Do you even have conversations with atheists?
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sure!
This is a textual speech from Jim Hovind. He is sitting next to a professor at Berkley discussing the big bang. Whether you believe he actually had this discussion or not is of little consequence because he gives references to science journals and uses physics and science to explain the problems.
English Sub-titled Text: Dr. Kent Hovind - Seminar 1
I was on an airplane years ago, flying from Dallas to San Francisco. And I happened to sit right next to a professor from Berkeley, U Cal Berkeley.
I don't know if you folks in Knoxville have ever heard of Berkeley or not, but Berkeley is not a Bible college.
So here I was on the airplane about that far away from this guy, and we started talking about creation and evolution.
Everybody I sit by on the airplane wants to talk about that, so I talk about it with them.
He said he believed in evolution. I said, "Yes, sir, I figured that; you have to if you teach at Berkeley."
I said, "Tell me, sir, if you believe in evolution, how did the world get here?"
He said, "Oh, it came from the big bang." I said, "Really? I'd like to hear about this!"
He said, "You are a science teacher and you have never heard of the big bang?"
I said, "Oh, yes sir, I've heard a lot about the big bang, and I believe in the big bang. But my big bang is a lot different than yours."
I said, "You tell me about your big bang, and then I'll tell you about my big bang."
And so, the professor took off on one of those answers that looked like it came straight from the textbook.
He said, "Well, Mr. Hovind, I believe about 18 to 20 billion years ago..." (that's a long time)
"...all the matter in the universe..." (that's a lot of stuff)
By the way, the word "universe" comes from two Latin words: "uni," which means single, and "verse" which means a spoken sentence.
Did you know we live in a single spoken sentence? God said, "Let there be...." That'll preach.
There is a sermon someplace right there, OK? And if your pastor can't find it, he's got no preaching in him at all!
"All the matter in the uni-verse was concentrated into one very dense, very hot region, that may have been much smaller than a period on this page." Say what?
Everything in the universe squished into a dot smaller than a period on a page?
Wow! That's one crowded dot. And heavy, too.
But that's not the first time this happened, boys and girls.
This textbook says: "Some day, after many billions of years, all the matter and energy will once again be packed into a small area no larger than the period at the end of this sentence. Then another big bang will occur."
"It happens every 80 to 100 billion years." Can you believe they cut down a tree to print that?
Where is Al Gore when you need him? That's what I want to know, yeah!
And why did you guys send Al Gore to Washington? You had him here, you know.
Now, this textbook author was brilliant. I could not believe how smart this guy was.
He said, "Boys and girls, nothing really means nothing." You have to be at least that smart to write a book.
He said, "Not only matter and energy would disappear, but also space and time.
However, physicists theorize that from this state of nothingness, the universe began in a gigantic explosion." What?
Yes, boys and girls, you see, one day, nothing exploded...
...And here we are! We can spend three days talking about the big bang theory.
They used to say that the thing that exploded was a few light-years in diameter. Then they said, "Oh no, it's only 275 million miles." And then they said, "It's only 71 million miles."
They keep getting it smaller, and now they are saying "nothing" exploded.
A couple years ago "Discover Magazine" here said, "Where did everything come from?"
"Boys and girls, the universe burst into something from absolutely nothing - zero, nada.
As it got bigger, it became filled with even more stuff that came from absolutely nowhere.
How is that possible? Ask Alan Guth.
His theory will explain everything." Wow, I've got to meet this Alan Guth guy.
Alan Guth said in "Scientific American," "The observable universe could have evolved from an infinitesimal region." (In the Hebrew, that's "a dot.")
He said, "It's then tempting to go one step further and speculate that the entire universe evolved from literally nothing." You see, boys and girls, we all came from a dot and the dot came from nothing.
And they call that science, and put it in a science journal?
I think I'd call that a fairy tale and put it in the garbage.
I said, "Professor, what happened to your dot?"
He said, "Hovind, 20 billion years ago all the dirt in the solar system was drawn into this little, bitty, tiny dot.
And it was spinning. It spun faster, and faster, and all of a sudden, it exploded: big bang!
