On Death and Dying -- Spurgeon Style

[Didymous]

Love and the way of the Lord are not at odds. People are just confusing their idea of love with God's love. They are not the same.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Best witness I've ever heard on TV.

The news report was about two young men coming home from classes as Westminster Seminary, and a drunk hit their car and killed them.

So naturally, the reporter needed a somber, crying, reaction from their wives, and got it.

They said, "The Lord is sovereign even in this. Our husbands are with him now. As Jesus asked us to do, we forgive the man who did this. And, we will miss our husbands until we go home." Tears streaming down their faces.

Yes! The Lord is sovereign even with drunk drivers. And, man! I saw it that night.

You blame God for stuff that never happened to you. (Not very peaceful at all.) I thank the Lord and shake, because of the stuff he HAS done to me.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Depleted again.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The problem you believe in "a heavenly Father," the one that fits your desires. There is only one, and he doesn't always meet with our desires. Matter of fact, he rarely meets what we want in "a" god.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Depleted again.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Same problem. You keep inventing your own definitions, and your own personal beliefs. It doesn't work.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Depleted again.

 

[SovereignGrace]

And some like to divide God's will into sections, so they can excuse him, without excusing anyone else but themselves.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Depleted again.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Conversely, I don't know how certain heretics/apostates can convince themselves they're jedi wizards.

Easy...

They just keep saying over and over and over and over again, "I am a Jedi Wizard."

 

[Depleted]

Yes, Jesus came to give us life - abundant life. NOT rape, murder, disease, hate, etc. Those things are the result of the fall, the result of mankind's continued disobedience to God and we live in a world in which the devil is in control - if I am to believe what is written. Does that mean that he can run amuck? No, Christian's prayers, love and stance upon the word given to them to fight the spiritual battle hinders what he can do.

"Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon that your faith may not fail." The devil doesn't just prey on the lost . . . . haven't you read that our battle isn't against flesh and blood? It is a spiritual battle. Haven't you read that the devil walks around seeking whom he may devour so we are to be alert and aware of his devices? For a while Satan has dominion over the world but his time will come to an end - he knows it - so he will just work harder to destroy God's reputation as a loving God and destroy the integrity of God's word.

If God allows ANYONE to kill then it is God doing the killing . . . if God allows ANYONE to rape then it is God doing the raping - Satan works upon the heart of evil men (and women) to steal, kill and destroy. Evil is "allowed" because Satan's time here upon earth is not finished YET. Moses was a vessel unto honor because Moses turned and obeyed God . . . Pharaoh was a vessel unto dishonor because he would not turn and obey God. If you were a potter you would understand that sometimes you get a lump of clay that will not be molded no matter how the potter works with it . . . it is a "dishonorable" piece of clay.

Let's get this down to personal levels, since you prefer vague levels.

I was raped! I do not know all the reasons God had me go through that, but I know this much. I was raped because...
-- I was stupid enough to think I was invincible, and God had to show me how much I need him.

-- Five young men thought they could do anything they wanted. They too thought they were invincible.

-- I needed a kick to get me to the point of really quitting drugs. I had been stuck in this circle of "maybe if I just do a little here and there, I can handle it. No. I really need to stop because I've royally screwed up my time in college, and now I have to live with those consequences and start a real life. But real life is too hard, how about just a little stoned? No, how about a lot of stoned? I really should stop. God is not pleased. But, I don't know how to stop. Well, maybe if I just do a little here and there..." That went on for six months. Circle, circle, circle, because I had no idea what to do next. So, the Lord took me to where I never wanted to go, and plunged me in so deep, my last "rock bottom" looked like a cliff high above me. (Do understand, I was a senior in college, had all the courses I needed to get my degree, and yet could not do what that degree was for -- teach high school English -- because no one ever gave me a hint that I stink at grammar so can't teach English at any grade level. And, poof, four years of college wasted, in more than one way. I could get the degree. I couldn't get certified to teach. And, there was no going back to learn something else by then, so my plans since I was 12 years old had already crashed around me before I was raped.)

-- Somehow, someway, just telling a friend that I was raped, opened up something I never knew about him. He was a pastor. (I did know that. lol) But he was also a counselor at a drug rehab. I never knew that, and because he was on the board for that place, he was able to get me in immediately. Not only did they teach me how to quit drugs and how to live life sober, they also helped me deal with the rape.

-- Because they helped me to do that, I've got a foot up on helping other people -- boys, girls, men, and women -- who have been raped, plus know how to help with any form of real abuse, and can give hope to those people.

-- Hope. Aka God. The one who got me where I needed to be by taking me through something I never thought could happen to me.

