The covenant of Daniel 9 :27

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#21
It is ok to disagree this is a Bible discussion forum. For now I would like to discuss God's covenant with Abraham and his seed, what do you understand the covenant to be?
The covenant of the seed "In You Shall ALL THE NATIONS be blessed" speak about one aspect of the covenant God made with abraham. in Which God promised that out of his seed shall come a redeemer which will bless all nations. This is the "Salvic" aspect of Gods covenant with abraham. And should be kept separate from the "national" aspects of his covenant. which were only given to his "blood, or physical descendants"


 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#22
and the people (Romans soldiers) of the prince (Titus) that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary (70AD); and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
It all sounds good except for a few things.

1. Titus did not become "prince" or "ruler" until 79 AD. he had no power to confirm or deny any agreement(covenant) made with any people. Only his father did. And what 7 year covenant was confirmed 3 1/2 years before 70 AD?
2. Gabriel is speaking of the "after the 69th week period" if Messiah was cut off after 69 weeks. Then the 70th week would have ended some time around 40 AD. Which means we already have a period of 30 years which is unaccounted for. Many say Messiah was cut off after 3 1/2 years into the 70th week. Then it gives us 3 1/2 years more uncharted time according to the 70 week prophesy. (then again, When did Titus father make a covenant 3 1/2 years before Christ was crucified, if this theory is used?)
3. Gabriel states the "desolations" shall occur until the end of wars are determined. How long is this time period??
4. Gabriel states that after this "end of wars" He "the prince who is to come" will confirm a covenant for 7 years (1 week) and in the middle of this week commit abomination. Even if we assume it was titus. When did titus confirm any covenant with anyone 3 1/2 years before he destroyed the temple?

conclusion: Time periods are WAY off if one determins this to be fulfilled in 70 AD

~

Matthew 23
37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Luke 19
Jesus Weeps over Jerusalem
41And when he drew near and saw the city, he wept over it, 42saying, “Would that you, even you, had known on this day the things that make for peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43For the days will come upon you, when your enemies will set up a barricade around you and surround you and hem you in on every side 44and tear you down to the ground, you and your children within you. And they will not leave one stone upon another in you, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

Yes! IF Israel would have remembered daniels prophesy. They would have KNOWN The exact day and year Messiah would have entered jerusalem. (the end of the 69th week) They did not. and because of their unbelief, 70 AD happened.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#23
The covenant of the seed "In You Shall ALL THE NATIONS be blessed" speak about one aspect of the covenant God made with abraham. in Which God promised that out of his seed shall come a redeemer which will bless all nations. This is the "Salvic" aspect of Gods covenant with abraham. And should be kept separate from the "national" aspects of his covenant. which were only given to his "blood, or physical descendants"
Joshua 21
Cities and Pasturelands Allotted to Levi
1Then the heads of the fathers’ houses of the Levites came to Eleazar the priest and to Joshua the son of Nun and to the heads of the fathers’ houses of the tribes of the people of Israel. 2And they said to them at Shiloh in the land of Canaan, “The Lord commanded through Moses that we be given cities to dwell in, along with their pasturelands for our livestock.” 3So by command of the Lord the people of Israel gave to the Levites the following cities and pasturelands out of their inheritance.

4The lot came out for the clans of the Kohathites. So those Levites who were descendants of Aaron the priest received by lot from the tribes of Judah, Simeon, and Benjamin, thirteen cities.

5And the rest of the Kohathites received by lot from the clans of the tribe of Ephraim, from the tribe of Dan and the half-tribe of Manasseh, ten cities.

6The Gershonites received by lot from the clans of the tribe of Issachar, from the tribe of Asher, from the tribe of Naphtali, and from the half-tribe of Manasseh in Bashan, thirteen cities.

7The Merarites according to their clans received from the tribe of Reuben, the tribe of Gad, and the tribe of Zebulun, twelve cities.

8These cities and their pasturelands the people of Israel gave by lot to the Levites, as the Lord had commanded through Moses.

9Out of the tribe of the people of Judah and the tribe of the people of Simeon they gave the following cities mentioned by name, 10which went to the descendants of Aaron, one of the clans of the Kohathites who belonged to the people of Levi; since the lot fell to them first. 11They gave them Kiriath-arba (Arba being the father of Anak), that is Hebron, in the hill country of Judah, along with the pasturelands around it. 12But the fields of the city and its villages had been given to Caleb the son of Jephunneh as his possession.

13And to the descendants of Aaron the priest they gave Hebron, the city of refuge for the manslayer, with its pasturelands, Libnah with its pasturelands, 14Jattir with its pasturelands, Eshtemoa with its pasturelands, 15Holon with its pasturelands, Debir with its pasturelands, 16Ain with its pasturelands, Juttah with its pasturelands, Beth-shemesh with its pasturelands—nine cities out of these two tribes; 17then out of the tribe of Benjamin, Gibeon with its pasturelands, Geba with its pasturelands, 18Anathoth with its pasturelands, and Almon with its pasturelands—four cities. 19The cities of the descendants of Aaron, the priests, were in all thirteen cities with their pasturelands.

