The good/bad things

Depleted,

I ask for your forgiveness in the way that I have conducted myself. I openly admit that I have some issues with God that hender me from growing closer. Sometimes, the anger that I feel can make be out to seem to be a worse person than I actually am.

I am a Christian, because I do believe in God, and I do believe that he sent His son Jesus to give us a chance at peace. I have views that...are different, yes, but there are good reasons as to why I feel the way I feel. I'm not sure one can state I am not Christian because I do not feel the exact same way that everyone else does. If God wanted us all to think and act and feel the exact same he would not have given us minds to think for ourselves or individuality.

But at the same time, I understand your point of view, and so...

I will take out my earplugs. I will "listen" to you if you are still willing to "speak".

But if you decide to do so, I very humbly as that (at least for now) do not "speak" to me as a person who has it all together, as far as Christiaity is concerned. As obviously...I do not.

My "ears" are open.

Ugly,

I have had people tell me that I am cold and unemotional. I am not a person who easily comes to tears, but after reading your last post my vision blurred because it seemed that finally someone did understand where I was coming from. You hit the nail on the head as far as what I was trying to get at.

Like you, like many others, I have really been through a lot and I know that if I had kids I would never want them to suffer as much, and if I had the power, I would do everything to prevent it. So yes; at times I am angry, at times I am rebellious because I feel as if the one who is supposed to love me the most is the one who turned a blind eye. And then chastises me for being angry, as if he is incapable of understanding why I am.

But everything you wrote is correct; there is a bigger picture then I see; I am leaning far too much upon my own understanding.

I'm not saying that things will be perfect from here on out...or that I will not type something in the future that may tick you off, but seeing a Christian actually finally admit to the things you did lets me know I am not so alone after all. And that is a really good step into the direction I need to go.

Can you explain what you mean, or where you got the idea,
that God 'sent His Son, to give us a chance at peace?'

What is He to do? We rented the place. The believers have His authority. Some want to serve satan. He can only stop it all but He's patient because He waits for the harvest of souls to come in. That's why there still is suffering.

How would you do it different if you were God? Maybe you can enlighten Him a bit.

Hi, coby.
This post, and the one before it...I wasn't sure who you were addressing,
without the re-quote.
I was was just trying to find out what it meant TO HIM, personally,
when he said, 'God sent His Son to 'Give us a chance' at peace'.
I was just trying to get him to elaborate on where he arrived at that
statement, and why he does or doesn't believe it, i.e., What does it MEAN to him?

God bless you, coby.

Oh it was for the TS. I should have quoted the opening post. He asked if God wasn't also responsible for the bad things.
All He could have done to prevent it was not create man at all.

I've been accused of similar things. But in my case it's more of not letting people see that i am quite an emotional person.

Though, i have to disagree with you on one point, well, partially disagree. Granted, a parents first inclination may be to protect their children at all costs, from every negative experience. Well, i've never had children of my own, but i have had a part in helping raise others children. One thing i have learned is that it is actually Unhealthy to prevent negative experiences from impacting your child. Sure, mostly they should be protected. But if you shelter a child from pain and consequences, how will he cope as an adult? He has no survival skills, no coping skills. He is a defenseless, naive prey.
And in some cases, a kid may not learn Unless they have a negative consequence. I know, for myself, there are some things i just can't 'get' until i do it myself. No amount of explaining or warning will stop me.
Ive even read this idea of letting children experience some degree of negative actions is good for them. This is something God knew long before we as humans figured it out.
As in my previous statement, this may not be The answer you seek, but it may be another piece of the puzzle that leads to the answer. Suffering is a part of life, so being protected from all suffering isn't' always good. People learn best, not when things are easy, but when they are difficult. The lessons are learned more deeply and have more of an impact when the person has to fight and struggle to get them. And they are more likely to hold to the conviction of what they've learned through the struggle, than if they just 'get it' without experiencing it.

Pretty simple. Whenever I think of Heaven, I picture a place of absolute peace In my mind.