And the pieces that flew off became galaxies, and sun, moon, stars, and here we are. People. Nothing but stardust.
I said, "Sir, can I ask you a couple of questions, please?"
He said, "Sure, what do you want to know?"
You know, we've got a three-hour flight sitting this far away from each other on the airplane.
I said, "Well sir, I've got a question. You said that 20 billion years ago, all the dirt got together for a big squish, a big spin, and a big bang. Where did all the dirt come from?" You know, who made matter? He said, "We don't know."
I said, "OK now sir, hold it. If I told you what I believe, that about 6,000 years ago God created the heaven and the earth, then you are going to say, 'and where did God come from?' And I have no idea."
But you said, 20 billion years ago there was a big bang; and you don't know where the dirt came from.
So basically, I believe: "In the beginning, God"; and you believe: "In the beginning, dirt."
Don't tell me my theory is religious, and your theory is scientific." No, no, no!
They are both religious. The news media tries to make it look like it is science versus religion.
It's not science versus religion; these are two religions.
Evolution and creation are both religious.
You have to believe in one or the other.
The difference is the evolution religion is tax supported.
That's the difference - one of many differences.
By the way, these two time lines are the same thing right here, behind me.
On the top time line, every inch represents 150 years.
Abe Lincoln was not even president one inch ago.
If I was to show you what 20 billion years looks like at the same scale as the top chart...
(...I have to have this chart on the bottom to be this scale...)
...This one would have to be 2,100 miles long.
That's from Pensacola to Portland, Oregon.
I don't want to carry a chart that big, so I made a new scale for the other one.
The professor said that he did not know where the matter came from.
So I said, "Sir, can you tell me where the laws came from?"
This universe is run by laws. Gravity, centrifugal force, inertia, Boyle's law, Cole's law (You can eat that with potato salad).
There are all kinds of laws in the universe. Where did the laws come from?
And by the way, why aren't the laws still evolving? Do you ever think about that?
Why is gravity always the same? Why don't you weigh 10 pounds more one day? (You say, "I do!"
Well, that's for a different reason.) Where did the energy come from? Who bought the gas to run this machine?
The professor said, "I don't know; we don't know any of those things." I said, "Can I ask you another question?"
He said, "Sure. What else would you like to know?"
Else? What do you mean, what else? you haven't told me anything yet.
I said, "Sir, does Berkeley have a merry-go-round?"
How many of you know what a merry-go-round is? You go round and round, until you throw up.
He said, "No, we don't have a merry-go-round at Berkeley."
I said, "You really ought to get one.
You could learn some good science on a merry-go-round."
If you put some fourth graders on there... Any fourth graders in here?
Last year or next year fourth graders. I know it's summertime here.
All right! I like fourth graders; I spent the best five years of my life in a fourth grade.
(That was before they diagnosed ADD. By the time my brother was in the fourth grade, we all knew what he was going to be when he finished high school - 32!)
Well, we are going to put some fourth graders on a merry-go-round and get the high school football team out there to get it spinning clockwise, as fast as it will possibly go.
Now if you have a digital watch, you may not know what clockwise means. ...I'll tell you later.
We are going to spin the merry-go-round clockwise, and the kids are going to go through four phases.
They start off in phase one, where they're screaming at the football players, "Come on, let's go faster! Faster! Can't you go any faster?"
You get up around 30 miles an hour, and the kids enter phase two, where they stop screaming.
They just quietly concentrate on trying to hang on for dear life.
When you get up around 60 miles an hour, the kids enter phase three, where they start screaming again, but now they are screaming, "Stop! Stop! Please slow down!" Don't stop though; keep going faster and faster.
When you get to 100 miles an hour, you enter phase four where the kids begin to fly off the merry-go-round. Now when this happens, you will notice a very interesting phenomenon of physics.
If the merry-go-round is going clockwise when the kid flies off, the kid will be spinning clockwise.
Until he encounters resistance, like a tree or a pole.
That's because of a law in physics known as the conservation of angular momentum.
See, if a spinning object breaks apart, the pieces that fly off are going to spin the same direction, because the outside is moving faster than the inside.
