Are we justified by works?

[Chris1975]

How Jesus judges the churches in the book of Revelation:

[h=1]Revelation 3New King James Version (NKJV)[/h] [h=3]The Dead Church[/h]3 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,
‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God.[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]3 [/SUP]Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You[SUP][b][/SUP] have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. [SUP]5 [/SUP]He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

 

[Chris1975]

[h=3]The Faithful Church[/h][SUP]7 [/SUP]“And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write,
‘These things says He who is holy, He who is true, “He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens”:[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]8 [/SUP]“I know your works.


[h=3]The Lukewarm Church[/h][SUP]14 [/SUP]“And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans[SUP][f][/SUP] write,

‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: [SUP]15 [/SUP]“I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. [SUP]16 [/SUP]So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot,[SUP][g][/SUP] I will vomit you out of My mouth.


VOMITING THEM OUT INTO.......HEAVEN??

 

[dcontroversal]

How Jesus judges the churches in the book of Revelation:

Revelation 3New King James Version (NKJV)

The Dead Church

3 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,
‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God.[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]3 [/SUP]Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You[SUP][b][/SUP] have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. [SUP]5 [/SUP]He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

So what....no different than all of the other instructions and statements made unto the saved and churches.....

and what is it that overcomes.....EVEN OUR FAITH........

 

[Chris1975]

[h=3]The Loveless Church[/h]2 “To the angel of the church of Ephesus write,

‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: [SUP]2 [/SUP]“I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; [SUP]3 [/SUP]and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have not become weary. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’



OSAS STARTING TO LOOK A LITTLE SHAKY AT THIS POINT.

 

[Chris1975]

[h=3]The Persecuted Church[/h][SUP]8 [/SUP]“And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,

‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: [SUP]9 [/SUP]“I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”’

 

[Chris1975]

[h=3]The Compromising Church[/h][SUP]12 [/SUP]“And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write,
‘These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword: [SUP]13 [/SUP]“I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]16 [/SUP]Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it.”’

 

[Chris1975]

[h=3]The Corrupt Church[/h][SUP]18 [/SUP]“And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write,

‘These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: [SUP]19 [/SUP]“I know your works, love, service, faith,[SUP][b][/SUP] and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow[SUP][c][/SUP] that woman[SUP][d][/SUP] Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce[SUP][e][/SUP] My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. [SUP]21 [/SUP]And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent.[SUP](SO WAS SHE SAVED AT ONE POINT?)f][/SUP] [SUP]22 [/SUP]Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their[SUP][g][/SUP] deeds. [SUP]23 [/SUP]I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]“Now to you I say, and[SUP][h][/SUP] to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will[SUP][i][/SUP] put on you no other burden. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But hold fast what you have till I come. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

 

[dcontroversal]

the pharisees had no works which lead them to a dead fallen state. Jesus was critical on this. you have to have works.

AHAHHAH this has got to be one of the funniest post of all time if not so tragic.....the problem with the Pharisees is they TRUSTED INTO THEIR WORKS....JUST AS WORKERS FOR DO.....

HOW is it that you guys are so blind what JESUS said about the PLENTEOUS IN NUMBER THAT COME BEFORE HIS THRONE

a. Claiming to know him and be believers
b. BRAGGED, boasted and trusted into their WORKS IN HIS NAME as their right to ENTER


THEY were NEVER SAVED because JESUS said I NEVER KNEW THEM

WHY...they TRUSTED INTO WORKS and attempted a DIFFERENT DOOR

FAITH plus WORKS for salvation = a DIFFERENT DOOR

 

[dcontroversal]

The Loveless Church

2 “To the angel of the church of Ephesus write,

‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: [SUP]2 [/SUP]“I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; [SUP]3 [/SUP]and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have not become weary. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’



OSAS STARTING TO LOOK A LITTLE SHAKY AT THIS POINT.

NOT really and big bolded letters will not make your false points and double cursed dogma right....!

and the verses you cite do not even have to do with salvation.....more out of context and twisted fluff.....

 

[Chris1975]

AHAHHAH this has got to be one of the funniest post of all time if not so tragic.....the problem with the Pharisees is they TRUSTED INTO THEIR WORKS....JUST AS WORKERS FOR DO.....

HOW is it that you guys are so blind what JESUS said about the PLENTEOUS IN NUMBER THAT COME BEFORE HIS THRONE

a. Claiming to know him and be believers
b. BRAGGED, boasted and trusted into their WORKS IN HIS NAME as their right to ENTER


THEY were NEVER SAVED because JESUS said I NEVER KNEW THEM

WHY...they TRUSTED INTO WORKS and attempted a DIFFERENT DOOR

FAITH plus WORKS for salvation = a DIFFERENT DOOR

[SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

 

[dcontroversal]

[SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Ride that out of context verse right to the pit.....

SHOW ME YOUR FAITH pal.....Paul said We are justified before GOD by faith.....JAMES is speaking of before MEN....too bad you still trust self.....

WHAT is it that overcomes this world John said......EVEN OUR FAITH<------NO WOKS REQUIRED

 

[reneweddaybyday]

[SUP]JAMES 2v18-24[/SUP]


[SUP]18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]d[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] works, and I will show you my faith by my[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]e[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] works. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! [SUP]20 [/SUP]But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]f[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? [SUP]23 [/SUP]And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]g[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] And he was called the friend of God. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.


If you don't understand the above, then your theology needs a rethink.

