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OK. Gotcha. Well, maybe we have the debate again then if faith is a work or not?
Anyways, I don't believe in any form of prevenient grace. Abraham did what he did because God had already intervened. He was already quickened by God as he obeyed His voice and kept His statues. Seeing the mission of Abraham I do not believe God would have left anything to "chance". The obedience of Abraham came not as a surprise to God, rather it was to teach Abraham how to walk in faith. Huge stuff.
Anyways, I don't believe in any form of prevenient grace. Abraham did what he did because God had already intervened. He was already quickened by God as he obeyed His voice and kept His statues. Seeing the mission of Abraham I do not believe God would have left anything to "chance". The obedience of Abraham came not as a surprise to God, rather it was to teach Abraham how to walk in faith. Huge stuff.
I think in critiquing one must keep in mind the difference between examining their Confessions (e.g. Belgic and Westminster) and their current teachings and practice. In the latter there is a huge rainbow to contend with and it is hard to chase down...and how much of it can we call 'Calvinism' that doesn't adhere to their Confessions? It seems easier to deal with the 'ideal' of the Confessions.
You are right about this, but it is the same thing with saying that "it is also possible that he knew God long before this", since that is also not biblical. Nevertheless, I was uncareful there and might have to retract the statement, for now. I did study up on it long ago...but I've forgotten the details of it. Quiet a few teachers says he was. Anyways, I'll check into it again. This aside: the meaty issue we discuss here and now is still if Abraham was chosen by God because of some quality in him (conditional election) or if God in His sovereignity based his choosing of Abraham because of His own will (unconditional election). Your take is?
If God knows all truth, then there is not any "chance".
Let me explain.
Suppose I am going to make a choice, either "A" or "B".
Suppose you say I chose "A". Is that a true statement? It is if I chose "A". If I chose "B", then it is not a true statement.
Let's say I chose "A". Then the statement that I chose "A" is a true statement.
But God knows ALL TRUTH! And so, God knows which choice I made, even though it is a free choice.
Abraham chose to sacrifice his son. That it a truth and God knew it because it is His nature to know ALL TRUTH.
It has nothing to do with seeing into the future or taking chances. Do you understand now?
This may sound a little contrived to you, and yet, it is no more contrived than saying that God chose certain people to be saved and others to be condemned, but yet He holds them accountable because they still "choose" whether to believe or not.
Let me explain.
Suppose I am going to make a choice, either "A" or "B".
Suppose you say I chose "A". Is that a true statement? It is if I chose "A". If I chose "B", then it is not a true statement.
Let's say I chose "A". Then the statement that I chose "A" is a true statement.
But God knows ALL TRUTH! And so, God knows which choice I made, even though it is a free choice.
Abraham chose to sacrifice his son. That it a truth and God knew it because it is His nature to know ALL TRUTH.
It has nothing to do with seeing into the future or taking chances. Do you understand now?
This may sound a little contrived to you, and yet, it is no more contrived than saying that God chose certain people to be saved and others to be condemned, but yet He holds them accountable because they still "choose" whether to believe or not.
E
No God said it. What merit is there in faith in someone else? and trusting in him? Thats is what God wanted us to do in the first place. It is what he created us for.. we are the ones who chose to leave his guidance, He made the way for us to be made right,, by his son,, He is not just going to give us it for no reason, he wants us to want it..
Scripture says abraham went to sacrifice his son, not because God made him, or intervined to make him do it, But because He trusted God, he knew he was able to raise him from the dead. to keep his promise..
Scripture says abraham went to sacrifice his son, not because God made him, or intervined to make him do it, But because He trusted God, he knew he was able to raise him from the dead. to keep his promise..
E
yes.
Because there can be no regeneration before justification.
and as for Gods grace being resisted, People do it all the time. Isreal did it for hundreds of years. As Jesus said, He wanted to take them as a mother hen takes her children, but they were not willing. they resisted his will and his grace.
But you know I still call ya my brother, because we both believe in salvation by grace,, and eternal security. because it is all of God.