And we can talk all day about the conservation laws if you'd like, but the professor said, "Yes, I know about the conservation laws."
I said, "Well good, sir, then let me ask you a question. If the universe began as a spinning dot like you said, why do two planets spin backwards, and probably three?"
He got real quiet, a puzzeld look on his face. I said, "Sir, why do eight out of ninety-one known moons spin backwards?
Why do Jupiter, Saturn, and Neptune have moons going both directions at the same time?
Why is the Sun 98% hydrogen and helium, but the other planets are less than 1% hydrogen and helium?
And why are these nine planets so different from each other? If they all came from the big bang, why are they all so different?
Very different compositions!
And why do some whole galaxies spin backwards?"
CNN did an article, "Goofy galaxy spins in wrong direction."
I said, "Sir, why are these things going backwards?"
He said, "I don't know.
Why do you think they are going backwards?"
I was hoping he was going to ask that.
I said, "Sir, it's really simple.
You see, 'In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth,' and God did it that way on purpose, just to make the big bang theory look stupid."
This is a textual speech from Jim Hovind. He is sitting next to a professor at Berkley discussing the big bang. Whether you believe he actually had this discussion or not is of little consequence because he gives references to science journals and uses physics and science to explain the problems.
English Sub-titled Text: Dr. Kent Hovind - Seminar 1
I was on an airplane years ago, flying from Dallas to San Francisco. And I happened to sit right next to a professor from Berkeley, U Cal Berkeley.
I don't know if you folks in Knoxville have ever heard of Berkeley or not, but Berkeley is not a Bible college.
So here I was on the airplane about that far away from this guy, and we started talking about creation and evolution.
Everybody I sit by on the airplane wants to talk about that, so I talk about it with them.
He said he believed in evolution. I said, "Yes, sir, I figured that; you have to if you teach at Berkeley."
I said, "Tell me, sir, if you believe in evolution, how did the world get here?"
He said, "Oh, it came from the big bang." I said, "Really? I'd like to hear about this!"
He said, "You are a science teacher and you have never heard of the big bang?"
I said, "Oh, yes sir, I've heard a lot about the big bang, and I believe in the big bang. But my big bang is a lot different than yours."
I said, "You tell me about your big bang, and then I'll tell you about my big bang."
And so, the professor took off on one of those answers that looked like it came straight from the textbook.
He said, "Well, Mr. Hovind, I believe about 18 to 20 billion years ago..." (that's a long time)
"...all the matter in the universe..." (that's a lot of stuff)
By the way, the word "universe" comes from two Latin words: "uni," which means single, and "verse" which means a spoken sentence.
Did you know we live in a single spoken sentence? God said, "Let there be...." That'll preach.
There is a sermon someplace right there, OK? And if your pastor can't find it, he's got no preaching in him at all!
"All the matter in the uni-verse was concentrated into one very dense, very hot region, that may have been much smaller than a period on this page." Say what?
Everything in the universe squished into a dot smaller than a period on a page?
Wow! That's one crowded dot. And heavy, too.
But that's not the first time this happened, boys and girls.
This textbook says: "Some day, after many billions of years, all the matter and energy will once again be packed into a small area no larger than the period at the end of this sentence. Then another big bang will occur."
"It happens every 80 to 100 billion years." Can you believe they cut down a tree to print that?
Where is Al Gore when you need him? That's what I want to know, yeah!
And why did you guys send Al Gore to Washington? You had him here, you know.
Now, this textbook author was brilliant. I could not believe how smart this guy was.
He said, "Boys and girls, nothing really means nothing." You have to be at least that smart to write a book.
He said, "Not only matter and energy would disappear, but also space and time.
However, physicists theorize that from this state of nothingness, the universe began in a gigantic explosion." What?
Yes, boys and girls, you see, one day, nothing exploded...
...And here we are! We can spend three days talking about the big bang theory.
They used to say that the thing that exploded was a few light-years in diameter. Then they said, "Oh no, it's only 275 million miles." And then they said, "It's only 71 million miles."
They keep getting it smaller, and now they are saying "nothing" exploded.
A couple years ago "Discover Magazine" here said, "Where did everything come from?"
