So faith without works is dead also.

[Tommy4Christ]

So faith without works is dead also.​

But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[SUP][f][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? [SUP]23 [/SUP]And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]g[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] And he was called the friend of God. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.(James 2-20-26)…
Today faith as described in the word of God has taken on many different forms that can easily confuse anyone truly searching for truth. Faith has been so very misrepresented by many well-meaning and not so well meaning Bible teachers and scholars that there are many false and dangerous teachings on this simple act of obedience.
As you can see from the great example set forth by Abraham and Rahab, on what a real saving faith is, it seems near impossible for anyone who has some discernment to not see how obedience and faith go hand in hand, together, two peas in a pod, and mesh as one fine oiled machine when used and put into action as an act of obedience to the commands of God.
I won’t go into every aspect of the above powerful verses, I just encourage you to read them apart from your conceived notions that you were born a sinner, totally depraved, and now faith to you is some forensic ideal that was already done when you said I accept Jesus!
Yes, faith is a work, a working faith through love, where you love God supremely as commanded, and obey His commands from a heart made pure through repentance, and obedience to the truth.
So as we can see Abraham obeyed God from his heart, for He loved God supremely, he did what God told Him to do, no questions asked, thus this obedience was imputed or put onto him as righteousness.
This blows the myth that Jesus did it all in advance, and that faith is just a passive notion that has no dynamics working behind it such as, purity, obedience, synergy (working together with God to produce something powerful together) righteousness, justified by works (deeds) and not faith alone.
But many who profess Christ today have a dead faith, either by sheer laziness or ignorance , or have sat under the repeat after me teachers, who boldly claim faith and obedience are not the same, where obedience was done for them through the provision Jesus somehow made for them, and now their faith equal’s the faith of the demons.
Abraham, Rahab, Job, Noah, Daniel, Joseph and many others God used mightily, all produced the deed or works of faith; they obeyed God from their heart, and great love and fear of His awesome power, producing a perfect upright walk with Him.
Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.
Faith is a work, we must do to please God, it’s a command not a side issue reserved only for the obedient saints in the Bible, but for all who come to Christ as commanded, by faith, with an obedient heart, that can only come through real repentance and faith proven by deeds!
So the next time you want to scream “It’s not of works” remember to be very sure you know what works the word of God is talking about, as clearly portrayed and lived out by Abraham, and many others God declared righteous by their working obedient faith!
To sum this us:
Faith is not passive; it is active, alive and ongoing!
Faith is a work, from the heart that obeys as commanded!
Faith is pleasing to the Lord, in fact He commands all His saints to walk by it, everyday!
Faith=Obedience!
Faith is imputed as righteousness to those who obey God!
Faith purifies the heart, made pure through repentance and clearing of wrong doing!
Faith can become shipwrecked by disobeying God, and following the flesh over the spirit!
There are many more strong examples of faith working through love in the word of God, many have read them and have gotten inspired by them, but the main concern is where your faith is?
In something that never happened, or a working, dynamic, obedient faith as laid out by many brave and godly men and women in the word of God!
And remember IF any of these men or women decided to disobey God, then God would have choose someone else to work with Him, as He is no respecter of persons, but His mercy and kindness is bestowed on the righteous, or the ones who are declared righteous by obeying Him through their heart, keeping His commands, and working together with Him to be counted worthy of their calling on the narrow road!
Act 15:9 And He put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith ((obedience).
Obedience matters, but it’s a free will choice God has given us, where He tests His saints to see if they are real, genuine, walking in the spirit, living a crucified life unto Him, obeying His commands each and every day, knowing that they can become disqualified IF they turn away from Him, seeking to obey their flesh and the many false doctrine’s that teach faith is already done for you in advanced, and any disobedience to God is just a speed bump, not a road block leading to spiritual death!
Tommy 1-29-13

 

[Geometar]

Yes,Faith without works is DEAD.

 

[crossnote]

and work's which are pleasing to God without faith is impossible.We do good works out of thankfulness not to merit brownie points.

 

[Geometar]

Yes,works without Faith is nothing.

