Can you lose your Salvation?

[Meshullam]

Yea they are commandments.

'Let the sinners sin'.

Every man is rendered according to his deeds.

For lacking (foreign, as in, not knowing God) are 'spiritual predators', and illusioneers (particularly those attempting to 'cheat God into more wealth and possession), and the sexually immoral, and the murderers, and worshippers of 'images', and everyone who cherishes and practices lies.

 

[savedsince14]

No, salvation is not freeing us from sin. Getting saved does not stop us from sinning. If it did, then the doctrine of sinless perfection would be true. What salvation is is us accepting Jesus's payment for our sin DEBT in hell so we won't have to. It is like if a person goes and borrows money from a bank, nd I go pa ythat money back for them. then they don't have to pay that debt. When I aceppted Jesus as my saviour, I accepted His payment for my sin debt to God so I NEVER have to worry about going to hell.The bondage God's word is talking about the humanly undefeatable power satan had over man to get him to sin. When you get saved, you have to let God help you defeat satan over temptation or ,chances are, you will yield. Your soul is what is saved , not your flesh. We sin every day of our lives. And we have to ask God to forgive us every day.

 

[Skinski7]

No, salvation is not freeing us from sin. Getting saved does not stop us from sinning. If it did, then the doctrine of sinless perfection would be true. What salvation is is us accepting Jesus's payment for our sin DEBT in hell so we won't have to. It is like if a person goes and borrows money from a bank, nd I go pa ythat money back for them. then they don't have to pay that debt. When I aceppted Jesus as my saviour, I accepted His payment for my sin debt to God so I NEVER have to worry about going to hell.The bondage God's word is talking about the humanly undefeatable power satan had over man to get him to sin. When you get saved, you have to let God help you defeat satan over temptation or ,chances are, you will yield. Your soul is what is saved , not your flesh. We sin every day of our lives. And we have to ask God to forgive us every day.

Would you show where exactly the Bible teaches that Jesus "paid your sin debt."


My Bible teaches that Jesus purchased us from the dominion of sin so that we can be a servant of righteousness, not to remain servants of sin.

Jesus did not say anything about setting you free in position by paying your sin debt. Jesus said this...

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Free from what? Sin!

 

[Skinski7]

These are commandments are they not?

1 Corinthians 7:17-20

17*But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

18*Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.

19*Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

20*Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

Indeed if we are uncircumcised we can remain uncircumcised. If we are married we can remain married. If we are single we can remain single.

We come to Christ in the station of life we find ourselves in. This does not mean we come to Christ without forsaking our rebellion. We forsake our rebellion in coming to Christ exactly as the Bible teaches.

 

[HumbleMut]

What a debate
If we decide that we do not want anything to do with him (whether we were with him in the past or not) , we are in trouble. We have a choice... the prodigal son decided to return, and was welcomed back.

I choose to believe Jesus when he said, "all who come to me, I will surely not cast out." John 6:37
actually, my soul depends on his love and forgiveness. Is this not the case for all of us ?

 

[savedsince14]

Would you show where exactly the Bible teaches that Jesus "paid your sin debt."


My Bible teaches that Jesus purchased us from the dominion of sin so that we can be a servant of righteousness, not to remain servants of sin.

Jesus did not say anything about setting you free in position by paying your sin debt. Jesus said this...

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Free from what? Sin!

So are you saying that the doctrine of sinless perfection is right? I would like to see where that is taught in the Bible. If you think we don't sin after we are saved , then you are calling God a liar. God said in 1st John ,"if we say we have NO sin , we decieve ourselves and the truth is not in us." If you study the bible, as 2nd Timothy 2:15 says to do, you will find that we all owed God a sin debt. The only one who could pay the debt IN FULL was Jesus. You and I would've had to pay it in hell for all eternity. When Jesus said," ye are free indeed"<He was saying we are free from having to pay our sin debt in hell. If salvation was freeing us from our sin, then we wouldn't sin anymore. Satan's job is to tempt us an TRY to make us sin . We do decide whether or not we are going to yield to the temptation or not( thus our free will). That is why God said ," There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man. but God is faithful, who will NOT allow you to be tempted ABOVE that ye are able,but (and here's how God is willing to help us ) will with the temptation also make a way of escape that ye may be able to bear it. We have to have God's help to resist temptation. because we are no match for it alone. Also ,if sinless perfection was true what would we need God for? We wouldn't have to worry about satan anymore because we wouldn't sin anymore. What Jesus was simply teaching was if all you ever want to do is sin , then that is all you are ever going to do . God said there is pleasure in sin for a season,in other words, a short time. That is satans job , to make it look so good that we won't want to resist. That is why we have to depend on God to help us resist it. But the final choice is ours, whether we are going to yield or take God's way of escape. And He only provides that for people who belong to him(saved people). God said ,'If we confess our sin, He is faithful and just to forgive our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." So we have to ask daily for forgiveness because the Holy Spirit lives in us and convicts us when we do something wrong. And He only lives in saved people.

