Alcohol ??

[rauleetoe]

"Wine" is "the razor's edge"
The acceptable apex on the quest for any pleasure, the final product of the vine.

Every man must know how much "wine" he can drink without crossing the "edge".
A buzz that is reached and even maintained is that edge. Once you cross over into actual drunkeness, you have crossed the line, and will receive a witness to that fact, in that you will either suffer from doing something stupid, have a hangover, get sick, etc.

I believe just the desire for wine also presents the same "line in the sand" effect, in that even if you don't get drunk, if you yearn for the daily drink to the point that you "can't do without it" and act crazy to get it, you have also seen the line.

Matthew 26:27 has been translated as "drink of it, all of you" when it should be "drink of it, all of it"
One wine that we are allowed (commissioned even) to cross the line and get drunk on, His cry for our salvation.

If you can police yourself on that "it's time to stop" line with alcohol, video games, body building, whatever... You're good to go.
Otherwise, all of those things are drunkenness, too much "wine"

Peace.

Good stuff..exactly..i mean, why try to be religious about not attempting to look religious,and with this freedom,you become an alcoholic..you make someone else fall back into alcoholism..or if nothing else, you ruin your christian witness! So, all this talk about trying to take things into 'context' i am afraid may be a vehement fight for one's own freedom and liberty..but if our lives are truly set apart for Christ, like it says in the scriptures..all things are permitted, but all things are not beneficial..
1 corinthians 6:12, 1 corinthians 10:23-24(emphasis verse 24) Let no one seek his own good and advantage and profit..but rather let him seek the welfare of his neighbor..

As far as those who keep on flaunting their freedoms(so it seems like it)
While you are 'permitted' to have a drink..is it best for the welfare of your christian brother/sister whom you are to die to self for and look to his and her best interest? Is your liberty to drink a glass of wine far more important than being like Christ to your brother and to your sister? You decide..

 

[rauleetoe]

Everyone here is talking about alcohol as if there is no such thing as addiction, but it is always a matter of choice. Science has found that there is a sickness of addiction. Sometimes scientist get carried away with their own intelligence, but usually science is just a matter of discovering how God created our world and how it operates. As Christians we must face the fact that there is sickness in our world.

My son is an alcoholic who drinks. My Father was an alcoholic who never drank any alcohol at all, not because he thought it wrong but because he found that he could not control his drinking if he ever had even a small amount. My son would never go to a bar or live an alcoholic lifestyle. He teaches an adult bible class and loves the Lord. Most people who know him do not know he drinks excessively; he is very ashamed of it.

I don’t think we can talk intelligently about alcohol without adding into the equation that there is addiction.

And this is what I want for people to avoid..if you never have a drink..you cannot become addicted..why even test the waters and see if you will become an addict or not?

Do not get me wrong..i love the taste of beer, but i know that my family has a history of alcoholism..my twin brother might possibly be one,and i do recall bad judgements i have made drinking, even sadly with those who flaunted their freedom in the Lord to 'have a drink'..
I have had to avoid some christians who do not seem to understand my wanting to abstain..its not that God removed the desire to drink, i still want to..but this is not about me. My life is not my own anymore..its about dying to self.

 

[BarlyGurl]

Everyone here is talking about alcohol as if there is no such thing as addiction, but it is always a matter of choice. Science has found that there is a sickness of addiction. Sometimes scientist get carried away with their own intelligence, but usually science is just a matter of discovering how God created our world and how it operates. As Christians we must face the fact that there is sickness in our world.

My son is an alcoholic who drinks. My Father was an alcoholic who never drank any alcohol at all, not because he thought it wrong but because he found that he could not control his drinking if he ever had even a small amount. My son would never go to a bar or live an alcoholic lifestyle. He teaches an adult bible class and loves the Lord. Most people who know him do not know he drinks excessively; he is very ashamed of it.

I don’t think we can talk intelligently about alcohol without adding into the equation that there is addiction.

everyone who knows about this drinking alcoholic... is participating in his sin by covering it. He should be leading NO ONE...feeling ashamed is not the same as repentance.

 

[resurrection33]

I use to be addicted to alcohol, before I came to Christ. I realized that alcohol was my idol. For a short time I'd quite than cut down to just wine. I still drink causally. Am I wrong for doing so? I'd like to just give up completely but, to honest I don't. Can someone help me this issue? Thx :/

I think it’s okay to drink a little, but I think it’s better not to drink at all.

 

[layman316]

everyone who knows about this drinking alcoholic... is participating in his sin by covering it. He should be leading NO ONE...feeling ashamed is not the same as repentance.