20As to the rest of the Kohathites belonging to the Kohathite clans of the Levites, the cities allotted to them were out of the tribe of Ephraim. 21To them were given Shechem, the city of refuge for the manslayer, with its pasturelands in the hill country of Ephraim, Gezer with its pasturelands, 22Kibzaim with its pasturelands, Beth-horon with its pasturelands—four cities; 23and out of the tribe of Dan, Elteke with its pasturelands, Gibbethon with its pasturelands, 24Aijalon with its pasturelands, Gath-rimmon with its pasturelands—four cities; 25and out of the half-tribe of Manasseh, Taanach with its pasturelands, and Gath-rimmon with its pasturelands—two cities. 26The cities of the clans of the rest of the Kohathites were ten in all with their pasturelands.

27And to the Gershonites, one of the clans of the Levites, were given out of the half-tribe of Manasseh, Golan in Bashan with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, and Beeshterah with its pasturelands—two cities; 28and out of the tribe of Issachar, Kishion with its pasturelands, Daberath with its pasturelands, 29Jarmuth with its pasturelands, En-gannim with its pasturelands—four cities; 30and out of the tribe of Asher, Mishal with its pasturelands, Abdon with its pasturelands, 31Helkath with its pasturelands, and Rehob with its pasturelands—four cities; 32and out of the tribe of Naphtali, Kedesh in Galilee with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, Hammoth-dor with its pasturelands, and Kartan with its pasturelands—three cities. 33The cities of the several clans of the Gershonites were in all thirteen cities with their pasturelands.

34And to the rest of the Levites, the Merarite clans, were given out of the tribe of Zebulun, Jokneam with its pasturelands, Kartah with its pasturelands, 35Dimnah with its pasturelands, Nahalal with its pasturelands—four cities; 36and out of the tribe of Reuben, Bezer with its pasturelands, Jahaz with its pasturelands, 37Kedemoth with its pasturelands, and Mephaath with its pasturelands—four cities; 38and out of the tribe of Gad, Ramoth in Gilead with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, Mahanaim with its pasturelands, 39Heshbon with its pasturelands, Jazer with its pasturelands—four cities in all. 40As for the cities of the several Merarite clans, that is, the remainder of the clans of the Levites, those allotted to them were in all twelve cities.

41The cities of the Levites in the midst of the possession of the people of Israel were in all forty-eight cities with their pasturelands. 42These cities each had its pasturelands around it. So it was with all these cities.

43Thus the Lord gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there. 44And the Lord gave them rest on every side just as he had sworn to their fathers. Not one of all their enemies had withstood them, for the Lord had given all their enemies into their hands. 45Not one word of all the good promises that the Lord had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#24
It all sounds good except for a few things.

1. Titus did not become "prince" or "ruler" until 79 AD. he had no power to confirm or deny any agreement(covenant) made with any people. Only his father did. And what 7 year covenant was confirmed 3 1/2 years before 70 AD?
EG: Titus did not do anything about any covenant.
the covenant part is not about Titus or Satan or Obama or anybody else.

it's JESUS.

you're still not understanding that the actual events of 70AD are not said to take place within the 70 weeks!

the DECREE of desolation uttered by Jesus DID take place within the 70 weeks (Behold, your house is left DESOLATE!).that determined.

Just as He told them, within that very living generation all those things would come upon them (He had declared the Covenant curses to the Pharisees: WOES)...less than 40 years later (within a generation) Titus came.

its not talking about any covenant related to Titus. Titus doesn't have to arrive within the 70 weeks!

Yes! IF Israel would have remembered daniels prophesy. They would have KNOWN The exact day and year Messiah would have entered jerusalem. (the end of the 69th week) They did not. and because of their unbelief, 70 AD happened.
and?
the whole Plan came to a grinding halt and was Postponed?
God came up with Plan B?
that's Dispensationalism.

and no...Jesus arrived IN the 70th week.

it wasn't severed and dragged 2000 years into the future. if it was you're still in your sins!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#25
Joshua 21
Cities and Pasturelands Allotted to Levi
1Then the heads of the fathers’ houses of the Levites came to Eleazar the priest and to Joshua the son of Nun and to the heads of the fathers’ houses of the tribes of the people of Israel. 2And they said to them at Shiloh in the land of Canaan, “The Lord commanded through Moses that we be given cities to dwell in, along with their pasturelands for our livestock.” 3So by command of the Lord the people of Israel gave to the Levites the following cities and pasturelands out of their inheritance.

4The lot came out for the clans of the Kohathites. So those Levites who were descendants of Aaron the priest received by lot from the tribes of Judah, Simeon, and Benjamin, thirteen cities.

5And the rest of the Kohathites received by lot from the clans of the tribe of Ephraim, from the tribe of Dan and the half-tribe of Manasseh, ten cities.

6The Gershonites received by lot from the clans of the tribe of Issachar, from the tribe of Asher, from the tribe of Naphtali, and from the half-tribe of Manasseh in Bashan, thirteen cities.

7The Merarites according to their clans received from the tribe of Reuben, the tribe of Gad, and the tribe of Zebulun, twelve cities.

8These cities and their pasturelands the people of Israel gave by lot to the Levites, as the Lord had commanded through Moses.

