What is the Messianic Kingdom?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#21
EG i have answers that you will not receive.
So i believe ill save room and even tho Jesus
quoted from dan 2 and 7 and told of the fulfillment
im gona save my energy for my icecream.:cool:
Abiding.. I have answers you will not receive..

so we are at a stalemate..

Jesus did not show fulfilment of Dan 2 and 7.. they were still under the iron, or 4th kingdom in his day.. even in ad 70, they were still under the iron kingdom.. it had not become iron and clay yet.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#22
good thing i rarely doubted my sanity (though some of the alternate-realities are a trip:rolleyes:), and never the scriptures these many years:)
been a little lonely, and rough going at times, though.
wanna see the bruises:rolleyes:?

BEEN A LONG TIME COMING.



clarity is a wonderful thing. and unity in the faith is even better.

resistance, though astoundingly pervasive, is futile.

ty Elin.





Ephesians 1:17
I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#23
Christ priest and king

"Then say to him, 'Thus says the LORD of hosts, "Behold, a man whose name is Branch, for He will branch out from where He is; and He will build the temple of the LORD. "Yes, it is He who will build the temple of the LORD, and He who will bear the honor and sit and rule on His throne. Thus, He will be a priest on His throne, and the counsel of peace will be between the two offices." (Zechariah 6:12-13)

Christ has built his temple, the church, which is the kingdom: "Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are. " (1 Corinthians 3:16-17)
Yes. the kingdom is a spiritual kingdom. when have I ever denied this? why do you keep saying I deny this when I have over and over said this was true.

However. you miss the other part of the kingdom.

the whole world will worship him (has not happened yet)

Kings of the earth will bow to his authority (has not happened yet)

Are all dominions serving and obeying him now? (dan 7) no.. They have not yet

have all the kingdoms been crushed? (dan 2) seems like we still have kingdoms which are anti God in power all over the world.. why is that?

Has satan been bound so he can not decieve the nations?? (tell that to to all the world leaders who want nothing to do with God, even the one we have as president today? you do not think satan has influence over them?? and the world??

I can go on and on and on.. but as you said, you will not hear.


Jesus is on the throne of David now:
"And so, because he was a prophet and knew that GOD HAD SWORN TO HIM WITH AN OATH TO SEAT one OF HIS DESCENDANTS ON HIS THRONE, he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ" (Acts 2:30-31)

"But of the Son He says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom. " (Hebrews 1:8)

If Christ were on earth, he could not be a priest of any kind. Only in heaven can he be a priest, and then only after the order of Melchizedek.

"Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; " (Hebrews 8:4)

"just as He says also in another passage, "YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK." " (Hebrews 5:6)

So it is clear, that Jesus is a king now and a priest now, and all this in heaven.
lol.. Ok.. Here we go.. again your speaking of salvation.. since when does the king sitting on davids throne have to do with salvation??

1. Davids throne was not in heaven, it was on earth.
2. Acts shows us that if Christ did not rise from the dead, he could never sit on David's throne. this he would have failed to fulfill the promise to david. This is the context. not that Jesus is sitting on Davids throne now.


What does scripture say about the davidic covenant? and davids throne?

2 Sam 7: 10 I will also appoint a place for My people Israel and will plant them, that they may live in their own place and not be disturbed again, nor will the wicked afflict them any more as formerly,
11 even from the day that I commanded judges to be over My people Israel; and I will give you rest from all your enemies. The Lord also declares to you that the Lord will make a house for you. 12 When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your [c]descendant after you, who will come forth from [d]you, and I will establish his kingdom.

Ez 37: 24 “My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd; and they will walk in My ordinances and keep My statutes and observe them. 25 They will live on the land that I gave to Jacob My servant, in which your fathers lived; and they will live on it, they, and their sons and their sons’ sons, forever; and David My servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will [h]place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever. 27 My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. 28 And the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever.”’”

Look at ez 37. can it be eternity he is talking about ( a new heaven and new earth?) no.. why?? he said he will multilply them. There will be no more childbirth in heaven,, He said all the nations will know he is God.. in eternity, everyone already knew he was god. that is what got them there in the first place. those who never figure this out, are in hell at that time.. so it has to be a temporal thing on earth.

What did God say would happen?