 

[Maynard]

Can you lose your Salvation?

Yes. Quite easily.

Once Saved, Always Saved?

Mark 13:13: and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Romans 11:22: Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.

1 Corinthians 9:27: but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

2 Peter 2: 20-22: For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire.

1 Corinthians 10:12: Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

Galatians 5:4: You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

Hebrews 6:4-6: For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. (Once saved, but then lost their salvation)

Hebrews 10:26-29: For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?

1 Samuel 10:6: Then the spirit of the LORD will come mightily upon you (Saul), and you shall prophesy with them and be turned into another man.
Then....
1 Samuel 16:14: Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him.

Philippians 2:12: Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

Of course the parable of the sower....
Matthew 13:18-23: "Hear then the parable of the sower. When any one hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what is sown in his heart; this is what was sown along the path. As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away. As for what was sown among thorns, this is he who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the delight in riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. As for what was sown on good soil, this is he who hears the word and understands it; he indeed bears fruit, and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty."

Revelation 2:4-5: Yet I hold this against you: you have lost the love you had at first. Realize how far you have fallen. Repent, and do the works you did at first. Otherwise, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

1 Cor 6:9-10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Luke 15:32: "It was fitting to make merry and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.'" (He REPENTED, therefore exists once again in the Father's good grace)




Salvation requires a real response from us in our lives, a response which goes well beyond a one-time salvation prayer "accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior".
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
Our Lord then goes on to list good works which reflect a true faith.

God gave man free will. Once saved then a person can later reject God and freely forsake their salvation. If someone has a change of heart after accepting Christ then God does not force them to spend eternity with Him. A person is not bound by chains (so to speak) to salvation, but can rather simply walk away from it. Mortal sin also separates us from God, and if we wish to be saved again then we must repent of that sin, otherwise remain separated from God.

 

[tribesman]

Yes. Quite easily.

Once Saved, Always Saved?

Mark 13:13: and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Romans 11:22: Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.

1 Corinthians 9:27: but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

2 Peter 2: 20-22: For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire.

1 Corinthians 10:12: Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

Galatians 5:4: You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

Hebrews 6:4-6: For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. (Once saved, but then lost their salvation)

Hebrews 10:26-29: For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?

1 Samuel 10:6: Then the spirit of the LORD will come mightily upon you (Saul), and you shall prophesy with them and be turned into another man.
Then....
1 Samuel 16:14: Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him.

Philippians 2:12: Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

Of course the parable of the sower....
Matthew 13:18-23: "Hear then the parable of the sower. When any one hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what is sown in his heart; this is what was sown along the path. As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away. As for what was sown among thorns, this is he who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the delight in riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. As for what was sown on good soil, this is he who hears the word and understands it; he indeed bears fruit, and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty."

Revelation 2:4-5: Yet I hold this against you: you have lost the love you had at first. Realize how far you have fallen. Repent, and do the works you did at first. Otherwise, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

1 Cor 6:9-10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Luke 15:32: "It was fitting to make merry and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.'" (He REPENTED, therefore exists once again in the Father's good grace)




Salvation requires a real response from us in our lives, a response which goes well beyond a one-time salvation prayer "accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior".
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
Our Lord then goes on to list good works which reflect a true faith.

Ever heard about the parable of the wheat and tares?

God gave man free will. Once saved then a person can later reject God and freely forsake their salvation. If someone has a change of heart after accepting Christ then God does not force them to spend eternity with Him. A person is not bound by chains (so to speak) to salvation, but can rather simply walk away from it. Mortal sin also separates us from God, and if we wish to be saved again then we must repent of that sin, otherwise remain separated from God.