That is a good one coby (smile)...and though there is a part of me that agrees...I'm sure that there could have been other ways to prevent bad. He could have stopped Lucifers rebellion before it reached the point of war in Heaven. He could have NOT even created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; those are just a couple of things I can think of on my extremely limited human capacity.

I know that we are humans could never even vaguely begin to understand why God does what he does, and I am certain the IS good reason why He does what He does...but I am pretty sure that being as powerful and intelligent as God is, He could have come up with another way of testing human faithfulness without allowing bad things to happen, if He really wanted to.

It kind of makes me wonder what life for humans will be like when this world is done and there is the " New heaven and earth" mentioned in Revelations. I am only assuming that on this new earth, there will be no such thing as sin, and humans will live in a way similar to they were meant to in the days of Adam and Eve, before their disobedience. If this is the case, then people would not do bad things, even if they had free will...or would they?

You seem like a good guy, coby; I would be interested in your thoughts.

Okay, thanks. I hope you know I wasn't trying to be critical or challenging to you...It was your use of the expression, 'give us A CHANCE at peace that had me curious, as I don't know if I heard it put quite like that before.

Does picturing a place of absolute peace work for you?
Silly question, obviously it does or you wouldn't do it,
I guess I should say, I can't really visualize a perfect place of peace,
That has always kind of eluded me.

I know the bible says, 'Thou shalt keep him in perfect peace,
whos mind is stayed on thee, because he trusts in thee'.

I don't know where that's written, psalms maybe, and I can't believe
I even remembered it, (thank you, Lord), but even that, I struggle
sometimes to understand and know how to apply. Thx for the reply.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ugly posted :
--But if you shelter a child from pain and consequences,
how will he cope as an adult? He has no survival skills,
no coping skills. He is a defenseless, naive prey.
And in some cases, a kid may not learn
Unless they have a negative consequence.
I know, for myself, there are some things i just can't 'get'
until i do it myself. No amount of explaining or warning will stop me.--
-------------------------------------------
Yes, ugly, I can attest to this first hand.
I don't blame my folks, they're the greatest,
I wouldn't ask the Lord for any others. Ever.

But pop being military, it left mom to do more of the
raising, discipline of me, and I also, shamefully, learned
how to manipulate to get my way with her.
I really really hate myself about that to this day.....
And I hate manipulaters, too, but I really have to
remember God's long-suffering towards me, and try to
excercise that same grace towards others, but, man, I just
get really bugged by ppl who manipulate/deceive, with the
intent of causing harm.

I do wish I had learned the lessons when I had the chance,
I can relate to the naivete and not really learning how to
take care of myself, and it seems when you get to a certain age,
no one's really interested in giving you much help, I guess they resent
that they had to earn their way the hard way, so you just have to
try to hold on for whatever time is left.
But I blame myself....as they say, you sow to the wind,
you reap the whirlwind. Many regrets.

On a lighter note, that last part of your post reminds me
of a cartoon, where a little kid is heading for a wall receptacle
with a fork in his hand. The mom yells, Stop, johnny, be careful,
but the dad interrupts and says, No, Martha...let him go.
The kid gets zapped, and as he's laying in a heap, glowing and shivering,
the dad says, See, that'll learn ya, he won't do THAT again, martha!

(Hey, I know, I'm not advocating that, literally.....
it was just a funny comic, but I kinda get the point.)

DainMorgan, would you mind sharing some of your beliefs that differ from most Christians? That would help us to see what direction you're coming from. Thanks, mate.

My father was a Baptist minister, extremely abusive, and one of the biggest hypocrites I've ever met. Both sides of my family where "religious", but bad people. Throughout my entire childhood up until the time I finally escaped from home I was given the impression that "Christians" were bad people who wore a mask of righteousness. I left home angry, bitter, confused...hating my parents, hating people in general, hating myself, even hating God. I had suffered much abuse, and while I didn't blame God, I felt hurt that he never saved me.

