The good/bad things

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tigress

Junior Member
Feb 22, 2016
13
1
3
#41
My father was a Baptist minister, extremely abusive, and one of the biggest hypocrites I've ever met. Both sides of my family where "religious", but bad people. Throughout my entire childhood up until the time I finally escaped from home I was given the impression that "Christians" were bad people who wore a mask of righteousness. I left home angry, bitter, confused...hating my parents, hating people in general, hating myself, even hating God. I had suffered much abuse, and while I didn't blame God, I felt hurt that he never saved me.

Despite my bitter feelings I still believed that God was my best choice of obtaining peace, and so I searched various different religions hoping to find my place. Eventually I met a coworker who was Catholic and he convinced me to attend his church; he had convinced me that Catholicism was the path to truth and enlightenment. For months I studied he Catholic faith under an extremely traditional priest who spit venom against every other denomination and even other Catholics who he felt did not fall in line with the way that the religion was meant to be. In his sermons he would growl about the evil of man, about how we were an eye sore to God, a blemish on nature because of our sinfulness. It got to the point to where I fell into a deep depression, I dreaded each day, wanting to die, hating my existence.

But then one day, while meditating long and hard on Original Sin, I had somewhat of an epiphany. It occurred to me that sin entered into the world when man disobeyed God, however man was not the author of sin; he may have unleashed it, but he did not create it. Satan played his part in unleashing it, but he did not created either. And it became obvious to me, that just as an anarchist creates a computer virus and uses misdirection to avoid being caught in his deed; God had done the same thing. To make matters worse; God blamed man for his own sinful nature, as if man had ask to be born sinful. We are born sinners, surrounded and influenced by sin every day of our lives, and then made to feel like the lowest scum of the earth because we are sinners... something we had absolutely no choice in. The concept...had me steaming.

That, in combination with my upbringing, drastically altered my views of God. I did not see him as a kind, loving, merciful father figure; but rather a sadistic, selfish, dictator, who demanded a loyalty no matter how crappy he treated his subjects. And if we did not fall in line in the exact way that he wanted us to, there was hell to pay; literally.

Even then...I wanted to be wrong; I engaged religious figures with my dilemma in hopes that they would convince me that I was wrong. Every single conversation I had, EVERY SINGLE CONVERSATION...man's "free will" was to use as a quick and easy answer to shift the blame away from God. It got to the point to where the words "free will" annoyed me. It seemed to me that Christians were, willfully blind, brainwashed, incapable of seeing that man would not have shot himself in the head with a gun, if his father had not left a loaded gun on the table. They ignore the fact, that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was a completely pointless tree that had absolutely no reason for existence, except for the intentional corruption of man.

But Christians are easily offended by this. Christians are taught that God is 100% good, that he has nothing but the best of intentions for mankind; that He is The knight in shining armor here to save us, and everyone else is to blame for the bad in our world. For someone to point out the darker nature of our God is blasphemous. I have been told many times that I am NOT a Christian, because I do not believe in an all loving, all merciful God. A God who would gladly promote our death if it meant that He would be glorified.

But....

I understand that He is God. He is the creator of all. I cannot win in a battle against Him; and so all I can do is bow and accept Him has what He has shown me He is.

Have have tried really hard not feel the way that I do. I have tried the, "everything happens for a good reason" type of thinking. I really do want to believe that God is all good; but then I turn on the news to hear something like...how a father raped his six month old daughter...and all I want to do is scream.


I do understand where you're coming from. I've heard it many times...especially from PK's. We see the worse in a lot of situations. I think where most fail to realize when the come to understanding that good and evil originates from God, is what he did in the beginning. He separated the light from the darkness. This isn't a physical event. This is God himself separating good and evil in himself. Go back and look at the beginning again. Lord let your spirit help his understanding.
 
C

coby

Guest
#42
Why God is innocent, my explanation:
Jesus who is God is the innocent blameless Lamb that takes away the sins of the world. If He was even a bit evil He couldn't have done that.
If God was evil it's amazing that He could create such kind wonderful people. An evil mind can't even make that.
They always say God knew everything. That's not in the Bible, only that He knows the beginning from the end: the (re)creation of this world.
He could not have known that Lucifer would become a devil. If He foreknew and created him anyway one guy said that's like making a robot you know will morph into a destroyer. That's evil.
He created Adam innocent after His Image.
Yet He knew good and evil.
Know is know through experience. You can experience evil by sinning. God never sinned. So the only way He could get to know it was by experience when Lucifer fell.
The reason he could fall was that he has an ego. People have too. People are like Him and also want to be like God which isn't wrong but only possible if you obey Him. Otherwise you get pride and evil.
If He wouldn't let satan there if He could keep him away people would have said: What is this? He did nothing and You punish him. You are evil. Man could have sinned one day or the other without a devil anyway.
The problems in the world:
People follow the devil so he uses them to kill.
Christians have to stand up to end him and often don't know, but if not everyone follows Him they will kill the good ones like you see Isis do. God wants everyone saved, even killers. Christians could fight the devil much more and prevent much more and we could have world revival and will have, but now most are asleep or unaware of their authority and His Body on earth doesn't function. He can't just do what He wants here, otherwise everyone was saved and healed. We need to invite Him by prayer and people have free will to reject Him, but a lot of times with more prayer things can be prevented. Earthquakes and everything is a result from the fall, unevitable.
He could not only create people that would follow Him. All babies would want to but then the devil deceives. An enemy of Me did that. He didn't.
He gave the authority to man. We rent the earth. He can only end it all but He waits for His sons to stand up and the harvest to come in.
 

sharkwhales

Senior Member
Jan 31, 2016
280
25
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#44
When discussing the condition of our world with Christians, they very rightly give praise for all the good things to our Lord; after all, He is the creator of everything. But when discussing the negative aspects of our world, the blame is placed upon Satan; the blame is placed upon man and our “free will”. Sometimes “no one is to blame”.