-- Hope! In God. The God of love. The God of Justice. The God of wrath.

That's my story.

But, I'm not the only one involved. There were five young men who raped me. There's my family -- some know I was raped, and some don't. The ones who know also had to deal with it. And then there were those counselors who helped me and the group of other druggies who helped me as I helped them. All those people have their own lives, their own families, and their own stories. Most of them may not think it was a big part of their lives that they ever met me, but I know of five young men who have either since become fairly old men or dead. And they had to deal with what they did.

No idea what became of them. (Not stupid enough to search them out.) BUT, did that as-low-as-a-scum-bag-can-get moment in their lives change them? Most certainly. And how? Through God, again. God saved me, despite my obvious stupidity. Did he save them too? I've been praying for that. And, if he saved them, what becomes of their story? Do they help other young men from being as stupid and cruel as they were? I sure hope so. Or, did God do to them, what he did to Pharaoh? Utterly destroy everything around them that gave their lives meaning? Either way, they went on to effect others -- either in a good way or not, but this I know -- whatever God's plan for them has been and maybe still is being carried out.

After all, God used a scum-bag who was going to Damascus to kill Christians and showed him The Light. So God is not opposed to the worst of the worst. But he will use everyone everywhere for furthering his will to have himself a people whom he loves and who will glorify and enjoy him forever.

Rape. A very bad thing, and yet God has used it for his good and glory. That's the true, sovereign God. Not the toy in the Cracker Jack box. God made the clay and he's the potter. He doesn't make useless clay, but he sure does turn some of that clay into mud and some of it into useful vessels.

 

[Depleted]

I don't care who goes along with me . . . I don't care if anyone goes along with me. I have the right to state what I believe just the same as you do. I trust God with everything that is within me . . . but I know that until the end - Satan is the god of this world and that the whole world lies in wickedness that is why we live in this world but are not to be a part of this world. When God is in control, which he was in Eden, the garden of delight, when He "saw all that he had made and it was very good" . . . which will be again when even the wild animals such as lions and wolves will live peacefully with sheep and goats (Isa. 11:6-9) - the world will be a wonderful place which is how God meant for things to be until Satan and a third of the angels were cast out of heaven due to pride and man listened to him and disobeyed God.

You trust a fake god who is weaker than Satan. Of course you don't care. You've got nothing important to care about. But you most certainly do look to seek-and-destroy any post that might happen to have people in it that are Calvinists. So, you are very much out to destroy what you disagree with, even if what you agree with doesn't exist.

This is your consistent game on this site. And it's just a game for you.

 

[Depleted]

On the contrary -

It is a strong God Who gives His children the freedom to choose.

It is a strong God Who loved and provided a way back after the Fall.

It is a strong God Who, in His mercy, came in the flesh to satisfy His justice on our behalf, even while we were yet sinners.​

That's the antithesis of Deism, btw.



-JGIG

Ahh, that's who you are -- a teacher of a chosen god.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Let's get this down to personal levels, since you prefer vague levels.

I was raped! I do not know all the reasons God had me go through that, but I know this much. I was raped because...
-- I was stupid enough to think I was invincible, and God had to show me how much I need him.

-- Five young men thought they could do anything they wanted. They too thought they were invincible.

-- I needed a kick to get me to the point of really quitting drugs. I had been stuck in this circle of "maybe if I just do a little here and there, I can handle it. No. I really need to stop because I've royally screwed up my time in college, and now I have to live with those consequences and start a real life. But real life is too hard, how about just a little stoned? No, how about a lot of stoned? I really should stop. God is not pleased. But, I don't know how to stop. Well, maybe if I just do a little here and there..." That went on for six months. Circle, circle, circle, because I had no idea what to do next. So, the Lord took me to where I never wanted to go, and plunged me in so deep, my last "rock bottom" looked like a cliff high above me. (Do understand, I was a senior in college, had all the courses I needed to get my degree, and yet could not do what that degree was for -- teach high school English -- because no one ever gave me a hint that I stink at grammar so can't teach English at any grade level. And, poof, four years of college wasted, in more than one way. I could get the degree. I couldn't get certified to teach. And, there was no going back to learn something else by then, so my plans since I was 12 years old had already crashed around me before I was raped.)

-- Somehow, someway, just telling a friend that I was raped, opened up something I never knew about him. He was a pastor. (I did know that. lol) But he was also a counselor at a drug rehab. I never knew that, and because he was on the board for that place, he was able to get me in immediately. Not only did they teach me how to quit drugs and how to live life sober, they also helped me deal with the rape.