Saved again...and again? Undo and redo salvation? Going in and out of salvation at own will? Clearly you are ignorant about what you speak. Just repeating what you have learned in your RC tradition. Council of Trent all over the map.

 

[Maynard]

Saved again...and again? Undo and redo salvation? Going in and out of salvation at own will? Clearly you are ignorant about what you speak. Just repeating what you have learned in your RC tradition. Council of Trent all over the map.

I believe what is taught by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, in its entirety. You believe that an unrepentant sinner is saved, which is clearly false teaching and heresy. And yet you call me ignorant.

 

[tribesman]

I believe what is taught by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, in its entirety. You believe that an unrepentant sinner is saved, which is clearly false teaching and heresy. And yet you call me ignorant.

You are lying. I have never said that unrepentant sinners are saved. If you want to gainsay me, then be accurate in your critique and slander not. Among those who are not repentant I believe those who trust self and false gospels are to be numbered.

 

[homwardbound]

Many of you folks are holding to a view that salvation is this position you hold APART from the actual CONDITION of the heart


The Bible very clearly states that...

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

The Bible also states this...

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Dominion means to "rule over." The reason sin is to not have dominion is due to not being "under law" but rather "under grace."

Now if we look in in the next chapter it says this...

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Read those scriptures several time and carefully put them all together. What do they teach?

1. Sin shall not have dominion over a Christian.
2. Sin has dominion due to the law (transgression is a violation of the law 1Joh 3:4).
3. Being in the flesh works fruit unto death by the motions of sins.
4. Delivered from the law to serve in newness of Spirit.

Let's add a few more scriptures. First let's demonstrate how the "motions of sins produce death."

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

The above passage clearly had "death" being the result of "yielding to temptation" which is wrought by the "lusts of the flesh." Yet it is important to establish that this death is ONLY produced when there is LAW. Paul describes the death as follows...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Carefully read the above passage again. Notice it teaches that it is "the law" or "the commandment" which GIVES KNOWLEDGE and it is "the knowledge of sin" which gives "sin the power to kill." Hence Paul was alive without the law but when the commandment came sin revived and he died.

This is what happened to Adam and Eve in the garden. They were both innocent and alive walking with God. God then gave them a commandment to not do something. Instead of obeying God Eve yielded to the lusts of her flesh (Gen 3:6) and sinned unto death. The spiritual connection between her and God was broken and thus she died to God having her conscience defiled. Adam followed her example and died also.

Sin is defined in the text 3 times in the New Testament.

Disobedience.
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Disobedience.
Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Disobedience.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

All the verses above have sin defined as either a violation of a command or a violation of conscience. The sin that kills is disobedience.

John describes TWO KINDS of sin.

1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Now go back and reread Rom 7:7-11 about how sin kills. Paul is describing there "sin unto death" which is ALWAYS presumptuous sin. It is simply CHOOSING to do wrong when YOU KNOW to do right.

Now go back and reread Rom 7:4-6. Dead to the law THROUGH the body of Christ so we can be MARRIED TO ANOTHER which WE SERVE in NEWNESS OF SPIRIT.

The "serving in newness of Spirit" is KEY. Why is it key? Paul writes this...

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Being under grace means YOU SERVE RIGHTEOUSNESS instead of serving sin. Read the passage above for it clearly teaches that "being made free from sin" is connected to "obeying from the heart." If a person is still "sinning unto death" (disobedience) then THEY ARE STILL A SLAVE OF SIN (Rom 6:16).

Remember the very first verse I quoted?

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Jesus actually stated the following...

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

SO WHAT IS SALVATION?

Salvation is being SET FREE FROM SIN. Both the dominion of sin and the bondage of sin.

Many of you believe in some abstract positional salvation which is simply not taught in the Bible. You are holding to a myth and believing in doctrines of men.

Real Christians DO NOT SIN UNTO DEATH. Real Christians KEEP THEMSELVES instead.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

How do they keep themselves?

The walk after the Spirit.

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.




This whole debate of "can you lose your salvation" is pure foolishness because the "salvation" in question is not salvation at all.

Heed this wanring of Paul to Timothy...

1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen. The first to Timothy was written from Laodicea, which is the chiefest city of Phrygia Pacatiana.

Science is knowledge. Oppositions of false knowledge are debates where BOTH SIDES are in error. If your debating about whether salvation can be lost or not but you are not holding to a bliblical view of salvation then you are blowing smoke and wasting your time, deceiving and being deceived.

