Exorcism

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
B

Brandon2965

Guest
#21
"Possession" as in a demon of some sort literally inhabiting the body. But now that I think about it I belive that when we accept Christ as our savior we have the Holy Spirit within us and the power over sin and I dont think we can have an evil living in us once God claims us as one of His children. On the other hand I do belive in demonic influence when we fall into sin through temptation, which would explain why alot of christians do the things they do...
 
D

danschance

Guest
#22
"Possession" as in a demon of some sort literally inhabiting the body. But now that I think about it I belive that when we accept Christ as our savior we have the Holy Spirit within us and the power over sin and I dont think we can have an evil living in us once God claims us as one of His children. On the other hand I do belive in demonic influence when we fall into sin through temptation, which would explain why alot of christians do the things they do...
It is nice to have opinions, but facts trump them.

If it is impoosible for a christian to have evil inside them after being born again, how is it that we are able to sin after being born again?

If evil can not live in our bodies after being born again, then how is it that we get sick, age and become tempted?

If we can not be demon possessed after being born again, then why doesn't the bible say to cast out demons, convert the person who has the demons and they will flee?

If we can not be demon possessed after being born again, then why do all christian deliverance books say that christians can be demon possessed?
 
Jan 17, 2013
612
19
18
#23
American exorcist-in-training shares his experience

Rome, Italy, Jul 25, 2012 / 04:03am - “I never thought I’d end up doing this, no,” admits the middle-aged priest whose unexpected path to becoming an exorcist began while saying one of his first Masses after he was ordained 15 years ago.

“At the moment of consecration of the precious blood I asked the Lord to shower his blood upon the youth and to help any young men who may have a vocation to the priesthood.”

The instant reaction of one 13-year old boy shocked the young priest, “he fell backwards and started growling. And I thought, ‘I wasn’t expecting this!’”
Several years later, and he is one of a new generation of exorcists-in-training following a decision by the U.S. bishops in November 2010 to vastly increase the number of exorcists, which might number as low as 50 in America.
The priest, who is from the U.S. Midwest, spoke to CNA on the basis of anonymity so that he will not be deluged with inquiries. As he explained, “we have set structures to make sure those who most need help get it.”
He now finds himself in Rome, sent by his bishop to shadow the work of the six official exorcists of the Rome diocese. In practical terms that means he is “involved in about three exorcisms a day.”
And the learning curve has been steep. “No two cases are alike. That’s been a real education for me. The rite of exorcism is not a magic formula,” he said.
“It is not the devil or the exorcist who is at the center of this but a person is suffering a lot and who is in need of certain liberation through Christ.”
As for correct terminology, is it a demon or a devil? “Demon comes from Greek, devil comes from Latin, either is okay,” he explained. What you are dealing with “are fallen angels who were created good.”
The early Church Fathers, including St. Jerome and St. Augustine, speculated that these angels rebelled “because of the revelation to them of God’s plan of incarnation” and their “repulsion at the notion that God, who is pure spirit and infinite, should become a man.”
For this reason, the priest observed, they have a “fascination with physicality” and “making people suffer.”
“So once the rite begins, normally he starts to manifest himself in the suffering person different ways - violence, changing of the face, changing of the voice is different,” he said, recalling recent exorcisms.
“He just wants to intimidate, but you basically have to ignore him and say ‘Hey, I am the one giving orders around here, buddy,’” he laughed.
The demon’s angelic knowledge, he said, also means they are aware that God only permits their diabolical activities to bring about the salvation of people through “expiating suffering.”
“These suffering people are becoming saints (by) the offering of their sacrifices” which God then receives and “blesses large parts of the Church around the world.”
“When you remind the Devil of that it makes him furious,” because he knows he is losing and hence “he wants to get what he can, while he can. If he can’t win these peoples’ souls, he wants to at least make their lives miserable.”
So an exorcist dialogues with the devil?
“Yes, I ask them a series of questions: ‘What’s your name?’ since when you use his name in a command it weakens him.” Once a demon gives his name, the exorcist then tells him to “get out” and also might ask “how he got in and when he’s going to leave.”
“The last one, it’s like they’ve all been coached with the same line, ‘I’m never leaving,’ but they will someday!”
The key is to limit dialogue, said the trainee exorcist. “You don’t want to ask them questions just out of curiosity, that’s not healthy.”
It is also possible to “throw in things just to humiliate the demon,” such as invoking the presence of saints, guardian angels and – most feared of all – Our Lady. It is then that “you can really see that there is a change in the behavior of the demon.”
The end-game often comes when the devil start revealing himself in angry and violent outbursts, when “it is common that there is foaming at the mouth.”
In the case of a curse being broken, the person will “start vomiting objects that were used in the curse or, you know, the vomit or saliva changes from clear to colored.”
It is then the exorcist knows “I’m hitting home, that this is really being effective and so those are good signs. It’s not pleasant to see, but you know that ‘I’m being effective here.’”
The American exorcist-in-training explained that the causes of demonic influence vary from case to case and the impact of participating in evil practices also changes with each case.
But one factor that seems to be a common foundation for people coming under the sway of the Devil is “deep wounds in their lives and, above all, in their family,” particularly where “parents have made really bad choices” and in doing so “have invited evil influence into their home.”
He lists such things as “marital infidelity, abortion, doing things that break the family apart.”
“What is the family?” he asked rhetorically, “A family is an icon; it’s an image of the blessed Trinity, and so the devil hates the family.”