1 Samuel, David is promised Isreal will be given their land back. Will live in peace. Will no longer fear their enemy.
2. In ez (the prophetic fulfilment shown) They will no longer live in rebellion against God (Isreal) They will live in the land God gave Jacob (not heaven, but the land of canaan) You know. the SAME LAND THEIR FATHERS LIVE IN?? He will place them and multiply them. And the nations (gentiles) will know Jesus is the Lord over all.


if your going to try to interpret something.. You must interpret the whole things. The facts things have not happened yet, which God said WOULD happen at the fulfilment, proves it is not yet fulfilled.

Jesus cannot be a king or priest on earth because he is not a Levite.
Jesus is a priest forever. on earth or not.. And he is a king because he is a son of david.. being a levite means nothing.


Elin ty i was just looking at those two texts where it had to do with the present kingdom.
I hear all the time Jesus needs to sit on Davids throne......then they spin it into a future kingdom.:p
God spun it into a future kingdom. The future kingdom has nothing to do with who is saved, how one is saved,, or anything about this, it has to do with Gods promises to people. Where Isreal is returned from being scattered. When they are place in their land, Where they follow ALL Gods commands, and turn from their rebellion completely. where they live in peace. Where Jesus sits on the throne of David.

Non of this has happened yet. so you can laugh all you want. and say we spin all we want, but it is you who are doing the spinning.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#24
good thing i rarely doubted my sanity (though some of the alterante-realities are a trip), and never the scriptures these many years:)
been a little lonely, and rough going at times, though.
wanna see the bruises:rolleyes:?

BEEN A LONG TIME COMING.



clarity is a wonderful thing. and unity in the faith is even better.

resistance, though astoundingly pervasive, is futile.

ty Elin.





Ephesians 1:17
I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.
Lucky for us there will be a time when resistance will not be futile. or be in action. because the whole world (every tribe nation and tongue0 will see the power and glory of God and worship him on a daily basis, and these fruitless areguments will cease. because we will ALL know the truth.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#25
Lucky for us there will be a time when resistance will not be futile. or be in action. because the whole world (every tribe nation and tongue0 will see the power and glory of God and worship him on a daily basis, and these fruitless areguments will cease. because we will ALL know the truth.
the truth is knowable right now.
no argument from me on what Elin posted.
it's clearly written.
none of that other stuff is.

Daniel 9 is the key. the covenant mentioned in it is Christ's Blood, the New.
attributing that to satan is awful.
been saying that all along.
just glad to see it more and more.

but we all believe what we want to.
that's fine with me:)
 
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Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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#26
Actually, there is no "messianic kingdom" in Scripture.
A distinction without a difference.

The Kingdom that Jesus Christ came to open the way into and which he was given to reign over is God's Kingdom, the Kingdom of Heaven, which was typified and foreshadowed by the Kingdom of Israel. Which rather simplifies the whole issue of eschatology to my way of thinking.
It does simply eschatology.

Typified and forshadowed are past tense, and the types and shadows pass away with the advent of the reality itself (Col 2:17; Heb 9:10, 10:1); i.e., the kingdom of God in Christ which is forever (Da 2:44).

The NT people of God, both Jews and Gentiles, which is the church, is the fullfilment (goal, end) of the ages (1Co 10:11).
There is no other age to come but eternity.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#27
the truth is knowable right now.
no argument from me on what Elin posted.
it's clearly written.
none of that other stuff is.
yes, the truth is knowable.. but it does not mean everyone knows it.

scripture says there will be a time when everyone knows it.. I look for that day, you state it will not happen.. Thats to bad.


Daniel 9 is the key. the covenant mentioned in it is Christ's Blood, the New.
attributing that to satan is awful.
been saying that all along.
dan 9 has nothing to do with a new covenant. your destroying context. it has everything to do with the people of Daniel repenting and turning from their sin.

but as abiding like to tell me, you can't see this.

just glad to see it more and more.
see what more and more?

but we all believe what we want to.
that's fine with me:)
fine with me also :p I just like to show other views.. so people hear both sides of the story, like I said as far as scofield and darbyism, we would be on the same page.. but that is a different subject.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#28
A distinction without a difference.


It does simply eschatology.

Typified and forshadowed are past tense, and the types and shadows pass away with the advent of the reality itself (Col 2:17; Heb 9:10, 10:1); i.e., the kingdom of God in Christ which is forever (Da 2:44).