STOP IT! Dig deep into your Bibles and BELIEVE WHAT IT SAYS. Stop isolating and proof texting passages out of context.

MOST who profess Jesus Christ are going to be rejected at the judgment. Don't be one of them.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY.


Few will find life.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

FEW FEW FEW FEW FEW FEW FEW FEW FEW.

Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Skinski all this is done in me by God stress hath seased it is finished. Is all that you post about here done in you? Has God by Faith completed the work of christ in you yet? He has in me andI am sooooooo!! thankful for I am at rest as he is. It sounds as if you are not yet at rest in him as if you are stillworkoing at it are you brother?

 

[homwardbound]

Yet you negate the true definition of faith which is not simply "mental assent or trust" but involves YIELDING/DOING.

Noah built an ark by faith. Abraham left his homeland by faith. Abel made an offering by faith.

Faith = Doing because you are persuaded in the mind that what God says is true. This is why faith without works is dead because faith is ACTIVE. Faith MOVES. Faith PRODUCES.

Living by faith means abiding in Christ which means you are a doer of the word. It matters very much what you do.

Look at what Jesus taught...

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Do you think Jesus was joking? No he wasn't. What you do matters and you will be judged by what you do.

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Why do you disconnect faith from doing Grandpa?

We do not disconnect Faith from Doing as I have even said to you before Works is by-product of faith in Christ Jesus
Romans 4:2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God

Faith produces works of God not self, God's Love the love described in 1 cor 13 is what God wants all his children to receive and this type of love is not natural for the common man. This type of Love that is the fulfillment of the Law can only be received by and from God after one has been freed from Law and one can only be freed from Law through the death of Christ. Then they see their death and ask God for new life and God by ones Faith gives this as a free gift in the Love package as in 1Cor 13 thus the Law is fulfilled in us by Faith and we do works of Faith and God is that Judge not you or you or you God is. Now if we were running around together here in life and you physically saw me do some harm to my neighbor I would expect you to tell me what I did, make me aware of it in the Love of God and even here on this sight if I offend you, but for me I will be judged by no man, I am who I am by the grace of God
Thanks Skinski

 

[homwardbound]

i agree with you.

I would add though that faith is a work.

For faith is the dynamic working principle by which we are doers of the word.

Many in the church system do disconnect faith from doing because they teach that one can be "faithful" and yet "disobedient" at the same time. The only way to logically make such a conclusion to define faith as simply "mental assent" apart from doing because if one is in rebellion to God they most certainly ARE NOT a doer of the word.

This is why there is no salvation in sin (willful sin/rebellion). Which is why there is no such thing as a Christian murderer/adulterer (body or in mind)/porn watcher/drunkard/thief/ etc.

The work of Faith in Christ is to enter God's rest and this can only be done by belief. Yes there is a lot of heresy out in the world today and it is not necessarrily up to us or our Job to defile others. what is our Job is to show the Faith that God gave us the LOVE and by his kindness is what leads one to repentance, and I am not advocating enablement to sin.
I do remember this verse though and it stops me makes me think
Romans 16:26but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith—
obedience comes from what Faith?
And the next one stops me in my tracks,even though God has completed in me by Faith what he wanted completed in me and that is his Love that thuis world can not recieve and never will
2 Corinthians 10:6And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.
Even though by Faith my obedience in God by Christ I also remember the woman brought to Chrsit caught in Adultery
and he said to her after they left one by one convicted themselves Christ not convicted says

John 8:9-11
[SUP]9 [/SUP]At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
[SUP]11 [/SUP]“No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
So how does one go andleave their life of sin? by Faith How does one find Faith in God and rest they work hard
Hebrews 4:6
[SUP]Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of [/SUP][SUP]unbelief
[/SUP]Hebrews 4:11[SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.[/SUP]
See Skinski, without belief we will never enter his rest and if we do not desire todowahtis right and just take in for granted as I thinki is waht you have seen a lot of People taking this amazing salvation by Faith for granted, well brother that is on them. I tell you the truth those that want to know God, God knows who those are and will reveal truth to those as God is doing to and for you through CC.
In the LOVE of God

 

[homwardbound]

The last line of hebrews 5 says something like

But every person whose food is milk (whose teaching is not whole) is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, because he is an infant. But solid food (whole teaching) is for the mature, those whose senses are instructed to distinguish good and evil, because they have practiced (do practice still).