American exorcist-in-training shares his experience
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#24
The most feared name is not Our Lady (Mary) but the name of Jesus Christ. Othewise, a pretty good article.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#25
It is nice to have opinions, but facts trump them.?
If it is impoosible for a christian to have evil inside them after being born again, how is it that we are able to sin after being born again?
A demon cannot dwell in the same place as the Holy Spirit.
1 John 4:4 it says, “You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.”

If evil can not live in our bodies after being born again, then how is it that we get sick, age and become tempted?
Nowhere in the bible does it say were are immune to physical illness and suffering. Sickness came into the world as a result of mans fall, and will persist until the return of Christ to complete His work of redemption (Romans 8:19-23). The source of all restoration is the power of God, through the redemptive work of Christ (Isaiah 53:5). Due to the fact that full redemption of our body will not be completed until the last day, neither will our body be fully cured until then.
If we can not be demon possessed after being born again, then why doesn't the bible say to cast out demons, convert the person who has the demons and they will flee?
The people that were posessed in the bible were not Christian. They had not converted.
If we can not be demon possessed after being born again, then why do all christian deliverance books say that christians can be demon possessed?
Why are you relying on other books for the truth instead of studying the bible to find your answer?
 
D

Donkeyfish07

Guest
#26
A demon cannot dwell in the same place as the Holy Spirit.
1 John 4:4 it says, “You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.”


Nowhere in the bible does it say were are immune to physical illness and suffering. Sickness came into the world as a result of mans fall, and will persist until the return of Christ to complete His work of redemption (Romans 8:19-23). The source of all restoration is the power of God, through the redemptive work of Christ (Isaiah 53:5). Due to the fact that full redemption of our body will not be completed until the last day, neither will our body be fully cured until then.

The people that were posessed in the bible were not Christian. They had not converted.

Why are you relying on other books for the truth instead of studying the bible to find your answer?
I have seen a Christian woman possessed by a demon before. Christians are not immune to demonic assault. It's true that if you are full of the Holy Spirit that they have no power over you, but honestly.....most of us are not spirit filled and walking uprightly 24/7, 365 days a year.

It's comforting to think that we are immune to demonic assault, but that's just not true and it's dangerous to believe so. If you've put on the full armor of God, you will prevail every time but assaults will happen. John 4:4 is a perfect example. How do you expect to overcome wicked spirits if you never encounter them?
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#27
I have seen a Christian woman possessed by a demon before. Christians are not immune to demonic assault. It's true that if you are full of the Holy Spirit that they have no power over you, but honestly.....most of us are not spirit filled and walking uprightly 24/7, 365 days a year.

It's comforting to think that we are immune to demonic assault, but that's just not true and it's dangerous to believe so. If you've put on the full armor of God, you will prevail every time but assaults will happen. John 4:4 is a perfect example. How do you expect to overcome wicked spirits if you never encounter them?
Ephesians 1:13 says, "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise."
The Holy Spirit comes upon the righteous who have received forgiveness for their sins by believing in Jesus Christ and thereby seals them as children of God.

There is absolutely no biblical evidence to suggest the Holy Spirit leaves a person after they become a Christian. We are still tempted. We are told to resist temptation, but this does not mean the HS leaves us

Demonic oppression is when a demon is temporarily victorious over a Christian, successfully tempting a Christian to sin and hindering his ability to serve God with a strong testimony.

Temptation is the desire to do something that is sinful.