 

[GreenNnice]

FAith without works is like making love, out of nothing at all. Dare I then say 'impossible,' because it sure is impossible to 'make love' out of nothing at all. * Green very proud of His air supply in him this morning, it just sings with wicked sarcastic truth. But, it's Truth, and, He is The Way, The Life, and, don't you EVER forget, Christ peeps, don't EVER let Satan feed you His lies enough to think that you men can SIN and get away with it, you CAN'T , no way, no how, NOTHING about you can defeat Satan. Just like you Eves, don't EVER think that you have the power to stand up to SATAN, you are only deceiving yourself. Satan is head and shoulders above YOU, but, you, thank God, yes, thank Him, HAVE the power in you who CAN defeat the Enemy now as the sin of your life DEADENS you and you better believe it takes what?


What T4C say in his title of this thread, that's what. That's what? Faith !!!!! You are good as DEAD if you don't got faith, because we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH, and, THAT (faith) is NOT of yourselves. Don't believe foolishness, sure, all THREE save us, God's grace on the cross, and, salvation is OBVIOUSLY not of ourselves, and, EVERY Christian knows THAT. But, the FAITH NOT OF THEMSELVES, it is easy to LOVE to think NOTHING AT ALL of that . Don't EVER do that, Christ peeps, He is love, and, THROUGH FAITH, following His Helper's holy-spirit (used as an adjective) lead is what we are to do in life. It's sooooo simple !!!! Let Him lead, ACCEPT His leading, whether it's tithing to church, and, REMEMBER, the 10% rule, but you follow Him ! Money is such a trip for people, it's not a chemical drug, but you better believe its something that gets us HIGH. We COVET it, don't we ?

Admit it !! OK, I do. I love money. But, I do NOT root it in my life, it is simply WHAT God's given me to make 'Love' (helping others and helping myself love Him more, I mean by this 'Love' word) out of what otherwise would be.....


....nothing at all.

God bless us all as we 'love' to give our EVERYTHING to Him

 

[Geometar]

Faith Alone and Faith and Works
in the Scriptures
An Orthodox Christian Approach

For you all,please,read this.It isn't long,but can tell u a lot.

http://www.stpaulsirvine.org/pdf/Faith%20Alone%20and%20Faith%20and%20Works.pdf

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Faith saves us, we are justified by faith apart from works (of any kind) However, those who have true faith (as apposed to those who have mere belief) will show works. It is our work (fruit) which proves we had saving faith to begin with. but we were not saved by doing those works. we do them because we are already saved.

people who use this passage to try to prove we are saved by faith PLUS works are taking it completely out of context. james did not say if you had saving faith but fall in doing your works you will lose salvation. he said clearly, if you CLAIM TO HAVE FAITH (making a claim you are saved) BUT HAVE NO WORK, your faith is DEAD. can a dead faith save you? NO! it is mere belief, even demons believe yet tremble.

do not fall as many into thinking this passage is showing we must add our works to faith to be saved, or to keep salvation, and that lack of work or falling away from work will cause you to lose salvation. for this is a lie straight from the mouth of satan.

 

[zone]

Ephesians 2:10
For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

this is either true or not true.
whose workmanship are we?
created in whom?
to do what?
who prepared us, and the works we will do?
what works are they?


Isaiah 43:7
everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made."

Ephesians 2:7
so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

1 Timothy 1:16
But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.

Psalm 149:1
Praise the LORD. Sing to the LORD a new song, his praise in the assembly of the saints.

Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.

Matthew 28
18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them ina the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

 

[GreenNnice]

Faith saves us, we are justified by faith apart from works (of any kind) However, those who have true faith (as apposed to those who have mere belief) will show works. It is our work (fruit) which proves we had saving faith to begin with. but we were not saved by doing those works. we do them because we are already saved.

people who use this passage to try to prove we are saved by faith PLUS works are taking it completely out of context. james did not say if you had saving faith but fall in doing your works you will lose salvation. he said clearly, if you CLAIM TO HAVE FAITH (making a claim you are saved) BUT HAVE NO WORK, your faith is DEAD. can a dead faith save you? NO! it is mere belief, even demons believe yet tremble.

do not fall as many into thinking this passage is showing we must add our works to faith to be saved, or to keep salvation, and that lack of work or falling away from work will cause you to lose salvation. for this is a lie straight from the mouth of satan.

eg, you are ALIVE to Christ when you die to self. That we can agree on, no?

The Holy Spirit leads us once we are sealed with Him and believing you can leave the Holy S;pirit or not is not going to be in this discussion, again, between us, I told you NOT to run my 'race,' and I hope we NEVER have that conversation again.