So therefore, this next section (hebrews 6) talks about people who CAN rightly distinguish good and bad. (notice the word milk is used. It is good to reference this against 1 corinthians 1-3 to get the idea of what it means to 'stay in the holy spirit', like Paul. Even Paul faltered at times, but he continued to try onwards, anyways);

Hebrews 6

Because of this, let us let lie the beginning of the message of The Messiah and let us go on to perfection; or are you laying again another foundation for conversion from dead works and for faith in God and For the teaching of cleansing, the laying on of hands, for the resurrection from among death, and for eternal judgment?

We shall do this if God permits (which he never has). But those who have descended once to cleansing and tasted the gift from Heaven and received The Spirit of Holiness, And tasted the immaculate word of God and the power of the future world, Who would sin again and again crucify The Son of God, and become contemptible, cannot then be renewed to conversion.

This is a teaching of after death!

Of things Paul speaks about in his letters. Of hidden mysteries concerning the holy spirit, concerning perfection, concerning man's sinful state itself and our inability to be 'sinless' while on Earth.

'For indeed, the man who dies is freed from the state of sin'.

If someone were to sin after death, there can be no renewal. Yet in life, there are many of us who live accursed in sin yet try to cultivate holiness. Even the apostles faltered at times!

Paul says 'I partake of that which I know I should not', in a letter he writes concerning these very things!

He starts of almost referencing this passage, saying 'I have had to give you milk and have not been able to give you solid food, as though you are still infants to the messiah'!!

I am not sure how you got what you got out of Hebrews 5:11-6:8, but brother Paul desired us and the Corinthians to leave the milk of the word and move onto maturity if God will permit. And God will if one asks in Faith and God will reveal this maturity if one is ready to receive it, The Corinthians were not at that time ready but later did receive the maturity in Christ and this is revealed in 2 Cor. 7
It starts out in Hebrews 5:11 that we ought to be teachers but are unskillful when only on milk, Ex: a baby maybe two years old on milk not solid food, not yet ready to eat meat
This is how it is when we are first born of God we are infants, and a lot never grow up. But God through Paul is saying God will bring you to the maturity when you are willing and asking for God to grow you to maturity and you will receive the engrafted word the LOVE of God in pure form as described in 1 Cor 13. A natural man can't do what is said Love is in 1 cor.13. The natural man has already been born again in the Spirit of Christ and God his Father by belief when one first accepted Christ in their heart. this natural man that you and a lot believe are still this natural person are not. Not from God the Father's point of view. You are a new creation in Christ Jesus born again now of the Spirit of God. The problem is you are not mature and are growing or not. this is where we are to leave the milk and move onto maturity (perfection in Christ as you already are perfect in Christ from Father's stand point that is) this is to bring you the realization of who you are in Christ, and that when you are in Christ being in the spirit you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh. So this is to bring you home in the Spirit and sin no more because you are born now of the Spirit and who would ever want to leave this? Therefore there is no more sacrifice for sin ever again
Please stop believing the lie that you can't become one with God because of your flesh that because of our bodies that are not redeemed we will continue in sin and this is true of the flesh and flesh only. So what can we do about this? Can we believe that we are dead to sin by God? Can we believe as Paul?
Galatians 2:20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

And when Paul did not love his neighbor as self he never once after salvation ever asked for more forgiveness from God his neighbor yes and did forgot what is behind and moved on toward s the mark of the high calling that is in all believers.
praying that this helps you to grow in this amazing salvation through Christ Jesus?
Romans 6:11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 Peter 2:24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
Colossians 2:13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Romans 6:2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

If you believe and have received and are aware of what it is that God hath done in you then oyu will onto maturity and bewho you are in him perfect as he is perfect Glory Halleluah. But remember this is not your perfectness it is his that hegave toyouas a free gift
Romans 5:15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
The above is abounded unto you
Ephesians 2:8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 4:7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
James 1:17Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning
1 Peter 4:10As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
Today is the day of salvation recieve the gift of God and move onto maturity grow in the manifold grace of God

 

[homwardbound]

This life is only the beginning.

I believe that God says something like this to humanity;

'Leave my house, sinners, until I figure out a way to teach you that it's best for all of you to just acknowledge and follow what I say. Look at the alternative. You are IMMERSED in it'.

'For God has contained all mankind in disobedience that he may have mercy on all'.

