On Death and Dying -- Spurgeon Style

[Depleted]

Let's take a look at a few examples of bad times, and God still being in control...

Joseph sold into slavery, gets to be Potiphar's right hand man. His wife wants Joseph, but he gets away and leaves some of his clothing behind. Wife lies and gets Joseph tossed into prison. ~ 3 years later, he interprets a dream for Pharaoh and at the end, is his right hand man. Saves his family from starving to death and knows that they meant it for evil, but God intended it for good.[Genesis 50:20]

Israel is taken into captivity for 70 years. It even says In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it. The Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, along with some of the vessels of the house of God; and he brought them to the land of Shinar, to the house of his god, and he brought the vessels into the treasury of his god.[Daniel 1:1-3] Over a period of time, Daniel is exalted until he becomes King Darius' right hand man. In time, God moves King Cyrus to allow His ppl to return to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple.

Jonah is told, by God, to go to Ninevah. Jonah rebels and goes to Tarshish and gets on a ship. He becomes whale food for three days and nights, and then get regurgitated. Makes haste and goes to Ninevah and tells them what God told him to say. He still gets puffed up when God does not destroy them.

Job is assaulted by Satan, but God told him what he could and could not do, and set the boundaries that he could not cross.

Then there's the cross. The cruelest event to ever take place. A sinless man is crucified to a cross. He is mocked, slapped, spit upon, had His beard torn from His face. His Apostles ran away and leave Him to Himself(yet He was never truly alone) to be throttled by these wicked men.

Apostle Paul is beaten, imprisoned, shipwrecked, ridiculed, and then finally beheaded for the cause of the Christ.



Yet, in all of these events, God was in control.

I still think Abraham was a biggy. God told him he would have a son that would become a mighty nation. He had the son close to two decades later. God told him about land promised to him, except Abraham was never going to enjoy it. And why not? Gen. 15:16 16 [FONT=&quot]And they shall come back here in the fourth generation, for [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]the iniquity of the Amorites [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]is not yet complete.”[/FONT]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know God's not that mean that he could have possibly meant he was waiting 430 years before it was time to wipe out the Amorite. At least, not the "God doesn't do war" god, or the love, love, love god.

 

[SovereignGrace]

None of this is true. Why do you think it’s okay to put these types of labels on people?

Scripture itself says the power of life and death is in the tongue.

Scripture tells US to pray for the sick. Do you at least pray for the sick to be made well, like we are commanded? It’s not about us having any power outside of God’s Authority. It is AGREEING with His authority. You don’t believe God wants all people well, that’s fine, but you are misrepresenting people when you put it like you did. Are you doing this knowingly or unknowingly?

We are to pray for the sick. Yes, this is commanded, and thus we do so.

My dad went on dialysis back at the end of 2011. For 3+ years I prayed for his healing. Yet, when it got to the point where I knew there was no healing for him, I then prayed for God to take him home and not let him suffer anymore.

Prayer bends our will to God's, not vice versa.

 

[Depleted]

Tomato to-mah-toe...guys guise...

Mater!!!

 

[Cee]

We are to pray for the sick. Yes, this is commanded, and thus we do so.

My dad went on dialysis back at the end of 2011. For 3+ years I prayed for his healing. Yet, when it got to the point where I knew there was no healing for him, I then prayed for God to take him home and not let him suffer anymore.

Prayer bends our will to God's, not vice versa.

Thank you for sharing, I have prayed all day and night for people myself. And lost many, but some were saved. I prefer to focus on the ones who are saved. I have no issue with what you said. And I agree prayer is not to get God to do something, it is to agree with His authority, just as Paul asked for believers to pray that he might have boldness. And when the believers came into agreement for Peter in prison an angel set him free.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Mater!!!

Tow-Mater kung fu!!!

 

[Depleted]

None of this is true. Why do you think it’s okay to put these types of labels on people?

Scripture itself says the power of life and death is in the tongue.