9Out of the tribe of the people of Judah and the tribe of the people of Simeon they gave the following cities mentioned by name, 10which went to the descendants of Aaron, one of the clans of the Kohathites who belonged to the people of Levi; since the lot fell to them first. 11They gave them Kiriath-arba (Arba being the father of Anak), that is Hebron, in the hill country of Judah, along with the pasturelands around it. 12But the fields of the city and its villages had been given to Caleb the son of Jephunneh as his possession.

13And to the descendants of Aaron the priest they gave Hebron, the city of refuge for the manslayer, with its pasturelands, Libnah with its pasturelands, 14Jattir with its pasturelands, Eshtemoa with its pasturelands, 15Holon with its pasturelands, Debir with its pasturelands, 16Ain with its pasturelands, Juttah with its pasturelands, Beth-shemesh with its pasturelands—nine cities out of these two tribes; 17then out of the tribe of Benjamin, Gibeon with its pasturelands, Geba with its pasturelands, 18Anathoth with its pasturelands, and Almon with its pasturelands—four cities. 19The cities of the descendants of Aaron, the priests, were in all thirteen cities with their pasturelands.

20As to the rest of the Kohathites belonging to the Kohathite clans of the Levites, the cities allotted to them were out of the tribe of Ephraim. 21To them were given Shechem, the city of refuge for the manslayer, with its pasturelands in the hill country of Ephraim, Gezer with its pasturelands, 22Kibzaim with its pasturelands, Beth-horon with its pasturelands—four cities; 23and out of the tribe of Dan, Elteke with its pasturelands, Gibbethon with its pasturelands, 24Aijalon with its pasturelands, Gath-rimmon with its pasturelands—four cities; 25and out of the half-tribe of Manasseh, Taanach with its pasturelands, and Gath-rimmon with its pasturelands—two cities. 26The cities of the clans of the rest of the Kohathites were ten in all with their pasturelands.

27And to the Gershonites, one of the clans of the Levites, were given out of the half-tribe of Manasseh, Golan in Bashan with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, and Beeshterah with its pasturelands—two cities; 28and out of the tribe of Issachar, Kishion with its pasturelands, Daberath with its pasturelands, 29Jarmuth with its pasturelands, En-gannim with its pasturelands—four cities; 30and out of the tribe of Asher, Mishal with its pasturelands, Abdon with its pasturelands, 31Helkath with its pasturelands, and Rehob with its pasturelands—four cities; 32and out of the tribe of Naphtali, Kedesh in Galilee with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, Hammoth-dor with its pasturelands, and Kartan with its pasturelands—three cities. 33The cities of the several clans of the Gershonites were in all thirteen cities with their pasturelands.

34And to the rest of the Levites, the Merarite clans, were given out of the tribe of Zebulun, Jokneam with its pasturelands, Kartah with its pasturelands, 35Dimnah with its pasturelands, Nahalal with its pasturelands—four cities; 36and out of the tribe of Reuben, Bezer with its pasturelands, Jahaz with its pasturelands, 37Kedemoth with its pasturelands, and Mephaath with its pasturelands—four cities; 38and out of the tribe of Gad, Ramoth in Gilead with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, Mahanaim with its pasturelands, 39Heshbon with its pasturelands, Jazer with its pasturelands—four cities in all. 40As for the cities of the several Merarite clans, that is, the remainder of the clans of the Levites, those allotted to them were in all twelve cities.

41The cities of the Levites in the midst of the possession of the people of Israel were in all forty-eight cities with their pasturelands. 42These cities each had its pasturelands around it. So it was with all these cities.

43Thus the Lord gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there. 44And the Lord gave them rest on every side just as he had sworn to their fathers. Not one of all their enemies had withstood them, for the Lord had given all their enemies into their hands. 45Not one word of all the good promises that the Lord had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.
Again one problem with this post.

Genesis 13:15
for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants forever.

This was not a temporary covenant, it was a "forever" covenant.

Specifics and requirements were given to Israel if they were to "occupy" the land given as an ETERNAL covenant in lev 26.

For occupying this land:


3 ‘If you walk in My statutes and keep My commandments, and perform them,
4 then I will give you rain in its season, the land shall yield its produce, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.
5 Your threshing shall last till the time of vintage, and the vintage shall last till the time of sowing;
you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.

6 I will give peace in the land, and you shall lie down, and none will make you afraid;
I will rid the land of evil beasts,

and the sword will not go through your land.
7 You will chase your enemies, and they shall fall by the sword before you.
8 Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight;
your enemies shall fall by the sword before you.

9 ‘For I will look on you favorably and make you fruitful, multiply you and confirm My covenant with you.
10 You shall eat the old harvest, and clear out the old because of the new.
11 I will set My tabernacle among you, and My soul shall not abhor you.
12 I will walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people.



For disobedience. The final straw!


30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you. 31 I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your sweet aromas.

32 I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it.
33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you;
your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.
34 Then the land shall enjoy its sabbaths as long as it lies desolate and you are in your enemies’ land;
then the land shall rest and enjoy its sabbaths.
35 As long as it lies desolate it shall rest—
for the time it did not rest on your sabbaths when you dwelt in it.
36 ‘And as for those of you who are left, I will send faintness into their hearts in the lands of their enemies;
the sound of a shaken leaf shall cause them to flee;
they shall flee as though fleeing from a sword, and they shall fall when no one pursues.
37 They shall stumble over one another, as it were before a sword, when no one pursues;
and you shall have no power to stand before your enemies.
38 You shall perish among the nations, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up.
39 And those of you who are left shall waste away in their iniquity in your enemies’ lands;
also in their fathers’ iniquities, which are with them, they shall waste away.