The NT people of God, both Jews and Gentiles, which is the church, is the fullfilment (goal, end) of the ages (1Co 10:11).
There is no other age to come but eternity.
AMEN.


the messianic age (two ages) is indeed a known concept - Judaism (some forms) hold to it even to this day...they place it in the future (like some other belief systems); naturally - they rejected Jesus and His Kingdom...they're building their own, by their own power and authority.

well, with a little help from some friends.

Matthew 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mark 10
28Peter began to say to him, “See, we have left everything and followed you.” 29Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, 30who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#29
A distinction without a difference.


It does simply eschatology.

Typified and forshadowed are past tense, and the types and shadows pass away with the advent of the reality itself (Col 2:17; Heb 9:10, 10:1); i.e., the kingdom of God in Christ which is forever (Da 2:44).

The NT people of God, both Jews and Gentiles, which is the church, is the fullfilment (goal, end) of the ages (1Co 10:11).
There is no other age to come but eternity.

The major problem with this line of thinking is that it has ALWAYS been jew and gentile never one or the other, when it comes to salvation.

Noah was a gentile
Abraham was a gentile
Davids mother was a gentile
The city of ninevah was a gentile nations saved by an prophet of Isreal doing what the nation was supposed to be doing all along, telling them the gospel.

Salvation has always been jew and gentile

But scripture says some things on this earth and in history are relegated to jew, and some to gentile.. this is the aspect you all are ignoring.


The problem with the jews in Christ day, and even today is they do not see it, that is why they are blind, they think they got an automatic in by their laws. and heritage.. which was never the case. Not when he gave them the promise, Not when he gave them the law. not when he gave them anything. it was never about salvation. so we can not say the fulfiment has to do with salvation.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#30
Olam Ha-Ba: The Messianic Age

The world after the messiah comes is often referred to in Jewish literature as Olam Ha-Ba (oh-LAHM hah-BAH), the World to Come. This term can cause some confusion, because it is also used to refer to a spiritual afterlife. In English, we commonly use the term "messianic age" to refer specifically to the time of the messiah.

Olam Ha-Ba will be characterized by the peaceful co-existence of all people (Isaiah 2:4). Hatred, intolerance and war will cease to exist. Some authorities suggest that the laws of nature will change, so that predatory beasts will no longer seek prey and agriculture will bring forth supernatural abundance (Isaiah 11:6-11:9). Others, however, say that these statements are merely an allegory for peace and prosperity.

All of the Jewish people will return from their exile among the nations to their home in Israel (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). The law of the Jubilee will be reinstated.

In the Olam Ha-Ba, the whole world will recognize the Jewish G-d as the only true G-d, and the Jewish religion as the only true religion (Isaiah 2:3; 11:10; Micah 4:2-3; Zechariah 14:9). There will be no murder, robbery, competition or jealousy. There will be no sin (Zephaniah 3:13). Sacrifices will continue to be brought in the Temple, but these will be limited to thanksgiving offerings, because there will be no further need for expiatory offerings.

Some gentiles have tried to put an ugly spin on this theology, claiming that Jews plan to force people to convert to our religion, perhaps based on their own religion's history of doing exactly the same thing. That is not at all how Jews understand the messianic age. We believe that in that future time, everyone will simply know what the truth is, in the same way that we know that 2+2=4, and there will no longer be any reason to argue about it. It is much like a situation I witnessed at work once: two computer programmers were arguing loudly and at length about whether it was possible for a user to input data at a certain point in a program. Finally someone pressed a key and they all saw that nothing happened. Now they knew the truth, end of argument. When mashiach comes, theological truths will be equally obvious to mankind, and there will be no reason to argue about it.

What About Jesus?

Jews do not believe that Jesus was the mashiach. Assuming that he existed, and assuming that the Christian scriptures are accurate in describing him (both matters that are debatable), he simply did not fulfill the mission of the mashiach as it is described in the biblical passages cited above. Jesus did not do any of the things that the scriptures said the messiah would do.

On the contrary, another Jew born about a century later came far closer to fulfilling the messianic ideal than Jesus did. His name was Shimeon ben Kosiba, known as Bar Kokhba (son of a star), and he was a charismatic, brilliant, but brutal warlord. Rabbi Akiba, one of the greatest scholars in Jewish history, believed that Bar Kokhba was the mashiach. Bar Kokhba fought a war against the Roman Empire, catching the Tenth Legion by surprise and retaking Jerusalem. He resumed sacrifices at the site of the Temple and made plans to rebuild the Temple. He established a provisional government and began to issue coins in its name. This is what the Jewish people were looking for in a mashiach; Jesus clearly does not fit into this mold. Ultimately, however, the Roman Empire crushed his revolt and killed Bar Kokhba. After his death, all acknowledged that he was not the mashiach.

