The Problem with " saved by grace..."

[sabaqtani7]

That's right.

Now if it was God's plan and purpose that all are saved, then predestination is correct because we are all predestined for Glory, but unfortunately for many, unrepented sin comes between us and God?

Well, yes, it does. and I myself am guilty of unrepentant sin, in the sense that I do it willingly, even trhough opposing effort, thus my repentance is not wholly true.

This is something all people do sometimes. And this is the part of me which I shall lose then through the fire. I need that. It's gonna be a sad day. But that's the responsibility I must take if I can't stop doing what I ought not to, as Paul puts it.

It's not always easy to abstain from sinful thought even, which we know in itself is sin. 'He who hates his brother commits murder in his heart' ...

All people are guilty of many sins that we can't either control, or don't even realise!!

 

[zone]

You know what Zone, it says more about your heart than mine, that you cannot be content living a life for our God which pleases him, that you must continually dismiss and evade any form of opinion of your own, for the sake of stamping on others'.

I am glad you'll be in heaven though, just as you believe you will, and that the purpose of your heart will be revealed to you. Because God is the only person with enough power to give you the insight you require.

 

[sabaqtani7]

I actually lol'd at this .. Thanks for that. Laugh a day keeps the doctor away.

 

[JLHillsSr]

Hbr 9:26 KJV - For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

This verse does not say that he showed up to take away sin. It appears that he took away sin. Look around. Sin is still here. Iniquity is the key here.

Look at this verse:

Gen 4:7 KJV - If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

It was the iniquity in Cains heart to do harm to Abel that got the attention of God. He stepped in to try to convince Cain not to kill his brother. The SIN.

Jam 1:15 KJV - Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Iniquity is subdued when it is given to God.
We are all created perfect in God's eye. Even Lucifer. But what happened?

Eze 28:15 KJV - Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

NO INIQUITY. NO SIN.

If iniquity is given to God, and forgotten, there will be no sin.

fyi: Inquity is found 278 times in the King James Bible.

 

[zone]

I actually lol'd at this .. Thanks for that. Laugh a day keeps the doctor away.

lol....might keep the dr. away.
but 1Stillwaters is around
ttyl.

 

[PS]

Well, yes, it does. and I myself am guilty of unrepentant sin, in the sense that I do it willingly, even trhough opposing effort, thus my repentance is not wholly true.

This is something all people do sometimes. And this is the part of me which I shall lose then through the fire. I need that. It's gonna be a sad day. But that's the responsibility I must take if I can't stop doing what I ought not to, as Paul puts it.

It's not always easy to abstain from sinful thought even, which we know in itself is sin. 'He who hates his brother commits murder in his heart' ...

All people are guilty of many sins that we can't either control, or don't even realise!!

It gets easier as you get older believe you me, I'm not tempted half as much as I used to be, but I'm not sure if temptation is wrong, isn't it the giving in to temptation that is the 'sin.'

 

[sabaqtani7]

lol....might keep the dr. away.
but 1Stillwaters is around
ttyl.

McReligion at its finest ..

 

[sabaqtani7]

It gets easier as you get older believe you me, I'm not tempted half as much as I used to be, but I'm not sure if temptation is wrong, isn't it the giving in to temptation that is the 'sin.'

Well, technically speaking. But I suppose if we let our minds 'indulge' in the thought, then we're kind of shooting ourselves in the foot a little ...

 

[PS]

Hbr 9:26 KJV - For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

This verse does not say that he showed up to take away sin. It appears that he took away sin. Look around. Sin is still here. Iniquity is the key here.

Look at this verse:

Gen 4:7 KJV - If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

It was the iniquity in Cains heart to do harm to Abel that got the attention of God. He stepped in to try to convince Cain not to kill his brother. The SIN.

Jam 1:15 KJV - Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Iniquity is subdued when it is given to God.
We are all created perfect in God's eye. Even Lucifer. But what happened?

Eze 28:15 KJV - Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

NO INIQUITY. NO SIN.

If iniquity is given to God, and forgotten, there will be no sin.

fyi: Inquity is found 278 times in the King James Bible.

I can see I need to study iniquity in the context of scripture.

 

[PS]

Well, technically speaking. But I suppose if we let our minds 'indulge' in the thought, then we're kind of shooting ourselves in the foot a little ...

We can't go shooting ourselves in the foot can we

But we can say get the behind me Satan.

 

[PS]

McReligion at its finest ..

I have yet to meet this guy.

 

[sabaqtani7]

We can't go shooting ourselves in the foot can we

But we can say get the behind me Satan.

It's funny you should bring that verse up ..

Do you know Jesus actually used the word 'adversary' ..

Get behind me, oh person who is playing against me.

 

[zone]

I have yet to meet this guy.

seriously?
just go into profile; click country; choose [flag of choice].

you chaps are funny.
kinda.

 

[PS]

It's funny you should bring that verse up ..

Do you know Jesus actually used the word 'adversary' ..

Get behind me, oh person who is playing against me.