Which happened completely in 70AD. Many say it happened according to jeremiah's prophesy of 70 year captivity from babylon. However. it was not a complete fulfillment of lev 26 because They were not "Scattered" some were taken to babylon. many were left to their land"


This is also the "Context" of Daniel 9. Daniel was praying because the end of "jeremiah's"prophesy was near. and Daniel knew it. And he also knew Israel had not repented and were still in sin.

even so. God made an out for Israel. even if this "complete" scattering of the people, and the desolation and waste of the city and temple occured.


40 ‘But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me, 41 and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt—

42 then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember;
I will remember the land.
43 The land also shall be left empty by them, and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them;
they will accept their guilt, because they despised My judgments and because their soul abhorred My statutes.
44 Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them;
for I am the LORD their God.
45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God:
I am the LORD.’”

You see, even "as today" as Israel is in the land of her enemies. God has not forgotten his covenant with THEM.

If and when they repent (and many OT prophesies, and paul himself state they will when the times of the gentiles (church) has been completed) Then Israel WILL REPENT. and do exactly what these last verses state. And God will remember his covenant with them, and return them to their land.



 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#26
EG: Titus did not do anything about any covenant.
the covenant part is not about Titus or Satan or Obama or anybody else.


According to Gabriel. The "prince who is to come" confirms the covenant. So how can you say he has nothing to do with it if Titus is the one who commits the abomination?? It can't be both ways.

it's JESUS.

It also CAN"T BE JESUS. Jesus did not commit the abomination. The one who confirms the covenant does. Jesus even claims this himself. He did not say when you see HIM commit the abomination.

you're still not understanding that the actual events of 70AD are not said to take place within the 70 weeks!


You don't understand the end of the 70 weeks is completed when the prophesies are fulfilled. The one week covenant is the FINAL week of this seven week period.

everything else between the time messiah is cut off, and the covenant is confimed "marking the begining of the 70th week) happens between the 69th and 70 week. That is why there is a gap. Both pre mil and Amil must have a gap. because non of the other stuff fit within the 69th and 70th week.

the DECREE of desolation uttered by Jesus DID take place within the 70 weeks (Behold, your house is left DESOLATE!).that determined.


No that decree was part of daniels prophesy from Gabriel. Happening AFTER the cutting off of the messiah, and BEFORE the covenant is made, which is broken in the middle of the week. Your time period and sequence of events are off.

26 “ And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off
, but not for Himself;

Item one in sequence. Messiah cut off. fulfilled at the crucifiction.

And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Item two. Destruction of the cities and temple, and the land left desolate until the end of war desolations are determined. Started in 70 AD, and continues today



27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;

Item three. the confirmation of some agreement between this prince and "many people" We know this FOLLOWS the destruction. Because of the word THEN, Then always shows that something happens AFTER the previous set of events.



But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,


Item 4. In the middle of this 7 year period. He, the prince" breaks this covenant, and commits the abomination. This abomination is spoken of by Christ. And Christ makes it clear, after this even takes place. a period of tribulation shall occure on this earth such as has never been seen before. It will be so great and so terrible that Christ himself has to return to put a stop of it or mankind will wipe itself off the earth. This was not even possible until the advent of nuclear weapons. so could not have been fulfilled. Gabriel even tells us how long this period will last.

Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”


It will last until the time is consumed. Which would mark the end of the 70th week of daniels prophesy. And the end of tribulation. When Christ returns and destroys evil (the desolate) off the earth.


Just as He told them, within that very living generation all those things would come upon them (He had declared the Covenant curses to the Pharisees: WOES)...less than 40 years later (within a generation) Titus came.
its not talking about any covenant related to Titus. Titus doesn't have to arrive within the 70 weeks!


That is just PART of the fulfilment. Gabriel said many things would happen AFTER these events take place.



and?
the whole Plan came to a grinding halt and was Postponed?
God came up with Plan B?
that's Dispensationalism.

and no...Jesus arrived IN the 70th week.

it wasn't severed and dragged 2000 years into the future. if it was you're still in your sins!
1. See above.
2. If we look at the time period of the decree to restor Jerusalem (not the tmple but the actual city) until messiah the prince. we see that Christ entered jerusalem on the excact day the 69th week ended.

Daniel did not say he would arrive in the 70 week. He said he would arrive at the end of the 69th week

25 “ Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem

Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street[c] shall be built again, and the wall,[d]
Even in troublesome times.

62 plus 7 equals 69 weeks. This shows messiah will be introduced at the end of 69th week. Which he did when he rode in on a donkey. This was fulfilled literally.

26 “ And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

Messiah cut off after "the 62 week" period of the 7 plus 62.

If jesus entered on the last day of the 69 week. He was "cut off" 7 days later. Fulfilled completely.

what happens next?


And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

The end of it shall be with a flood,

This happened many decades later. so we already have a "GAP" with no 70th week being fulfilled.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#27
I wont go deep into the covenant here. although most do not realise that the covenant/promise. given to Abraham has never changed even to this day. rather the changes in the promise/covenant have been opened up more and more over time to eventually be understood through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ for our sins.

