10 Reasons Sin Confession Is Questionable!!!

[Lewiz]

1 john 1:9says confess our sins, it does not say ask forgiveness. If your going to stick to the word, stick to the word.

New International Version
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

New Living Translation
But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.

English Standard Version
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Berean Study Bible
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Berean Literal Bible
If we should confess our sins, He is faithful and just, that He may forgive us our sins and might cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

New American Standard Bible
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

How are christians then getting forgiveness for confessing sins if all our future sins are alreay forgiven?

 

[Angela53510]

It seems that you can only think of forgiveness of sin in terms of justification.

I think even more than gnosticism, this is the foundational error of the Word Faith and its offshoot, hypergrace heresy.

It has an overrealized eschatology. In other words, instead of the three stage of salvation - Justification, which is totally from God, sanctification, in which the Holy Spirit works with us, transforming us into the image of Christ, and glorification, when we are like Christ, because we see him face to face.

Yet, Ben is twisting his words in such a way, he just buffaloed JimBone into believing his false, truncated gospel. Clever trick, Ben. But, I am going to contact Jimbone personally, and I will discuss what you said and did.

So sad that people are so seduced by this horrible false doctrine, of hypergrace, Word Faith and how bad it is. Although, I will say, that hypergrace seems to have offended even Know1, because even with his dogmatic Word Faith wrong beliefs, he has the sense and knowledge to see though the obvious likes of the evils of hypergrace.

 

[know1]

God did not "have the devil attack Job".

satan did that all on his own. The fact that God allowed satan limited access to Job after satan asked permission does not mean God had the devil "attack" Job.

In Job 1:12, we see God limited satan and told him only upon himself put not forth thine hand. Thereafter, in Job 2:6, God granted another request of satan but limited satan from taking the life of Job.

satan is the enemy of God and he attacks God's people. If God's people were to be removed from the earth, satan would attack his own people.

Who do you think prompted the devil to go after Job in the first place?

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Yes, God limited the devil's attacks each time, because He is loving and merciful.
I am not suggesting that God is mean or evil, just that there are consequences to our sinning, and it is the devil that carries them out more often than not.

 

[Cee]

New International Version
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

New Living Translation
But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.

English Standard Version
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Berean Study Bible
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Berean Literal Bible
If we should confess our sins, He is faithful and just, that He may forgive us our sins and might cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

New American Standard Bible
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

How are christians then getting forgiveness for confessing sins if all our future sins are alreay forgiven?

When we confess Him as Lord we are saved. And we become the righteousness of God.

If we say we have no sin, thus no need for Him to save us, the truth is not in us.

In Christ, the truth is in us. And we are in Him.

 

[know1]

I think even more than gnosticism, this is the foundational error of the Word Faith and its offshoot, hypergrace heresy.

It has an overrealized eschatology. In other words, instead of the three stage of salvation - Justification, which is totally from God, sanctification, in which the Holy Spirit works with us, transforming us into the image of Christ, and glorification, when we are like Christ, because we see him face to face.

Yet, Ben is twisting his words in such a way, he just buffaloed JimBone into believing his false, truncated gospel. Clever trick, Ben. But, I am going to contact Jimbone personally, and I will discuss what you said and did.

So sad that people are so seduced by this horrible false doctrine, of hypergrace, Word Faith and how bad it is. Although, I will say, that hypergrace seems to have offended even Know1, because even with his dogmatic Word Faith wrong beliefs, he has the sense and knowledge to see though the obvious likes of the evils of hypergrace.

If you don't mind, would you tell me what hypergrace is about please? I've heard of it before but I regret to say, I'm a little ignorant concerning the doctrine. I thought OSAS was hypergrace.

And no, I am not personally offended by anyone's doctrines. I might not like some of the teachings going around, as you may know, but I don't take offense to what others believe.
Dogmatic.... wrong beliefs?
That hurt.

 

[Angela53510]

If you don't mind, would you tell me what hypergrace is about please? I've heard of it before but I regret to say, I'm a little ignorant concerning the doctrine. I thought OSAS was hypergrace.

