The Holy spirit isn't in the bible.

so then Genesis is wrong when it speaks of the Holy Spirit hovering over the the waters?

gotcha

it was my understanding that from the very beginning, we see God working by His Spirit...the Holy Spirit

so you don't believe in the Trinity and have somehow managed to massage the word into something you can accept

please excuse me if do not accept your version over every other translation on the planet

I suppose you are correct, however matthew 28.19 isn't scripture, and I think it's the only one that says that, or perhaps one of the very few. I did a feeble search and found no instances of a genitive holy spirit having a definite article in front of it.

You ignored my response, is there a reason? I think such examples clearly reveal an interaction with the Spirit of God as a person.

the article the is in the accusative case and is feminine singular. Spirit is in the genitive case and is neuter singular, so the article the doesn't modify 'holy spirit' as it does in the spurious matthew 28.19 where the is genitive neuter just like spirit. so apparently it reads 'forbidden the, of holy spirit,...." I"m assuming based on a vague recollection, that the doesn't mean the but something else like maybe he or them, then, that would make sense, "forbidden they, of (or from) holy spirit,". I know for sure that sometimes the definite article is translated as the exclamation O, as in "thy throne O God". O in that sentence is the definite article the, so the doesn't always mean the.

interesting, I have to do some more digging on this accusative the with a genitive holy spirit.

Hello angel2u2,

So, what exactly is your point here? Nothing that you have written above changes the person of the Holy Spirit nor his function within the church and individual believer's .

In the very same chapter during the same conversation, Jesus describes that Comforter as 'another comforter' which the father will send. (John 14:16-17)

If the Father was sending himself, Jesus would say 'the Father is sending himself', he wouldn't say, 'the Father is sending someone else'.

Your idea that Jesus is talking about the Father talking about Himself in the 3rd person is desperately reaching. You seem to be performing semantic acrobatics to dance around something that is obvious to everyone else. Your transliteration of greek is also quite lacking. Please don't waste people's time, if you want to teach people, get revelation from God, don't just use your own brain.

Subtle. lol

I don't mean it as an insult, just that we all fail to comprehend what God is doing when we rely on our own understanding too heavily.

"...which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." (2 corinthians 2:13-14)

oK, my eyesight isn't so good, i was looking at the wrong the the in the interlinear source I was using. it does say 'the holy spirit in the genitive case. My interpretation is that 'the holy spirit' is a personification. God is personifying his spirit, which means speaking of his spirit as if it were another being. Like when Mary said "my soul doth magnify the lord" in luke 1.46. Mary's soul isn't the 2nd person of Mary, she is just personifying her soul. It's a figure of speech.

the important thing about all this is that if the bible had said, which it doesn't, repeatedly 'the holy spirit", then it would be more unlikely that 'the holy spirit' was being used as a personification,but since that the holy spirit is very rare, it reenforces the idea that 'the holy spirit' is being used as a personification.

So when the Holy Spirit descended as a dove at Jesus' baptism and God, the Father spoke of His Son in whom He is well pleased, it was a figure of speech speaking of God's Spirit descending?

I read the passage, and it appears to me that Jesus was identifying himself as a helper when we ask for anything in his name, the holy spirit, aka God the father, is the other helper. That's my understanding, not that there are two holy spirit helpers.

the spirit descended as a dove not that it was a dove. plus it doesn't say 'the holy spirit' in that verse, it says 'the spirit , the holy. in other words it
's just identifying Gods spirit as what descended. God is holy, the holy, and God is spirit, the spirit. So there's no personification involved here.

Proverbs 4:7 - "The beginning of wisdom is: Acquire wisdom; And with all your acquiring, get understanding.
Nehemiah 8:8 - So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.


when one gives the sense of scripture, then one understands the scripture. When one gives the nonsense of scripture (trinity) no one understands the scripture.

Yes, its a simile but the fact is He was present. I'm going to give you a link to read, and I think you'll find it clear that the Holy Spirit is, indeed, a person.

Verses Showing Identity, Ministry, Personhood of the Holy Spirit|Activities of the Holy Spirit|Forms of the Holy Spirit

they just falsely list a whole bunch of scriptures as saying 'the holy spirit' when none of them do. CARM should change their name to Trinity.

here's something interesting that I found.




John 14:26 - "But the Helper, the... - Verse-by-Verse Commentary


Bullinger lists 28 times that the words 'the spirit, the holy' are falsely translated as the Holy Spirit. How do translators get away with this? Apparently no one cares. except me of course.