That being said I would like to address this passage in Daniel 9:27.

Many have misunderstood this passage due to a lack of study on their own part to ascertain the true meaning.

SO with that said lets take a closer look at the passage and its context.

Notice first that the context is found in verse 24


Dan 9:24 Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.

Interestingly enough This prophecy tells us that God has given his chosen people/Israel (Seventy sevens) or in other words 70*7 which =490. now this is interesting when you think about it. In this time Israel is told to finish transgression which means stop breaking the law. and put an end to sin.

so this is a time to seek God for forgiveness and obey him. Notice the words of Jesus when asked how many times we should forgive those who sin against us.


Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mat 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Notice that the time Jesus gives is also 70*7 which is 490 times. this is the same as the time that God gave Israel to put an end to sin and to atone for wickedness. (atone means to become one with God) see the atonement teachings in exodus and Leviticus.

so Israel has 490 what to atone?

Eze 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

Num 14:34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.

Here we see that prophetically 1 day = 1 year so the time given here is 490 years to atone for wickedness and put away sin.

so when does this 490 years begin?

Answer: Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

The Angel says that it starts at the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem thus we must find this time to know when it will start.

So when did this happen?

Answer: Ezr 7:11 Now this is the copy of the letter that the king Artaxerxes gave unto Ezra the priest, the scribe, even a scribe of the words of the commandments of the LORD, and of his statutes to Israel.
Ezr 7:12 Artaxerxes, king of kings, unto Ezra the priest, a scribe of the law of the God of heaven, perfect peace, and at such a time.
Ezr 7:13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.
Ezr 7:14 Forasmuch as thou art sent of the king, and of his seven counsellors, to enquire concerning Judah and Jerusalem, according to the law of thy God which is in thine hand;
Ezr 7:15 And to carry the silver and gold, which the king and his counsellors have freely offered unto the God of Israel, whose habitation is in Jerusalem,
Ezr 7:16 And all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon, with the freewill offering of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly for the house of their God which is in Jerusalem:
Ezr 7:17 That thou mayest buy speedily with this money bullocks, rams, lambs, with their meat offerings and their drink offerings, and offer them upon the altar of the house of your God which is in Jerusalem.
Ezr 7:18 And whatsoever shall seem good to thee, and to thy brethren, to do with the rest of the silver and the gold, that do after the will of your God.
Ezr 7:19 The vessels also that are given thee for the service of the house of thy God, those deliver thou before the God of Jerusalem.
Ezr 7:20 And whatsoever more shall be needful for the house of thy God, which thou shalt have occasion to bestow, bestow it out of the king's treasure house.
Ezr 7:21 And I, even I Artaxerxes the king, do make a decree to all the treasurers which are beyond the river, that whatsoever Ezra the priest, the scribe of the law of the God of heaven, shall require of you, it be done speedily,
Ezr 7:22 Unto an hundred talents of silver, and to an hundred measures of wheat, and to an hundred baths of wine, and to an hundred baths of oil, and salt without prescribing how much.
Ezr 7:23 Whatsoever is commanded by the God of heaven, let it be diligently done for the house of the God of heaven: for why should there be wrath against the realm of the king and his sons?
Ezr 7:24 Also we certify you, that touching any of the priests and Levites, singers, porters, Nethinims, or ministers of this house of God, it shall not be lawful to impose toll, tribute, or custom, upon them.
Ezr 7:25 And thou, Ezra, after the wisdom of thy God, that is in thine hand, set magistrates and judges, which may judge all the people that are beyond the river, all such as know the laws of thy God; and teach ye them that know them not.
Ezr 7:26 And whosoever will not do the law of thy God, and the law of the king, let judgment be executed speedily upon him, whether it be unto death, or to banishment, or to confiscation of goods, or to imprisonment.

It goes on so i suggest reading it in its entirety. but it is here that the full realisation of the prophecy of Daniel comes to be. in the year 457 b.c.

now some may ask how we know its this decree and not one of the other two given. the answer is simple. Artaxerxes decree was made up of the other two decrees before it and the added point of keeping the laws of God. so the decree was not fully realised until Artaxerxes made his decree.


Ezr 6:14 And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.

the Prophecy of Daniel did not just say rebuild only but also to restore. it was only at he decree of Artaxerxes that this came to be by the hand of the Lord. Not only were they to rebuild but they were also to restore the laws and practises of the God of heaven.

now let us examine verse 25 again to see what else we can learn from it.


Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

notice that the prophecy stretches to the Messiah the prince. which shall be 7 weeks which would mean 7*7days = 49 years and three score and two weeks, now for those who do not no. a score is 20 thus three score is 3*20= 60 and two weeks means 62 weeks which is 62*7 =434 years

so from 457 b/c we know that the Messiah the prince shall be on the scene after 434years plus 49 years. this would be 483 years after 457 b/c when the decree was given.

this take us to the year 27 ad. what happened on the year 27 ad?

Answer: this is the year that Jesus was baptised by John and the anointed by the Holy Spirit. by the way Messiah means anointed one. How do we know this?

Answer: Luk 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
Luk 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Note that Jesus was baptised here but we are told when earlier in the chapter at what time.


Luk 3:1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,

By history we can find the 15th year of Tiberius which is exactly 27 ad. wow can you see it. the time fits exactly as God predicted it would.