And no, I am not personally offended by anyone's doctrines. I might not like some of the teachings going around, as you may know, but I don't take offense to what others believe.
Dogmatic.... wrong beliefs?
That hurt.

Well, you are the one who told me I was not saved because I didn’t believe healing is in the atonement a while back. But, let’s put aside those differences so you can understand a bit more about this.

This whole thing was started by Joseph Prince, of Singapore. He was Word Faith, studied with Copeland I think, but not sure of that detail. Apparently, in the 1990’s God called him to have “more grace.” Which apparently, was a perjorative term, by his enemies, who felt he was scripturally, off base! Which of course, he was. I think the basic idea, is that sin and forgiveness are found once only when the sinner comes to Christ. After that, it is all about confessing only good things about yourself, like, “I am the righteousness of God in Christ.” Paraphrase from 2 Cor. 5:21

Here is a link:

https://www.josephprince.org/blog/daily-grace-inspirations/confessing-your-righteousness-pleases-god

Probably better to read the originator of this first hand, rather than my clumsy second hand accounts. But be careful, it is subtle. It twists Bible definitions. Repentance is now just, “change of mind.” Even though that is the Ancient Greek and gnostic definition of metanoia. And not found or used once in the Bible. No, you don’t have to confess your sins, ask for forgiveness, or believe the Bible at all.

Of course, there is no such confession we are to say. Instead, Paul is teaching us the conclusion of a plea to be reconciled to God. Which is where OSAS does tend to break down. Some days, I leave this forum so appalled by what these hypergracers are saying, I am ready to abandon anything they say! And that includes the security of the believer/OSAS or the whole idea of election and perseverance of the saints. Although I haven’t been able to unconvince myself, yet!

“ [FONT=&quot]God made him who had no sin[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] to be sin[/FONT][FONT=&quot] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” 2 Cor 5:21[/FONT]

I think I would say, most adherents of hypergrace are OSAS. But so are many Baptists, Reformed, and other groups, because of things the Bible says. Really, I do believe God holds us in his hands, if we are truly saved. But, that means walking with Christ and obeying him. It means not changing what the Bible says to some comfortable, easy believism, based on feeling, instead of the Word.

And they are very, very crafty about sucking innocent people into their trap. I saw it on this thread, already. I also know, because they almost sucked me into their lies, a few years ago. Till the Holy Spirit, with the help of some faithful people here, who woke me up to their twisting of words to mean what they don’t, based on English word studies, based on things like Strong’s or Vine’s. Instead of actual lexicons, like Bauer BDAG for Greek or Brown-Driver-Briggs for Hebrew.

Anyway, there is a lot more, I’ve neen meandering a lot. This link is a more concise explanation.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.gotquestions.org/amp/hyper-grace.html

But apparently, Andrew Farley is quite happy with abandoning Bibilcal Christianity, according to hypergracers on another thread on this site posted today. And so it goes, worse and worse!

 

[know1]

Well, you are the one who told me I was not saved because I didn’t believe healing is in the atonement a while back. But, let’s put aside those differences so you can understand a bit more about this.

This whole thing was started by Joseph Prince, of Singapore. He was Word Faith, studied with Copeland I think, but not sure of that detail. Apparently, in the 1990’s God called him to have “more grace.” Which apparently, was a perjorative term, by his enemies, who felt he was scripturally, off base! Which of course, he was. I think the basic idea, is that sin and forgiveness are found once only when the sinner comes to Christ. After that, it is all about confessing only good things about yourself, like, “I am the righteousness of God in Christ.” Paraphrase from 2 Cor. 5:21

Here is a link:

https://www.josephprince.org/blog/daily-grace-inspirations/confessing-your-righteousness-pleases-god

Probably better to read the originator of this first hand, rather than my clumsy second hand accounts. But be careful, it is subtle. It twists Bible definitions. Repentance is now just, “change of mind.” Even though that is the Ancient Greek and gnostic definition of metanoia. And not found or used once in the Bible. No, you don’t have to confess your sins, ask for forgiveness, or believe the Bible at all.