I didn't realise that, but Satan has many names. I can think of a few myself.

 

[sabaqtani7]

I have yet to meet this guy.

I wasn't talking about a person. Just implying that the whole 'get the mod to ban him for not having a denomination' thing is a bit precooked and packaged ...

I haven't actually said anything that I haven't read from the bible. If someone wants to dispute it, why not use rational counter-analysis of the verses I posted on the subject instead of just throwing stones?

 

[zone]

It's funny you should bring that verse up ..

Do you know Jesus actually used the word 'adversary' ..

Get behind me, oh person who is playing against me.

right.
satan is our natural man
that adversary will be burned up in the fire of love and it'll all work out in the end.

 

[PS]

seriously?
just go into profile; click country; choose [flag of choice].

you chaps are funny.
kinda.

No, I'm just dumb, I still don't understand, are you saying I'm him?

 

[sabaqtani7]

right.
satan is our natural man
that adversary will be burned up in the fire of love and it'll all work out in the end.

This is actually kinda sad .. like .. I pity you.

If you don't believe it, then don't believe it.

Zone; my religion isn't good enough for me alone. I have to condemn billions of people to eternal torment and look down laughing at them all while playing a harp and making memes ...

 

[Enow]

As God gave the commandments to Moses in the OT, God also gave the commandments as Jesus in the NT.​

Jesus's own words:

John 14:15

" If you love me, you will obey what I command."

John 14: 21

" Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me."

The New Covenant was a regulation to God's people; if you believe in the New Covenant promise, then you must also believe in Jesus Christ; and if Jesus Christ says that one who loves God truly is to follow his commands...then why do some believe there are not commands to be followed?

What commandments are necessary to keep in order to receive the Holy Ghost?

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

So these commandments cannot be everything Jesus has taught because we are still required to keep them in order to receive the Holy Ghost so what commandments was Jesus talking about in order to receive the promise of the permanent indwelling Spirit?

That is what the topic is in context in relation to those commandments.

As something as important as this, Jesus would tell us, so let us read back to the beginning and see what those actual commandments are.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me....10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Those are the commandments that Jesus was talking about in order to receive the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost. Jesus was not talking about every other commandment He has given, otherwise, we would not receive the promise of the permament indwelling Holy Ghost then because we are to continually keep everything Jesus has taught in order to receive the Holy Ghost so that can't be it.

It is by believing in Him are the commandments Jesus was talking about here in chapter 14 in order to receive the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost.

Ephesians 1: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

By having Jesus Christ in us, now we have power in living the christian life in following Him which is done by faith in the Son of God in us as it is not we who live, but Christ Who lives in us, having no confidence in our religious flesh nor in our zeal for Him.

We are to follow Jesus by faith, looking to Him to help us to follow Him, not to ourselves in doing the best we can like a religious person in keeping His commandments. We are in a reconciled relationship of trust where even the little children are free to come to Him: not another religion wherein men can boast.

So we are saved by grace and how we live the christian life is by the grace of God as well which is why it is written that the just shall live by faith.

His commandments in the NT which are higher than the works of the law is what we are entrusting Jesus as our Good Shepherd to do His workmanship in our lives, and guess what? To live the christian life in following Him still rests on believing in Him.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:....9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

So the next time you teach His commandments, tell them to look to Him & trust Him in them to help them keep them.

That is the difference between the Old Covenant & the New Covenant is that in the New Covenant, He will do it since man has failed in the Old Covenant. This is God's turn now which is to His glory in Christ Jesus.

So when believers talk about living in sin, they need to know that Jesus has made a promise to deliver them from living in sin and that they should take Him at His word.

More often times than not, it is the former religious christians that are making rationalizations for something they had failed to do, but yet would like to believe that their zeal for Him makes living in sin okay when it does not, since we are to walk in the light as He has walked so that we may continue in His love to bear fruit and that our joy may be full.

Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

There is no problem with being saved by grace, but that is not the full gospel when we are to live by that same grace by believing in Him in living that reconciled relationship with God THROUGH Jesus Christ. That is why Jesus Christ is the Good News to man.

 

[zone]

Zone; my religion isn't good enough for me alone. I have to condemn billions of people to eternal torment and look down laughing at them all while playing a harp and making memes ...

i can't help you with that. you've been shown over and over.

but please leave Christ out of your religion.
can you do that? or take it up with the True Christ.

do you have a suitable explanation for why Jesus didn't go into detail about the Pharisees emerging from the fire later? show me purgatory in Scripture.


Matthew 23:33
"You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

Mark 9:43
And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.

asbestos: unquenched, unquenchable
Original Word: ἄσβεστος, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: asbestos
Phonetic Spelling: (as'-bes-tos)
Short Definition: inextinguishable, unquenchable
Definition: inextinguishable, unquenchable.


does He say the fire goes out at some point and ppl emerge from hell/fire?
even if you want to have the fire go out and go for annihilationism, does Jesus here give these men any indication they will enter the Kingdom?


Matthew 23:13
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.


anyways.
later