Exorcism

Have you even read the scriptures I have posted?

Zechariah, an Old Testament prophet, spoke of the time when Christ would come. He said: “In that day a fountain shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for uncleanness”(Zechariah 13:1). This fountain was opened when Jesus shed His blood on the cross for the sins of the world. Zechariah then said: “It shall be in that day, says the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols from the land, and they shall be no longer remembered. I will also cause the prophets and the unclean spirits to depart from the land" (13:2). Following the time when the Lord would die for our sins, prophets (men who spoke by the Holy Spirit) and unclean spirits (demons) would no longer be in the land (earth).

This indicates that a time will come when casting out demons will no longer happen.

The the apostles could give to others the ability to work miracles. The purpose of these miracles was to confirm (prove) God’s Word (Mark 16:20: Hebrews 2:2-4). Paul said these gifts of the Holy Spirit would fail, cease, and vanish away (1 Corinthians 13:8-10). These miraculous gifts would cease when that which is perfect had come (v. 10). This refers to the New Testament, which is called the perfect law of liberty (James 1:25 But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it--he will be blessed in what he does. ). One of these gifts was the power to cast out demons. Therefore, evil spirits possessing men, along with the power to cast them out, ceased when the New Testament was completed and confirmed. If demon possession continued today, Satan would have more power than God, for he could send his demons into people, but God’s people could not cast them out.

1. If Zech. refers to the world, then this time has not come. Much of Africa, Asia, Pacific Islands still worship idols. Most of the western world idolizes democracy and/or technology. I think it refers to Israel as the land. Because of the alternate interpretation, and the inconsistency, you cannot apply this to prove prophets will no longer exist.

2. If you think things are perfect, go have another look. Eph. 4:13 must be considered too. When it is, you see that "perfect" refers to the "perfect man", not the "perfect law". If prophets are to cease, so are pastors, teachers and evangelists. These three are still very much around.

The simple truth of experience is that demonic possession, obsession, and the gifts of exorcism, miracles, prophecy are part of everyday life, for some of us.

There is such an occult practice, but that is not what is being discussed here. Mature exorcists send the demons to the feet of Jesus, and let Him deal with them.

You are right when you say that there will be a time when there will no longer be unclean spirits but you are aware that everything written in the book of Zecharia has not come to pass aren't you? Sister, when you say "Following the time when the Lord would die for our sins, prophets (men who spoke by the Holy Spirit) and unclean spirits (demons) would no longer be in the land (earth)."...... Even in the bible people were still being possessed after Jesus ascended to heaven. Just one example, and I could give many.

Acts in Chapter 19

"
13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the LORD Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.

14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.

15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded."

Furthermore, even the verse you have in bold shows that not all of the prophecy has been fulfilled following Jesus' resurrection.

"“It shall be in that day, says the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols from the land, and they shall be no longer remembered. I will also cause the prophets and the unclean spirits to depart from the land"

All the idols names have not been cut off either. People still remember the old Idols and Idol worship is widespread in the world today. I can give you a biblical case of that after Jesus's resurrection as well.

Acts 19 again

"
[SUP]24[/SUP] For a certain man named Demetrius, a silversmith, which made silver shrines for Diana, brought no small gain unto the craftsmen;
[SUP]25[/SUP] Whom he called together with the workmen of like occupation, and said, Sirs, ye know that by this craft we have our wealth.
[SUP]26[/SUP] Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands:
[SUP]27[/SUP] So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth.
[SUP]28[/SUP] And when they heard these sayings, they were full of wrath, and cried out, saying, Great is Diana of the Ephesians.
[SUP]29[/SUP] And the whole city was filled with confusion: and having caught Gaius and Aristarchus, men of Macedonia, Paul's companions in travel, they rushed with one accord into the theatre.
[SUP]30[/SUP] And when Paul would have entered in unto the people, the disciples suffered him not.
[SUP]31[/SUP] And certain of the chief of Asia, which were his friends, sent unto him, desiring him that he would not adventure himself into the theatre.
[SUP]32[/SUP] Some therefore cried one thing, and some another: for the assembly was confused; and the more part knew not wherefore they were come together.
[SUP]33[/SUP] And they drew Alexander out of the multitude, the Jews putting him forward. And Alexander beckoned with the hand, and would have made his defence unto the people.
[SUP]34[/SUP] But when they knew that he was a Jew, all with one voice about the space of two hours cried out, Great is Diana of the Ephesians.
[SUP]35[/SUP] And when the townclerk had appeased the people, he said, Ye men of Ephesus, what man is there that knoweth not how that the city of the Ephesians is a worshipper of the great goddess Diana, and of the image which fell down from Jupiter?
[SUP]36[/SUP] Seeing then that these things cannot be spoken against, ye ought to be quiet, and to do nothing rashly.
[SUP]37[/SUP] For ye have brought hither these men, which are neither robbers of churches, nor yet blasphemers of your goddess.
[SUP]38[/SUP] Wherefore if Demetrius, and the craftsmen which are with him, have a matter against any man, the law is open, and there are deputies: let them implead one another.
[SUP]39[/SUP] But if ye enquire any thing concerning other matters, it shall be determined in a lawful assembly.
[SUP]40[/SUP] For we are in danger to be called in question for this day's uproar, there being no cause whereby we may give an account of this concourse.
[SUP]41[/SUP] And when he had thus spoken, he dismissed the assembly.