"Boys and girls, the universe burst into something from absolutely nothing - zero, nada.
As it got bigger, it became filled with even more stuff that came from absolutely nowhere.
How is that possible? Ask Alan Guth.
His theory will explain everything." Wow, I've got to meet this Alan Guth guy.
Alan Guth said in "Scientific American," "The observable universe could have evolved from an infinitesimal region." (In the Hebrew, that's "a dot.")
He said, "It's then tempting to go one step further and speculate that the entire universe evolved from literally nothing." You see, boys and girls, we all came from a dot and the dot came from nothing.
And they call that science, and put it in a science journal?
I think I'd call that a fairy tale and put it in the garbage.
I said, "Professor, what happened to your dot?"
He said, "Hovind, 20 billion years ago all the dirt in the solar system was drawn into this little, bitty, tiny dot.
And it was spinning. It spun faster, and faster, and all of a sudden, it exploded: big bang!
And the pieces that flew off became galaxies, and sun, moon, stars, and here we are. People. Nothing but stardust.
I said, "Sir, can I ask you a couple of questions, please?"
He said, "Sure, what do you want to know?"
You know, we've got a three-hour flight sitting this far away from each other on the airplane.
I said, "Well sir, I've got a question. You said that 20 billion years ago, all the dirt got together for a big squish, a big spin, and a big bang. Where did all the dirt come from?" You know, who made matter? He said, "We don't know."
I said, "OK now sir, hold it. If I told you what I believe, that about 6,000 years ago God created the heaven and the earth, then you are going to say, 'and where did God come from?' And I have no idea."
But you said, 20 billion years ago there was a big bang; and you don't know where the dirt came from.
So basically, I believe: "In the beginning, God"; and you believe: "In the beginning, dirt."
Don't tell me my theory is religious, and your theory is scientific." No, no, no!
They are both religious. The news media tries to make it look like it is science versus religion.
It's not science versus religion; these are two religions.
Evolution and creation are both religious.
You have to believe in one or the other.
The difference is the evolution religion is tax supported.
That's the difference - one of many differences.
By the way, these two time lines are the same thing right here, behind me.
On the top time line, every inch represents 150 years.
Abe Lincoln was not even president one inch ago.
If I was to show you what 20 billion years looks like at the same scale as the top chart...
(...I have to have this chart on the bottom to be this scale...)
...This one would have to be 2,100 miles long.
That's from Pensacola to Portland, Oregon.
I don't want to carry a chart that big, so I made a new scale for the other one.
The professor said that he did not know where the matter came from.
So I said, "Sir, can you tell me where the laws came from?"
This universe is run by laws. Gravity, centrifugal force, inertia, Boyle's law, Cole's law (You can eat that with potato salad).
There are all kinds of laws in the universe. Where did the laws come from?
And by the way, why aren't the laws still evolving? Do you ever think about that?
Why is gravity always the same? Why don't you weigh 10 pounds more one day? (You say, "I do!"
Well, that's for a different reason.) Where did the energy come from? Who bought the gas to run this machine?
The professor said, "I don't know; we don't know any of those things." I said, "Can I ask you another question?"
He said, "Sure. What else would you like to know?"
Else? What do you mean, what else? you haven't told me anything yet.
I said, "Sir, does Berkeley have a merry-go-round?"
How many of you know what a merry-go-round is? You go round and round, until you throw up.
He said, "No, we don't have a merry-go-round at Berkeley."
I said, "You really ought to get one.
You could learn some good science on a merry-go-round."
If you put some fourth graders on there... Any fourth graders in here?
Last year or next year fourth graders. I know it's summertime here.
All right! I like fourth graders; I spent the best five years of my life in a fourth grade.
(That was before they diagnosed ADD. By the time my brother was in the fourth grade, we all knew what he was going to be when he finished high school - 32!)
Well, we are going to put some fourth graders on a merry-go-round and get the high school football team out there to get it spinning clockwise, as fast as it will possibly go.
Now if you have a digital watch, you may not know what clockwise means. ...I'll tell you later.
We are going to spin the merry-go-round clockwise, and the kids are going to go through four phases.