Jesus understood the Prophecy of Daniel and how it pointed to Him as the one who would be anointed to preach the gospel at that exact year. we will soon learn that it is this same prophecy that Jesus was able to know when it was his time to die for mankind. but listen to the words of Jesus.

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Notice Jesus was anointed to preach the gospel and to bring healing to mankind.

also take note of Jesus words after he was baptised and come out of the temptation in the wilderness he begins to preach and says.

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Jesus understood that the prophecy in Daniel was fulfilled that spoke of the anointed one coming. not only that but the last week or 7 years of the prophecy had now begun.

let us take a look at verse 26

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

notice here that we are told that after the threescore and two weeks that the anointed one/Messiah will be cut off. but not for himself. The words to cut of here actually mean to be destroyed and even more specifically relate to covenant. So after this time the anointed one will confirm the covenant. now let me ask you, who is the better covenant?

Answer: Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Jesus is our covenant between God an man. Jesus is our anointed one. and the time prophecy states that after 27 ad which was when Jesus was baptised and began to preach in the power of the Holy Spirit. After this time He would establish the covenant and be cut of or die.

When exactly would this happen according to Daniel?

Answer:

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

here we are told that in the middle of the week (7 years) he would confirm this covenant with many. this would be 3 and a half years after 27 ad. this leads us to 31 ad when Jesus was crucified in history. again the prophecy is accurate before its time.

the passage goes on to clarify.

"and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease..."

so he would cause the sacrifices and the sin offerings to stop. How?

Answer:

Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Jesus came to be our sacrifice for sin. he came in a human body and died for our sins. thus there was no need after this time for the sacrifices and offerings in the sanctuary any more. because the better sacrifice had come. the new covenant was established by Jesus Christ.

but wait there is still 3 and a half years left for the 490 year prophecy. Now remember that this prophecy was given to Gods nation to put away sin. they were given 490 years to do so.

Now the Jewish nation had rejected the covenant when they rejected Jesus on the cross but at that time it was not too late. remember the words of Jesus after he rose.

Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Notice Jesus first sent them to the very people who rejected Him. His own nation. why because the time was not yet up they still had 3 and a half years to atone. (be one with God). but what happened at the end of the 3 and a half years?

Answer:

Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

Stephen was the first Christian Martyr in 34 ad exactly 3 and a half years after the death of Jesus on the cross. it was at this time that Saul was called by God and the gospel then went out to the gentiles.

The time of the Jewish nation being the chose of God had ended. yes there are Jews that are being saved. but no longer are they the nation of God. This prophecy was fulfilled exactly. God is in control.

Another reason it is important to understand this prophecy is because it shows us that end time Israel which means overcomer. is not about literal Israel but rather the true church of God which is Jew and gentile alike. but that is a hole other study.

this has not been an exhaustive study on the subject. you will notice i did not explain everything in the texts but rather focused on the main point. This prophecy is already fulfilled. blessings all may God bless you in your getting to know Him better.
bump.....

if you've got dispensational presuppositions there's nothing anyone can say.

we've been through this so many times EG:

so according to your presuppositions, all national israel will be saved during the future 1,000 years and will possess earthly jerusalem and palestine for all eternity, correct?

even Abraham understood the difference EG:

Hebrews 13:14
For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#28
bump.....

if you've got dispensational presuppositions there's nothing anyone can say.

we've been through this so many times EG:

so according to your presuppositions, all national israel will be saved during the future 1,000 years and will possess earthly jerusalem and palestine for all eternity, correct?

even Abraham understood the difference EG:

Hebrews 13:14
For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come.
Sorry sis,

Yes we have been over this so many times.

Your timeline does not add up. Your sequence of events do not add up. Nothing adds up when we look at it your way.

I can't twist scripture. and make Gabriel say something he did not say just to make my doctrines come true.


as for the "all isreal" No one claimed all Isreal will be saved for the 1000 years. Only that "All Israel" will repent and be saved. Just as the end of leviticus 26, and Paul in romans 11 state. And these will ENTER the mellinial reign. Then again. All who enter this period will be saved, Jew or not jew. As revlations clearly states. God wipes out all evil at Armageddon. No one who is NOT SAVED is left alive at this time.

None of it claims they will continue to follow God and some will not turn away. Again your twisting meanings, and making me say things I never claimed.

Then again, Your trying to set me equal to other nut case premillenialists and dispensationalists. And not trying to find out what it is I actually believe.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#29
as for the "all isreal" No one claimed all Isreal will be saved for the 1000 years. Only that "All Israel" will repent and be saved. Just as the end of leviticus 26, and Paul in romans 11 state. And these will ENTER the mellinial reign. Then again. All who enter this period will be saved, Jew or not jew. As revlations clearly states. God wipes out all evil at Armageddon. No one who is NOT SAVED is left alive at this time.
.
but you can't have it both ways: is all of flesh israel who gets saved (whether all means all or not) the ones who actually dwell in Jerusalem and Palestine forever according to the land promise?

where are the gentile christians?

