Questions

Thank you PrynceNY,
Yes I did go on my knees and beseech God to reveal himself and show meaning. I cried and pleaded and offered my whole self to be an instrument of his will. I now realise I was wrong and there was no truth to it. Matthew 7 for example, I came to view as a cruel lie. It wasn't me that fell short of the glory of God but all of the things I was brainwashed with that fell short of reality.

Thank you Ugly (an odd choice of name) for your very thoughtful response. What you wrote is beautiful and sincere and I appreciate it. I related to your testimony of how you were never immoral anyway. Neither am I, I have never cheated on anyone and never would - I have never stolen anything and I try to be a decent person to others. I think you're wrong though in saying that I've chosen to live a life in the way that I have. I can't believe things I don't so there's no choice and I'm not advocating for a life based on nothingness - it's just the conclusion I've come to upon an honest appraisal of the facts. If I could get past the problem of theodicy and vicarious redemption and the horror of the old testament and the absurdity of it all and accept the Christian worldview, perhaps it would engender a sort of sense of purpose - the only snag is, I don't. I can't make myself believe something because I like the purpose such a belief would impart. Nihilism is awful and so is cancer; I can't wish things away.

Cheers Chokmahiel,

I don't think there's any meaning outside of God. My position is that there is no meaning at all in a universal sense. I'm not sure what you mean by destiny, are you using it to cover determinism? I would never say for example that it is the destiny of black holes to attract matter or the destiny of squirrels to climb trees, the word destiny here is a bit loaded and implies a sort of teleological ordering and framing of things that I don't believe. If you mean destiny in the sense of X, Y and Z happens then yes, that's mundanely true. I don't think anyone who believes in the big bang or evolution elevates it to 'a meaning of life' - it's just observed reality; there's no higher power necessary which reminds me of Laplace and to Napoleon with his famous 'it works well enough without that hypothesis' referring to his celestial mechanic model and the absence of God.

As for your point about evolution, it is a fact - it is rock solid and the evidence is overwhelming, there is no debate there. I know it's true myself and will happily provide loads of evidence if you like. There is no evidence which stand against it. You've been misled - not a single part of it has been even so much as thrown into doubt, it has made predictions - every branch of science that it encompasses it has borne it out with resounding confirmation.

Also, you may not be convinced of evolution but it is a fact and there is not a scintilla of contravening evidence against it despite what you say. There is no debate on it, at least no serious academic debate on it - there is the odd creationist objection with not basis in science. There is a 'debate' as to whether evolution is true in the same way there is a 'debate' as to whether Elvis Presley is still alive.

Also, you may not be convinced of evolution but it is a fact and there is not a scintilla of contravening evidence against it despite what you say. There is no debate on it, at least no serious academic debate on it - there is the odd creationist objection with not basis in science. There is a 'debate' as to whether evolution is true in the same way there is a 'debate' as to whether Elvis Presley is still alive.

You're making the mistake of not understanding what a theory is in a scientific context. You're muddling the everyday term theory meaning hypothesis or conjecture with the scientific usage of theory which is a substantiated explanation of a particular phenomenon. There are so many facts substantiating it that it is beyond reproach.

Thank you blue_ladybug,
Yes, I'm happy to tell you why I no longer believe:
At first I became perturbed by the fact that God didn't seem to be doing anything, he had no effect in my life at all aside from the initial rush of joy from feeling God had a plan for me etc. I was a Christian at the age of 15 and very enthusiastic, I felt awful pangs of guilt for all my observations of it not making sense. I studied and examined things as I got older. Before I even knew the Bible that well, I was perplexed with inconsistencies in things like omnipitence and the problem of evil. I remember thinking, 'this makes no sense - it's ridiculous' about a guy dying on a cross to purge sins I was born with because of talking snakes etc. I was lonely and withdrawn in my earlier years and I suffered from undiagnosed depression - it's clear now but at the time I hated myself for doubting my saviour and went through so much mental anguish. I eventually jettisoned the whole enterprise realising I couldn't keep up the pretense. I read voraciously - I particularly liked the words of Farrel Till. The more I learnt the more I saw how ridiculous and untenable the whole thing was. I even feel embarrased now for wasting so much time wishing something now regard as ridiculous to be true.

tourist,

You're making the mistake of not understanding what a theory is in a scientific context. You're muddling the everyday term theory meaning hypothesis or conjecture with the scientific usage of theory which is a substantiated explanation of a particular phenomenon. There are so many facts substantiating it that it is beyond reproach. Ok then, how about the fact that evolutionary biology, after noticing the disparity in chromosomes in chimps and humans postulated that since there was a common ancestor, two chromosomes must have fused somewhere in the evolutionary history. The was later confirmed by observing telemeres in the body of the chromosomes which are normally at the end - proving that this had indeed occured.

tourist,

You're making the mistake of not understanding what a theory is in a scientific context. You're muddling the everyday term theory meaning hypothesis or conjecture with the scientific usage of theory which is a substantiated explanation of a particular phenomenon. There are so many facts substantiating it that it is beyond reproach. Ok then, how about the fact that evolutionary biology, after noticing the disparity in chromosomes in chimps and humans postulated that since there was a common ancestor, two chromosomes must have fused somewhere in the evolutionary history. The was later confirmed by observing telemeres in the body of the chromosomes which are normally at the end - proving that this had indeed occured.

I remember thinking, 'this makes no sense - it's ridiculous' about a guy dying on a cross to purge sins I was born with because of talking snakes etc. I was lonely and withdrawn in my earlier years and I suffered from undiagnosed depression - it's clear now but at the time I hated myself for doubting my saviour and went through so much mental anguish. I eventually jettisoned the whole enterprise realising I couldn't keep up the pretense. I read voraciously - I particularly liked the words of Farrel Till. The more I learnt the more I saw how ridiculous and untenable the whole thing was. I even feel embarrased now for wasting so much time wishing something now regard as ridiculous to be true.

First of all, I should disclose that I am an atheist, also that I am not a troll and have the utmost respect for everyone's beliefs here. I was a Christian years ago and came to a point where I could no longer believe. However I still miss the zeal and reassurance that I had at the time. A sort of disagree with Lawrence Kraus and Richard Dawkins in that I do think a finite existence without purpose is fundamentally pointless, yes we can do things in the intervening period and help people but I'm a reluctant nihilst as a result of my current understanding of life and the universe. I can't pretend to believe something I don't and I'm very well educated on the pertinent subjects. My question is, does anyone here have any tips or experiences that are inately human and do not require a hope in the supernatural to be sustained? Is there anything you would say, you have learned from your teachings and in your life that demonstrates meaning outside of ideas about the second coming and mansions in heaven and God's plan? My current modus operandus is to just get on with things despite how ultimately hollow it is - I'm not proselytizing my existential outlook, I just find it hard to see it all as anything more than an irrelevant lark. Like I said, I'm not here to criticise or challenge anyone's faith, I'll happily dicuss anyhing with anyone though and anyone is welcome to challenge or ask me anything. The question may even be alien in the fact that, I suppose I'm asking, have you learnt anything about approaching life that has given you meaning that it would stand on its own if God and fate etc. did not exist?