They start off in phase one, where they're screaming at the football players, "Come on, let's go faster! Faster! Can't you go any faster?"
You get up around 30 miles an hour, and the kids enter phase two, where they stop screaming.
They just quietly concentrate on trying to hang on for dear life.
When you get up around 60 miles an hour, the kids enter phase three, where they start screaming again, but now they are screaming, "Stop! Stop! Please slow down!" Don't stop though; keep going faster and faster.
When you get to 100 miles an hour, you enter phase four where the kids begin to fly off the merry-go-round. Now when this happens, you will notice a very interesting phenomenon of physics.
If the merry-go-round is going clockwise when the kid flies off, the kid will be spinning clockwise.
Until he encounters resistance, like a tree or a pole.
That's because of a law in physics known as the conservation of angular momentum.
See, if a spinning object breaks apart, the pieces that fly off are going to spin the same direction, because the outside is moving faster than the inside.
And we can talk all day about the conservation laws if you'd like, but the professor said, "Yes, I know about the conservation laws."
I said, "Well good, sir, then let me ask you a question. If the universe began as a spinning dot like you said, why do two planets spin backwards, and probably three?"
He got real quiet, a puzzeld look on his face. I said, "Sir, why do eight out of ninety-one known moons spin backwards?
Why do Jupiter, Saturn, and Neptune have moons going both directions at the same time?
Why is the Sun 98% hydrogen and helium, but the other planets are less than 1% hydrogen and helium?
And why are these nine planets so different from each other? If they all came from the big bang, why are they all so different?
Very different compositions!
And why do some whole galaxies spin backwards?"
CNN did an article, "Goofy galaxy spins in wrong direction."
I said, "Sir, why are these things going backwards?"
He said, "I don't know.
Why do you think they are going backwards?"
I was hoping he was going to ask that.
I said, "Sir, it's really simple.
You see, 'In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth,' and God did it that way on purpose, just to make the big bang theory look stupid."
"when this happens, you will notice a very interesting phenomenon of physics.
If the merry-go-round is going clockwise when the kid flies off, the kid will be spinning clockwise.
Until he encounters resistance, like a tree or a pole.
That's because of a law in physics known as the conservation of angular momentum.
See, if a spinning object breaks apart, the pieces that fly off are going to spin the same direction, because the outside is moving faster than the inside."
just wanted to sift this out for anyone who didn't want to read his whole conversation regarding the big bang theory.
again anyone can actually watch this whole seminar and see the scale at
Dr. Dino - The Age Of The Earth - YouTube
If the merry-go-round is going clockwise when the kid flies off, the kid will be spinning clockwise.
Until he encounters resistance, like a tree or a pole.
That's because of a law in physics known as the conservation of angular momentum.
See, if a spinning object breaks apart, the pieces that fly off are going to spin the same direction, because the outside is moving faster than the inside."
just wanted to sift this out for anyone who didn't want to read his whole conversation regarding the big bang theory.
again anyone can actually watch this whole seminar and see the scale at
Dr. Dino - The Age Of The Earth - YouTube
Last edited:
There are a lot of lies in the larger post above, which make me not really want to tackle any of it (because why bother refuting known liars?). So thank you for sorting out the actual claim under discussion.
He's wrong about conservation of angular momentum and what it says. In actuality, if a kid flies off a clockwise merry-go-round, he may very well be spinning counter-clockwise. That's because conservation of angular momentum doesn't require that the direction of any particular part of the system will be the same as the rest of the system; it just requires that the total angular momentum of the system will stay the same.
So, if a much larger body B is spinning clockwise and a small piece P separates from it, under conservation of angular momentum the following things could happen:
1) P and B could both still be spinning clockwise at the same speed as before (or close to it), so that their total angular momentum is the same as before.
2) P could be spinning clockwise even faster, and B could be spinning more slowly then before, so that their total angular momentum is the same as before.
3) P could be spinning REALLY fast clockwise, and B could have stopped spinning or even be spinning counter-clockwise, so that their total angular momentum is the same as before.
4) B could be spinning clockwise even faster, and P could have slowed down, stopped, or even be spinning counter-clockwise, so that their total angular momentum is the same as before.