What is your understanding of the above verses?

bump for Chris1975 --- what is your understanding of the verses in the OP?

 

[BillG]

Justification before men. Why do we need to be justified before men? Are are to love our neighbour, sure. But to be justified before men?? Is that scriptural?

The justification by works of which James is speaking is a different type of justification. This type of justification is before other people. In other words, James is using the word justified to mean “proved.” We prove to others our genuine faith in Christ through our works. But the justification that comes through faith is before God, and we do not “prove” ourselves to Him; instead, God declares us righteous through our association with Christ, the One who died for our sins

So when we love others we prove to others we have been justified by faith in Jesus.

Think about it this way.

First remove justified as you understand it to mean.

Think about it this way.

I will prove to you that I am justified by God as a result of my faith in Jesus. As a result my faith will follow through.
I will love you as I love myself, even if you don't love me I will love you, I will go the extra mile with you.

 

[Johnny_B]

[SUP]JAMES 2v18-24

18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[SUP][d][/SUP] works, and I will show you my faith by my[SUP][e][/SUP] works. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! [SUP]20 [/SUP]But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[SUP][f][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? [SUP]23 [/SUP]And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][g][/SUP] And he was called the friend of God. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

If you don't understand the above, then your theology needs a rethink.

I'm glad I'm not justified by my faith in the sight of God or man. Paul declares that the believer is justified by the faith of Christ. I'll take Christ's faith over my faith any day.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

J. B. Phillips Translation of the New Testament, Peter sums it all up in II Peter 1:3-11

3-4 He has by his own action given us everything that is necessary for living the truly good life, in allowing us to know the one who has called us to him, through his own glorious goodness. It is through him that God’s greatest and most precious promises have become available to us men, making it possible for you to escape the inevitable disintegration that lust produces in the world and to share in God’s essential nature.

5-7 For this very reason you must do your utmost from your side, and see that your faith carries with it real goodness of life. Your goodness must be accompanied by knowledge, your knowledge by self-control, your self-control by the ability to endure. Your endurance too must always be accompanied by devotion to God; that in turn must have in it the quality of brotherliness, and your brotherliness must lead on to Christian love.

8-9 If you have these qualities existing and growing in you then it means that knowing our Lord Jesus Christ has not made your lives either complacent or unproductive. The man whose life fails to exhibit these qualities is short-sighted—he can no longer see the reason why he was cleansed from his former sins.

10-11 Set your minds, then, on endorsing by your conduct the fact that God has called and chosen you. If you go along the lines I have indicated above, there is no reason why you should stumble, and if you have lived the sort of life I have recommended God will open wide to you the gates of the eternal kingdom of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ.

 

[dcontroversal]

The justification by works of which James is speaking is a different type of justification. This type of justification is before other people. In other words, James is using the word justified to mean “proved.” We prove to others our genuine faith in Christ through our works. But the justification that comes through faith is before God, and we do not “prove” ourselves to Him; instead, God declares us righteous through our association with Christ, the One who died for our sins

So when we love others we prove to others we have been justified by faith in Jesus.

Think about it this way.

First remove justified as you understand it to mean.

Think about it this way.

I will prove to you that I am justified by God as a result of my faith in Jesus. As a result my faith will follow through.
I will love you as I love myself, even if you don't love me I will love you, I will go the extra mile with you.

EVEYONE of the workers for and cake takers skip right over SHOW ME YOUR FAITH in JAMES while disregarding and chunking under the table the writings of PAUL in ROMANS....funny thing....WE who believe faith dia grace salvation void of works always are willing to acknowledge and state belief for both James and Romans, Galatians...yet the workers for NEVER quote PAUL saying his conclusion was justified before GOD by faith void of works....

speaks volumes to their dishonesty with the scriptures.....nothing but JAMES for the workers for and cake takers

 

[JaimeMartinez26]

dc may you explain this for me?


hebrews 10:26
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

 

[BillG]

dc may you explain this for me?


hebrews 10:26
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

What do you think the knowledge of truth is? What is the sin that we wilfully commit after receiving the knowledge of truth?
If we reject the knowledge of the truth what sin are we committing that remains no more sacrifice for the sin we have wilfully committed?

 

[JaimeMartinez26]

What do you think the knowledge of truth is? What is the sin that we wilfully commit after receiving the knowledge of truth?
If we reject the knowledge of the truth what sin are we committing that remains no more sacrifice for the sin we have wilfully committed?

i think willful sin is, something you know to be a sin and do knowingly


also if something is an accident

like a woman runs in front of you with yoga pants and for .000.001seconds you look before you repent and turn around or close your eyes

you were sinning from when you looked to when you repented if in your mind you felt lust instead of disgust for her imodesty?


maybe smoking weed is willfull

but someone spiking your verners is accidental sin?

 

[JaimeMartinez26]

im posing questions haha

im not claiming to be the most mature in my understanding

Jesus took me from being a willful fool a couple years ago

 

[valiant]

How Jesus judges the churches in the book of Revelation:

Revelation 3New King James Version (NKJV)

The Dead Church

3 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,
‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God.[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]3 [/SUP]Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You[SUP][b][/SUP] have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. [SUP]5 [/SUP]He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

well its quite clear. Most of the members are nominal Christians who have a name but no reality. They are warned that they need to become real. For only he who overcomes (the true Christian) will be clothed in white garments. For them the future is certain. Far from being blotted out of the book of life (which is not possible), they will be confessed before the Father,