Scripture tells US to pray for the sick. Do you at least pray for the sick to be made well, like we are commanded? It’s not about us having any power outside of God’s Authority. It is AGREEING with His authority. You don’t believe God wants all people well, that’s fine, but you are misrepresenting people when you put it like you did. Are you doing this knowingly or unknowingly?

How do you know none of that is true? I can start listing people who believe exactly that.

AND, why is it bad Angela is a labeler, but not bad that you are one? (You labeled her a labeler. Kind of hard not to label people, isn't it? lol)

And you've known Angela longer than I have, surely she's given you her testimony of the healing circus. (Kind of hard not labeling for me too, but then again, I like labels. lol) SHE does believe in miracles. She's merely given up believing God will give her a miracle.

I admit, I can't quite take it that far. I do have OCD traits, and one of them is not knowing when to give up. After running around like a mad woman trying some of the wierdest things in hopes of healing my stomach pain, (and before I knew it wasn't stomach pain. It was a pinched nerve in the back), I admit I don't runaround and seek new ideas anymore, Tried most of them. Bu I do occasionally get my friends to pray over my latest decision and I'm pretty sure healing can be in my future. That's me. Angela isn't me.

 

[Depleted]

I have two kinds of days -- good days and bad days. The labels are directly related to how much of a pain the day is. Not just physical pain, but what is going on in my life.

Good day = Get to do what I want to do.

Bad Day = Have to do what is needed, God taking me where I don't want to go, and/or red lights every block/no parking spot/parked in the middle of a puddle and got my feet wet, sometimes from slush/flood in basement/leaky roof kinds of days/favorite clothes must be thrown out.

And, darn if Spurgeon isn't right in what he says here. I do tend to wrap up bad days with "want to be with the Lord," which rarely means I actually want to be with him.

Just wondering if this doesn't hit home for others too.


“I pray not that thou shouldst take them out of the world.”
John 17:15

It is a sweet and blessed event which will occur to all believers in God's own time—the going home to be with Jesus. In a few more years the Lord's soldiers, who are now fighting "the good fight of faith" will have done with conflict, and have entered into the joy of their Lord. But although Christ prays that His people may eventually be with Him where He is, He does not ask that they may be taken at once away from this world to heaven. He wishes them to stay here. Yet how frequently does the wearied pilgrim put up the prayer, "O that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away and be at rest"; but Christ does not pray like that, He leaves us in His Father's hands, until, like shocks of corn fully ripe, we shall each be gathered into our Master's garner. Jesus does not plead for our instant removal by death, for to abide in the flesh is needful for others if not profitable for ourselves. He asks that we may be kept from evil, but He never asks for us to be admitted to the inheritance in glory till we are of full age. Christians often want to die when they have any trouble. Ask them why, and they tell you, "Because we would be with the Lord." We fear it is not so much because they are longing to be with the Lord, as because they desire to get rid of their troubles; else they would feel the same wish to die at other times when not under the pressure of trial. They want to go home, not so much for the Saviour's company, as to be at rest. Now it is quite right to desire to depart if we can do it in the same spirit that Paul did, because to be with Christ is far better, but the wish to escape from trouble is a selfish one. Rather let your care and wish be to glorify God by your life here as long as He pleases, even though it be in the midst of toil, and conflict, and suffering, and leave Him to say when "it is enough."


Rather amazing how self-centered I/we can be, even when it comes to wanting to be with the Lord.

BTW, how did this go from What God does to us at the end of life all the way to trusting God for miracles?

 

[SovereignGrace]

BTW, how did this go from What God does to us at the end of life all the way to trusting God for miracles?

It all started when PB stated God was not in control of everything. I had to call her hand on that heresy.

 

[Cee]

How do you know none of that is true? I can start listing people who believe exactly that.

AND, why is it bad Angela is a labeler, but not bad that you are one? (You labeled her a labeler. Kind of hard not to label people, isn't it? lol)

And you've known Angela longer than I have, surely she's given you her testimony of the healing circus. (Kind of hard not labeling for me too, but then again, I like labels. lol) SHE does believe in miracles. She's merely given up believing God will give her a miracle.