Of course, there is no such confession we are to say. Instead, Paul is teaching us the conclusion of a plea to be reconciled to God. Which is where OSAS does tend to break down. Some days, I leave this forum so appalled by what these hypergracers are saying, I am ready to abandon anything they say! And that includes the security of the believer/OSAS or the whole idea of election and perseverance of the saints. Although I haven’t been able to unconvince myself, yet!

“God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” 2 Cor 5:21

I think I would say, most adherents of hypergrace are OSAS. But so are many Baptists, Reformed, and other groups, because of things the Bible says. Really, I do believe God holds us in his hands, if we are truly saved. But, that means walking with Christ and obeying him. It means not changing what the Bible says to some comfortable, easy believism, based on feeling, instead of the Word.

And they are very, very crafty about sucking innocent people into their trap. I saw it on this thread, already. I also know, because they almost sucked me into their lies, a few years ago. Till the Holy Spirit, with the help of some faithful people here, who woke me up to their twisting of words to mean what they don’t, based on English word studies, based on things like Strong’s or Vine’s. Instead of actual lexicons, like Bauer BDAG for Greek or Brown-Driver-Briggs for Hebrew.

Anyway, there is a lot more, I’ve neen meandering a lot. This link is a more concise explanation.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.gotquestions.org/amp/hyper-grace.html

But apparently, Andrew Farley is quite happy with abandoning Bibilcal Christianity, according to hypergracers on another thread on this site posted today. And so it goes, worse and worse!

As for your first statement concerning what I said, I believe the way I put it was that I questioned your salvation based on your inability to see what I was saying because I thought it was so obvious. I'm pretty sure I didn't say that you weren't saved. But either way, don't take it to heart, I don't know, as you don't know if I am, but I bet you question if I am and just haven't voiced it yet.

Honestly though, I thought you were an OSAS believer and I find it a little surprising that we agree on one thing.

The one reason why I don't agree with some of the things Prince says is because I look things up for myself.

Take John 15:2 for example.

Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away G142 (G846): and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Prince said it meant God would lift them up so that they would bear fruit, because the branches on the ground don't bear fruit. The word does mean "to lift", but it also means "to take up or away", as in , remove.
When in doubt, I ALWAYS seek and go to God for the answers.

I am however a believer in making a good confession, especially ones that agree with what is written.

And what is wrong with Storng's and Vine's definitions if all you are looking for just the basics? I'm not interested in learning the Greek language or sentence structure, I just want to know what the word means so I can get a basic understanding. I happen to use both as well as Thayer's.

Anyway, thanks for letting me know what hypergrace is. I didn't know that was the posts I was responding to.

 

[BenFTW]

I think even more than gnosticism, this is the foundational error of the Word Faith and its offshoot, hypergrace heresy.

It has an overrealized eschatology. In other words, instead of the three stage of salvation - Justification, which is totally from God, sanctification, in which the Holy Spirit works with us, transforming us into the image of Christ, and glorification, when we are like Christ, because we see him face to face.

Yet, Ben is twisting his words in such a way, he just buffaloed JimBone into believing his false, truncated gospel. Clever trick, Ben. But, I am going to contact Jimbone personally, and I will discuss what you said and did.

So sad that people are so seduced by this horrible false doctrine, of hypergrace, Word Faith and how bad it is. Although, I will say, that hypergrace seems to have offended even Know1, because even with his dogmatic Word Faith wrong beliefs, he has the sense and knowledge to see though the obvious likes of the evils of hypergrace.

What I said and did? What is wrong with you? Why do you keep being defamatory towards me, attacking my character? There was no clever trick, nor a twisting of words. I was sincere and honest in what I believe, I presented it in a clear and concise manner (with scripture) and allowed him to be the judge. Do you know my heart? Are you God? I don't appreciate that Angela. You think you know what I believe, you make assumptions and attack straw men. Listen to what I am saying. Stop with your tirade.

 

[BenFTW]

As for your first statement concerning what I said, I believe the way I put it was that I questioned your salvation based on your inability to see what I was saying because I thought it was so obvious. I'm pretty sure I didn't say that you weren't saved. But either way, don't take it to heart, I don't know, as you don't know if I am, but I bet you question if I am and just haven't voiced it yet.