-- Because they helped me to do that, I've got a foot up on helping other people -- boys, girls, men, and women -- who have been raped, plus know how to help with any form of real abuse, and can give hope to those people.

-- Hope. Aka God. The one who got me where I needed to be by taking me through something I never thought could happen to me.

-- Hope! In God. The God of love. The God of Justice. The God of wrath.

That's my story.

But, I'm not the only one involved. There were five young men who raped me. There's my family -- some know I was raped, and some don't. The ones who know also had to deal with it. And then there were those counselors who helped me and the group of other druggies who helped me as I helped them. All those people have their own lives, their own families, and their own stories. Most of them may not think it was a big part of their lives that they ever met me, but I know of five young men who have either since become fairly old men or dead. And they had to deal with what they did.

No idea what became of them. (Not stupid enough to search them out.) BUT, did that as-low-as-a-scum-bag-can-get moment in their lives change them? Most certainly. And how? Through God, again. God saved me, despite my obvious stupidity. Did he save them too? I've been praying for that. And, if he saved them, what becomes of their story? Do they help other young men from being as stupid and cruel as they were? I sure hope so. Or, did God do to them, what he did to Pharaoh? Utterly destroy everything around them that gave their lives meaning? Either way, they went on to effect others -- either in a good way or not, but this I know -- whatever God's plan for them has been and maybe still is being carried out.

After all, God used a scum-bag who was going to Damascus to kill Christians and showed him The Light. So God is not opposed to the worst of the worst. But he will use everyone everywhere for furthering his will to have himself a people whom he loves and who will glorify and enjoy him forever.

Rape. A very bad thing, and yet God has used it for his good and glory. That's the true, sovereign God. Not the toy in the Cracker Jack box. God made the clay and he's the potter. He doesn't make useless clay, but he sure does turn some of that clay into mud and some of it into useful vessels.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Depleted again.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SovereignGrace]

You trust a fake god who is weaker than Satan. Of course you don't care. You've got nothing important to care about. But you most certainly do look to seek-and-destroy any post that might happen to have people in it that are Calvinists. So, you are very much out to destroy what you disagree with, even if what you agree with doesn't exist.

This is your consistent game on this site. And it's just a game for you.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Depleted again.

 

[Depleted]

There are those here who DO believe that God causes bad things to teach us lessons or as punishment.

It is the Calvinist model of the sovereignty of God. Not all Calvinists hold to that model strictly, but many do.

I know of those who have turned to paganism because they believe it is kinder than the Calvinist picture of the sovereignty of God. NOTE that I say the Calvinist picture of the sovereignty of God, not an accurate picture of the sovereignty of God. Those who 'turn away' from their faith usually do so because they've come to believe a flawed picture of a god they want nothing to do with.

A clear distinction between 'God wills' and 'God allows' needs to be made, along with an acknowledgement that this fallen world has systems and cycles that are not as God originally intended, but are fallen, and do affect the just and the unjust. That doesn't mean that all things are not still held together by God, but He does not micromanage - it rains on the just and the unjust, just as the Scriptures say.

And then, as in the case of sickness and infirmities, a further distinction needs to be made regarding the fact that we, even as children of God, live in a fallen world. There are flaws even in the genes and DNA of us humans - because we are ALL affected by the Fall. Those effects are not universally removed because one comes to Christ.

Are there times when God supernaturally intervenes for one's safety or health? I do believe that is the case, but not always the case.

I'm so sorry for the loss of shrume's baby sister. Our family spent a year at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital with one of our seven children, our then 11-year-old boy who had been diagnosed with metastatic brain and spine cancer. He did well - God provided us with the very best scenario for his treatment, and though there is scar tissue that still shows on scans, he is now 14, two years post-treatment, and thriving!

But we did not know how it would all turn out - even if he would celebrate his 12th birthday! And we know families who had children who did not do well and were lost - from different types of cancer, from the same type of cancer (one sweet girl, diagnosed at just under two, lived just a wee bit past her third birthday.) Is it God's will that some live and some die? That He goes down the line saying, "Life, death, life, death, death, life, life, death."?

No, I don't believe that. I do believe that He loves those wee ones - and their parents and siblings, and in the midst walks every step with those who are His - and we who are His are to reach out to those who don't know Him with comfort and practical helps to love them well and share the Gospel with them when those doors open.

We, as believers, have an eternal perspective in this fallen world, and can walk with great hope in what can seem like a hopeless world. It gives us the ability to love others well in the face of adversity - whether ours or theirs - and share the hope that we have in Christ.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is this: God works in the midst of and in spite of the trials, tragedies, and sickness that this fallen world throws at us, He does not will those trials, tragedies, and sicknesses to then show His power and sovereignty. God works His will despite the evils in this fallen world, He does not cause, or even allow in a targeted way, those evils to then work His will.