I believe that the Lord leads my race, it is going to be done when He says so. And not before, not ONE second before HE knows I'm done

My faith is what I've been given to use as He leads me, as His Helper , the Holy Spirit leads me in my life, and, IF this is 'works,' so be it, I am ACCEPTING His working in my life and you better well believe it, I will be doing works with believing in Him or I might as well be DEAD because I am dead in His mind because WE WILL WORK if we have faith in Him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

eg, you are ALIVE to Christ when you die to self. That we can agree on, no?

No, Your alive to Christ when your born again through faith. Dieing to self would be a work. we are not saved by works, but by faith. After we are born again, we are always alive to Christ. but we have to grow in Christ, this is where dieing to self comes in. We are justified by faith. but sanctified by works. does this make sense?

dieing to self would be part of the sanctification process. not the justification process.

The Holy Spirit leads us once we are sealed with Him and believing you can leave the Holy S;pirit or not is not going to be in this discussion, again, between us, I told you NOT to run my 'race,' and I hope we NEVER have that conversation again.

I believe that the Lord leads my race, it is going to be done when He says so. And not before, not ONE second before HE knows I'm done

My faith is what I've been given to use as He leads me, as His Helper , the Holy Spirit leads me in my life, and, IF this is 'works,' so be it, I am ACCEPTING His working in my life and you better well believe it, I will be doing works with believing in Him or I might as well be DEAD because I am dead in His mind because WE WILL WORK if we have faith in Him.

it only becomes works if you are depending on them to keep you saved, or if you believe you will lose your salvation because you do not work hard enough..

If your works have nothing to do with salvation, and everything to do with sanctification, then we agree 100 %

Does this make sense?

 

[Grandpa]

Ephesians 2:10
For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

this is either true or not true.
whose workmanship are we?
created in whom?
to do what?
who prepared us, and the works we will do?
what works are they?


Isaiah 43:7
everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made."

Ephesians 2:7
so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

1 Timothy 1:16
But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.

Psalm 149:1
Praise the LORD. Sing to the LORD a new song, his praise in the assembly of the saints.

Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.

Matthew 28
18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them ina the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

I wanted to add some to your discernment Zone


Romans 8:1-14
[SUP]1[/SUP]There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
[SUP]14[/SUP]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

 

[Abiding]

lk17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

 

[zone]

He tests His saints to see if they are real, genuine, walking in the spirit, living a crucified life unto Him, obeying His commands each and every day, knowing that they can become disqualified IF they turn away from Him
Tommy 1-29-13

oh that's GOOD NEWS!

 

[Enow]

Faith in God's Providence and not willing to lead by example is dead.

That is all James was talking about if you read that entire chapter in context of the church's mistreatment of the poor. That was why James was referencing Abraham because the place wherein that sacrifice was given was named Jehovah-jireh, meaning God provides for His servants. Abraham told Isaac that God was going to provide, and He did in Genesis 22:7-8 & 13-14.

Otherwise, feel free to explain this passage from Paul then below.

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, [SUP]7 [/SUP]Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

So applying this below as a test of one's faith to be saved is not of the truth.

Originally Posted by Tommy4Christ

He tests His saints to see if they are real, genuine, walking in the spirit, living a crucified life unto Him, obeying His commands each and every day, knowing that they can become disqualified IF they turn away from Him
Tommy 1-29-13

What you had stated only applies to all saved believer in whethor or not they are His disciples to be chosen for the Marriage Supper when they look to Him as their Good Shepherd in living the christian life or... they do not, by looking to keep the law.

 

[GreenNnice]

Tommy, it will never work for people to be 'disqualified' as you told us and ohzone pointed out, you MUST speak from Scripture, even if your idea is right-sounding, for only truth comes from the Word and it must not clang and gong, it must be a timbre that is brought on by the Spirit's natural leading of your thoughts said to the page

Otherwise, those that do not believe in your way of believing will disqualify what you say before you even have finished saying it.

 

[Tommy4Christ]

So you get saved in your sins, then you obey out of gratitude, which means faith is optional?

We are not trying to earn brownie points from God! Is this what you think faith is?

Again, when you disobey God, you are in rebellion to Him and His commands, yes as I wrote its a choice you have, we obey God because we love Him, and fear Him,not trying to earn brownie points from Him, we serve Him because we love and fear Him, but IF you disboey His commands you loose your salvation,,not brownie points, God is no respecter of persons, His wrath in uopn the children of disobedience!