After reading through the responses it is clear that people are inserting their own thoughts into what was said and not reading what was said. A careful reading of the post, you will notice that alcohol isn't the real issue, at least not in the way the post was worded.

I use to be addicted to alcohol, before I came to Christ. I realized that alcohol was my idol. For a short time I'd quite than cut down to just wine. I still drink causally. Am I wrong for doing so? I'd like to just give up completely but, to honest I don't. Can someone help me this issue? Thx :/

Let me break it down for you.

I use to be addicted to alcohol.

This is why I asked the person to define what he/she meant by addicted. I don't see that this person had a drinking problem per say, but a problem with putting drinking before God (the reason for making it an idol). The same can be said about watch TV, video games, discussion forums....etc.

I still drink causally. Am I wrong for doing so?

The answer is NO.

 

[layman316]

And this is what I want for people to avoid..if you never have a drink..you cannot become addicted..why even test the waters and see if you will become an addict or not?

Do not get me wrong..i love the taste of beer, but i know that my family has a history of alcoholism..my twin brother might possibly be one,and i do recall bad judgements i have made drinking, even sadly with those who flaunted their freedom in the Lord to 'have a drink'..
I have had to avoid some christians who do not seem to understand my wanting to abstain..its not that God removed the desire to drink, i still want to..but this is not about me. My life is not my own anymore..its about dying to self.

If you never watch TV you can never become addicted,
If you never ate food you can never become addicted.
If you never played a video game you can never become addicted.
If you never .... get my point?
You all have made the issue about alcohol and not the real issue of putting things before God. Alcohol is not the real issue here.

 

[BarlyGurl]

After reading through the responses it is clear that people are inserting their own thoughts into what was said and not reading what was said. A careful reading of the post, you will notice that alcohol isn't the real issue, at least not in the way the post was worded.



Let me break it down for you.

This is why I asked the person to define what he/she meant by addicted. I don't see that this person had a drinking problem per say, but a problem with putting drinking before God (the reason for making it an idol). The same can be said about watch TV, video games, discussion forums....etc.



The answer is NO.

Thanks for clarifying... but the post of mine you quoted... was directed at REDTENT not the OP. If you scroll up the thread... you will notice... I previously told the OP they were not sinning. Thanks but in this case... I wasn't missing anything and didn't need a breakdown to improve my understanding at all... and it isn't very helpful for the audience to be confused over which post is the actual subject of your remark and mine... as they differ.

 

[layman316]

Thanks for clarifying... but the post of mine you quoted... was directed at REDTENT not the OP. If you scroll up the thread... you will notice... I previously told the OP they were not sinning. Thanks but in this case... I wasn't missing anything and didn't need a breakdown to improve my understanding at all... and it isn't very helpful for the audience to be confused over which post is the actual subject of your remark and mine... as they differ.

I apologize if I misunderstood what you said. I based my response off this statement.

everyone who knows about this drinking alcoholic... is participating in his sin by covering it.

I assumed that "his sins" was referring to the originator of the thread, and that I was participating in it by knowing "about this drinking alcoholic."

 

[psychomom]

Matthew 26:27 has been translated as "drink of it, all of you" when it should be "drink of it, all of it"

That's something I hadn't seen before.

Thanks!
-ellie

 

[layman316]

Matthew 26:27 has been translated as "drink of it, all of you" when it should be "drink of it, all of it"
One wine that we are allowed (commissioned even) to cross the line and get drunk on, His cry for our salvation.

Not according to the Greek word autos. The word is used here as a "personal pronoun." Which is why the modern translations use the word "you."



Strong's: ow-tos'
From the particle αὖ au (perhaps akin to the base of G109 through the idea of a baffling wind; backward); the reflexive pronoun self, used (alone or in the compound of G1438) of the third person, and (with the proper personal pronoun) of the other persons: - her, it (-self), one, the other, (mine) own, said, ([self-], the) same, ([him-, my-, thy-]) self, [your-] selves, she, that, their (-s), them ([-selves]), there [-at, -by, -in, -into, -of, -on, -with], they, (these) things, this (man), those, together, very, which. Compare G848.



Albert Barnes: Drink ye all of it - That is, "all of you, disciples, drink of it;" not, "drink all the wine."

 

[WolfInOxHide]

Autos can be a you or an it, single or plural. The text I'm going by says

Πίετε : drink
ἐξ : out of
αὐτοῦ : it
πάντες : the whole

αὐτοῦ refers to the wine, because one cannot "drink out of you"
πάντες refers to the wine, because no other target is given in the phrase.
A more comfortable structure would have been for Him to say "drink all of you from it", if that were the statement.

