Sovereignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man
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E
No your not staying simple. Your falling to theology.
The penalty of sin is death. A judicial term. Life can not be given until the penalty is removed. This is judicially called justification, or declared rightious.
we are justified as a result of faith. not as a result of regeneration. The justification causes rgeneration.
As John said in his letter. It is those who recieve Christ which are given the power to become sons. it is simple. (yet so hard. which is why so very few will get it and enter through the narrow gate. )
The penalty of sin is death. A judicial term. Life can not be given until the penalty is removed. This is judicially called justification, or declared rightious.
we are justified as a result of faith. not as a result of regeneration. The justification causes rgeneration.
As John said in his letter. It is those who recieve Christ which are given the power to become sons. it is simple. (yet so hard. which is why so very few will get it and enter through the narrow gate. )
A
This morning after catching up on the thread scriptures have been running through my head.
Mostly things Jesus said. Parables, and such. All seem to soo badly contradict what im hearing.
Lost treasure, lost coin. Faith that comes by hearing etc. soo many. May as well cut out the
gospels they are so misleading. He taught what faith was, how to use it etc. Did He not know
they didnt need all that info?
Mostly things Jesus said. Parables, and such. All seem to soo badly contradict what im hearing.
Lost treasure, lost coin. Faith that comes by hearing etc. soo many. May as well cut out the
gospels they are so misleading. He taught what faith was, how to use it etc. Did He not know
they didnt need all that info?
Repeating again...The penalty was removed by way of Christ's sacrifice. God's people were dead in their sins when God saved them. Faith is the instrument where with justification is received. Justification is not separate from regeneration. Believers are said to be "born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God". A passive reception where God works all.
Time to hit the sack soon. G'night!
Time to hit the sack soon. G'night!
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Nope. . .when the Bible was translated into English, "might" meant "ability, to be able."
When "through him might believe" was translated into English, it meant that through Jesus they would have the "ability, be able to" believe.
Apart from Jesus, there is no ability to believe.
You have to know the meaning of the words at the time they were used, because meanings can change.
From God's mouth to your ear. . .
When "through him might believe" was translated into English, it meant that through Jesus they would have the "ability, be able to" believe.
Apart from Jesus, there is no ability to believe.
You have to know the meaning of the words at the time they were used, because meanings can change.
From God's mouth to your ear. . .
Scratch that ... i.e.... nevermind. I don't want to know. I've derailed Elin's thread more than I've wanted to. My apologies Elin
Dont worry about the thread....just dont get into a neverending nothingness
(Elin)
That was not from me.
And your complaint against abiding by your word remains baseless and without merit.
yes, I apologise I quoted Abiding by mistake
However the fact remains, if you have an issue with people derailing your thread, I must repeat, you need to be consistent, and ask all people not discussing the title of your thread not to derail it.
I simply re-entered it as clearly someone was inferring I was posting differently to what I was posting, I am quite entitled to correct that view, I then respnded to their further posts
You either have a problem with everyone derailing your thread as you see it, or no one derailing it, you need to be consistent.
E
You miss the whole point of John chapter 1.
1. The darkness did not comprehend the light. so what did God do?
2. Sent a witness, so that he could bear witness of that light, that all have the ability to believe.
3. Then he tells us what gave us the power to become children of God
It was NOT election
It was NOT because he chose us in some random unknown reason.
It was not because they were regenerated first.
it is because they RECIEVED HIM.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
the power or ability is through belief. not some theological term.
1. The darkness did not comprehend the light. so what did God do?
2. Sent a witness, so that he could bear witness of that light, that all have the ability to believe.
3. Then he tells us what gave us the power to become children of God
It was NOT election
It was NOT because he chose us in some random unknown reason.
It was not because they were regenerated first.
it is because they RECIEVED HIM.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
the power or ability is through belief. not some theological term.
C
Php 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
I cannot deny that the Spirit works on the children of wrath so they can (Does not God desire ALL to come to a faith which saves):
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Act 18:27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
And by the gracious act of God, salvation is through faith and no longer through the Law.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
And how does one believe through grace:
Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
And how do we receive the Spirit of God:
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
How does one hear the faith:
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Is it not true that the children of the flesh mentioned in 1 Corinthians 2 is also mentioned here and would seem they have chosen the flesh over the spirit:
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
I cannot deny that the Spirit works on the children of wrath so they can (Does not God desire ALL to come to a faith which saves):
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Act 18:27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
And by the gracious act of God, salvation is through faith and no longer through the Law.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
And how does one believe through grace:
Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
And how do we receive the Spirit of God:
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
How does one hear the faith:
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Is it not true that the children of the flesh mentioned in 1 Corinthians 2 is also mentioned here and would seem they have chosen the flesh over the spirit:
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
A
Who picks the deep from the shallow? Who makes that judgement?
Does 95+% mislead? This sounds alot like Gnosticism to me. Doesnt it?
Everything you teach ive traced back to men. Some who were gnostics.
They were the Great men, who taught what today is called Orthodoxy.
Yet it had its beginning centuries after the church began.
Now it may be a coincidence, but it does make me very on guard.
Does 95+% mislead? This sounds alot like Gnosticism to me. Doesnt it?
Everything you teach ive traced back to men. Some who were gnostics.
They were the Great men, who taught what today is called Orthodoxy.
Yet it had its beginning centuries after the church began.
Now it may be a coincidence, but it does make me very on guard.
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No. Your issue was with the fact the thread was being derailed where I was concerned. I have told you, I re-entered the debate to correct a post of mine being misintepreted, something I am quite entitled to do, my posts after that were in response to posts made to me which had nothing to do with the subject of your thread
The truth is, you disasgree with my views and that in truth is why you took issue with me, yet as you agree with others views far more you have not asked them not to derail your thread.
You need to be honest, and consistent
The truth is, you disasgree with my views and that in truth is why you took issue with me, yet as you agree with others views far more you have not asked them not to derail your thread.
You need to be honest, and consistent