Abortion

Someone who thinks women going to bars are the only victims of rape aren't really serious about discussing forcible sex because they have no concept of what rape is.

The tragedy in the ultra-right wing anti-choice agenda is that there are those who demand a fertile young woman, which today can be an eight year old, who conceives due to father incest must carry the seed he deposited to term.

That the baby that is not going to have a real life because they have birth defects detected in utero that preclude their ever being able to see, hold their head up, walk, talk, hear, or function independently because their physiological impairments preclude that ever happening, must be brought to term so that that poor deformed creation of birth defects can at least be tallied as a victory for the pro-life agenda. Until they die attached to machines that cost tax payers or their parent(s) a fortune. Because mercy is not part of the agenda criteria.
This was the case when a woman in central America found out her baby had Anencephaly and would never survive for long post-utero.

It is a shame when the cry for "one more" outweighs empathy and mercy for a raped child or woman. If the ultra-right extremists committed their lives and resources to adopting the born yet homeless babies in the world they'd set a better example than to argue for increase in population no matter the conditions that await the fetus once its mother is forced to give them life.

Correction. What you haven't read.
We were done when you presumed to tell women they have no choice but to consent to your opinion about their womb.

I'm pretty sure the rapist does get tracked down once the woman reports it. But it's the fact on the woman not giving consent and having to go through the pain that the rapist inflicted on them, not caring as to whether she gets pregnant let alone not care about her wellbeing, otherwise they wouldn't have raped. It's scary knowing that people seem to not really care about the viewpoint of the rape victim if it came down as to what the victim does if she finds out that she is pregnant. If she does go through the pregnancy, what about the well being of the child once the child knows what happened to their mother and if the mother may start to resent the child over something that they both had no control over as the result of their own mental well being? What about the child's own mental well being and how they take it on themselves throughout their own life? It's not some point blank of an issue, that again, we have no say on since we're not faced with this type of issue and what one decides to do about it. It's wrong to make that decision for them and label them as a bad person because they went with something we wouldn't agree with.

The original intent of this topic was great, but the direction it is going is making me rather p/o'ed myself and I'll refrain after this post. I just don't like how one sided the situation is and even with my own opinion/viewpoint wouldn't justify for those who actually are raped victims or results of rape. While the number of abortions are small within that community (around 6%, I think?), it still doesn't justify for us to be their judge.

jsr1221, it really is ignorance to think rapes only happen at bars.
Actually, most rapists are well known by the victim.

Please stop blaming the victim, that way of thinking can justify just about any evil.

That being said, no, I do not support abortion in any shape or form. Killing an innocent life does not really help the situation. There is adoption if the mother feels she cannot raise the child. I do not believe anyone can be forced to do anything, we are given free will, but this is just what I personally believe, murder of a child has no excuse.

The baby isn't granted the right to vote either. They're not granted any rights until they're born. In fact, the Bible tells us that they're not even a living soul until they take their first breath. Which only happens outside the womb when they're born.

I don't understand why a fetus, even at the stage where it is a zygote, is presumed to have more rights at that stage than the woman in who's body that zygote resides.
When does a woman surrender her rights as a woman because she's fertile and carrying a fetus? A fetus that, if they're female and grow to be a fertile woman, will lose their rights at that point should they become pregnant.

At one time birth control was illegal in this country. People that were ultra-right extremists then argued that it was immoral to stop the natural procreation of life. Every ejaculation a man made was believed to have a right to install a baby into a woman. Women were property back then too. They had no rights because they were female.

Now in the 21st century that mind set is still actively pursuing enslaving women as incubators because males are believed to have every right to see their sperm come to term. Whether a woman wants that for herself or not. And the horror that compounds that agenda is those ultra-right extremists argue this in the case of rape and or incest. Be the victim a fertile child or a grown woman.

It is never a moral argument that has true and proper standing when that argument states categorically that a woman is officially second class because she has a womb. And therefore all she can choose to do is bring the sperm that deposits itself in her to term and against her will.

How many babies, in the time it took to read the pages accrued to this point in this thread, have died in Africa because their mothers had no choice but to give birth, while they also had no food to feed that what was born?

How many babies the world over are born because there is no choice but that and yet there is no food, no healthy living conditions, to welcome that baby?
How many cultures deem women second class? Didn't we learn anything from the scriptures where women are just that in the old testament?
We can't argue "the Bible says", and hope to be free independent women today. Because the Bible says that a raped daughter can be sold to her rapist for 40 pieces of silver. Ten more than what Judas received selling Christ to the Jewish authorities in the temple.
Or she can be killed along with her rapist if she "enjoyed" being raped.

Or as scriptures commanded women, to be subservient and obedient unto their husbands. That's quite a wide license there if one chooses to create a fundamental household.

If it is all a matter of respect for life, why aren't women respected to make a personal choice for their life that is absolutely no one elses business? And if they want to make it their business, how many here who are ultra-right pro-life have adopted the unwanted born babies that women chose to deliver to life and then chose to deliver to an adoption agency?

It is very easy to tell women what they should do based on one's personal opinion that tells those women they have no right to decide what resides in their own body.
However, taking personal responsibility to take a baby into one's home and raise that baby that one first demanded had to be born against its mothers will is quite another matter.

So, how many here who are pro-life have demonstrated they are also pro-adoption?