I admit, I can't quite take it that far. I do have OCD traits, and one of them is not knowing when to give up. After running around like a mad woman trying some of the wierdest things in hopes of healing my stomach pain, (and before I knew it wasn't stomach pain. It was a pinched nerve in the back), I admit I don't runaround and seek new ideas anymore, Tried most of them. Bu I do occasionally get my friends to pray over my latest decision and I'm pretty sure healing can be in my future. That's me. Angela isn't me.

I don’t personally know anyone who believes we make God do what we want. And I know a lot of people who believe in praying for miracles. I suppose some people might, but I just don’t like derogatory labels. And I know I have done it myself, but if I catch myself, I apologize and repent. If you see me negatively labeling an entire group of believers, and assuming I know what they believe please feel free to call me up.

I believe the biggest contention is that some believe it is God’s will to heal always and some believe it isn’t. I don’t personally feel I need to argue about that. I think we can all agree it’s God’s will that we pray for healing, wisdom, and trust in Him. I don’t like labeling a person as not having enough faith because I think it’s super rude and Scripture doesn’t teach that. But I also don’t like labeling people as having a shallow image of God because they don’t believe everything I do. We all have unique understandings and we are all lead by Truth as a Person. So we will see things differently.

I love your light hearted humor. My mom had cancer for almost 10 years, during that time I studied all the cutting edge nutrition of the time and we went to Mexico to learn from a Dr who was helping people with Cancer through natural methods. She got better, but ended up dying. So I understand running around trying all kinds of things. I’m happy sickness and pain won’t be in Heaven where God’s will is fully present. But until that time I do pray for His Kingdom to come, His will to be done, here on Earth as it is in Heaven.

 

[Gabriel2020]

CHRONICLES; 16; 12; And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet,until his disease was exceeding great; yet in his disease he sought not to the Lord,but to the physicians. And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one an fourth year of his reign.. This is the problem with Christians today. All their lives before they were saved knew only of the physicians making them well.,and after they get saved, their trust in God is weak, because they go to the physician first for help.. It does not matter if you will die from your disease, but the fact you will not trust in God with all your heart, soul, and mind.Even after the physician, you will still die sooner or later. I don't mean to offend any with this scripture, but it carries a lot of weight.

 

[garee]

There is no one walking around today performing those kind of miracles performed during the reformation. They were used in parables for the time them present to represent the eternal gospel .

Healings with a confirmation (walking by sight) simply follows after other what some call “sign gifts” (no such thing)as a ooutward sign God is working in a person.

God who is no longer adding to his word for over two thousand years is not sending new revelation to confirm anything. Why go above that which is written as if he was.

Those requiring an outward sign before they will commit faith as the wisdom of this world stumble over the cross. The emblem of the unseen.. The faith of God, that does work in the believer to both will and perform His good pleasure as we are yoked with him

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;1 Corinthians 1:21-23

God is not served by the hands (will of man) It is God who moves men in healing them and not the other way. The Jews who requires that seen before they would commit faith simply made the understanding of God not seen without effect.

Job informs us God is not a man as us. That kind of idealism comes from natural unconverted man called the general of evil (the generation of Adam). They seek after a signs and wonders gospel rather that prophecy.

But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him. Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me: Job 23

The greatest possible healing is a new creation. The bodies of death we live in, will die.

It is not God's purpose to guarantee healing for us, or to necessarily provide healing for us. He does temporally heal all living things that are corrupted. All healing comes from God who heals indiscriminately.

God does this because He is the Creator God who cares for His universe. And if someone is ill, we have the privilege of going to the Lord to beseech the Lord on behalf of this one that is ill. There is no guarantee that the request will not lead a person to his death bed.

We walk by faith the unseen eternal, not after what the eyes see the temporal.

No sign gifts.

Only God can see into the heart of man as he works us all the days of our lives. If he has begun the god work He will finish it to the end

 

[Depleted]

There is no one walking around today performing those kind of miracles performed during the reformation. They were used in parables for the time them present to represent the eternal gospel .

Healings with a confirmation (walking by sight) simply follows after other what some call “sign gifts” (no such thing)as a ooutward sign God is working in a person.

