Question about the New Heaven and the New Earth

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Tintin

Guest
#21
#21
Simple. The first verse is talking about how humans won't be married in heaven (just like angels). It has nothing to do with angels not having physical bodies, I understand that they don't. But think about it, God is Spirit. He chose to send his son, Jesus Christ to Earth as a human (still God). Jesus ministered, died and rose and ascended to Heaven still in God/human form. If Jesus himself is in Heaven in a physical body, why would he have his creations abandon their physical humanity (not sinfulness but skin and bone etc.) to join him in his kingdom, the New Heaven and the New Earth? It makes no sense. You're drawing strange conclusions from these verses.
 
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mark54

Banned
#22
Jan 11, 2013
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#22
Tintin said:
Simple. The first verse is talking about how humans won't be married in heaven (just like angels). It has nothing to do with angels not having physical bodies, I understand that they don't. But think about it, God is Spirit. He chose to send his son, Jesus Christ to Earth as a human (still God). Jesus ministered, died and rose and ascended to Heaven still in God/human form. If Jesus himself is in Heaven in a physical body, why would he have his creations abandon their physical humanity (not sinfulness but skin and bone etc.) to join him in his kingdom, the New Heaven and the New Earth? It makes no sense. You're drawing strange conclusions from these verses.
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Scripture please that states Christ is in Heaven in a physical body of flesh and blood
 
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mark54

Banned
#23
Jan 11, 2013
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#23
Tintin said:
Simple. The first verse is talking about how humans won't be married in heaven (just like angels). It has nothing to do with angels not having physical bodies, I understand that they don't. But think about it, God is Spirit. He chose to send his son, Jesus Christ to Earth as a human (still God). Jesus ministered, died and rose and ascended to Heaven still in God/human form. If Jesus himself is in Heaven in a physical body, why would he have his creations abandon their physical humanity (not sinfulness but skin and bone etc.) to join him in his kingdom, the New Heaven and the New Earth? It makes no sense. You're drawing strange conclusions from these verses.
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Christ reigns now in Heaven and on earth for the Father has put everything under his feet. Christ is over all, for all authority has been given to him by the Father in Heaven and on earth , even the angels are subject ot him, who you accept are Spirit, and not of flesh and blood, only the Father obviously is not subject to the Son.

You believe Christ is reigning right now over all in a human physical body of flesh and blood?
 
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Tintin

Guest
#24
#24
Do I believe Jesus Christ reigns over earth right now in a renewed physical body? Yes, I do. I'm not sure his body needs blood or organs to function (God only knows the details) but nonetheless he has a perfect physical body. He was the first to have a renewed body. He led the way for us.

Acts 1:10-11

[SUP]10 [/SUP]While he was going and they were gazing up toward heaven, suddenly two men in white robes stood by them. [SUP]11 [/SUP]They said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking up toward heaven? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.

Philippians 3:20-21

[SUP]20 [/SUP]But our citizenship is in heaven, and it is from there that we are expecting a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]21 [/SUP]He will transform the body of our humiliation that it may be conformed to the body of his glory, by the power that also enables him to make all things subject to himself.

Revelation 1:12-15

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Then I turned to see whose voice it was that spoke to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, [SUP]13 [/SUP]and in the midst of the lampstands I saw one like the Son of Man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash across his chest. [SUP]14 [/SUP]His head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire, [SUP]15 [/SUP]his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters.

New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
 
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mark54

Banned
#25
Jan 11, 2013
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#25
Tintin said:
Do I believe Jesus Christ reigns over earth right now in a renewed physical body? Yes, I do. I'm not sure his body needs blood or organs to function (God only knows the details) but nonetheless he has a perfect physical body. He was the first to have a renewed body. He led the way for us.

Acts 1:10-11

[SUP]10 [/SUP]While he was going and they were gazing up toward heaven, suddenly two men in white robes stood by them. [SUP]11 [/SUP]They said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking up toward heaven? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.

Philippians 3:20-21

[SUP]20 [/SUP]But our citizenship is in heaven, and it is from there that we are expecting a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]21 [/SUP]He will transform the body of our humiliation that it may be conformed to the body of his glory, by the power that also enables him to make all things subject to himself.

Revelation 1:12-15

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Then I turned to see whose voice it was that spoke to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, [SUP]13 [/SUP]and in the midst of the lampstands I saw one like the Son of Man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash across his chest. [SUP]14 [/SUP]His head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire, [SUP]15 [/SUP]his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters.

New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
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None of those scriptures say Christ is in a physical human body Tin Tin
 
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Tintin

Guest
#26
#26
I apologise, I've done some more thinking and researching and I'm rethinking my stance on the fact that Jesus currently reigns in Heaven in human form. I still believe that we'll eventually have material bodies in the New Heaven and the New Earth, bodies renewed by God, for his glory.
 
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mark54

Banned
#27
Jan 11, 2013
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#27
Tintin said:
I apologise, I've done some more thinking and researching and I'm rethinking my stance on the fact that Jesus currently reigns in Heaven in human form. I still believe that we'll eventually have material bodies in the New Heaven and the New Earth, bodies renewed by God, for his glory.
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No need to apologise Tin TIN, I am sure none of us fully understands this subject.
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#28
#28
Radius said:
There are two schools of thought: one is that this earth will be recommissioned and restructered. Then there are those that believe that God will totally wipe this world out and make a brand new earth.
I believe the heaven will be totally new--but what what about the New Earth?
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2 Peter 3:12-13 KJV
(12) Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
(13) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

These verses tell us that the earth will be burned up and there will be a new earth.
 