The soul who sins shall die!

Are you abiding or sinning?
1Jn 3:6 Everyone who abides in Him does not sin. Everyone who sins has not seen Him nor known Him.
The word of God is very clear who the children of God are, and who the children of the devil are, in this verse as well as many others that state what a true follower of Christ does.
They abide in Him.
G3306
μένω
menō
men'-o
A primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy): - abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.
And do not sin! Another words a true convert will first come into the kingdom purged and cleansed that can only come from real repentance and faith, laying aside all filthyness and overflow of wickedness first.
Then if the repentance is real and genuine, the act of willful, predetermined, deliberate sin and rebellion has stopped, ceased, no more, put to death, crucified with Christ, never to be brought out again!
You can argue all day and night about what sin is or isn’t, or that all sin is the same cop out, but the bottom line here is the act where the desires meet the will, and rebellious actions against God come into effect!
The scriptures must harmonize together, and they do when you take the whole council of God, which clearly negates the sin every day in thought, word and deed crowd, who was told they are saved by saying the sinners prayer, and that they will continue to sin as true follower of Christ.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Again the sin dilemma is explained by the word of God, telling you that the ones who are born of God (born again) DO NOT sin willfully against God, for they WILL keep themselves, such as putting on the full armor of God, guarding their heart, filling their mind with the precious truths of God, and avoiding all forms of temptation and evil as commanded.
Now if you consider this being self-righteous, or prideful in any way, then you are receiving this message in your carnal mind that has been clouded by the wolves telling you constantly that sin is inbred into your members, you cannot stop, maybe slow down a bit, but if you could stop fornication, lying, cheating, adulteration, lusting after the things of the world, getting drunk, etc., then you wouldn’t need Jesus!
Again another false straw man excuse for sin, when the word clearly explains those born of God, who came to Him on His terms, DO not sin, and if they choose to do so, then woe to them!
The great mercy of God is there and available to all those who are still in bondage to sin and the lies as I was for most of my adult life and more so when I thought I got saved, but here is the great lie, that satan whisper’s in your ear, telling you, that you can sin (rebel against God) ant not die spiritually!
The great mercy of God also, does not cover the unrepentant sinner, who is struggling with many addictions and sin, He is waiting patiently for now for you to repent, stop sinning, get clear of all wrong doing, then seek His mercy, not think all is well since you said a little prayer, and confessed you are a sinner! God already knows that!
He commands all mankind everywhere to repent, forsake their flesh and worldly passions, and come to Him broken and dead to sin, now alive to Him. Please read Romans Ch. 6, it applies to all professing Christians today; it’s not some foreign provision, but a reality few will adhere to.
Pro 28:13 Whoever conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy.
So do you know God? Or are you playing games with Him by defending sin and then blaming this sin on a false inbred nature your denomination or bible teacher told you to be true!!
Gal 6:7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap.

Gal 6:8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
Tommy 1-30-13

 

[rauleetoe]