God who is no longer adding to his word for over two thousand years is not sending new revelation to confirm anything. Why go above that which is written as if he was.

Those requiring an outward sign before they will commit faith as the wisdom of this world stumble over the cross. The emblem of the unseen.. The faith of God, that does work in the believer to both will and perform His good pleasure as we are yoked with him

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;1 Corinthians 1:21-23

God is not served by the hands (will of man) It is God who moves men in healing them and not the other way. The Jews who requires that seen before they would commit faith simply made the understanding of God not seen without effect.

Job informs us God is not a man as us. That kind of idealism comes from natural unconverted man called the general of evil (the generation of Adam). They seek after a signs and wonders gospel rather that prophecy.

But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him. Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me: Job 23

The greatest possible healing is a new creation. The bodies of death we live in, will die.

It is not God's purpose to guarantee healing for us, or to necessarily provide healing for us. He does temporally heal all living things that are corrupted. All healing comes from God who heals indiscriminately.

God does this because He is the Creator God who cares for His universe. And if someone is ill, we have the privilege of going to the Lord to beseech the Lord on behalf of this one that is ill. There is no guarantee that the request will not lead a person to his death bed.

We walk by faith the unseen eternal, not after what the eyes see the temporal.

No sign gifts.

Only God can see into the heart of man as he works us all the days of our lives. If he has begun the god work He will finish it to the end

And how did we just get into miracles in the Reformation? Was there an uptick in miracles during the Reformation? And what in the world does that have to do with looking forward to heaven?

(And dang it! I'm living proof there are sign gifts. So is hubby.)

Can't y'all just start yet another healing/miracle thread instead of deciding to continue your pet theories on here? Personally think that one as been covered to death on here, but if you just gotta. Feel free. Go gotta.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Best witness I've ever heard on TV.

The news report was about two young men coming home from classes as Westminster Seminary, and a drunk hit their car and killed them.

So naturally, the reporter needed a somber, crying, reaction from their wives, and got it.

They said, "The Lord is sovereign even in this. Our husbands are with him now. As Jesus asked us to do, we forgive the man who did this. And, we will miss our husbands until we go home." Tears streaming down their faces.

Yes! The Lord is sovereign even with drunk drivers. And, man! I saw it that night.

You blame God for stuff that never happened to you. (Not very peaceful at all.) I thank the Lord and shake, because of the stuff he HAS done to me.

I don't understand your statement: "You blame God for stuff that never happened to you." Where and how? Because I don't blame God for pain and suffering?

 

[garee]

And how did we just get into miracles in the Reformation?

With all due respect…Certain kinds of miracles used to preach the gospel were used during the time of reformation, having nothing to do with the temporal healing or at least according to one of my pet theories. Sorry if it offends you. It’s something that seems to get left out or ignored by many.

John the Baptist who knew he was to die had doubt as to who Christ was. Jesus spoke the parable below to show the focus was not on that seen. It gave John the faith to continue. Seeing he was suffering in unbelief, no faith

Matthew 11:4-6 King James Version (KJV) 2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples, And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see: The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

His whole ministry of Christ revolves around using the things seen to show the unseen gospel. Temporally healings have nothing to do with the eternal gospel. The focus is never in the temporal as that seen .

John 9:39
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

The first century reformation today has little meaning…. almost as if it did not exist and the veil is not rent. My hope is to keep it alive, open for studying. The fifteenth century reformation get most of the attention .

Was there an uptick in miracles during the Reformation? And what in the world does that have to do with looking forward to heaven?

Yes just as in the same way when Moses delivered the Jews out of bondage during that reformation.

It’s in those kinds of parable that the spiritual understanding is hid as it relates to heaven

You say the reformation has been covered to death. Whose death?

(And dang it! I'm living proof there are sign gifts. So is hubby.)