EG: i read what you write, so i think i know what you believe. i'm not painting you as a nut or anything else.
but your presuppositions are identical to dispensational theology....GAPS. postponement. a future 1,000 years. israel blinded somehow for 2000 because they goofed at the first Advent and saved later etc.

you said Daniel 9 is not fulfilled. this is unbiblical, and only dispensationalists (whether you call yourself one or not) and unbelieving jews think that.

ttyl.
love you
z
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#30
but you can't have it both ways: is all of flesh israel who gets saved (whether all means all or not) the ones who actually dwell in Jerusalem and Palestine forever according to the land promise?
See here you go again. Who claimed the only people on earth will be in palestine? And who claimed only those of natural isreal will be in palestine. There were gentiles (however few) in palestine all through the OT why not then??


where are the gentile christians?
Where they have always been, Wherever they live, In palestine, or in europe.. who cares. we know they will be there. Just like in OT times, when there are more Israel Christians than Gentiles. thus why God gave his "light" back to the israelites, because the gentiles as a majority worker left God. Just as prophesied.

EG: i read what you write, so i think i know what you believe. i'm not painting you as a nut or anything else.
Yet you keep making comments which does not fit what I believe.,


but your presuppositions are identical to dispensational theology....GAPS. postponement. a future 1,000 years. israel blinded somehow for 2000 because they goofed at the first Advent and saved later etc.
Yet your belief has gaps. God spoke of a literal 1000 years. So why would I not take him at his word? who said they are blinded for 200 years? It may be 3000 years. Even then. there are saved people who are Israel today. We are not talking about induviduals, but a nation.

In the time of Israel of the OT, where gentiles not saved? Were they "Israel" because they were saved? No. Israel was given Gods things, and SUPPOSED to share with the world. they failed. And it was given to the gentiles.

When God speaks of the "time of Israel" and "time of gentiles" he is not talking about who is saved, he is talking about who is given the oracles of God, and responsability to share it with the world.

you said Daniel 9 is not fulfilled. this is unbiblical, and only dispensationalists (whether you call yourself one or not) and unbelieving jews think that.

ttyl.
love you
z
It is not fulfilled. I have proven it. Whether you see it or not.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#31
Luke 24:44-45

"And He said to them, these are the words which I spake unto you while I was yet with you, that All things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the Prophets, and in the Psalms, concerning Me."
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#32
Luke 24:44-45

"And He said to them, these are the words which I spake unto you while I was yet with you, that All things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the Prophets, and in the Psalms, concerning Me."
Thats great.

Daniel 9 was not concerning Christ. it was concerning daniels prayer for HIS PEOPLE. (Israel) and his city (Jerusalem) as per the covenant of moses, not abraham!

The only aspect of Daniel 9 which has to deal with Christ is at the end of the 69th week. "messiah the prince"

The rest has to deal with Daniels people, the NATURAL Children of Abraham, or the covenant made between God and Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Which has nothing to do with any gentile, saved or not saved!

Daniels prayer:

13 “As it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us; yet we have not made our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities and understand Your truth. 14 Therefore the LORD has kept the disaster in mind, and brought it upon us; for the LORD our God is righteous in all the works which He does, though we have not obeyed His voice. 15 And now, O Lord our God, who brought Your people out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and made Yourself a name, as it is this day—we have sinned, we have done wickedly!
16 “O Lord, according to all Your righteousness, I pray, let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people are a reproach to all those around us. 17 Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake cause Your face to shine on Your sanctuary, which is desolate. 18 O my God, incline Your ear and hear; open Your eyes and see our desolations, and the city which is called by Your name; for we do not present our supplications before You because of our righteous deeds, but because of Your great mercies. 19 O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and act! Do not delay for Your own sake, my God, for Your city and Your people are called by Your name.”

Gabriels answer was concerning this prayer, and this prayer only! All interpretations should make Gabrie;ls prophesy concerning The city, and the people. Not anything else.
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#33
The covenant of the seed "In You Shall ALL THE NATIONS be blessed" speak about one aspect of the covenant God made with abraham. in Which God promised that out of his seed shall come a redeemer which will bless all nations. This is the "Salvic" aspect of Gods covenant with abraham. And should be kept separate from the "national" aspects of his covenant. which were only given to his "blood, or physical descendants"


OK so part of the covenant that God made with Abraham is for the promised seed who would bring salvation for all
Genesis 12:3
(3) And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Another part of the covenant is that God promised the land to his seed which Abraham viewed as the new earth
Genesis 17:8
(8) And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Hebrews 11:8-10
(8) By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
(9) By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
(10) For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Galatians 3:29
(29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


So to put these two together the covenant teaches that through Christ we can inherit the new earth, do you agree with this?


 
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A

Abiding

Guest
#34
Thats great.

Daniel 9 was not concerning Christ. it was concerning daniels prayer for HIS PEOPLE. (Israel) and his city (Jerusalem) as per the covenant of moses, not abraham!

The only aspect of Daniel 9 which has to deal with Christ is at the end of the 69th week. "messiah the prince"

The rest has to deal with Daniels people, the NATURAL Children of Abraham, or the covenant made between God and Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Which has nothing to do with any gentile, saved or not saved!