ALL of these obey conservation of angular momentum, and none of them are contrary to the laws of physics. In fact, if an object isn't spinning to begin with and breaks up explosively into many parts, we fully expect that some parts will spin in one direction and (as angular momentum conservation requires) other parts will spin in other directions.
Here's the actual mathematical and physical expression of the law:
Angular momentum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kent Hovind is a liar, and he is in jail for lying. I have never encountered a video or article from him that didn't include numerous factual errors and outright dishonesty at every level. He is not a scientist; he does not have a PhD from an accredited university or any training in any relevant discipline. I will respond to his specific arguments when they are sourced elsewhere or given with appropriate evidence, but I will not accept anything from him as a source with any credibility or charity.
He's wrong about conservation of angular momentum and what it says. In actuality, if a kid flies off a clockwise merry-go-round, he may very well be spinning counter-clockwise. That's because conservation of angular momentum doesn't require that the direction of any particular part of the system will be the same as the rest of the system; it just requires that the total angular momentum of the system will stay the same.
So, if a much larger body B is spinning clockwise and a small piece P separates from it, under conservation of angular momentum the following things could happen:
1) P and B could both still be spinning clockwise at the same speed as before (or close to it), so that their total angular momentum is the same as before.
2) P could be spinning clockwise even faster, and B could be spinning more slowly then before, so that their total angular momentum is the same as before.
3) P could be spinning REALLY fast clockwise, and B could have stopped spinning or even be spinning counter-clockwise, so that their total angular momentum is the same as before.
4) B could be spinning clockwise even faster, and P could have slowed down, stopped, or even be spinning counter-clockwise, so that their total angular momentum is the same as before.
ALL of these obey conservation of angular momentum, and none of them are contrary to the laws of physics. In fact, if an object isn't spinning to begin with and breaks up explosively into many parts, we fully expect that some parts will spin in one direction and (as angular momentum conservation requires) other parts will spin in other directions.
Here's the actual mathematical and physical expression of the law:
Angular momentum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kent Hovind is a liar, and he is in jail for lying. I have never encountered a video or article from him that didn't include numerous factual errors and outright dishonesty at every level. He is not a scientist; he does not have a PhD from an accredited university or any training in any relevant discipline. I will respond to his specific arguments when they are sourced elsewhere or given with appropriate evidence, but I will not accept anything from him as a source with any credibility or charity.
Here's another page explaining the same error:
CE260.1: Retrograde planets and the big bang
So, are you willing to accept that you are incorrect about the conservation of angular momentum and the Big Bang, so we can move on to your next claim?
CE260.1: Retrograde planets and the big bang
So, are you willing to accept that you are incorrect about the conservation of angular momentum and the Big Bang, so we can move on to your next claim?
I saw Kent Hovind give his talk at a local church, and noticed no shortage of errors. One of the things that he does horribly wrong in this speech that you've quoted here is to misquote the position of his opponents. He does this right off by saying that he "had a conversation with a professor at Berkeley", without naming a specific professor because not one professor had this conversation before his debates with them. He uses this Argument from Authority to establish a straw man to attack.
He uses many other citations, as you stated, but many of them are simply made up -- such as claim that the "first edition" of Darwin's book admitted that the eye's evolution was absurd (every edition says that... out of context). Can you find one of his "facts" in any of those sources mentioned above?
He uses many other citations, as you stated, but many of them are simply made up -- such as claim that the "first edition" of Darwin's book admitted that the eye's evolution was absurd (every edition says that... out of context). Can you find one of his "facts" in any of those sources mentioned above?
D
I try to avoid discussions with atheists as they are not open to Christianity. Instead they seek to attack Christianity by quoting people like Dawkins. Most atheists could care less about Christianity, but then you get the other kind of extremists who view Christianity as their foe. These types often get banned after a few weeks.
L
I have atheist's in my own family and, I know others as well,sometimes what I see lately really disappoints me,Christians that are behaving as if they can't possibly know God .They like click together and, target other Christians that they consider weak or less intelligent than themselves.Where is the love,I think it's lacking ,what a fine example we can be for unbelievers.