The thing is this: man has many flaws and limitation, Satan and his fallen angels are powerful, but they too have limitations. So why is it that when bad things happen in the world, ALL blame is placed upon the flawed, limited beings; while the ONE being who is the creator of EVERYTHING, who is ALL seeing, ALL knowing, ALL powerful, ALL omnipotent…isn’t held the slightest bit responsible for any of it?
First off, God is held responsible through our expectations of them, we expect them to be God; to save us, to keep us going, to make it all make sense in the end. And this is what God has been doing. If becoming a human being and dying and rising again to take dominion and make all things new, isn't taking responsibility for humanity's plight, I don't know what is.

Also, the simplistic human terms for God's power, knowledge, and so on, can cause a lot of confusion.

I have to ask you, if you've been struggling so much, have you gone to God directly and asked for an answer?


Allow me to please put in in another way: let's say that I was a scientist who created a brand-new, and completely horrifying virus, for reasons only known to myself. I tell my children "NEVER go down into the basement where my lab is, if you do you could possibly release a flesh-eating virus that will painfully, horribly consume every living thing in the world".

But while I'm away, of course kids will be kids; and they go to the basement anyway to play, break a vile that contains the killer virus, and release it into the atmosphere. Hundreds of thousand of people suffer or die before I find a cure to save the world.

Then, on a televised broadcast, I put complete blame on my children for releasing this virus into the world. Because if they had just listened to me, it would not have happen. I am sure to point out that I didn't "make" my children do this; that they did it of their own free will.

So now...

Are the children held SOLELY responsible for the suffering of thousands because they did not listen to me, and are the ones who released the virus? While I...the one who created the virus in the first place (the tree of the knowledge of good and evil...for those who may not have figured it out) is held totally, completely unaccountable in any way?
Don't get me wrong, I am not putting total blame on God for the condition of our world. But even as a child, I remember sitting in church sermons and listening to a preacher shouting about how bad humans are, how sinful we are, and how we all deserved death. And even as a child I would think to myself...I did not ask to be the way that I am; but because I was born this way I will be looked upon by God as one of the dirty, filthy humans who destroyed His perfect world. I felt guilty for being alive. But I did not ask to be a sinner; nor did I ask to be alive.

Will me finding the answer to my personal dilemma change the world; no. In the larger scheme of things, is me finding the answer of any real importance; for everyone except me...no.

God seems to blame us for being hateful, for being lustful, for being prideful...as if WE are the ones who created these negative emotions that plague us. Yes we have free will, but the darker side of our nature, is not something we had a choice in.
A few points in response to this:

The knowledge of good and evil, isn't a virus. It isn't evil. God created us to be like them (the trinity). The choices presented to mankind in the garden of eden, as I understand them, were meant to bring man into this state of being in a cooperative way instead of a selfish way. If man had chosen to obey God in regards to that fruit, he would have been learning about good and evil by doing good. I don't believe it was just a trap.

Second, following your metaphor of children, there are certainly things that children can be endangered by, which are in their own homes. Stovetops, electric outlets, power tools, cleaning chemicals, knives, guns. And yet the parents aren't portrayed as evil for having these things. It is not possible to remove all risk and danger to your child, from the world -- unless you want to cut your child off from the world, keeping them from developing fully.

Third, we remain in a sort of childhood as long as we are in this life, and as bad as the suffering seems here, it is still only temporary compared to eternity. It is better to have difficulty here that prepares us for eternity, than to have an easy time here and a bad eternity. The real danger is what happens to us in eternity -- not so much what happens in this life for its own sake.

I believe God is endeavoring to prepare us for an eternal environment and so we must experience difficulty. I do not believe God blames us for 'everything', or that we are held responsible for anything more than the actions of our own heart in the context of our own lives. We may suffer unfairly or be unfairly fortunate in life because of the nature of the world, but that does not define how God feels about us. I believe that anything in life which influences or burdens or takes away our choices unfairly, is taken into account, and that God is very gracious in many ways.

As for God seeming to blame us -- a lot of what you describe seems to come from religious spirits, not from God. They continually wage war against our connection with God, by misrepresenting God to us in ways that hurt and shame and cause us to hide ourselves like adam and eve did. To avoid intimacy out of self-loathing. Look, what if God isn't about blame as much as you think he is? Maybe the answers you need are with the Holy Spirit, exploring where the guilt comes from? I say this without agreeing with any judgement against you. I just know that there's a spiritual war and they will use accusations, guilt, false identities, to suppress you from coming 'as you are' before God's throne of grace. And given that, I'm glad you came forward with this question. But please believe God is willing and wants to answer, and can give you an answer sufficient to the questions of your heart.
 
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DainMorgan

Guest
#46
I have to ask you, if you've been struggling so much, have you gone to God directly and asked for an answer?
sharkwhales,

I absolutely love the way that you responded to my post, it was a perfect mix of spirituality and intellect without being overly preachy, or condeming. I have read your words many time, and will more than likely read the over an over again so that I can learn from them and take them to heart.

To answer your question; I have gone directly to God and expressed my concerns. I do feel that in various ways He has answered them. But maybe I didn't like the answers, or was stubborn and unwilling to accept the truth.

Thank again for your response; I could tell that you put a great deal of effort into it.