Yes couples are signs gifts to one another

A new contrite heart that desires to do the will of God is a sign not visible to men. Only God can look upon the heart and move men according to His good pleasure. Signs as shadows of the good things to come are designed to represent those who rebel against prophecy. It’s the evil generation of men ,the generation of Adam that does seek after a sign to confirm something. Not the generation of Christ that seeks after prophecy as to the spiritual meaning.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I am not saying God forces a man to get slobbering drunk and get behind the wheel. I am not saying God forces a man to strap a bomb to himself and blow himself and 100's of others up when it goes off. I am not saying God forces a man to rape, murder, molest, steal, kill, beat up ppl. Man's wicked heart is what causes that.

What I am saying, and the bible supports it, is God uses wicked ppl to fulfill His purposes.

So the God of Israel stirred up the spirit of Pul, king of Assyria, even the spirit of Tilgath-pilneser king of Assyria, and he carried them away into exile, namely the Reubenites, the Gadites and the half-tribe of Manasseh, and brought them to Halah, Habor, Hara and to the river of Gozan, to this day.[1 Chronicles 5:26]

When God fulfills a purpose, He will even use the wicked.

When our Lord was crucified, it was God who used wicked ppl, ppl who hated God's Christ, to beat, mock, spit upon, rip the beard from His sweet face, and nail to the cross.

this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.[Acts 2:23]

The Christ was delivered over into the hands of wicked ppl by God Himself. He used their wicked hearts to fulfill His eternal purpose.

Yes, the crucifixion was predetermined by the foreknowledge of God in Genesis 3 . . . And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel. . . . It had to happen in order to reconcile mankind back to God -

yes, that is the word of God and it was going to be fulfilled​

. I don't believe that I have ever said differently. My thing is the fact that God is the causation of the evil, pain and suffering - And if he was in control of EVERYTHING - then he would be the causation of evil, pain and suffering.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

This is so far out of touch with the bible, its sickening.

Now the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord terrorized him.[1 Samuel 16:14]

So it came about whenever the evil spirit from God came to Saul, David would take the harp and play it with his hand; and Saul would be refreshed be well, and the evil spirit would depart from him.[1 Samuel 16:23]

Now it came about on the next day that an evil spirit from God came mightily upon Saul, and he raved in the midst of the house, while David was playing the harp with his hand, as usual; and a spear was in Saul’s hand.[1 Samuel 18:10]

Now there was an evil spirit from the Lord on Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand, and David was playing the harp with his hand.[1 Samuel 19:9]

Youse guise really need to quit apologizing for God. He knows what to do and how to do it.

​

It is true that in the OT - little was known concerning God's enemy and all things were attributed to "god" that is why you can go all over the OT and find and attribute evil to God. But then when you go to the NT contradictions abound - You have a God who is said to be "love and in Him is NO darkness AT ALL but yet darkness is being attributed to him . . .

The first part of 1 Samuel 16:14 tells you that the Spirit of the Lord had departed from Saul.​

Saul was reaping the consequences of his disobedience . . . Saul had violated the LORD's command and his instructions (1 Sam. 15:26), Saul rejected the word of the LORD and the LORD rejected him as king over Israel (1 Sam. 15:26), therefore the Spirit of the LORD departed from him.

If Almighty God

actually​

SENT an evil spirit to terrorize him - then God is in co-hoots, i.e. colluding with his enemy (meaning to cooperate in a secret or unlawful way in order to deceive or gain an advantage over others). God works with Satan?

It's not apologizing for God - It is attributing characteristics of God to God and characteristics of the devil to the devil.​

​

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Let's get this down to personal levels, since you prefer vague levels.

I was raped! I do not know all the reasons God had me go through that, but I know this much. I was raped because...
-- I was stupid enough to think I was invincible, and God had to show me how much I need him.

-- Five young men thought they could do anything they wanted. They too thought they were invincible.