Possession is total control over someone.
 
D

Donkeyfish07

Guest
#28
Ephesians 1:13 says, "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise."
The Holy Spirit comes upon the righteous who have received forgiveness for their sins by believing in Jesus Christ and thereby seals them as children of God.

There is absolutely no biblical evidence to suggest the Holy Spirit leaves a person after they become a Christian. We are still tempted. We are told to resist temptation, but this does not mean the HS leaves us

Demonic oppression is when a demon is temporarily victorious over a Christian, successfully tempting a Christian to sin and hindering his ability to serve God with a strong testimony.

Temptation is the desire to do something that is sinful.

Possession is total control over someone.
Thank God you've never experienced it or seen it, you don't understand how possession happens. Demons are not capable of just taking over any Jon Doe on the street anytime they want, if they could....everyone would be possessed (or at least every non-Christian that isn't equipped to deal with it). Your right that temptation is the desire to do something sinful. Christians are susceptible to temptation. It's correctly defined as oppression at that point, but when a person succumbs to temptation....demons can get a stronghold. It can lead to more sin, and the more sin the person indulges in.....the more open they are to demonic influence. It can snowball and lead to possession.

I've seen it happen and I'm not the only one that has seen it happen. Sin is very dangerous. You have to resist the Devil or he will not flee from you. You must consciously fight. We all sin but the greatest knowledge a Christian has when we sin is to know well enough to Repent and admit what we did and ask for forgiveness.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#29
Thank God you've never experienced it or seen it, you don't understand how possession happens. Demons are not capable of just taking over any Jon Doe on the street anytime they want, if they could....everyone would be possessed (or at least every non-Christian that isn't equipped to deal with it). Your right that temptation is the desire to do something sinful. Christians are susceptible to temptation. It's correctly defined as oppression at that point, but when a person succumbs to temptation....demons can get a stronghold. It can lead to more sin, and the more sin the person indulges in.....the more open they are to demonic influence. It can snowball and lead to possession.

I've seen it happen and I'm not the only one that has seen it happen. Sin is very dangerous. You have to resist the Devil or he will not flee from you. You must consciously fight. We all sin but the greatest knowledge a Christian has when we sin is to know well enough to Repent and admit what we did and ask for forgiveness.
That's another thing. Possession no longer happens.

After speaking of the day of the fountain for sin being opened in Jerusalem, God said through the prophet: "And I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirits to pass out of the land" (Zechariah 13:2). The inspired prophets continued and worked miracles until the Word of God had been confirmed, and then there was no further need for a direct operation of the Holy Spirit upon the apostles and prophets in order to furnish them with what to say to the people and to confirm such as being that which comes from God. When the power to expunge the demons from people existed through the power of the Holy Spirit through Jesus and the apostles, in order to confirm the Word of God that they taught, came to an end, the presence of demon possession also came to an end.

If one invites the devil rather than the Father and the Son into their lives, the devil takes up abode in him. But the presence of the devil can be rejected by turning to the Word of God and obeying it. This is far different from the demon possession that was offset by miraculous power by Jesus and the apostles of the first century, in order to confirm the Word they were teaching.
 
D

danschance

Guest
#30
A demon cannot dwell in the same place as the Holy Spirit.
1 John 4:4 it says, “You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.”


Nowhere in the bible does it say were are immune to physical illness and suffering. Sickness came into the world as a result of mans fall, and will persist until the return of Christ to complete His work of redemption (Romans 8:19-23). The source of all restoration is the power of God, through the redemptive work of Christ (Isaiah 53:5). Due to the fact that full redemption of our body will not be completed until the last day, neither will our body be fully cured until then.

The people that were possessed in the bible were not Christian. They had not converted.

Why are you relying on other books for the truth instead of studying the bible to find your answer?

1)
A demon cannot dwell in the same place as the Holy Spirit.
This is a belief many Christians hold today. I am not one of them. There is no scripture in the bible that says this or even implies it. Instead many Christians lift scriptures out of context to "prove" their point, as you have. You have quoted a scripture that in context is dealing with false prophets and never mentions demon possession.

2)
Nowhere in the bible does it say were are immune to physical illness and suffering
Yes and that is the point I was trying to make which seems to of eluded you. If God can not dwell with evil in our body then why does God dwell with sickness, pain and sin. This myopic view of man as being nothing more than a container that holds spirits (i.e. Holy Spirit or demons) is oversimplified of what man is.