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mark54

Banned
#29
Jan 11, 2013
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#29
Laodicea said:
2 Peter 3:12-13 KJV
(12) Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
(13) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

These verses tell us that the earth will be burned up and there will be a new earth.
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How could the earth be burned up in a way we could understand, and be a fulfillment of biblical prophecy, while appearing to happen by human decision making?
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#30
#30
mark54 said:
How could the earth be burned up in a way we could understand, and be a fulfillment of biblical prophecy, while appearing to happen by human decision making?
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Humans are not the ones to burn up the earth.
Revelation 20:9 KJV
(9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
 
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mark54

Banned
#31
Jan 11, 2013
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#31
Laodicea said:
Humans are not the ones to burn up the earth.
Revelation 20:9 KJV
(9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
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We are at cross purposes, my fault sorry, your verses refer to a specific area of the earth being burnerd up,(the army surrounding the camp of God's people) I was thinking of a much larger area, where the sun and moon refused to shine and a third of the earth being covered in darkness
But according to what you were referring to, yes you are right.
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#32
#32
Why would God want to re-use this earth that has been cursed 3 times when He can easily make a new one without any curse?
 
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mark54

Banned
#33
Jan 11, 2013
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#33
Laodicea said:
Why would God want to re-use this earth that has been cursed 3 times when He can easily make a new one without any curse?
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Are you asking me to understand God's thoughts and His reasoning?
 
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Trax

Guest
#34
#34
mark54 said:
Christ reigns now in Heaven and on earth for the Father has put everything under his feet. Christ is over all, for all authority has been given to him by the Father in Heaven and on earth , even the angels are subject ot him, who you accept are Spirit, and not of flesh and blood, only the Father obviously is not subject to the Son.

You believe Christ is reigning right now over all in a human physical body of flesh and blood?
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Luk 24:39-43 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh
and bones, as ye see me have. (40) And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
(41) And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
(42) And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. (43) And he took it, and did eat
before them.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Jesus has a body. He had a body when He talked and ate with Abraham. He had a body before and after the cross.
If He is seated at the right hand of the Father, He's got a body. When He returns, He's going to have that body.
Where is that in the Bible? Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

It is a waste of time to create a NEW earth, if there are no bodies. I mean, create a new earth for what?????
To look at? To watch spin on our days off? Spirits don't need planets.
 
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mark54

Banned
#35
Jan 11, 2013
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#35
Trax said:
Luk 24:39-43 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh
and bones, as ye see me have. (40) And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
(41) And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
(42) And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. (43) And he took it, and did eat
before them.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

ets.
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So since before the creation of the world, Christ has existed in a body of flesh, blood and bones?
 
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Tintin

Guest
#36
#36
He had a body when He talked and ate with Abraham.

Wait. I thought these were the sons of God (angels), not the Son of God.

I believe Jesus came in the flesh to the earth for the first-time, at Bethlehem. Before that he was Spirit. That's part of the miracle. Otherwise, Jesus Christ was God/Man in Heaven, came to earth as God/baby boy (so he did a Benjamin Button age reversal) and then grew up to be God/Man. That doesn't make any sense.
 
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mark54

Banned
#37
Jan 11, 2013
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#37
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. [SUP]3

[/SUP]Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?(Heb1:14)

I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable
1Cor15:50

 
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mark54

Banned
#38
Jan 11, 2013
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#38
Tintin said:
He had a body when He talked and ate with Abraham.

Wait. I thought these were the sons of God (angels), not the Son of God.

I believe Jesus came in the flesh to the earth for the first-time, at Bethlehem. Before that he was Spirit. That's part of the miracle. Otherwise, Jesus Christ was God/Man in Heaven, came to earth as God/baby boy (so he did a Benjamin Button age reversal) and then grew up to be God/Man. That doesn't make any sense.
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Can I ask you Tintin(sincerely)

Christ, before he came to earth was purely Spirit. We know that because he made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness, he humbled himself and became obdiant unto death, even death on a cross. Because of this the following happened:

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
[SUP]11 [/SUP]and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.


I say this sincerely. it does not sound right to me, that since Christ has been raised from the dead, and has been exalted to the highest place he is in a body of flesh and blood, whereas before this happened he was purely Spirit
 
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Trax

Guest
#39
#39
mark54 said:
So since before the creation of the world, Christ has existed in a body of flesh, blood and bones?
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Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in
the heat of the day;
Gen 18:8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before
them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

Exo 33:22-23 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift
of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: (23) And I will take away mine
hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon
mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Just whose body was that, that ate with Abraham, and Moses saw, and whose finger
wrote the 10 Commandments? Was it the same body or something He clothed Himself
with on a temporary basis, for interacting with Abraham and Moses? And it is written:
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
After whose likeness? Man was created with a body. God is spirit, so where does
the likeness of a body come from? The Christ entered the world when He was born to Mary,
but what was the body of Adam patterned after, to be in the likeness of?
 
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mark54

Banned
#40
Jan 11, 2013
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#40
Trax said:
Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in
the heat of the day;
Gen 18:8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before
them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

Exo 33:22-23 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift
of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: (23) And I will take away mine
hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon
mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Just whose body was that, that ate with Abraham, and Moses saw, and whose finger
wrote the 10 Commandments? Was it the same body or something He clothed Himself
with on a temporary basis, for interacting with Abraham and Moses? And it is written:
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
After whose likeness? Man was created with a body. God is spirit, so where does
the likeness of a body come from? The Christ entered the world when He was born to Mary,
but what was the body of Adam patterned after, to be in the likeness of?
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OK
Paul says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God
Christ states we will be like the angels in Heaven at the resurrection
The writer of Hebrews states, angels are SPIRIT messengers

But despite the fact flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God and despite the fact the angels in Heaven are purely Spirit(according to the writer of Hebrews) Christ who is higher than the angels and reigns now in Heaven and on earth dwells in a body of flesh and blood.
Have I stated your belief acurately?
 
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