God can take what is meant for evil that originates with the Enemy and reckon it for good and to serve His ultimate purposes. We see that truth all throughout the Scriptures.

-JGIG

Do you serve waist-high boots with your manure? You know people who chose paganism rather than the Calvinists God? Too funny! The natural inclination of the human heart is on evil continuously, (Gen. 6:5) but you, alone ,met the one who would have chosen God, but learned of Calvinism before making that "choice?"

Which way to the waist-high-boot aisle?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Let's get this down to personal levels, since you prefer vague levels.

I was raped! I do not know all the reasons God had me go through that, but I know this much. I was raped because...
-- I was stupid enough to think I was invincible, and God had to show me how much I need him.

-- Five young men thought they could do anything they wanted. They too thought they were invincible.

-- I needed a kick to get me to the point of really quitting drugs. I had been stuck in this circle of "maybe if I just do a little here and there, I can handle it. No. I really need to stop because I've royally screwed up my time in college, and now I have to live with those consequences and start a real life. But real life is too hard, how about just a little stoned? No, how about a lot of stoned? I really should stop. God is not pleased. But, I don't know how to stop. Well, maybe if I just do a little here and there..." That went on for six months. Circle, circle, circle, because I had no idea what to do next. So, the Lord took me to where I never wanted to go, and plunged me in so deep, my last "rock bottom" looked like a cliff high above me. (Do understand, I was a senior in college, had all the courses I needed to get my degree, and yet could not do what that degree was for -- teach high school English -- because no one ever gave me a hint that I stink at grammar so can't teach English at any grade level. And, poof, four years of college wasted, in more than one way. I could get the degree. I couldn't get certified to teach. And, there was no going back to learn something else by then, so my plans since I was 12 years old had already crashed around me before I was raped.)

-- Somehow, someway, just telling a friend that I was raped, opened up something I never knew about him. He was a pastor. (I did know that. lol) But he was also a counselor at a drug rehab. I never knew that, and because he was on the board for that place, he was able to get me in immediately. Not only did they teach me how to quit drugs and how to live life sober, they also helped me deal with the rape.

-- Because they helped me to do that, I've got a foot up on helping other people -- boys, girls, men, and women -- who have been raped, plus know how to help with any form of real abuse, and can give hope to those people.

-- Hope. Aka God. The one who got me where I needed to be by taking me through something I never thought could happen to me.

-- Hope! In God. The God of love. The God of Justice. The God of wrath.

That's my story.

But, I'm not the only one involved. There were five young men who raped me. There's my family -- some know I was raped, and some don't. The ones who know also had to deal with it. And then there were those counselors who helped me and the group of other druggies who helped me as I helped them. All those people have their own lives, their own families, and their own stories. Most of them may not think it was a big part of their lives that they ever met me, but I know of five young men who have either since become fairly old men or dead. And they had to deal with what they did.

No idea what became of them. (Not stupid enough to search them out.) BUT, did that as-low-as-a-scum-bag-can-get moment in their lives change them? Most certainly. And how? Through God, again. God saved me, despite my obvious stupidity. Did he save them too? I've been praying for that. And, if he saved them, what becomes of their story? Do they help other young men from being as stupid and cruel as they were? I sure hope so. Or, did God do to them, what he did to Pharaoh? Utterly destroy everything around them that gave their lives meaning? Either way, they went on to effect others -- either in a good way or not, but this I know -- whatever God's plan for them has been and maybe still is being carried out.

After all, God used a scum-bag who was going to Damascus to kill Christians and showed him The Light. So God is not opposed to the worst of the worst. But he will use everyone everywhere for furthering his will to have himself a people whom he loves and who will glorify and enjoy him forever.

Rape. A very bad thing, and yet God has used it for his good and glory. That's the true, sovereign God. Not the toy in the Cracker Jack box. God made the clay and he's the potter. He doesn't make useless clay, but he sure does turn some of that clay into mud and some of it into useful vessels.

When I was around 7-8, I was molested numerous times by a female family member. I was 30 before I could 'lay' with a woman, and my dad was wondering if I was not into women. But he and mom went to their graves never knowing this. I kept it away from them.

Yet in all of that, God was in control of it all. We are not called to know all the details, but to trust Him.

I trust Him with all of my life.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Do you serve waist-high boots with your manure? You know people who chose paganism rather than the Calvinists God? Too funny! The natural inclination of the human heart is on evil continuously, (Gen. 6:5) but you, alone ,met the one who would have chosen God, but learned of Calvinism before making that "choice?"