We are composed of three parts; a body, a mind (soul) and a spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23). The spirit of a man belongs to God, and their spirit is united with the Holy Spirit, but their bodies and minds (souls) can still be afflicted by evil spirits. Just like you can turn a light on in one room, and the next room in the house can be dark, the same is true in the spirit realm.
The soul versus the spirit: The spirit of a man is where the Holy Ghost dwells, but the soul or mind of a man is where dirt can still remain long after he or she accepts Christ. We are told to be transformed by the renewing of our minds (souls) through the Word of God. Our spirits are instantly made new the moment we are saved, but our souls can take time to renew and 'clean up'.
Where demons do their work:[FONT=verdana, helvetica, arial] I do not believe a demon can touch the spirit of a man after he's accepted Jesus, but where demons do their work is in the soul or mind. How do you see demons affecting people in the Bible? Through their mind (the lunatic boy, the man with the legion, etc.), and their physical body (the woman with the spirit of infirmity, the man who couldn't speak because of a demon, etc.). Demons can try to get our spirits overwhelmed, worn out, or tempt us to sin, but their way of operating in our lives is through our minds (souls) and by troubling our physical bodies.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana, helvetica, arial]3)
[/FONT]Why are you relying on other books for the truth instead of studying the bible to find your answer?[FONT=verdana, helvetica, arial]
Really? We can only read the bible? I think Martin Luther, the man who coined the phrase "Sola Scriptura" (Scripture alone) would openly mock anyone who said we can't read anything but the bible. Would you go to a doctor who only reads the bible? Would you hire a lawyer who only has read the bible? So why is it that you think we should not read books about deliverance written by men and women who have experience in deliverance?[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana, helvetica, arial]The bible is the very word of God and it is true. When I first went into a deliverance ministry for help, they suggested I buy a book called "Bondage Breaker" by Dr. Niel T. Anderson. Since then I have purchased numerous other books on the topic of deliverance. The only reason that I mention deliverance books is because they all start out with a chapter on how Christians can have demons indwelling them. Think about it: IF a Christian CAN"T be indwelt by a demon, THEN all we need to do to cast out demons is to convert the non Christian and the demons must leave..right? WRONG!
[/FONT]
We see in the bible the dealings with demons is a confrontation between demons and the authority of God. We never once see Jesus saying, "Oh, get the Holy Spirit in that man fast and the demons will flee like crazy!". Yet this is the same sort of reasoning I see when Christians try to "prove" a Christian can not be indwelt by a demon.

To further prove how silly it is that some argue a Christian can not be indwelt by a demon is that the indwelt person must be a christian before deliverance can start!
Matthew 12:43-45, "When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation."


Jesus said that when a demon leaves a person, it likes to come back with 7 more even worse demons, and it is permitted if that person is part of the wicked generation (sinners/unbelievers). Casting a demon out of an unbeliever is not a wise idea. It is wise to first lead the person to Jesus, so that there is a protection upon them to keep the demon(s) from coming back.
Another thing to consider, is that trying to cast a demon out when he has 'legal rights' in that person's life can be very dangerous. Demons can manifest and physically get very violent and cause bodily harm to both the victim and the nearby people. It is a good idea to cut off the demon's legal grounds in the person before attempting to cast a demon out.
 
Jan 17, 2013
612
19
18
#31
The most feared name is not Our Lady (Mary) but the name of Jesus Christ. Othewise, a pretty good article.
I see it in the sense that Satan and demons know that if they talk bad about Jesus' mother then He'll respond mercilessly. They just won't go there. No mercy when you talk bad about His beloved mother. When she is mentioned in their presence then it shuts them right up.

Like anyone really. You can insult someone to their face and usually get away with it, but say something bad about their mother and you're gonna get a beat down.
 
D

Donkeyfish07

Guest
#32
That's another thing. Possession no longer happens.

After speaking of the day of the fountain for sin being opened in Jerusalem, God said through the prophet: "And I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirits to pass out of the land" (Zechariah 13:2). The inspired prophets continued and worked miracles until the Word of God had been confirmed, and then there was no further need for a direct operation of the Holy Spirit upon the apostles and prophets in order to furnish them with what to say to the people and to confirm such as being that which comes from God. When the power to expunge the demons from people existed through the power of the Holy Spirit through Jesus and the apostles, in order to confirm the Word of God that they taught, came to an end, the presence of demon possession also came to an end.