Despite my bitter feelings I still believed that God was my best choice of obtaining peace, and so I searched various different religions hoping to find my place. Eventually I met a coworker who was Catholic and he convinced me to attend his church; he had convinced me that Catholicism was the path to truth and enlightenment. For months I studied he Catholic faith under an extremely traditional priest who spit venom against every other denomination and even other Catholics who he felt did not fall in line with the way that the religion was meant to be. In his sermons he would growl about the evil of man, about how we were an eye sore to God, a blemish on nature because of our sinfulness. It got to the point to where I fell into a deep depression, I dreaded each day, wanting to die, hating my existence.

But then one day, while meditating long and hard on Original Sin, I had somewhat of an epiphany. It occurred to me that sin entered into the world when man disobeyed God, however man was not the author of sin; he may have unleashed it, but he did not create it. Satan played his part in unleashing it, but he did not created either. And it became obvious to me, that just as an anarchist creates a computer virus and uses misdirection to avoid being caught in his deed; God had done the same thing. To make matters worse; God blamed man for his own sinful nature, as if man had ask to be born sinful. We are born sinners, surrounded and influenced by sin every day of our lives, and then made to feel like the lowest scum of the earth because we are sinners... something we had absolutely no choice in. The concept...had me steaming.

That, in combination with my upbringing, drastically altered my views of God. I did not see him as a kind, loving, merciful father figure; but rather a sadistic, selfish, dictator, who demanded a loyalty no matter how crappy he treated his subjects. And if we did not fall in line in the exact way that he wanted us to, there was hell to pay; literally.

Even then...I wanted to be wrong; I engaged religious figures with my dilemma in hopes that they would convince me that I was wrong. Every single conversation I had, EVERY SINGLE CONVERSATION...man's "free will" was to use as a quick and easy answer to shift the blame away from God. It got to the point to where the words "free will" annoyed me. It seemed to me that Christians were, willfully blind, brainwashed, incapable of seeing that man would not have shot himself in the head with a gun, if his father had not left a loaded gun on the table. They ignore the fact, that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was a completely pointless tree that had absolutely no reason for existence, except for the intentional corruption of man.

But Christians are easily offended by this. Christians are taught that God is 100% good, that he has nothing but the best of intentions for mankind; that He is The knight in shining armor here to save us, and everyone else is to blame for the bad in our world. For someone to point out the darker nature of our God is blasphemous. I have been told many times that I am NOT a Christian, because I do not believe in an all loving, all merciful God. A God who would gladly promote our death if it meant that He would be glorified.

But....

I understand that He is God. He is the creator of all. I cannot win in a battle against Him; and so all I can do is bow and accept Him has what He has shown me He is.

Have have tried really hard not feel the way that I do. I have tried the, "everything happens for a good reason" type of thinking. I really do want to believe that God is all good; but then I turn on the news to hear something like...how a father raped his six month old daughter...and all I want to do is scream.

Gosh! I'm very sorry to hear all you've been through. That's horrible. Thanks for sharing, it must've been difficult. The thing is though, God can't have created sin, for sin isn't a thing in and of itself. Sin is an absence of God's goodness, sin is corrupted good. And God is holy so He hates sin, He hates it with a righteous anger. When humanity rebelled against God that was huge. It's reverberations are felt throughout creation. When the created rebel against the Creator, when the created try to be the Creator, of course the world is going to become hellish. But that's not the end of the story. Jesus will restore creation to its original state when He returns.

I see why your picture of God is screwed up, it's because your earthly representative of God (your dad) was a screw-up. He didn't show you God's love. Thankfully, God's love is like the love of no earthly father. Your journey of healing will likely be a long one, but with God's help and with the help of others (even counsellors) your future can only look brighter. Thank you for your honesty.

whispers : TINTIN JACKS BACK APPARENTLY WW3 STARTS IN 3 DAYS

No; thank you Tintin. Thank you for your words, and for not judging me.

missy2014...

Who's Jack?

You dont want to know..... hahah

Lol thanks, but I'm not a guy.
I had a discussion about all these things on an atheist forum with a bunch of angry ex christian atheists who jumped on me with all their questions. One is a Dawkins type. He wrote a book like him. God was evil. Well I showed them that there was absolutely no other way and He's innocent. I'll try to share it later. I found it quite interesting myself all those questions and later my kid asked me those. That was funny, because he listened to me. Wonder if they did lol.