Acts 20



[SUP]1[/SUP] And after the uproar was ceased, Paul called unto him the disciples, and embraced them, and departed for to go into Macedonia."

That's not the only part of Zecharia that hasn't been fulfilled. Zecharia 14:16 hasn't been fulfilled yet either. We still have a long way to go before the earth no longer has any unclean spirits or idolatry Sister.

Amen! I feel like there are different levels of Christians. Most have their eyes shut tight, others a little wide and a few of us with our eyes wide open.

The truth of the matter is Christians can be possessed if they have an unrepentant sin issue in their life. Which means they have allowed satan a beachhead in their life from which demons operate.

Different levels of Christianity huh? How so?
The bible does speak on humility and we are to "clothe ourselves with humility" Pride is also an abomination.
Christians are not better than the other. God loves us all equally, and for anyone to believe they are better, have more knowledge, more righteous or even more favored needs to reevaluate their ideas on what Christianity is all about.
I also learned a long time ago when someone calls themself a Christian and presents this attitude toward their brothers and sisters that it is best to walk away.
We are told not to quarrel over opinions, and pride and arrogance is not how one should defend the scripture.

Proverbs 26:12 Do you see a man who is wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him

Philippians 2:3
Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.

1 Timothy 6:4
He is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions,

Romans 12:16
Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight.

I do not discuss the scriptures to prove I am right. I do not discuss scripture to tell others they are wrong. I cannot and will not tell others to believe the same way I do, but I will explain when I believe the way I do. Then it is up to the personto lok in to that and at least see why people believe a certain way.

I know we all fall short and most of us at some point think we know more than the other, and at times maybe we do. Yet when a Christians begins to show a haughty attitude toward others who do not agree is when I will no longer interact with them. It will lead to ungodly arguments.

There is a distinct difference between being possessed by a demon and being oppressed or influenced by a demon.
Demon possession involves a demon having direct/complete control over the thoughts and/or actions of a person (Matthew 17:14-18; Luke 4:33-35; 8:27-33).


　
Christians are indwelt by the Holy Spirit
(Romans 8:9-11; 1 Corinthians 3:16; 6:19).
Surely the Holy Spirit would not allow a demon to possess the same person He is indwelling. It is unthinkable that God would allow one of His children, whom He purchased with the blood of Christ (1 Peter 1:18-19) and made into a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17), to be possessed and controlled by a demon.

Jesus cast out 7 demons from Mary Magdalene and then 7 times more entered into her. She was also the first to see Jesus after he was resurrected ??

Actually most of your post is incorrect. Demon possession does not mean demons have total control over a person. they have influence over a person in a specific area only. Possessed people can act very normal while others are more heavily influenced by demons because they have many more demons under the skin.

I was demon possessed. The deeper my involvement into the occult meant that demons had more influence over me. For instance, I had a deep hatred for Christians which was very irrational and hated them for no reason in particular. The demons inside me only took over my body one time for 30 secounds as the demon spoke directly to another human as though it was me. The rest of the time I had total control over my body.

Now you claim the Holy Spirit can not dwell in the same place as a demon does? This is un-scriptural. Job 1:6 shows satan and God talking in the "Heavenly Court". Jesus literally traveled with satan as satan took Him to a high place to see the world. (Luke 4:5) Jesus said to Peter, "Get behind me satan" (Mark 8:33). Another point is that the Holy Spirit covers the earth (Jeremiah 23:24), so if the Holy Spirit covers the earth, then how can darkness (demons and sin) freely roam this earth if the Holy Spirit is covering it?

Now here is the death of your arguement. I was possessed and knew it and become a christian to get help. Once I became a "New Creation" the demons were still in me and tormenting me. Not a single demon that I am aware of left my body when I said the sinners prayer or when I got baptized. I had the Holy Spirit inside me and I also had demons inside me at the same time and this is a fact.