Daniels prayer:

13 “As it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us; yet we have not made our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities and understand Your truth. 14 Therefore the LORD has kept the disaster in mind, and brought it upon us; for the LORD our God is righteous in all the works which He does, though we have not obeyed His voice. 15 And now, O Lord our God, who brought Your people out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and made Yourself a name, as it is this day—we have sinned, we have done wickedly!
16 “O Lord, according to all Your righteousness, I pray, let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people are a reproach to all those around us. 17 Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake cause Your face to shine on Your sanctuary, which is desolate. 18 O my God, incline Your ear and hear; open Your eyes and see our desolations, and the city which is called by Your name; for we do not present our supplications before You because of our righteous deeds, but because of Your great mercies. 19 O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and act! Do not delay for Your own sake, my God, for Your city and Your people are called by Your name.”

Gabriels answer was concerning this prayer, and this prayer only! All interpretations should make Gabrie;ls prophesy concerning The city, and the people. Not anything else.
Joshua 21:43-44

"And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it and dwelt therein.
And the Lord gave them Rest round about, according to all that He sware unto their fathers, and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; and the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand.
There failed not ought of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the House of Israel, All came to pass"
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#35
OK so part of the covenant that God made with Abraham is for the promised seed who would bring salvation for all
Genesis 12:3
(3) And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Another part of the covenant is that God promised the land to his seed which Abraham viewed as the new earth
Genesis 17:8
(8) And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Hebrews 11:8-10
(8) By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
(9) By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
(10) For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

So to put these two together the covenant teaches that through Christ we can inherit the new earth, do you agree with this?


No.

1. Abraham was not a stranger to the new earth
2. Abraham was actually shown the land he would be given.

Gen 12: 1
1 Now the LORD had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.

Gen 12: 6-7
6 Abram passed through the land to the place of Shechem, as far as the terebinth tree of Moreh.[a] And the Canaanites were then in the land.
7 Then the LORD appeared to Abram and said, “To your descendants I will give this land.” And there he built an altar to the LORD, who had appeared to him

Gen 13:
14 And the LORD said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: “Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are—northward, southward, eastward, and westward; 15 for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants[b] forever. 16 And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then your descendants also could be numbered. 17 Arise, walk in the land through its length and its width, for I give it to you.”

This was a physical land Abraham saw and walked on. Not a future kingdom or earth.

again. lev 26 shows what Isreal had to do to posses the land God gave to them. If they obeyed him, they would live in it in peace, if they went against him. God would punish them, even destroying the land and make it desolate. But he promised if even after this they repent. he would bring them back.

this is not a future earth, this is a land on earth today.
 
Oct 2, 2011
416
3
0
#36


Daniel 9 was not concerning Christ.
This is an absolute false statement. Daniel 9 is about Jesus. the prophecy starting in Daniel 9:24 and ending with verse 27 is about the coming Messiah as clearly stated in verses 24 itself.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.



If you believe Daniel 9 is about anyone but Jesus then you have a distorted view of this prophecy, who the anointed one is, who Jesus is.
 
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Abiding

Guest
#37
what a slippery bunch...cant pin down a thing.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#38
OK so part of the covenant that God made with Abraham is for the promised seed who would bring salvation for all
Genesis 12:3
(3) And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Another part of the covenant is that God promised the land to his seed which Abraham viewed as the new earth
Genesis 17:8
(8) And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Hebrews 11:8-10
(8) By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
(9) By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
(10) For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Galatians 3:29
(29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


So to put these two together the covenant teaches that through Christ we can inherit the new earth, do you agree with this?


Something to remember. Abraham knew he would never posses the land in HIS LIFETIME. But he did not care (God said his children would not posses it until after their captivity) Because he looked toward the eternal land. which we all should look for.

He never thought God would not give his children the "literal land" he promised.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#39
Joshua 21:43-44

"And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it and dwelt therein.
And the Lord gave them Rest round about, according to all that He sware unto their fathers, and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; and the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand.
There failed not ought of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the House of Israel, All came to pass"
As I told Zone and others.

THE PROMISE WAS AN ETERNAL PROMISE. Just because they possesed it for a short time does not mean the covenant was fulfilled. IT IS THERS FOREVER. MEANING IT IS THERS TODAY.

they do not posses it because of the curse of lev 26. But it is STILL THEIRS.


Forever does not stop just because something which is said to be given to someone just happened to be fulfilled.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#40
No.

1. Abraham was not a stranger to the new earth
2. Abraham was actually shown the land he would be given.

Gen 12: 1
1 Now the LORD had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.

Gen 12: 6-7
6 Abram passed through the land to the place of Shechem, as far as the terebinth tree of Moreh.[a] And the Canaanites were then in the land.
7 Then the LORD appeared to Abram and said, “To your descendants I will give this land.” And there he built an altar to the LORD, who had appeared to him

Gen 13:
14 And the LORD said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: “Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are—northward, southward, eastward, and westward; 15 for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants[b] forever. 16 And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then your descendants also could be numbered. 17 Arise, walk in the land through its length and its width, for I give it to you.”

This was a physical land Abraham saw and walked on. Not a future kingdom or earth.

again. lev 26 shows what Isreal had to do to posses the land God gave to them. If they obeyed him, they would live in it in peace, if they went against him. God would punish them, even destroying the land and make it desolate. But he promised if even after this they repent. he would bring them back.

this is not a future earth, this is a land on earth today.
So are you saying that you don't agree with this? .So to put these two together the covenant teaches that through Christ we can inherit the new earth, do you agree with this?