If one invites the devil rather than the Father and the Son into their lives, the devil takes up abode in him. But the presence of the devil can be rejected by turning to the Word of God and obeying it. This is far different from the demon possession that was offset by miraculous power by Jesus and the apostles of the first century, in order to confirm the Word they were teaching.
Possession certainly does still happen, no different than the old times. I've described how they gain strongholds that can lead to possession. I've seen it, others have seen it, and there are thousands of deliverance ministers dealing with this issue on a daily basis. Deliverance ministers are not dealing with a non-issue. The only difference from the pre-christian era is that we have been granted authority over them through the holy spirit. Demons did not just disappear.

1 Timothy 4:1

"Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to deceitful spirits, and doctrines of demons;"

You are right about one thing though. The presence of the devil can be rejected by turning to the word of god and obeying it.....That's an obvious truth. What you fail to realize is that demonic possession is still demonic possession. Just because we have been granted the ability to cast them out does not mean that possession does not occur at all. There is no scripture to support that position at all, period. That's why we have spirit filled Deliverance ministers.
 

HEIsRiSen

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2013
487
11
0
#33
I have heard that exorcism is an occult practice of transferring spirits from one body to another, although this hasn't yet been confirmed to me.
 
D

danschance

Guest
#34
Possession certainly does still happen, no different than the old times. I've described how they gain strongholds that can lead to possession. I've seen it, others have seen it, and there are thousands of deliverance ministers dealing with this issue on a daily basis. Deliverance ministers are not dealing with a non-issue. The only difference from the pre-christian era is that we have been granted authority over them through the holy spirit. Demons did not just disappear.

1 Timothy 4:1

"Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to deceitful spirits, and doctrines of demons;"

You are right about one thing though. The presence of the devil can be rejected by turning to the word of god and obeying it.....That's an obvious truth. What you fail to realize is that demonic possession is still demonic possession. Just because we have been granted the ability to cast them out does not mean that possession does not occur at all. There is no scripture to support that position at all, period. That's why we have spirit filled Deliverance ministers.

***Amen! ***
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#35
This is a belief many Christians hold today. I am not one of them. There is no scripture in the bible that says this or even implies it. Instead many Christians lift scriptures out of context to "prove" their point, as you have. You have quoted a scripture that in context is dealing with false prophets and never mentions demon possession.
There is no example in the bible of a believer in Jesus Christ being demon-possessed. All cases of demonic possession were with those who were unbelievers. If you see where this is false then please provide scripture.

in which you once lived, following the course of this world, following the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work among those who are disobedient (Ephesians 2:2)

The body of the believer is now a temple of the Holy Spirit...
So if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: everything old has passed away; see, everything has become new! (2 Corinthians 5:17)Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have from God? and you are not your own (1 Corinthians 6:19
)
The Bible says that such evil powers cannot separate the believer from the love of God.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 8:38,39)

Yes and that is the point I was trying to make which seems to of eluded you. If God can not dwell with evil in our body then why does God dwell with sickness, pain and sin. This myopic view of man as being nothing more than a container that holds spirits (i.e. Holy Spirit or demons) is oversimplified of what man is
.
Demons know who Jesus is. They know why He had come into the world (Luke 4:41). They believe in God (James 2:19). They fear the Judgment and eternal punishment (Matthew 8:29). This clearly shows that demons are not diseases.
They are spirit beings who think, speak, and act.

Some sickness is not related to sin. That is why some people are born with disabilities and such. If you haven't even been born then you sinning could have have been the cause of that.

John 9:1-3: As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life

Some sicknesses are allowed on Christians so that we can be close to God and experience Him through our weakness.
2 Corinthians 7-12: To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness

Pauls THORN was to keep him humble. It was not due to him sinning. Obviously the Holy Spirit can dwell in people with ailments.

Romans 8:23-27: Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.

Some sicknesses are allowed to test and develop our faith.... Consider Job.

Really? We can only read the bible? I think Martin Luther, the man who coined the phrase "Sola Scriptura" (Scripture alone) would openly mock anyone who said we can't read anything but the bible. Would you go to a doctor who only reads the bible? Would you hire a lawyer who only has read the bible? So why is it that you think we should not read books about deliverance written by men and women who have experience in deliverance?
Please do not take my words out of context. Expecially since you accuse others of doing the same. I am not talking about doctors and lawyers. I am talking about the TRUTH of God. There is NO other religious book that is inspired by God. I do not look toward a book that is not inspired to find TRUTH. I look toward that bible. In the even a book was written that was is not in conflict of the bible then by all means. Read, but it should always be subordiate to the bible.
Also, to answer your question about doctors and lawyers... It would be good if they both read the bible before anything else. Maybe then lawyers would have a better reputation and doctors would not perform abortions and other medical procedures that could be seen as ungodly.
 