-- I needed a kick to get me to the point of really quitting drugs. I had been stuck in this circle of "maybe if I just do a little here and there, I can handle it. No. I really need to stop because I've royally screwed up my time in college, and now I have to live with those consequences and start a real life. But real life is too hard, how about just a little stoned? No, how about a lot of stoned? I really should stop. God is not pleased. But, I don't know how to stop. Well, maybe if I just do a little here and there..." That went on for six months. Circle, circle, circle, because I had no idea what to do next. So, the Lord took me to where I never wanted to go, and plunged me in so deep, my last "rock bottom" looked like a cliff high above me. (Do understand, I was a senior in college, had all the courses I needed to get my degree, and yet could not do what that degree was for -- teach high school English -- because no one ever gave me a hint that I stink at grammar so can't teach English at any grade level. And, poof, four years of college wasted, in more than one way. I could get the degree. I couldn't get certified to teach. And, there was no going back to learn something else by then, so my plans since I was 12 years old had already crashed around me before I was raped.)

-- Somehow, someway, just telling a friend that I was raped, opened up something I never knew about him. He was a pastor. (I did know that. lol) But he was also a counselor at a drug rehab. I never knew that, and because he was on the board for that place, he was able to get me in immediately. Not only did they teach me how to quit drugs and how to live life sober, they also helped me deal with the rape.

-- Because they helped me to do that, I've got a foot up on helping other people -- boys, girls, men, and women -- who have been raped, plus know how to help with any form of real abuse, and can give hope to those people.

-- Hope. Aka God. The one who got me where I needed to be by taking me through something I never thought could happen to me.

-- Hope! In God. The God of love. The God of Justice. The God of wrath.

That's my story.

But, I'm not the only one involved. There were five young men who raped me. There's my family -- some know I was raped, and some don't. The ones who know also had to deal with it. And then there were those counselors who helped me and the group of other druggies who helped me as I helped them. All those people have their own lives, their own families, and their own stories. Most of them may not think it was a big part of their lives that they ever met me, but I know of five young men who have either since become fairly old men or dead. And they had to deal with what they did.

No idea what became of them. (Not stupid enough to search them out.) BUT, did that as-low-as-a-scum-bag-can-get moment in their lives change them? Most certainly. And how? Through God, again. God saved me, despite my obvious stupidity. Did he save them too? I've been praying for that. And, if he saved them, what becomes of their story? Do they help other young men from being as stupid and cruel as they were? I sure hope so. Or, did God do to them, what he did to Pharaoh? Utterly destroy everything around them that gave their lives meaning? Either way, they went on to effect others -- either in a good way or not, but this I know -- whatever God's plan for them has been and maybe still is being carried out.

After all, God used a scum-bag who was going to Damascus to kill Christians and showed him The Light. So God is not opposed to the worst of the worst. But he will use everyone everywhere for furthering his will to have himself a people whom he loves and who will glorify and enjoy him forever.

Rape. A very bad thing, and yet God has used it for his good and glory. That's the true, sovereign God. Not the toy in the Cracker Jack box. God made the clay and he's the potter. He doesn't make useless clay, but he sure does turn some of that clay into mud and some of it into useful vessels.

I am sorry that you were raped . . . but I am more sorry that you believe God had you raped.

I lived with incest in my family and had a father who was a pedophile . . . but in no way do I blame God for any of it.​

 

[peacefulbeliever]

The problem I am seeing is ppl are so stuck on God being a God of love, they do so to the detriment of all of His other attributes. Its like they divorce His love from all other attributes. God is not just love, but holy, just, righteous, wrath, vengeance, but all they focus on is love, love, love, LOVE!!!
It is because God is love, he is holy, he is just, he is righteous and he will be wrathful, and he will get vengeance that evil is not attributed to him. God is a just God and when Satan was thrown out of heaven, deceived Eve (and in turn Adam), man delivered the dominion over all things in the world to Satan that is why he is called the "god of this world" and God is just and righteous that he will not overstep that UNTIL the END.
The LGBTQ community believes that as well. Try saying God is love to them. I picture things going like this.

Jane goes to a local LGBTQ parade to witness to them. She sees a young lady by herself and she introduces herself to her.

"Hi, I am Jane. I noticed you were here at this parade, and I want to tell you God loves you."

"Hi. I am Judy. I know! Isn't He wonderful? He loves everybody. We are made in His likeness, and He loves us just the way we are."

"Sorry, but He does not love your lifestyle. He loves you, but not your sin."