The reason many Christians seem to believe (with out any solid scriptural support) that Christians can be indwelt by a demon and the Holy Spirit is because they think in very limited terms. They think the Holy Spirit indwells the same space demons must if they possess us. However man is a triune being, made of BODY, MIND and SPIRIT. (1 Thessalonians 5:23) The Holy Spirit is connected to us via our own spirit. However evil still reigns in our minds and in our bodies. We as Christians can and do fully engage in sinful activities and yet the Holy Spirit does not flee. So if evil thoughts can dwell in my mind(soul) why can't demon dwell there also?

I have said this once before and I will say it again: "Demon possession is a sin related condition". Here in lies the heart of the matter. If you as a Christian did not engage in sin, there is no way a demon would be to indwell you because your spiritual armor is in good condition. The more we sin, the vulnerable we become to the enemy, esp. if we do not repent. This is also critical in casting demons out. Demons use our unrepentant sins as a "right" to possess a person. So once a person confess his/her sin and asks God to be forgiven that "legal right" is removed from the demon and yet, the demon will not leave until it is commanded to leave in Jesus name. Ecclesiastes 10:8, "He that diggeth a pit shall fall into it; and whoso breaketh an hedge, a serpent shall bite him." There is a hedge of protection around God's people, but if there's a hole in that hedge, it can open the door to the enemy and we can get bitten.

To date, I have cast many of demons out of people and I only cast demons out of Christians, ONLY! The bible is clear on this point. If a demon is forced out it will wonder in dry places and not find rest. It will attempt to re-enter the person with seven more demons if "the house in not in proper order. (Matt 12:43-45)

Conclusion
So you are half right. A solid Christian who keeps his sins in check can't be possessed. However if he/she is actively engaged in sin, the hedge of God's protection can be breached. Thus allowing a demon to indwell them. In other words, as long as we are trusting under God's protective wings, we are safe. Yet put your big toe out of that protection and it can be nailed by satan.

Just out of curiosity, at what point will the gifts cease? We know the bible does state they will. ! cor 13 mentions it as well. Just so I can better understand this topic I would like to know when. Not meaning a specific date. Just that we are told they will cease. So obviously at some point there will be no more exorcism or supernatural gifts.

I have had the same type of experience, initiated by the same sin (occultism). That's true in my experience and well spoken. I have also seen one other person that was really possessed, worse than what I went through. I've seen other people that are obviously influenced but not full blown possessed.....like the irrational hatred of Christians you describe. I've also noticed that they normally do not reveal themselves when they are attempting to influence a person, it's subtle manipulation.

In Jesus name."Get behind the satan"

Yes, "subtle manipulation" is a great way to describe it. Here in the United States, the gods of science, reason and rational ism seem to hold the most sway with unbelievers. Their false belief that there is/are no spiritual realm(s) would be shattered if every person in the US who is possessed would suddenly be fully controlled by demons.

I agree with you that it is also a case of how many demons a person has will determine to what extent a person is "locked up" via their demons. A demon of lust will only bring more lust into a person. A demon of unforgivness will only cause more unforgivness in the host person, etc. So for a person to be totally controlled by demons would mean they are possessed by thousands of demons. Demons certainly can exert some outright control over a person, but many times the demons want them to think they themselves are in control, not the demons.

I recall going over to my sister's house for Easter. I was looking forward to spending some time with her. When I got there, the place was full of Christians I really hated and resented all of them, but there was one man in particular that I had a rabid hatred for. Having never met the man before, I was blatantly rude to him and made him feel very uncomfortable He was the pastor of the church my sister attended and after I got saved, he became my pastor.

It is sad to think about how ignorant the church really is about demons. The average pastor across America has never once encountered a demon or witnessed a miracle. How sad is that??

I am glad you found your freedom in Christ. Satan is a hard demanding taskmaster to serve. The yoke of Christ is very light, very easy to bear while satan's yoke is very heavy. There is much joy in Heaven when the prodigal son returns.

Sorry but I don't understand. Are you saying to get behind satan?

Actually I said different levels of Christians not Christianity, per se. Like some Christians are spiritually blind, some see more and a few see things better. I implied some have more of the truth than others.



This is very true. None of us are better than anyone else. I am certainly no better than the worst sinner on the planet. Yet there are back sliden Christians, carnal Christians, baby Christians and Christians who are on a solid diet of the meat of God.

