Its just not there, ive looked uo the words and fullness isnt the greek word best for a final count number, and even if that was the idea in part which doesnt matter because it also means fullness as far as quality or like full membership which for all i know was a full number God wanted before He took off the blindness in part.
or we could just take it for what it literally means.
πλήρωμα, ατος, τό, a full measure, Eur.
2. πλ. δαιτός the satiety of the feast, Id.; πλ. τυρῶν their fill of cheese, Id.
3. of ships, a full number, Hdt., Eur.; of single ships, their complement, Thuc., etc.
4. of number, the sum, total, Hdt., Ar.
5. a piece inserted to fill up, N.T.
6. fulness, full and perfect nature, Ib.
II. a filling up,
completing, Soph.; κυλίκων πλ. ἔχων to have the task of filling them, Eur.
2.
fulfilment
Liddell, H. (1996). A lexicon: Abridged from Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English lexicon (647). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
And then we take a look at another passage which shows it. in Luke.
Luke 21:24
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be
led away captive into all nations. And
Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Then we look at daniels beasts. the empires which would own jerusalem for a set amount of time. That time being fulfilled when Christ personally comes and destroys them.
All three fit together.
Fullfilment, or fullness means as one of the interpretations state. that when this time aloted to the gentiled, which started with the babylonian captivity of jerusalem, and will continue to the end. is fulfilled.
I do not think, as many die, this is a time when the number of saved is fulfilled. It is not in context or romans 11. It is context of how long Isreal will be blind.
Nowhere in that text can you see any 2000 year gap. Not even a hint. In fact the next verse starts out with "And" so all Israel will be saved then a quote from Isaiah 59 which has no gap. Then the next verse is a fulfillment for the verses below you have "for this IS my covenant" unto them.
who said anything about a gap? According to paul. I sreal was already our enemy because of the gospel and would be until th etime of the gentile is fulfilled. There is no gap.
Paul said, Right now. they are our enemy, They are blind. When the time of the gentile is fulfilled. their blindess will be removed (The OT tells us how) now gap. It statrted then, and continues to today.
Again, Lev 26.
Lev 26:
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them;
for I am the Lord their God.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God:
We might not be able to see a nation of Isreal. But according to lev 26, even when punished, God promised to never cast them away, destroy them or abhor them.. Thus wherever they are, they still must be in existance. Otherwise God lied and did not keep his promise.
I see the nation of Israel: But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:See EG He did keep His covenant.
oh no. you can't do this, unless we are under law.. And the land of canaan now belongs to us. If you do not believe this, then lev 26 does not belong to us (although many dispensationalists will say it does. they are wrong!)
For lev 26 was spoken to those who were under law. (Not for salvation. for blessing in their land), or cursed and scattered.. you have the wrong context here. this covenant was never given to us.
We were never told if we sin, or play the harlot with idols we will be taken from our land, spread all over the earth due to our punishment, and yet never ben killed destroyed. That was given to Israel only, according to the promise made to abraham Isaac and Jacob. That is why your enemy and mine Judaism is called our enemy, because it is against the gospel. But at the same time beloved due to the promise made their fathers. A promise which stands as of today. It was NEVER salvic in nature.
I agree and disagree. I think present a future state of Isreal as a nation is spoken of in romans 11. Where romans 9 speaks of the spiritual nature of who Isreal is.
Well i dont i think the theme in both is about true Israel which is the believers although the unbelievers are mentioned thats about it. If you need a 70th unfulfilled week you wont find it in romans 11 nor matt24 Nor dan 9:27 youl just have to pull it out of your hat like everyone else.
You should say I wont find it till it happens.
Matt 24 does show us a fulfillment, when Christ returns.
Luke shows us when the time of gentiles is complete
Dan 9 shows us when Isreal will no longer be in sin against God
Rom 11 tells us gentiles not to be too puffed up in pride (as we see in here alot) because Gods promise to Isreal still stands.
I do not have to look hard.. It is all there.. Plus many many other OT prophesies support this.
Lets say for a moment that your insistance that God keeps His covenant with Israel (which He has in Christ)
Can't be. Christ fulfilled the covenant which saves us. Their covenant was not salvic. But lets go on.
which is what Paul is trying to teach(notice right after he says all israel will be saved he goes right to the cross and the covenant)
Yes in romans 9 I agree.
But lets say you missed the obvious as if the cross/covenant was secondary here which amazes me .
Does over 2000 years look like a kept covenant? Does your house is left to you desolate sound like a ongoing covenant? Or could the covenant be the cross?
Yeah it does.
1. Lev 26 said this will happen if they follow Idols and false teachings and Not god. and that would continue until the repent. Have they repented? No.. so why would I expect God to just put them back or save them while they are in unbelief?
2. Could the covenant be the cross? The covenant in which all nations shall be blessed yes.. The covenant in which Isreal OWNS the land, and as long as they follow Gods commands he will bless them in their land, but if they do not, he will curse them and leave their house desolate.. No. The cross never had anything to do with this covenant, The land was unconditionally given FOREVER. Thier ability to posses it was conditional on their obedience.
Does that fact their disobedience has caused them to be scattered make the covenant null and void? no. It was predicted it would happen.
No gap. And Dan 9:27 the covenant thats said the antichrist makes, is not the antichrist, but that Jesus confirmed the covenant in His death midway through the 70th week.
You can say this till your blue in the face, it will not make it true. you have to many issues.
1. The 69th week ended the day Christ entered jerusalem on a donkey. Scinece and history proves this.
2. The covenant occures AFTER the temple and city are destroyed. meaning after 70 AD.. The passage says, THEN meaning after these things take place.. what things?
People of the future prince destroy city and sanctuary
The end of war desolations are determined. What desolation and what wars? well we are speaking of Jerusalem here, and the time that Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles. The end of this fulfillment is when the one week covenant will be made, not before.
Jesus said there will be wars and rumors of wars. the end is not yet.. This is what he spoke of.
Romans 15:8(some versions say promise others say covenant)
romans 15: 8 speak of the salvic aspect of the covenant. Nothing about land.. or mosaic law here. It does not fit.
Summery romans 9-11 has no gaps The covenant to Israel is and has been honored. The covenants were never to the children of the flesh. So noone has been not saved. There was a turnover between the Old and the New and Israel was blinded in part, made jelous, was an enemy for a season till the gentiles got comfy. The rest that dont believe were part of a system that brought the messiah therefore beloved for the elect.
thats my story.if the explaination didnt turn out understandable its cuz i have a cookie buzz going.
wrong
1. The covenant was never about salvation. Yo you and your descendants I give this land. not salvation And this covenant is eternal.
2. Rom 9 - 11 has no gaps. correct. Rom explains the covenant given to Isreal never had a thing to do with salvation.. Rom 11 tells us what will happen to Isreal from the time he wrote it till the time the gentiles is fulfilled. No gap. I agree..
Have you come down from you high yet??..lol