HEIsRiSen

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2013
487
11
0
#36
[SUP]Mark 9
17 [/SUP]And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.

[SUP]27 [/SUP]But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out?
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#37
Possession certainly does still happen, no different than the old times. I've described how they gain strongholds that can lead to possession. I've seen it, others have seen it, and there are thousands of deliverance ministers dealing with this issue on a daily basis. Deliverance ministers are not dealing with a non-issue. The only difference from the pre-christian era is that we have been granted authority over them through the holy spirit. Demons did not just disappear.

1 Timothy 4:1

"Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to deceitful spirits, and doctrines of demons;"

You are right about one thing though. The presence of the devil can be rejected by turning to the word of god and obeying it.....That's an obvious truth. What you fail to realize is that demonic possession is still demonic possession. Just because we have been granted the ability to cast them out does not mean that possession does not occur at all. There is no scripture to support that position at all, period. That's why we have spirit filled Deliverance ministers.
If a person is possessed they have no control. They cannot be held accountable for what they do. If a Christian departs it is by choice. Demons cannot force you to fall away. Even if a person falls they can still be forgiven and come back to Christ. They don't have to be "re-saved" but they do need to repent.
Also, repentance is forgiveness of sins. Your own sins. That YOU commited. Not an evil spirit.

Not once did Jesus condemn a person that was possessed.
 

HEIsRiSen

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2013
487
11
0
#38
Possession certainly does still happen, no different than the old times. I've described how they gain strongholds that can lead to possession. I've seen it, others have seen it, and there are thousands of deliverance ministers dealing with this issue on a daily basis. Deliverance ministers are not dealing with a non-issue. The only difference from the pre-christian era is that we have been granted authority over them through the holy spirit. Demons did not just disappear.

1 Timothy 4:1

"Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to deceitful spirits, and doctrines of demons;"

You are right about one thing though. The presence of the devil can be rejected by turning to the word of god and obeying it.....That's an obvious truth. What you fail to realize is that demonic possession is still demonic possession. Just because we have been granted the ability to cast them out does not mean that possession does not occur at all. There is no scripture to support that position at all, period. That's why we have spirit filled Deliverance ministers.
If a person is possessed they have no control. They cannot be held accountable for what they do. If a Christian departs it is by choice. Demons cannot force you to fall away. Even if a person falls they can still be forgiven and come back to Christ. They don't have to be "re-saved" but they do need to repent.
Also, repentance is forgiveness of sins. Your own sins. That YOU commited. Not an evil spirit.

Not once did Jesus condemn a person that was possessed.
I don't believe that it what this man was saying, but I will let him explain himself.
 
O

oOfallen_angelOo

Guest
#39
Evil spirits aren't always hollywood like the demons shown on exorcism movies. Evil spirits were cast down to the earth for terrible sins against God, so they wander here - looking for a body to invade. And it's rarely the head spinning, vomiting puke everywhere possession - evil spirits can manipulate the mind and tempt the soul to sin because this is their own nature. Sometimes you just know when one may be messing with you - so pray to God it leaves or it will pull you into wickedness with itself.
 
D

Donkeyfish07

Guest
#40
If a person is possessed they have no control. They cannot be held accountable for what they do. If a Christian departs it is by choice. Demons cannot force you to fall away. Even if a person falls they can still be forgiven and come back to Christ. They don't have to be "re-saved" but they do need to repent.
Also, repentance is forgiveness of sins. Your own sins. That YOU commited. Not an evil spirit.

Not once did Jesus condemn a person that was possessed.
I never implied Jesus ever condemned anyone that was possessed, on the contrary......he cast them out himself and gave others the ability to do so as well. I'm not really interested in arguing about the issue, I just felt the need to let you know you are mistaken. It's dangerous to teach people that possession no longer happens. It's more common among non-Christians but Christians aren't immune to demonic attack either. We have been given all the tools we need to win.

Ephesians

"Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints"

If you don't put on the Armor of God, your vulnerable. We certainly do not wrestle against flesh and blood.....What do you suppose it is we are wrestling against? Spiritual warfare is very important and unfortunately it is almost completely neglected in an average Church.