I am sorry you feel I am being haughty. I apologize if I have offended you. As I m mentioned a few times before, I am one of these demon possessed persons. I was involved with the occult. As soon as I realized I needed to have demons kicked out of me, the next thought was who do I turn to? I didn't think any protestant church would be able to help me because many do not even acknowledge demons as a present day reality. So I went to a Catholic church for help. So as you can imagine this topic is very near and dear to me.

After I said the sinners prayer and was baptized, none of my demonic problems changed. I was being torment d by demons. I had non-stop nightmares, uncontrollable demonic visions, heard demons speak to me, saw demons, my home became haunted, my family also witnessed paranormal things, twice I was attacked by demons and woke up with scratches on me. All of which occurred to me after I became a Christian and after I was baptized. I had the Holy Spirit in me, no doubt and still had to deal with the demonic. I even briefly considered suicide as a way to get rid of the demons.

So as you can imagine, when you say a christian can't be demon possessed my response to that is less than happy acceptance. I consider it a full fledged doctrine of demons, spiritual pollution that has crept into the church today and has been widely accepted. It is also a "new" doctrine and should be met with skepticism on that basis alone. Meaning it has only been around for the past few decades.

Think about what you would do to help me as I came to your church and explained that I am a christian and demon possessed. What would you say to me? Would you say "No, you can't be possessed because you have the Holy Spirit " Can you imagine how that would make you feel knowing that you have a demon inside you and inside your home terrorizing you whole family?

Eph. 4:13 gives the express time for those five ministries. Paul calls it when we become the perfect man, in the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. He gives two particular things to verify: unity of faith and unity of the knowledge of the Son of God. Since this applies to prophets and apostles, it applies to them in I Cor. 13:10, which you quote, and which applies to prophecy tongues and knowledge. Since prophecy can only cease once, the two passages must represent the same event, and "the perfect" in that verse must refer to the "perfect man" of Eph. We now know the ceasing-time of tongues and knowledge, as well (that's 7 total things). I would like to include all the other gifts in this list, but I can't. I Cor. 12:9-10 lists the same gifts, and makes it sound like Paul always had a longer list in mind, and chose here and there as the Holy Spirit led him. The problem is I Cor. 12:9 lists the gift of faith, which 13:13 says will abide, and most people say forever. Scripture is clear on the seven gifts, but for the others, it depends which of the three positions you accept: 1. All, including faith will cease when the perfect man is attained. 2. Only these seven will cease at that point, and the others coninue, or 3. (as I feel), the term "faith" in I Cor. 12 means faith for miracles, but in I Cor. 13 means faith in the abiding presence of God, and thus all the gifts will be replaced by faith, hope, and love, when the perfect man is attained. I find support for my position is Eph. 4:13, since we must come to the unity of "faith", and that implies there will still be faith.

I have cast demons out of CHRISTIANS many a time. Nothing more to add to that

Thank you for your response. I may make another thread about this topic sometime. I dont want to derail this one.

Does not miraculous signs show us symbolism? Of course, yet not only is it symbolic but also real.

Symbolism:

Healing - Lord curing us from our iniquity and life of sin.
Cure of blind - opening our eyes to the truth without ignorance.
Cure of deaf - opening our ears to hearing the truth without ignorance.
Cure of dumb - having that inner spirit that will want to speak the Word of God, and will evangelize to others.
Cure of lame - spiritual sense of being able to live free, no longer chained and imprisioned, and showing how God rescued you from being stuck and crippled in the world of lies.
Cure of sickness - spiritual sense of being cured from your sin sick soul into a healthy alive Spirit refresh in Him.
Exorcism - Lord sanctifying us and casting out the sin and evil from us, drawing us closer to Him each day.
Resurrecting - Lord resurrected us from a life of sin, and we are regenerated into a rebirth of a new identity in Christ, filled with the Spirit.

Each one is real, but these are possibly the symbols that it not only represents, but help those who are ignorant see the truth.

True Christians cannot be possessed by demons. However we can be oppressed by them. We must understand the sin nature that all of us were born under we are sons of Adam. Who passed on the thin sin nature to us. When we got saved, we were redeemed from power of sin. The sin nature was broken. We were saved because the Holy Spirit revealed to us the work that Jesus did on the cross. However, we still remain in flesh bodies. We have not entered the kingdom age yet. Most people start to look at their works as a mean of salvation rather than the cross, it's what are flesh wants. It goes all the way back to Nimrod and the people said let us build a city of brick. Brick is man made. Everything that God told his people to build was with stone. Not man made. So when we focus on our works and not the cross the sin nature is revived and like all sin it becomes bondage. So a christian while still being saved can fall into bondage (demon oppressed). And the answer is to put our faith in the work of the cross. There is nothing we can do to earn salvation or deliverance accept to say thank you Jesus.