I've done nothing more than offer my opinion on this subject the whole time. To be honest I am very curious where I missed God endorsing abortion in the bible. Can you please give me the scriptures you're referring to? And you’re building a straw man with this,“presumed to tell women they have no choice but to consent to your opinion about their womb”. Nope, they can do whatever they want with it, I am just denying they have the right to decide who lives and dies. Again KILLING BABIES IS WRONG. I would really love to see how many of the 50 million+ abortions committed in this country were because of a raped woman, or one that had to choose between her life and the babies. To see exactly how many, percentage wise, actually use abortion for these reasons up to how many do it simple to avoid an inconvenience in their livers. But chin up, it is legal so no matter what my opinion may be you can still murder as many babies as you want.

Did you know that most States have laws that permit a rapist to sue for parental right to the offspring they deposited in their rape victim? Should that victim/survivor choose to carry his sperm to term?

[h=1]Child custody rights for rapists? Most states have them
[/h]By Ed Payne and Ted Rowlands, CNN
Thu August 1, 2013

Not once did I say it's the victim's fault. I have a sister who is in abusive relationship. No one has seen or heard from her for a couple years. For all I know, she could be unconscious somewhere. So NEVER would I blame the woman if she was raped. I know what that does to a woman and a family. So please don't assume otherwise. I was replying to a post that Blue made about being in a bar. I know rape can happen anywhere.

I'm sorry to hear about your sister. Let's use this opportunity to pray together for her, that God will open up a way for her and deliver her from the abuser and that she will soon make contact with her family and others who love her. Holy Spirit, please intercede for her through us. Amen in Jesus' name.

Yes psychology of abuse is very tricky part. The victim becomes more predisposed to not get out of the situation. Praying that God will strengthen her and make her wise.

One of my psychology classes was forensic psychology. In it we covered the psychology of abuse. Man, talk about emotional. A lot of people know the exact words to say to a woman to get them to go home with them.. Let's pray for more awareness of this type of behavior. So hopefully the number of rapes start to go down. And my sister has a six-year-old boy that no one has talked to or seen. So it's even sadder when an innocent child is thrown into the mix.

While I am against killing babies, I have to agree with you on that side note. A rapist should not have a part in any decisions regarding the child. He lost that right when he abused the mother, and additionally a man who is able to do something atrocious to someone weaker than him is not a good example or suitable to raise a child at all. When the child is an adult, the child can choose on their own whether to contact the father or not.

I am a very strong advocate regarding God's grace, for there is nothing in all creation that can separate us from the love of God that is in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. That said however, I would strongly caution those who champion themselves as proponents of abortion. God is pro-life and God will not be mocked.

Agreed. To their credit, in a way, Ohio tried to put a stop to this travesty last year but the bill stalled. 31 states currently allow rapists to not only sue for visitation but also for custody of the product of their assault on the woman. And no doubt along with the custody issue would be the child support that would go along with it if/when the rapist pushed for that too.

According to stats the percentage of abortion from rapes are very low.

I dont think some people on here are advocating abortion as they are against legislative pro-life measures... on which I agree, only because it will cause more evil than good. The women who want to abort will sadly still be aborting - that's what the problem is - but this time illegally, this business will be done through black market, and many women will be dying in unsafe environment...

Otherwise I am with you... "Love thy neighbor as you love thyself" - well, it could have also been me in that womb... it could have been any of us, what more arguments do we need? Do women even know how atrocious death abortion is? The doctor drains the fluid the baby is swimming in and as the water is being drained, the poor baby is basically screaming, just unheard, struggling for dear life in panic. Then he uses a hook to punch a hole in the baby's head, on the nape. Then he sucks the baby's brain out, and because the head is too big, he chops the skull into pieces and takes it out piece by piece, and finally the body... This is holocaust level atrocity that should take place in your own body. If fornication is sinning against your own body according to the Word, what is this? Does anyone believe they can have peace after something like this?

It is extremely damaging to the mother. A woman who aborted a lot in her youth told me it's horrible emotionally and mentally. She told me that you feel empty, like you died. This is the best proof that it's not the way God intended it. I believe carrying the baby to term is not as damaging as the abortion for the general well being of the woman. Women are uneducated about the abortion, there is a lot of gruesome detail to it which they do not really know until they get there and what's done is done...

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Why is it always a womans choice AFTER she has unprotected sex? The choice is BEFORE. You can't afford to have a child,which is the number one reason for abortion according to stats,then dont have sex.Thats is where the choice begins.Please dont turn around and say we need to accept murder because women have sex irresponsibly.Wait till marriage or at the least wait until til you can afford/want children.

Agree with you on this one...

Not according to the Bible.The body is the temple of the Holy Ghost.Premarital sex and then abortion certainly doesn't jive with Gods plans for a woman.Women who do so will answer for the taking of innocent life.

Yea that sucks huh? As strongly as I personally feel about it there's no way not to agree that we live in a very fallen world period. I will never agree with or compromise my view on it for any reason, but I also can't sit here like I have a better solution either. My solution is everyone in the whole world coming to Jesus, and I'm sure that will happen tomorrow.
That is why I think I will also be avoiding this topic in the future. There are just to many horrible real and hypothetical spins we can put on it to make a case for or against abortion, for this kind of conversation to go anywhere meaningful. I know what the Spirit tells me and I’ve made it known. No reason to engage in debate, being as how it is completely pointless in the end. If I can ever help bring some REAL LIFE person to change their mind about aborting a baby, that would be worth it, but to argue online for my own ego doesn’t seem like the best use of any of our time. So I still very much feel the way I stated before, but I do realize what this world is and know there is no perfect answer until the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] coming.

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YES, I agree!

How does any woman know that the baby she wants to abort, isn't being FORMED in her womb by GOD to become the greatest, most effective Missionary for Jesus Christ that has ever lived.

If that were the case, wouldn't SATAN be tempting her BIG TIME to Abort that Child?