Throughout Jewish history, there have been many people who have claimed to be the mashiach, or whose followers have claimed that they were the mashiach: Shimeon Bar Kokhba, Shabbatai Tzvi, Jesus, and many others too numerous to name. Leo Rosten reports some very entertaining accounts under the entry for meshiekh in The New Joys of Yiddish. But all of these people died without fulfilling the mission of the mashiach; therefore, none of them were the mashiach. The mashiach and the Olam Ha-Ba lie in the future, not in the past.

Judaism 101: Mashiach: The Messiah < click
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#31
AMEN.


the messianic age (two ages) is indeed a known concept - Judaism (some forms) hold to it even to this day...they place it in the future (like some other belief systems); naturally - they rejected Jesus and His Kingdom...they're building their own, by their own power and authority.

well, with a little help from some friends.

Matthew 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mark 10
28Peter began to say to him, “See, we have left everything and followed you.” 29Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, 30who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life.
Notice something.

in this age, or the age to come..

must be another age coming.

but again, this is not a salvation issue, never has, never will be.. the jews got that wrong. darby and scofield got that wrong. And those who preach against a future millennial kingdom get that wrong./.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#32
Olam Ha-Ba: The Messianic Age

The world after the messiah comes is often referred to in Jewish literature as Olam Ha-Ba (oh-LAHM hah-BAH), the World to Come. This term can cause some confusion, because it is also used to refer to a spiritual afterlife. In English, we commonly use the term "messianic age" to refer specifically to the time of the messiah.

Olam Ha-Ba will be characterized by the peaceful co-existence of all people (Isaiah 2:4). Hatred, intolerance and war will cease to exist. Some authorities suggest that the laws of nature will change, so that predatory beasts will no longer seek prey and agriculture will bring forth supernatural abundance (Isaiah 11:6-11:9). Others, however, say that these statements are merely an allegory for peace and prosperity.

All of the Jewish people will return from their exile among the nations to their home in Israel (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). The law of the Jubilee will be reinstated.

In the Olam Ha-Ba, the whole world will recognize the Jewish G-d as the only true G-d, and the Jewish religion as the only true religion (Isaiah 2:3; 11:10; Micah 4:2-3; Zechariah 14:9). There will be no murder, robbery, competition or jealousy. There will be no sin (Zephaniah 3:13). Sacrifices will continue to be brought in the Temple, but these will be limited to thanksgiving offerings, because there will be no further need for expiatory offerings.

Some gentiles have tried to put an ugly spin on this theology, claiming that Jews plan to force people to convert to our religion, perhaps based on their own religion's history of doing exactly the same thing. That is not at all how Jews understand the messianic age. We believe that in that future time, everyone will simply know what the truth is, in the same way that we know that 2+2=4, and there will no longer be any reason to argue about it. It is much like a situation I witnessed at work once: two computer programmers were arguing loudly and at length about whether it was possible for a user to input data at a certain point in a program. Finally someone pressed a key and they all saw that nothing happened. Now they knew the truth, end of argument. When mashiach comes, theological truths will be equally obvious to mankind, and there will be no reason to argue about it.

What About Jesus?

Jews do not believe that Jesus was the mashiach. Assuming that he existed, and assuming that the Christian scriptures are accurate in describing him (both matters that are debatable), he simply did not fulfill the mission of the mashiach as it is described in the biblical passages cited above. Jesus did not do any of the things that the scriptures said the messiah would do.

On the contrary, another Jew born about a century later came far closer to fulfilling the messianic ideal than Jesus did. His name was Shimeon ben Kosiba, known as Bar Kokhba (son of a star), and he was a charismatic, brilliant, but brutal warlord. Rabbi Akiba, one of the greatest scholars in Jewish history, believed that Bar Kokhba was the mashiach. Bar Kokhba fought a war against the Roman Empire, catching the Tenth Legion by surprise and retaking Jerusalem. He resumed sacrifices at the site of the Temple and made plans to rebuild the Temple. He established a provisional government and began to issue coins in its name. This is what the Jewish people were looking for in a mashiach; Jesus clearly does not fit into this mold. Ultimately, however, the Roman Empire crushed his revolt and killed Bar Kokhba. After his death, all acknowledged that he was not the mashiach.

