means perceive, for the heart of this people has become thickened, and their ears are hard of hearing, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, lest they should understand with their heart, and turn back, and I heal them.” (Isa 6:9-10)[/FONT]
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Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, “Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
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“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]all” is word #G3650 - holos [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]- Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete
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Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”[/FONT]
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 13:14-15, “And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is completely filled, which says, ‘Hearing you shall hear and by no means understand, and seeing you shall see and by no means perceive, for the heart of this people has become thickened, and their ears are hard of hearing, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, lest they should understand with their heart, and turn back, and I heal them.” (Isa 6:9-10)[/FONT]
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The 10 C's were spoken BY GOD to which He added no more Deut 5v22.
The comm's contained in ordinances/works came through Moses....and are dealt with .
WHO are you hearing...GOD or Moses ? perhaps you are one of those people who ''refused to hear God and only wanted Moses to speak to them ? Ex 20v19; Deut 5v24-27; Moses is dead...GOD lives !!!
The comm's contained in ordinances/works came through Moses....and are dealt with .
WHO are you hearing...GOD or Moses ? perhaps you are one of those people who ''refused to hear God and only wanted Moses to speak to them ? Ex 20v19; Deut 5v24-27; Moses is dead...GOD lives !!!
E
The law of moses, the whole law was given by God. Moses did not make the law up. This excuse the law was given by moses is not true.
why do you keep ignoring pauls words I post. Paul quoted moses, if you go back and read the law Moses spoek of you will see all ten commands were included, as well as other commands. The ten were not seperated.
why do you keep ignoring pauls words I post. Paul quoted moses, if you go back and read the law Moses spoek of you will see all ten commands were included, as well as other commands. The ten were not seperated.
R
No. YOU added that to the argument.
Like I say, YOU added that to the argument, not me.
I know you know that.
We ALL know that.
What I'm saying is you can't get past this milk teaching of the faith.
Every time you hear 'law', or 'works', you instantly can only think in terms of those things as a person trying to justify themselves. You have yet to comprehend that obedience to the commands of God is what the person justified in Christ grows up into.
Until then every mention of things like 'law', or 'obedience', or 'works' instantly evokes the one and only doctrine you know at this point in your Christian life, that a person is not justified by what he does. That's why you can't comprehend that believers uphold the law of Moses-Romans 3:31. You're still drinking the milk knowledge of the faith.
When you say that grace makes it so you can live in your old life willingly and unabashedly, and that you can even go back to unbelief and you are still covered by God's grace in salvation, that is making grace a license to sin. If that's not making grace a license to sin, nothing is. In your doctrine there is no such thing as making grace a license to sin. Think about it.
I don't know how saying Christians have the blood of Christ to cover them when they sin is somehow elevating myself and having a self righteous attitude.
And if telling people they should do as James says and 'do right' by keeping the law 'love your neighbor as yourself' written in scripture (the law of Moses) is dictating to others how to live, obey, act, and think, then I'm guilty as charged.
And you are acting like the very thing you apparently are......a very immature baby in the faith still living on the milk of the word. Time for you and a lot of other Christians to grow up and start actually DOING the word of God that you like to remind the choir over and over and over again is not able to make you righteous before God.
Stop suckling on the milk knowledge of 'righteousness through faith in Christ apart from works' and start eating the meat of the word of how to keep the commandments that EVERYBODY knows can not justify you, but which are, nonetheless, required for the believing saint to perform.
Like I say, YOU added that to the argument, not me.
I know you know that.
We ALL know that.
What I'm saying is you can't get past this milk teaching of the faith.
Every time you hear 'law', or 'works', you instantly can only think in terms of those things as a person trying to justify themselves. You have yet to comprehend that obedience to the commands of God is what the person justified in Christ grows up into.
Until then every mention of things like 'law', or 'obedience', or 'works' instantly evokes the one and only doctrine you know at this point in your Christian life, that a person is not justified by what he does. That's why you can't comprehend that believers uphold the law of Moses-Romans 3:31. You're still drinking the milk knowledge of the faith.
When you say that grace makes it so you can live in your old life willingly and unabashedly, and that you can even go back to unbelief and you are still covered by God's grace in salvation, that is making grace a license to sin. If that's not making grace a license to sin, nothing is. In your doctrine there is no such thing as making grace a license to sin. Think about it.
I don't know how saying Christians have the blood of Christ to cover them when they sin is somehow elevating myself and having a self righteous attitude.
And if telling people they should do as James says and 'do right' by keeping the law 'love your neighbor as yourself' written in scripture (the law of Moses) is dictating to others how to live, obey, act, and think, then I'm guilty as charged.
And you are acting like the very thing you apparently are......a very immature baby in the faith still living on the milk of the word. Time for you and a lot of other Christians to grow up and start actually DOING the word of God that you like to remind the choir over and over and over again is not able to make you righteous before God.
Stop suckling on the milk knowledge of 'righteousness through faith in Christ apart from works' and start eating the meat of the word of how to keep the commandments that EVERYBODY knows can not justify you, but which are, nonetheless, required for the believing saint to perform.
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"by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace." (Ephesians 2:15)
"Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written,“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband.”
"Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman." (Galatians 4:21-31)
Get it, now?
E
Yes it still is in effect.
In this context.
Gal 3:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
As long as their are non believers, the law will still have a purpose.
In this context.
Gal 3:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
As long as their are non believers, the law will still have a purpose.