Honestly though, I thought you were an OSAS believer and I find it a little surprising that we agree on one thing.

The one reason why I don't agree with some of the things Prince says is because I look things up for myself.

Take John 15:2 for example.

Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away G142 (G846): and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Prince said it meant God would lift them up so that they would bear fruit, because the branches on the ground don't bear fruit. The word does mean "to lift", but it also means "to take up or away", as in , remove.
When in doubt, I ALWAYS seek and go to God for the answers.

I am however a believer in making a good confession, especially ones that agree with what is written.

And what is wrong with Storng's and Vine's definitions if all you are looking for just the basics? I'm not interested in learning the Greek language or sentence structure, I just want to know what the word means so I can get a basic understanding. I happen to use both as well as Thayer's.

Anyway, thanks for letting me know what hypergrace is. I didn't know that was the posts I was responding to.

You are not responding to hyper-grace. You are discussing God's word with fellow believers in Jesus Christ. Your brothers and sisters in Christ. Angela would have you believe anything that doesn't agree with her understanding of scripture is heretical and then she gives blanket statements about believers (on this site) such as "hyper-grace" and "WOF", to dismiss what they're sharing without considering their words. Its her way of ostracizing fellow believers in Christ.

 

[UnderGrace]

Ad hominem fallacy, a place of last resort.

What I said and did? What is wrong with you? Why do you keep being defamatory towards me, attacking my character? There was no clever trick, nor a twisting of words. I was sincere and honest in what I believe, I presented it in a clear and concise manner (with scripture) and allowed him to be the judge. Do you know my heart? Are you God? I don't appreciate that Angela. You think you know what I believe, you make assumptions and attack straw men. Listen to what I am saying. Stop with your tirade.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Ad hominem fallacy, a place of last resort.

No, that's not what an ad hominem fallacy is at all. An ad hominem fallacy occurs in discussions when someone attack's a person's character rather than a person's arguments. Angela didn't attack Ben's character. She stated her opinion about what he did.

 

[UnderGrace]

I was not speaking to one particular post even though I replied to his post, I can go find many personal attacks.

No, that's not what an ad hominem fallacy is at all. An ad hominem fallacy occurs in discussions when someone attack's a person's character rather than a person's arguments. Angela didn't attack Ben's character. She stated her opinion about what he did.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I was not speaking to one particular post even though I replied to his post, I can go find many personal attacks.

I'm sure you can - by those on both sides of the argument.

 

[UnderGrace]

Well I have had a few disagreements with Ben and he never even came close to a personal attack or comment.

I'm sure you can - by those on both sides of the argument.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Well I have had a few disagreements with Ben and he never even came close to a personal attack or comment.

Look at post #388. He accused Angela of being defamatory. That's a hyperbolic false accusation.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Who do you think prompted the devil to go after Job in the first place?

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Asking satan if he had considered His servant Job is not the same as telling satan to "go after Job".

satan appeared before God and God asked satan "From where have you come". God knew all of satan's comings and goings. He was not asking because He did not know. He was asking for His own reason and purpose.

satan answered "from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it". satan was wandering over that which he had dominion (as that had been delivered to him at the time Adam/Eve sinned - Luke 4:6).

God then asked satan if he had considered or noticed Job. Job was a man of God. Job was one over whom the devil had no "dominion".

God asking whether satan had noticed Job is not telling satan to "go after Job".

Yes, God limited the devil's attacks each time, because He is loving and merciful.
I am not suggesting that God is mean or evil, just that there are consequences to our sinning, and it is the devil that carries them out more often than not.

satan is going to "go after" any and all who trust God. Those whose faith rests in God's mighty Hand are the ones satan is going to "sift as wheat" (Luke 22:31).

If you believe the only reason satan goes after God's people is because that is the "consequences to our sinning", then why did satan go after Jesus? Jesus never sinned, yet satan attacked Him at every turn.

satan's ministry is to steal, kill, destroy (John 10:10). His main focus is God's people. But, as I mentioned before, if God removed all His people from the earth, satan would "go after" his own.


God pointed out Job and it is clear God held Job in high regard. God called Job "My servant" and pointed out "there is none like Job in all the earth". God said Job was "a perfect and upright man, one who fears God, and turns aside from evil". Job was a man who rose above satan's dominion. Job shone as a light in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation.