Throughout Jewish history, there have been many people who have claimed to be the mashiach, or whose followers have claimed that they were the mashiach: Shimeon Bar Kokhba, Shabbatai Tzvi, Jesus, and many others too numerous to name. Leo Rosten reports some very entertaining accounts under the entry for meshiekh in The New Joys of Yiddish. But all of these people died without fulfilling the mission of the mashiach; therefore, none of them were the mashiach. The mashiach and the Olam Ha-Ba lie in the future, not in the past.

Judaism 101: Mashiach: The Messiah < click
Why thank you for proving the jews are still blind to the gospel because of their unbelief. Then again, Paul said this would happen, until the age of the gentile has been completed.. So you are not showing us anything new, in fact your proving Paul is correct.

Now lets look forward to that day when ALL Isreal will be saved as their blindness is removed. and the whole world (jew and gentil alike) see and know the Lord Jesus in all his glory.


Then again, you say this day is not coming. What little hope this world has if you are right!
 

HEIsRiSen

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2013
487
11
0
#33
Galatians 3:27-29
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.



If we are Christ's, then we are of Abraham's seed, ALL heirs. Great thread Elin!

 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#34
Abiding.. I have answers you will not receive..

so we are at a stalemate..

Jesus did not show fulfilment of Dan 2 and 7.. they were still under the iron, or 4th kingdom in his day.. even in ad 70, they were still under the iron kingdom.. it had not become iron and clay yet.
who is "they"?
cut off branches?

what has that to do with anything?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#35
Why thank you for proving the jews are still blind to the gospel because of their unbelief. Then again, Paul said this would happen, until the age of the gentile has been completed.. So you are not showing us anything new, in fact your proving Paul is correct.

Now lets look forward to that day when ALL Isreal will be saved as their blindness is removed. and the whole world (jew and gentil alike) see and know the Lord Jesus in all his glory.


Then again, you say this day is not coming. What little hope this world has if you are right!
nah...that's old dispensationalism EG.
the church is Israel - jew and gentile.
it's pretty straight forward.

anyways:)

GOOD THREAD!!
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#36
Notice something.

in this age, or the age to come..

must be another age coming.
Mark 10
28Peter began to say to him, “See, we have left everything and followed you.” 29Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, 30who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life.

Matthew 13
The Parable of the Weeds Explained

36Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. 41The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

the harvest is the close of THIS age - the Messianic Age.

the Age after that is...."in the age to come eternal life" < eternity

there's only one final harvest.

Christ's Kingdom has no end...for those in it.

John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.



but again, this is not a salvation issue, never has, never will be.. the jews got that wrong. darby and scofield got that wrong. And those who preach against a future millennial kingdom get that wrong./.
it's been a salvation issue for many.
unfortunately.

thinking there's been some 2000 year blinding out of mercy or some Plan B is....unspeakable.

the jews are the losers in this game.
some prop them up in their error.

and they perish in their sins.

the rabbis are not entering, and they are stopping those who might.
and we give it a pass.

i wonder why?




but anyways:)

this is a good day!
today is the day of salvation.
 
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A

Abiding

Guest
#37
"They shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay" (DANIEL 2:43).

Youl be waiting forever for that kingdom since iron will not mix with clay. its been tried and tried and failed. A revived
Roman empire will never or cannot exist.

The next Kingdom which is the present kingdom Christ will reign from heaven until: 1 cor 15
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.[SUP]21 [/SUP]For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. [SUP]25 [/SUP]For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. [SUP]26 [/SUP]The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For “He has put all things under His feet.”[SUP][a][/SUP] But when He says “all things are put under Him,it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

Daniel 2:43-45


[SUP]43 [/SUP]And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure


Daniel 7:13-14


[SUP]13 [/SUP]I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.


Revelation 19:11-21


[SUP]11 [/SUP]And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#38
Yes. the kingdom is a spiritual kingdom. when have I ever denied this? why do you keep saying I deny this when I have over and over said this was true.

However. you miss the other part of the kingdom.

the whole world will worship him (has not happened yet)

Kings of the earth will bow to his authority (has not happened yet)

Are all dominions serving and obeying him now? (dan 7) no.. They have not yet

have all the kingdoms been crushed? (dan 2) seems like we still have kingdoms which are anti God in power all over the world.. why is that?