Really? Okay then - are you claiming you don't break the Law? Because I'm not going to let you have it both ways.
Do you know why we don't get past it? Because that's where it ends!
Jesus did all that was required to not only justify us, but to sanctify us, to keep us saved, and to one day present us faultless before the Father.
You hate the fact that salvation is a gift from beginning to end, don't you? Your pride will not allow you to simply accept what God offers freely - you have to do SOMETHING to earn it, to help God out, to PROVE you deserve salvation, to prove you possess salvation, to keep your salvation.
You take it to a whole other level, Ralph. You are the Grand Inquisitor who judges the fruit of others and pronounces one saved or damned. You are splitting at the seems with self-righteousness, and it's sickening to behold.
Mmm-kay.
"What are the works that God requires?" And Jesus answered them, "The work of God is this, to believe in the One He has sent." (John 6:28-29)
Done and done.
And prove ourselves to God? Or to you?
If you add a single requirement to the gospel of salvation, you negate it as gift, and place yourself under a curse for adding to the word of God. You are a Neo-Judaizer, Ralph. Saying we're saved by grace alone without works, and then trying to drag people back under the Law.
"However, to the one who does not work, but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness." (Romans 4:5)
"If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved." (1 Corinthians 3:14-15)
Try again, Lawyer.
Do you know why we don't get past it? Because that's where it ends!
Jesus did all that was required to not only justify us, but to sanctify us, to keep us saved, and to one day present us faultless before the Father.
You hate the fact that salvation is a gift from beginning to end, don't you? Your pride will not allow you to simply accept what God offers freely - you have to do SOMETHING to earn it, to help God out, to PROVE you deserve salvation, to prove you possess salvation, to keep your salvation.
You take it to a whole other level, Ralph. You are the Grand Inquisitor who judges the fruit of others and pronounces one saved or damned. You are splitting at the seems with self-righteousness, and it's sickening to behold.
Mmm-kay.
"What are the works that God requires?" And Jesus answered them, "The work of God is this, to believe in the One He has sent." (John 6:28-29)
Done and done.
And prove ourselves to God? Or to you?
If you add a single requirement to the gospel of salvation, you negate it as gift, and place yourself under a curse for adding to the word of God. You are a Neo-Judaizer, Ralph. Saying we're saved by grace alone without works, and then trying to drag people back under the Law.
"However, to the one who does not work, but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness." (Romans 4:5)
"If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved." (1 Corinthians 3:14-15)
Try again, Lawyer.
L
Why do people create deep comprehensions out of a verse that is supposed to read just as it is at face value.
has all the revelations been forfilled, the cross is not the only thing Jesus will forefill do you believe that or no.
and forfilling the law doesn't mean it doesn't apply anymore, Jesus words and Gods words do not contradict each other.
the Ten Commandments are not that hard, the law of love very very hard at times, one poster I ask to tell in his own words how to love and he couldn't do it. that told me a lot. can you tell me in your own words how to love a person who murders. talk is cheap the action of the heart is valuable.
has all the revelations been forfilled, the cross is not the only thing Jesus will forefill do you believe that or no.
and forfilling the law doesn't mean it doesn't apply anymore, Jesus words and Gods words do not contradict each other.
the Ten Commandments are not that hard, the law of love very very hard at times, one poster I ask to tell in his own words how to love and he couldn't do it. that told me a lot. can you tell me in your own words how to love a person who murders. talk is cheap the action of the heart is valuable.
E
Yeah it did, His name was Jesus, his title was Christ
not only did he come over 2000 years ago, But when he cones into a persons life (in salvation) the law has completed its mission in that persons life.
there is nothing else the law can do for that person. He now needs to look to the law of Love, and seek after the things of the spirit.
not only did he come over 2000 years ago, But when he cones into a persons life (in salvation) the law has completed its mission in that persons life.
there is nothing else the law can do for that person. He now needs to look to the law of Love, and seek after the things of the spirit.
That is totally incorrect. Christians need to clearly understand what was fulfilled or accomplished at the cross, and what all needs to yet be fulfilled as revealed in the Old Testament [and here "the Law" is applicable to the entire OT (the Hebrew Tanakh)].
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
What was fulfilled at the Cross was the sacrifice of Christ as the ultimate Lamb of God. Which meant that the entire Old Covenant system of temple sacrifices, the Levitical priesthood, the ceremonial observances of the Jews, the feasts and festivals, the new moons, the holy days, and the sabbaths -- was finished.
However there is much more to be "fulfilled" before and after the second coming of Christ. And what Jesus said is that not one jot or tittle of the Old Testament will "pass" or be done away with, until everything written therein is accomplished. The OT revealed BOTH the first and second comings of Christ, and we are a long way from Christ's second coming and the establishment of the New Heavens and the New earth ("till heaven and earth pass").
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
What was fulfilled at the Cross was the sacrifice of Christ as the ultimate Lamb of God. Which meant that the entire Old Covenant system of temple sacrifices, the Levitical priesthood, the ceremonial observances of the Jews, the feasts and festivals, the new moons, the holy days, and the sabbaths -- was finished.
However there is much more to be "fulfilled" before and after the second coming of Christ. And what Jesus said is that not one jot or tittle of the Old Testament will "pass" or be done away with, until everything written therein is accomplished. The OT revealed BOTH the first and second comings of Christ, and we are a long way from Christ's second coming and the establishment of the New Heavens and the New earth ("till heaven and earth pass").
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