Which way to the waist-high-boot aisle?

This way...

 

[Depleted]

Blunt is one thing. Jesus Christ was frequently blunt.

You are at times flat out rude.


I'm trying to help you understand what God is like. He is not the God Calvinists think He is. He does not do some of the things Calvinists claim He does. He is not responsible for many of the things Calvinists claim.

We can trust that God is ALWAYS good.

(Also, you might want to proofread things before you post. Some of your insults and false assertions do not make sense.)


Where does the Bible say that?


Reread 2 Cor 4:4. It is not speaking of God.


I never once said anything about my strength or wisdom.

Yup. As I said. Just opened you up to round 22. The reason I do not bother answering your questions.

And I absolutely knew all my answering would do is make you ask more and more questions. Obviously I was right.

This time I'm not answering your question for another reason too. It's way past time for you to study the Bible yourself. Feeding you more and more from the Bible just gave you enough atrophy in your hands and arms to think it is always someone else's responsibility to feed you.

 

[Depleted]

This is so far out of touch with the bible, its sickening.

Now the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord terrorized him.[1 Samuel 16:14]

So it came about whenever the evil spirit from God came to Saul, David would take the harp and play it with his hand; and Saul would be refreshed and be well, and the evil spirit would depart from him.[1 Samuel 16:23]

Now it came about on the next day that an evil spirit from God came mightily upon Saul, and he raved in the midst of the house, while David was playing the harp with his hand, as usual; and a spear was in Saul’s hand.[1 Samuel 18:10]

Now there was an evil spirit from the Lord on Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand, and David was playing the harp with his hand.[1 Samuel 19:9]



Youse guise really need to quit apologizing for God. He knows what to do and how to do it.

Correction: It's youse, youse guys, or you guys, but not "guise."

 

[SovereignGrace]

Correction: It's youse, youse guys, or you guys, but not "guise."

Tomato to-mah-toe...guys guise...

 

[Depleted]

Yes, certain people just have to go on ignore.

The thing I find interesting, is all these hypergrace and/or Word Faith people really think the power of life and death is in their hands, and they can command miracles.

Yet, when you confront them with the sovereignty of God, they get mad and outraged, because their shallow idea of God has been cast down. Really, their concept of God, is more like a demi-god, or maybe some kind of idol.

They certainly have no knowledge of the vast and amazing depth of a holy, mighty, and powerful God, as the Bible describes. I guess it is bad preaching in part, and just a failure to read Scripture in context? I would hope it wouldn't be the ego of these persons, for whom "free will" and their own autonomy and independence is more important than God himself.

The WoFers haven't ascended (yet.) These are the happy-happy-cloud Bob-Ross Christians. What they believe makes it true in a happy-happy way.

[video=youtube;LamNNJbOHsA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LamNNJbOHsA[/video]

 

[Cee]

Yes, certain people just have to go on ignore.

The thing I find interesting, is all these hypergrace and/or Word Faith people really think the power of life and death is in their hands, and they can command miracles.

Yet, when you confront them with the sovereignty of God, they get mad and outraged, because their shallow idea of God has been cast down. Really, their concept of God, is more like a demi-god, or maybe some kind of idol.

They certainly have no knowledge of the vast and amazing depth of a holy, mighty, and powerful God, as the Bible describes. I guess it is bad preaching in part, and just a failure to read Scripture in context? I would hope it wouldn't be the ego of these persons, for whom "free will" and their own autonomy and independence is more important than God himself.

None of this is true. Why do you think it’s okay to put these types of labels on people?

Scripture itself says the power of life and death is in the tongue.

Scripture tells US to pray for the sick. Do you at least pray for the sick to be made well, like we are commanded? It’s not about us having any power outside of God’s Authority. It is AGREEING with His authority. You don’t believe God wants all people well, that’s fine, but you are misrepresenting people when you put it like you did. Are you doing this knowingly or unknowingly?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Correction: It's youse, youse guys, or you guys, but not "guise."

In all seriousness...

How can they pray to God, a God that is not in control of everything? How can they know for a certainty that He can do anything about their earnest prayer?

Watch how they work on here. They slowly bring Him down to their level(figuratively speaking). First off, He is not omniscient, because He had to look down through the corridor of time to see who had faith, and thus elected them. If He had to look down through time, then He is not omniscient. Now He is not in control of everything. So, if He is not omniscient, He can not be omnipotent, because He can not control that which He does not know.

Before you know it, He is no better than an OT teraphim.