And this is been done today through Christ his only begotten Son

 

[homwardbound]

Faith is Something that is hoped for, but more than that, it is 'trust' that it WILL come.

When we draw back from all hopes, we draw back from our 'trust' in God.

And God takes no pleasure in that. That does not mean that God still does not love, nor help. But his pleasure of that man is dwindled. Because God does not LIKE to see us struggle in our trusting him. God does not take pleasure in our pain.

Yes and that is why he wants us to see
John 18:36Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Romans 8:16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
1 Corinthians 2:12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1 Corinthians 2:13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
2 Corinthians 3:6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
sowe won't draw back thanks Meshullam

 

[homwardbound]

Death is not the saviour from sin. Life in Christ is what saves us from sin and we are to partake in that NOW for...

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Truth Shinski except the death is what freed the israelites from the Law of Moses and would have brought them to life in Christ in the resurrection to the commandment which is LOVE best defined in 1 Cor.13 which is only rceived by belief.
the unbeleivers of this amazing salvation are the dogs sorcerers whoremongers murderers idolaters have chosen to not believe and disregard truth and searching it out

 

[homwardbound]

These are commandments are they not?

1 Corinthians 7:17-20

17*But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

18*Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.

19*Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

20*Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

Tell me what are the commandments of Christ?

 

[justamazed]

Tell me what are the commandments of Christ?

Hear Ye ALL OF ISRAEL! The LORD our God is ONE LORD. And you shall love Him with ALL your mind, heart and soul. And the second is JUST LIKE IT. To love your neighbor as yourself. Upon these two commandments hang ALL the law and prophets. That being said, Jesus' command is to LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS HE LOVED US!

 

[homwardbound]

So are you saying that the doctrine of sinless perfection is right? I would like to see where that is taught in the Bible. If you think we don't sin after we are saved , then you are calling God a liar. God said in 1st John ,"if we say we have NO sin , we decieve ourselves and the truth is not in us." If you study the bible, as 2nd Timothy 2:15 says to do, you will find that we all owed God a sin debt. The only one who could pay the debt IN FULL was Jesus. You and I would've had to pay it in hell for all eternity. When Jesus said," ye are free indeed"<He was saying we are free from having to pay our sin debt in hell. If salvation was freeing us from our sin, then we wouldn't sin anymore. Satan's job is to tempt us an TRY to make us sin . We do decide whether or not we are going to yield to the temptation or not( thus our free will). That is why God said ," There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man. but God is faithful, who will NOT allow you to be tempted ABOVE that ye are able,but (and here's how God is willing to help us ) will with the temptation also make a way of escape that ye may be able to bear it. We have to have God's help to resist temptation. because we are no match for it alone. Also ,if sinless perfection was true what would we need God for? We wouldn't have to worry about satan anymore because we wouldn't sin anymore. What Jesus was simply teaching was if all you ever want to do is sin , then that is all you are ever going to do . God said there is pleasure in sin for a season,in other words, a short time. That is satans job , to make it look so good that we won't want to resist. That is why we have to depend on God to help us resist it. But the final choice is ours, whether we are going to yield or take God's way of escape. And He only provides that for people who belong to him(saved people). God said ,'If we confess our sin, He is faithful and just to forgive our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." So we have to ask daily for forgiveness because the Holy Spirit lives in us and convicts us when we do something wrong. And He only lives in saved people.

savedsince 14 where in 1 John 1 especially 1:9 after recieving the forgiveness admitting that Iahve sinned ang God is just to forgive me and nowthat I have done this where in this new Covenant does the word say that we are to continue to ask for more and more forgivenss? I have not found this anywhere after the death of Christ that we are to coninue to ask from God for more forgiveness. Is it not true that Christ was and is the last sacrifice for sin? The last shedding of bood? and that there is no forgiveness without the shedding of blood? And did not John the Baptist state ashe saw the Messiah coming to him Beholdthe Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the World?
So in Hebrews 6 where it states that there is no more repentance would that be that there is no more forgivenss and if one ask they are in essence crucifying the Lord all over again as it is stated there, needing us moving onto the finalization of the cross and that God does not need our help and we do not need his help in forsakng sin? Because he already took it away so by ones belief it is taken away in you the believer by God not by works, it is a free gift is it not?
Just saying brother God has done it all for us and those that believe rest in him in his righteousness freed from trying to be sinless for God did by faith in God period