Compare in same chapter, same author:
πάντες : the whole (all)
πάντες ὑμεῖς : the whole you (all of you)

However, digging in the greek is not what brought this discrepancy to me.
It is the understanding that "all pieces" of the "blood" must be drunk.
Blood is the word given to early man to represent "the cry of salvation"
When you get cut, the first thing that flashes into your mind is "this must be stopped!"
"somebody help!"
In the creation of language, there must initially be an external shareable object (an image) to represent any internal (mental / emotional / spiritual) concept. I, a simple and early man, have no language mechanic to explain "cry out for help" without actually screaming, except to use the best example of visible hard to stop bleeding.
If I then grasp my head with both hands, grimace, and say "blood!", the other person can know what I'm trying to say, that I'm bleeding spiritually, "inside my head"
Our blood is often for ourselves or just loved ones.
His blood is for the whole world. It must all be drunk.

Peace.

 

[WolfInOxHide]

To the topic though, OP, I believe if you were sitting in a tranquil environment with Jesus and asked Him if you were sinning with an occasional drink, I believe He would say something like "okay, let's put it to rest, consider all the arguments, consider your intent, consider the effects, in all truth and, what do you say?"

And I believe if you were once addicted, no longer are because of Christ, AND can drink a glass a day, then you seem to be exhibiting kingship over your life, in His name.
Knowing no more about it than I do, I would call it a victory from my point of view.

Peace.

 

[rauleetoe]

If you never watch TV you can never become addicted,
If you never ate food you can never become addicted.
If you never played a video game you can never become addicted.
If you never .... get my point?
You all have made the issue about alcohol and not the real issue of putting things before God. Alcohol is not the real issue here.

Oh but it can be an issue, let us not become overly permissive and flaunt our freedom for the sake of proclaiming we are free without realizing that all things are permitted..but not all things are beneficial..is drinking beneficial? Hardly..lets not minimize the effects of drunk driving..the risk of falling and sinning when your inhibitions are lowered by alcohol..the other rammifications involved as well..such as getting in a fight..a misunderstanding that most likely would have never been if you were not drinking..

So let's not become so darn religious about being religious for the sake of not being labeled a legalist, and let's live for God and be carefull about how we live our lives! It does matter..people watch you..you can say you love God all you want, but if you are going to the bar, or the strip club..etc. because going only a little bit does not make you an addict..what good are you doing to those whom you are trying to convey the gospel message to you? Will they not call you out for what you are? A fake?

Is any amount of alcohol going to help you spiritually in your walk? So why do you keep on attempting to justify it? I do not understand.

 

[Nautilus]

actually drinking can be beneficial...doctors have shown that a certain amount of red wine a day is very healthy for your heart

 

[Laodicea]

actually drinking can be beneficial...doctors have shown that a certain amount of red wine a day is very healthy for your heart

It is not the alcohol that contains nutrients it is the grape juice. So why not drink grape juice instead? Alcohol is poisonous and does not contain any nutrients at all.

 

[Nautilus]

It is not the alcohol that contains nutrients it is the grape juice. So why not drink grape juice instead? Alcohol is poisonous and does not contain any nutrients at all.

Grape juice is gross?

 

[Laodicea]

Grape juice is gross?

It is the grape juice in red wine that has the goodness not the alcohol. Grape juice to me is good.

 

[weakness]

I just wanted to add something I feel in relation to your statement that alcohol was an idol for you,or something like that.I WOULD THINK IT MORE CORRECT THAT YOU ARE MAKING YOURSELF THE IDOL.After all your drinking is for you not the alcohol(I was heavily into alcohol before) I drank to alter my state, to give myself a false sense of pleasure and acceptance.None of this was done for the alcohols benefit. I think it very similar to when the scripture calls covetousness idolatry. A coveting person isn't so much worshiping what he covets ,but himself ,or his own desires and pleasures A covetous person is worshiping himself. Kinda like "sitting in the temple of God(our bodies) shewing that we are God. Any way God bless and hope this might help with your predicament . Seek the Lord he is always faithful.

 

[starfield]

I use to be addicted to alcohol, before I came to Christ. I realized that alcohol was my idol. For a short time I'd quite than cut down to just wine. I still drink causally. Am I wrong for doing so? I'd like to just give up completely but, to honest I don't. Can someone help me this issue? Thx :/

For a recovering alcoholic to drink occasionally is probably not a good idea. You don't want to fall into the ditch again. Grape juice is a good substitute.

 

[rauleetoe]

It is not the alcohol that contains nutrients it is the grape juice. So why not drink grape juice instead? Alcohol is poisonous and does not contain any nutrients at all.

Yup..welch's or whatever brand you prefer..because we all know it does not say in ephesians 5:18 be not drunk with Welch's, wherein is excess..