So faith without works is dead also.​

But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[SUP][f][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? [SUP]23 [/SUP]And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]g[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] And he was called the friend of God. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.(James 2-20-26)…
Today faith as described in the word of God has taken on many different forms that can easily confuse anyone truly searching for truth. Faith has been so very misrepresented by many well-meaning and not so well meaning Bible teachers and scholars that there are many false and dangerous teachings on this simple act of obedience.
As you can see from the great example set forth by Abraham and Rahab, on what a real saving faith is, it seems near impossible for anyone who has some discernment to not see how obedience and faith go hand in hand, together, two peas in a pod, and mesh as one fine oiled machine when used and put into action as an act of obedience to the commands of God.
I won’t go into every aspect of the above powerful verses, I just encourage you to read them apart from your conceived notions that you were born a sinner, totally depraved, and now faith to you is some forensic ideal that was already done when you said I accept Jesus!
Yes, faith is a work, a working faith through love, where you love God supremely as commanded, and obey His commands from a heart made pure through repentance, and obedience to the truth.
So as we can see Abraham obeyed God from his heart, for He loved God supremely, he did what God told Him to do, no questions asked, thus this obedience was imputed or put onto him as righteousness.
This blows the myth that Jesus did it all in advance, and that faith is just a passive notion that has no dynamics working behind it such as, purity, obedience, synergy (working together with God to produce something powerful together) righteousness, justified by works (deeds) and not faith alone.
But many who profess Christ today have a dead faith, either by sheer laziness or ignorance , or have sat under the repeat after me teachers, who boldly claim faith and obedience are not the same, where obedience was done for them through the provision Jesus somehow made for them, and now their faith equal’s the faith of the demons.
Abraham, Rahab, Job, Noah, Daniel, Joseph and many others God used mightily, all produced the deed or works of faith; they obeyed God from their heart, and great love and fear of His awesome power, producing a perfect upright walk with Him.
Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.
Faith is a work, we must do to please God, it’s a command not a side issue reserved only for the obedient saints in the Bible, but for all who come to Christ as commanded, by faith, with an obedient heart, that can only come through real repentance and faith proven by deeds!
So the next time you want to scream “It’s not of works” remember to be very sure you know what works the word of God is talking about, as clearly portrayed and lived out by Abraham, and many others God declared righteous by their working obedient faith!
To sum this us:
Faith is not passive; it is active, alive and ongoing!
Faith is a work, from the heart that obeys as commanded!
Faith is pleasing to the Lord, in fact He commands all His saints to walk by it, everyday!
Faith=Obedience!
Faith is imputed as righteousness to those who obey God!
Faith purifies the heart, made pure through repentance and clearing of wrong doing!
Faith can become shipwrecked by disobeying God, and following the flesh over the spirit!
There are many more strong examples of faith working through love in the word of God, many have read them and have gotten inspired by them, but the main concern is where your faith is?
In something that never happened, or a working, dynamic, obedient faith as laid out by many brave and godly men and women in the word of God!
And remember IF any of these men or women decided to disobey God, then God would have choose someone else to work with Him, as He is no respecter of persons, but His mercy and kindness is bestowed on the righteous, or the ones who are declared righteous by obeying Him through their heart, keeping His commands, and working together with Him to be counted worthy of their calling on the narrow road!
Act 15:9 And He put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith ((obedience).
Obedience matters, but it’s a free will choice God has given us, where He tests His saints to see if they are real, genuine, walking in the spirit, living a crucified life unto Him, obeying His commands each and every day, knowing that they can become disqualified IF they turn away from Him, seeking to obey their flesh and the many false doctrine’s that teach faith is already done for you in advanced, and any disobedience to God is just a speed bump, not a road block leading to spiritual death!
Tommy 1-29-13

Obedience does matter, and whether folks like it or not, Christians are told to preach the Word, be in season and out of season..for some will not want to hear it, but that is on them. And we are not to be so wrapped up in who will listen but more interested in getting the message out. He is Holy. Amen.

 

[rauleetoe]

oh that's GOOD NEWS!

Sorry Zone, no..its the Bible. We cannot water down the message because people want to Sin to their hearts content+claim they love God=really show they serve their master,Satan and are not of God.
Take it up with God, read 1 John 3,1 peter1,1 thessalonians 4,2 timothy 4:1-4..which says many will wander away and listen to myths,and be lovers of self,and unholy,profane..idolatrous.
Should the message be watered down because some who appeal only to 'grace' which is not grace, grace+nothing else=cheap grace. But Grace+a response meaning you repent and turn from your sins,because God is Holy and you are gratefull=the real Gospel, that is true Grace. Grace without a response is either A)cheap grace B)rejection of true grace.
Either way, your response or lack thereof is required.
It cannot be changed,altered,or shifted to fit those who's ears won't hear the truth. So, go on and call it the Law, but last time i checked in scripture,the Bible calls it God's command. You want to disobey it? You can, but there are consequences to disobeying.

 

[rauleetoe]

So you get saved in your sins, then you obey out of gratitude, which means faith is optional?

We are not trying to earn brownie points from God! Is this what you think faith is?

Again, when you disobey God, you are in rebellion to Him and His commands, yes as I wrote its a choice you have, we obey God because we love Him, and fear Him,not trying to earn brownie points from Him, we serve Him because we love and fear Him, but IF you disboey His commands you loose your salvation,,not brownie points, God is no respecter of persons, His wrath in uopn the children of disobedience!

The soul who sins shall die!