God did not tell satan "Go after Job because he has sinned". God stayed the hand of satan from his true intent which is to destroy those who believe and trust in God, those whose faith rests in God.

 

[Depleted]

If you don't mind, would you tell me what hypergrace is about please? I've heard of it before but I regret to say, I'm a little ignorant concerning the doctrine. I thought OSAS was hypergrace.

And no, I am not personally offended by anyone's doctrines. I might not like some of the teachings going around, as you may know, but I don't take offense to what others believe.
Dogmatic.... wrong beliefs?
That hurt.

Google the words doctrine and dogma. And then stop using words you don't know the meanings of.

 

[BenFTW]

No, that's not what an ad hominem fallacy is at all. An ad hominem fallacy occurs in discussions when someone attack's a person's character rather than a person's arguments. Angela didn't attack Ben's character. She stated her opinion about what he did.

Look at post #388. He accused Angela of being defamatory. That's a hyperbolic false accusation.

What did I do? You see, that is a judgement upon character and a negative one at that. It is insinuating that I was sly, when in fact I was sincere and honest. I wasn't being deceitful, and for Angela to tell me I was being "clever" and "twisting" my words so as to deceive someone is defamatory. She basically called me a liar, deceptive, and accused me of convincing people (deceptively) of a "truncated gospel" (in other words, a little bit of truth, not the whole picture).

How is that not an ad hominem attack to openly address me as using a clever trick, as being deceptive, and sharing a false gospel (and then suggest they shall rectify this by speaking with the person privately)?

 

[BenFTW]

I had this discussion with my father this morning (sin confession for forgiveness) and what it came down to was this. Sin confession for forgiveness is not about justification before God but about our relationship with God personally. It is like addressing the elephant in the room. It is not that God holds our sins against us, but we in our minds (in our conscience) can have a burden and for this burden to be lifted, we express to God our sin (for our sake).

We are not in this moment (of sin confession) forgiven of God, as if sin confession for forgiveness grants us eternal life (or maintains salvation, or right standing with God). That would be another gospel, and not the Gospel. Our justification before God is the risen Christ. It is through His blood that was shed for our sins that we have the remission of our sins. The forgiveness of sins. Our relationship with God, our fellowship, is dependent upon this truth. We have the total forgiveness of sins, and we are reconciled to God.

When we sin, know that we have sinned, we desire to go before God and have it addressed (maybe even reluctantly, feeling ashamed). Yet God comforts us, consoles us, and informs us of His forgiveness. He doesn't condemn us, and He may even correct us and tell us to make amends. We go before God to have peace in our minds and to seek deliverance from sin. We want to walk in victory, to forsake sin, and to actually walk in love. We do not do this for justification before God, but as a means of sanctification and fellowship with God.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I had this discussion with my father this morning (sin confession for forgiveness) and what it came down to was this. Sin confession for forgiveness is not about justification before God but about our relationship with God personally. It is like addressing the elephant in the room. It is not that God holds our sins against us, but we in our minds (in our conscience) can have a burden and for this burden to be lifted, we express to God our sin (for our sake).

We are not in this moment (of sin confession) forgiven of God, as if sin confession for forgiveness grants us eternal life (or maintains salvation, or right standing with God). That would be another gospel, and not the Gospel. Our justification before God is the risen Christ. It is through His blood that was shed for our sins that we have the remission of our sins. The forgiveness of sins. Our relationship with God, our fellowship, is dependent upon this truth. We have the total forgiveness of sins, and we are reconciled to God.

When we sin, know that we have sinned, we desire to go before God and have it addressed (maybe even reluctantly, feeling ashamed). Yet God comforts us, consoles us, and informs us of His forgiveness. He doesn't condemn us, and He may even correct us and tell us to make amends. We go before God to have peace in our minds and to seek deliverance from sin. We want to walk in victory, to forsake sin, and to actually walk in love. We do not do this for justification before God, but as a means of sanctification and fellowship with God.

I don't think I could have stated it any better. In fact, I know I couldn't.