Cherubim

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Mar 5, 2013
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#41
If a thing is purposefully hidden, how can Wikipedia or anyone know which are the lies about it? The widipedia omits Maimonides' helpful clue that the wings are connected.

Ezek. 10:12-13 states specifically the merkabah had wheels (ophanim) which were called wheels (gilgal).

Ophanim are not angels, neither are cherubim or seraphim. Some angels are human beings, like in Gen.32:3.
This is where the Bible specifically says that angels that Ezekiel had seen were Cherubim type angels.

Ezekiel 10:20

[TABLE="class: table_bible"]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, align: left"]
Eze 10:20[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]This [is] the living creature that I saw under the God of Israel by the river of Chebar; and I knew that they [were] the cherubims.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Mar 5, 2013
102
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#42
If a thing is purposefully hidden, how can Wikipedia or anyone know which are the lies about it? The widipedia omits Maimonides' helpful clue that the wings are connected.

Ezek. 10:12-13 states specifically the merkabah had wheels (ophanim) which were called wheels (gilgal).

Ophanim are not angels, neither are cherubim or seraphim. Some angels are human beings, like in Gen.32:3.

see this is the problem, there is no such thing as an ophanim. there are cherub and seraph

its the fact that merkabah mysticism is lying about the wheels that is strange, because the Bible never calls them ophanim. the bible never says that the wheels are another type of angel instead it seems like it is saying that they are a type of vehicle. in this verse section.

Eze 10:9 KJV - And when I looked, behold the four wheels by the cherubims, one wheel by one cherub, and another wheel by another cherub: and the appearance of the wheels [was] as the colour of a beryl stone.
Eze 10:10 KJV - And [as for] their appearances, they four had one likeness, as if a wheel had been in the midst of a wheel.
Eze 10:11 KJV - When they went, they went upon their four sides; they turned not as they went, but to the place whither the head looked they followed it; they turned not as they went.


Eze 10:19 KJV - And the cherubims lifted up their wings, and mounted up from the earth in my sight: when they went out, the wheels also [were] beside them, and [every one] stood at the door of the east gate of the LORD'S house; and the glory of the God of Israel [was] over them above.
Eze 10:20 KJV - This [is] the living creature that I saw under the God of Israel by the river of Chebar; and I knew that they [were] the cherubims.


please read here.
 
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K

kenisyes

Guest
#43
This is where the Bible specifically says that angels that Ezekiel had seen were Cherubim type angels.

Ezekiel 10:20

[TABLE="class: table_bible"]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, align: left"]
Eze 10:20[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]This [is] the living creature that I saw under the God of Israel by the river of Chebar; and I knew that they [were] the cherubims. [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Maybe you will have to point out the word angel in this passage. I cna't see it.
 
Mar 5, 2013
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#44
Maybe you will have to point out the word angel in this passage. I cna't see it.
well you see angel actually doesn't appear in the old testament. only the new.
in the new they stopped calling them their types and just made a general word for heavenly being. Angel.

cherubim seraphim are both types of angels.

see if you just read ezekiel ch 1 it talks about heavenly beings that are creatures that are alive that Ezekiel is seeing.

see here;

Eze 1:1 KJV - Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth [month], in the fifth [day] of the month, as I [was] among the captives by the river of Chebar, [that] the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.
Eze 1:2 KJV - In the fifth [day] of the month, which [was] the fifth year of king Jehoiachin's captivity,
Eze 1:3 KJV - The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him.
Eze 1:4 KJV - And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness [was] about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.
Eze 1:5 KJV - Also out of the midst thereof [came] the likeness of four living creatures. And this [was] their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.
Eze 1:6 KJV - And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings.
Eze 1:7 KJV - And their feet [were] straight feet; and the sole of their feet [was] like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass.
Eze 1:8 KJV - And [they had] the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings.
Eze 1:9 KJV - Their wings [were] joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward.

Eze 1:10 KJV - As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.
Eze 1:11 KJV - Thus [were] their faces: and their wings [were] stretched upward; two [wings] of every one [were] joined one to another, and two covered their bodies.
Eze 1:12 KJV - And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; [and] they turned not when they went.
Eze 1:13 KJV - As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance [was] like burning coals of fire, [and] like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning.
Eze 1:14 KJV - And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning.
Eze 1:15 KJV - Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.
Eze 1:16 KJV - The appearance of the wheels and their work [was] like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work [was] as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.
Eze 1:17 KJV - When they went, they went upon their four sides: [and] they turned not when they went.
Eze 1:18 KJV - As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings [were] full of eyes round about them four.
Eze 1:19 KJV - And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.
Eze 1:20 KJV - Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither [was their] spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature [was] in the wheels.
Eze 1:21 KJV - When those went, [these] went; and when those stood, [these] stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature [was] in the wheels.
Eze 1:22 KJV - And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature [was] as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.
Eze 1:23 KJV - And under the firmament [were] their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies.
Eze 1:24 KJV - And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.
Eze 1:25 KJV - And there was a voice from the firmament that [was] over their heads, when they stood, [and] had let down their wings.
Eze 1:26 KJV - And above the firmament that [was] over their heads [was] the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne [was] the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.
Eze 1:27 KJV - And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.
Eze 1:28 KJV - As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so [was] the appearance of the brightness round about. This [was] the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw [it], I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#45
well you see angel actually doesn't appear in the old testament. only the new.
in the new they stopped calling them their types and just made a general word for heavenly being. Angel.

cherubim seraphim are both types of angels.

see if you just read ezekiel ch 1 it talks about heavenly beings that are creatures that are alive that Ezekiel is seeing.
The word "angel" appears in the English OT over 120 times. In Hebrew the word ma'alak is the usual equivalent. So angels are used a lot in the OT.

There are many things in heaven besides angels, just as there are many things on earth besides people. This includes the cherub, a type of the potential in man given over to God, seraph, or fire, which may be what we call ball lightning, ophan, or wheel bringing God's consciousness to earth, as well as thrones, dominations, principalities, powers, (Col. 1:16), living creatures (Rev. 4:7) and demons in the lower heavenlies. Since these are NT references, it proves they did not call everything angels.