Has satan been bound so he can not decieve the nations?? (tell that to to all the world leaders who want nothing to do with God, even the one we have as president today? you do not think satan has influence over them?? and the world??

I can go on and on and on.. but as you said, you will not hear.




lol.. Ok.. Here we go.. again your speaking of salvation.. since when does the king sitting on davids throne have to do with salvation??

1. Davids throne was not in heaven, it was on earth.
2. Acts shows us that if Christ did not rise from the dead, he could never sit on David's throne. this he would have failed to fulfill the promise to david. This is the context. not that Jesus is sitting on Davids throne now.


What does scripture say about the davidic covenant? and davids throne?

2 Sam 7: 10 I will also appoint a place for My people Israel and will plant them, that they may live in their own place and not be disturbed again, nor will the wicked afflict them any more as formerly,
11 even from the day that I commanded judges to be over My people Israel; and I will give you rest from all your enemies. The Lord also declares to you that the Lord will make a house for you. 12 When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your [c]descendant after you, who will come forth from [d]you, and I will establish his kingdom.

Ez 37: 24 “My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd; and they will walk in My ordinances and keep My statutes and observe them. 25 They will live on the land that I gave to Jacob My servant, in which your fathers lived; and they will live on it, they, and their sons and their sons’ sons, forever; and David My servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will [h]place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever. 27 My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. 28 And the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever.”’”

Look at ez 37. can it be eternity he is talking about ( a new heaven and new earth?) no.. why?? he said he will multilply them. There will be no more childbirth in heaven,, He said all the nations will know he is God.. in eternity, everyone already knew he was god. that is what got them there in the first place. those who never figure this out, are in hell at that time.. so it has to be a temporal thing on earth.

What did God say would happen?

1 Samuel, David is promised Isreal will be given their land back. Will live in peace. Will no longer fear their enemy.
2. In ez (the prophetic fulfilment shown) They will no longer live in rebellion against God (Isreal) They will live in the land God gave Jacob (not heaven, but the land of canaan) You know. the SAME LAND THEIR FATHERS LIVE IN?? He will place them and multiply them. And the nations (gentiles) will know Jesus is the Lord over all.


if your going to try to interpret something.. You must interpret the whole things. The facts things have not happened yet, which God said WOULD happen at the fulfilment, proves it is not yet fulfilled.



Jesus is a priest forever. on earth or not.. And he is a king because he is a son of david.. being a levite means nothing.




God spun it into a future kingdom. The future kingdom has nothing to do with who is saved, how one is saved,, or anything about this, it has to do with Gods promises to people. Where Isreal is returned from being scattered. When they are place in their land, Where they follow ALL Gods commands, and turn from their rebellion completely. where they live in peace. Where Jesus sits on the throne of David.

Non of this has happened yet. so you can laugh all you want. and say we spin all we want, but it is you who are doing the spinning.



1. Davids throne was not in heaven, it was on earth.
2. Acts shows us that if Christ did not rise from the dead, he could never sit on David's throne. this he would have failed to fulfill the promise to david. This is the context. not that Jesus is sitting on Davids throne now.

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Ps 110:1Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.

1co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his (second) coming.
1co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
Acts 2:34-35
[SUP]34 [/SUP]“For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.

1co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Heb.2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all
in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.


Heb.10:12-13 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat
down on the right hand of God.
v.13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

1 Cor.15:27-28 For he hath put all things under his feet, But when he saith All things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put under him.
v.28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself
be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

And we know that the last enemies is death:1 Cor. 15:54-57 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put immortality,
then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,Death is swallowed up in
victory. v.55 O death where is the sting? O grave where is the victory?
v.56 For the sting of death is sin; and the strenght of the sin is the law.
v.57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

So, at present we cannot see Jesus Christ sitting at the right hand of God.
Rev.3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Jn.17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom that thou hast given me, be with me
where I am; that they may beheld my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Eph.4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#39
who is "they"?
cut off branches?

what has that to do with anything?
who is they? what does this have to do with the final kingdom which daniel was shown will be destroyed by christ? has nothing to do with cut off branches..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#40
Galatians 3:27-29
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.



If we are Christ's, then we are of Abraham's seed, ALL heirs. Great thread Elin!


lol.. yes we all are christs.. always have been always will be.

to bad some covenants do not have a thing to do with being a child of God... so why do we ignore these covenants?