Are you abiding or sinning?
1Jn 3:6 Everyone who abides in Him does not sin. Everyone who sins has not seen Him nor known Him.
The word of God is very clear who the children of God are, and who the children of the devil are, in this verse as well as many others that state what a true follower of Christ does.
They abide in Him.
G3306
μένω
menō
men'-o
A primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy): - abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.
And do not sin! Another words a true convert will first come into the kingdom purged and cleansed that can only come from real repentance and faith, laying aside all filthyness and overflow of wickedness first.
Then if the repentance is real and genuine, the act of willful, predetermined, deliberate sin and rebellion has stopped, ceased, no more, put to death, crucified with Christ, never to be brought out again!
You can argue all day and night about what sin is or isn’t, or that all sin is the same cop out, but the bottom line here is the act where the desires meet the will, and rebellious actions against God come into effect!
The scriptures must harmonize together, and they do when you take the whole council of God, which clearly negates the sin every day in thought, word and deed crowd, who was told they are saved by saying the sinners prayer, and that they will continue to sin as true follower of Christ.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Again the sin dilemma is explained by the word of God, telling you that the ones who are born of God (born again) DO NOT sin willfully against God, for they WILL keep themselves, such as putting on the full armor of God, guarding their heart, filling their mind with the precious truths of God, and avoiding all forms of temptation and evil as commanded.
Now if you consider this being self-righteous, or prideful in any way, then you are receiving this message in your carnal mind that has been clouded by the wolves telling you constantly that sin is inbred into your members, you cannot stop, maybe slow down a bit, but if you could stop fornication, lying, cheating, adulteration, lusting after the things of the world, getting drunk, etc., then you wouldn’t need Jesus!
Again another false straw man excuse for sin, when the word clearly explains those born of God, who came to Him on His terms, DO not sin, and if they choose to do so, then woe to them!
The great mercy of God is there and available to all those who are still in bondage to sin and the lies as I was for most of my adult life and more so when I thought I got saved, but here is the great lie, that satan whisper’s in your ear, telling you, that you can sin (rebel against God) ant not die spiritually!
The great mercy of God also, does not cover the unrepentant sinner, who is struggling with many addictions and sin, He is waiting patiently for now for you to repent, stop sinning, get clear of all wrong doing, then seek His mercy, not think all is well since you said a little prayer, and confessed you are a sinner! God already knows that!
He commands all mankind everywhere to repent, forsake their flesh and worldly passions, and come to Him broken and dead to sin, now alive to Him. Please read Romans Ch. 6, it applies to all professing Christians today; it’s not some foreign provision, but a reality few will adhere to.
Pro 28:13 Whoever conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy.
So do you know God? Or are you playing games with Him by defending sin and then blaming this sin on a false inbred nature your denomination or bible teacher told you to be true!!
Gal 6:7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap.

Gal 6:8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
Tommy 1-30-13

Faith without works is not real faith. I think some just want a belief system or a 'systematic theology' at best but do not want to live out what the Bible teaches. God cannot contradict himself. He has a standard, its a universal standard for all Christians. We come to God on his terms,and only on his terms. We cannot come with 'Option B' and expect him to honor that.

 

[rauleetoe]

Tommy, it will never work for people to be 'disqualified' as you told us and ohzone pointed out, you MUST speak from Scripture, even if your idea is right-sounding, for only truth comes from the Word and it must not clang and gong, it must be a timbre that is brought on by the Spirit's natural leading of your thoughts said to the page

Otherwise, those that do not believe in your way of believing will disqualify what you say before you even have finished saying it.

The problem Green is not in the gong or the clang,which I really do not see from Tommy, I think he gets his point across rather eloquently. The problem is, if you said God wants to bless you with money..everyone here would amen with you. If you say he is a loving and gracious God. They will amen that too with you. Go say he is Holy,and that sin separates you from God. And that you really cannot say you are right without actually being right, then you will be cast outside and stoned.
Yet that is what the Bible teaches. It really matters little what some 'christians' think about the whole thing. The Bible is the word and we are to live right(with God's help) and we are not to be permissive or excusatory. Give lipservice to your neighbors or fellow church goers or even your pastor,this is possible. God knows your heart, he knows if you are his or not. This is not about not battling with an 'old man' nature(provision has been given for that too), its about not making excuses and seeking after God with all you got. Because he commands us to. Don't take my word for it, his word says that those who despise this message are not rejecting men, but God,who gives you his Holy Spirit.
1 thessalonians 4:8
Whatsover you sow,that and that alone you will reap Galatians 6:7-8
He is not mocked, but he will reward us if we do not faint, verse 9.
Men will have no excuse. Easy believism will merely get a you a one way ticket to hell. Wide is the gate.