"What do you mean? God is love, and He can not hate."

"Well, He does hate your sin. He loves you, but hates your sin."

"Look, God loves us the way we are. You are just being silly. That's just like you Christians. You always want to look down on those who are not just like you!"

"Sweetie, that is not what I am doing, but I am concerned for your soul. Those who don't repent of their sins, and die in that state, will go to an eternal hell."

"There you go with God loving me, but then casting me into hell! You are wrong. God is love, and He loves us just the way we are. I help my neighbors when they need help. I go to the homeless shelter twice a week and help to serve meals to the less fortunate. I have donated a bunch of clothes and money to them through the years. I have even driven some of them to hospitals when they need medical care. I help my neighbor, and that is what Jesus said we should do. He loves me just the way I am."

"Sorry dear, but that's not true."

"Look, I am through with you and this 'god' that will cast me into hell. That is not the God I know. I think its best you leave me alone, or I will call for the police."

Yes, God is love, yet because He is love, He also must hate. He hates those who commit iniquity. This 'God loves the sinner but hates the sin' looks good on bumpers, but its not sound teaching.

So now you are grouping me with LGBTQ groups!!! Funny - My husband wants me to be a JP but I won't because that will put me in a position to have to marry gays and lesbians!

I never said God doesn't hate those that commit iniquity . . . I know that there are things God hates - There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community. . . . This conversation started off with saying that God is in complete control, that God is the causation of evil, that God will commit evil so that he can turn it to good . . . wouldn't that be God doing those things that he thinks are an abomination? And because I choose to not believe that I am being associated with the LGBTQ groups - told that I do not fear God?

 

[Depleted]

I don't understand your statement: "You blame God for stuff that never happened to you." Where and how? Because I don't blame God for pain and suffering?

You are here for the same reason Shrume is here -- to instigate against "Calvinism." "Calvinism bad" IS your whole gospel message. You're so bad, I bet you never even read the OP. And what you do is whirling dervish again and again to draw attention on yourself, always pretending it is something above that. And always playing sweet innocents when it is neither sweet nor innocent.

Frankly, I'm tired of your game too.

Keep pretending. But, I really pray the Lord -- the real Lord, not the one you've conjured -- saves you.

I'm done with you and your games.

[video=youtube;jDwnEhMGjCk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDwnEhMGjCk[/video]

 

[Depleted]

With all due respect…Certain kinds of miracles used to preach the gospel were used during the time of reformation, having nothing to do with the temporal healing or at least according to one of my pet theories. Sorry if it offends you. It’s something that seems to get left out or ignored by many.

John the Baptist who knew he was to die had doubt as to who Christ was. Jesus spoke the parable below to show the focus was not on that seen. It gave John the faith to continue. Seeing he was suffering in unbelief, no faith

Matthew 11:4-6 King James Version (KJV) 2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples, And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see: The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

His whole ministry of Christ revolves around using the things seen to show the unseen gospel. Temporally healings have nothing to do with the eternal gospel. The focus is never in the temporal as that seen .

John 9:39
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

The first century reformation today has little meaning…. almost as if it did not exist and the veil is not rent. My hope is to keep it alive, open for studying. The fifteenth century reformation get most of the attention .



Yes just as in the same way when Moses delivered the Jews out of bondage during that reformation.

It’s in those kinds of parable that the spiritual understanding is hid as it relates to heaven

You say the reformation has been covered to death. Whose death?



Yes couples are signs gifts to one another

A new contrite heart that desires to do the will of God is a sign not visible to men. Only God can look upon the heart and move men according to His good pleasure. Signs as shadows of the good things to come are designed to represent those who rebel against prophecy. It’s the evil generation of men ,the generation of Adam that does seek after a sign to confirm something. Not the generation of Christ that seeks after prophecy as to the spiritual meaning.

Oh, you consider the formation, the reformation. I didn't get that.

And, no. Marrying hubby isn't the sign gifts. I've been miraculously healed three times, hubby has been one dramatic time, and both of us have been used by the Lord for someone else's healing.