Is Paul speaking solely of his life as a Pharisee in Rom7:7-11

[PeterJens]

The argument is around our attitude to rules. Or more precisely expectations of behaviour. And the answer to this questions is simple, emotions.

Many regard emotions as something to ignore, a sea of trouble, fickle, up and down, which must follow facts.
Let me answer this issue with we are emotions wrapped up in perceptions or understanding of reality. Our whole lives are a construct in our brains, our souls. It is both the beauty of life and its fragility. Emotions are like the summary of where we are, they tell us what we have concluded or understood and how to take certain situations or things.

The next layer down we only know who we are because of how we react to life, situations and this is mainly reflected in our emotions. In discussing anything, you will find people are blind to certain ideas, because to face them it would undermine a whole series of ideas or emotions that bring stability to their lives.

I mention this because Jesus is promising something very precise.
Abundant life. Friends, family, everything you could imagine if you learn the rules. He is talking here appropriate behaviour, delving deep within and bringing out good things. Purity, joy, peace, patience, kindness. This comes from a heart where these emotional turmoil is resolved, healed, put right. It is actually impossible to walk as Jesus walked unless this happens.

Those who have never begun on this walk will say, oh but what about my lust, my anger, my desires for ..... They will all come out. This is precisely what some said to me. But this is the point, these are unresolved emotional issues, buried and ignored, like bombs waiting to go off, when Jesus can deal with them and bring context, life, acceptance.

So often this is why people stay in Romans 7 and never gain romans 8, because confessing, repentance, forgiveness are part of spiritual growth. Emotions matter and learning who you are in an open honest way is part of freedom. The lie is Jesus does not love you, and you are defined by your reactions rather than your choices.

 

[PeterJens]

Expectations

If who we are inside is defined by expectations outside, we are not becoming something but pretending to be.
So people rightly say commandments say we have failed, and condemn us, but when our hearts respond appropriately we say we are walking in the Spirit.

Some would argue facing emotional reality within is trying to change yourself through your own work. I would say it is about accepting yourself and learning who you truly are so you can become something better, a new creation.

New birth is partly Jesus switching the light on, but we can refuse to open our eyes and see who we are. Our choice is to see and act. As the apostle James writes

Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like.
James 1:22-24

We are all different, with different issues and experience. We need to work on the where we are, and the how to move forward.

It has taken me a long time to see I am a set of real responses to people and circumstance that define how I behave. As best I might talk about faith, until I change these fundamental responses, I am trapped in repeating the same cycles of behaviour. What helped me was to find fear of my Father stopped me understanding I was loved as I was.
Coming from a small family, I felt I could never share and aspire to be open, because I did not know how. Now we all find this odd constraints, but they form a fabric that limit us and how we grow in the Lord.

I am not saying we seek to change, but we need to see this is who we are. Once you see that, you find you can then choose to be something else, to feel and react differently, because you no longer write yourself off.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Expectations

If who we are inside is defined by expectations outside, we are not becoming something but pretending to be.
So people rightly say commandments say we have failed, and condemn us, but when our hearts respond appropriately we say we are walking in the Spirit.

Some would argue facing emotional reality within is trying to change yourself through your own work. I would say it is about accepting yourself and learning who you truly are so you can become something better, a new creation.

New birth is partly Jesus switching the light on, but we can refuse to open our eyes and see who we are. Our choice is to see and act. As the apostle James writes

So Jesus just partly does things, And someone who has humbled himself to the point of the cross. and repented can refuse to open their eyes?

This makes no sense. God does not partially do anything, and anyone who trusts God and truly repented has had their eyes opened,

no wonder you deny eternal security, You think you need to help God in your salvation, The cross was not sufficient.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

chapter 8 is where our goal should be, No one is arguing against this..

There is therefore no condemnation for those IN CHRIST..

thats the key to moving from romans 7 as an immature, baby Christian still learning what it looks like to be a child of God, to romans 8. where we start to mature and win victory over our fleshly desires, sin and satanic influences. [/B]

Romans 7:25-8 is the key for all Christians. Every moment of every day we look to no condemnation to deliver us from our body of death.

 

[james57]

Romans 7:25-8 is the key for all Christians. Every moment of every day we look to no condemnation to deliver us from our body of death.

And if we do that, according to Paul's Gospel it is the key to life in the Spirit as described in ch8

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And if we do that, according to Paul's Gospel it is the key to life in the Spirit as described in ch8

yes, this is how we move from being babes in Christ in Romans 7, to be mature in christ in romans 8

but even then, Satan and our flesh can move back to Romans 7 to try to take us out.. because a christian stuck in Romans 7 (using law) is a christian that is to focused on self ad how he performs, or how much of a failure he is, and not on others.

 

[PeterJens]

So Jesus just partly does things, And someone who has humbled himself to the point of the cross. and repented can refuse to open their eyes?

I have to say religion in terms of theology can blind people to the obvious. Pie in the sky when you die is a compromise people will buy into. Do the ceremonies, speak the words, listen to the group.

The parable of the seed and the sower is obvious. Even seed that has fully grown can be smothered by weeds and destroys the good crop.

There is eternal security in the cross. The problem is taking risks, letting go of control within and letting emotions and things that seem to overwhelm to just flow. They are just feelings, they will end, you can become something different, but you have to actually do it, it does not just happen.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have to say religion in terms of theology can blind people to the obvious. Pie in the sky when you die is a compromise people will buy into. Do the ceremonies, speak the words, listen to the group.

The parable of the seed and the sower is obvious. Even seed that has fully grown can be smothered by weeds and destroys the good crop.

There is eternal security in the cross. The problem is taking risks, letting go of control within and letting emotions and things that seem to overwhelm to just flow. They are just feelings, they will end, you can become something different, but you have to actually do it, it does not just happen.

When you have faith in someone who NEVER LETS YOU DOWN, and he continues day after day after day to be faithful to his word. He becomes that Abba Father paul spoke of.

You do not change back into the person you were before you humbled yourself. repented of all sin and the fact you were an enemy of God with no hope, You continue on, in faith. You may not grow to a super Christian who gets it all together, but you will never go back.

I don't know. All I can fathom is you have never experienced that love, that's why you can not fathom why someone would never return to the vomit they ere before they were created a new creature in Christ.

A dog returns to his vomit because he was always a dog, he was never changed. and he does not realise how bad his vomit is.

A dog who was made new in Christ and stopped being a dog. does not return to his vomit, because he knows what it is.

 

[james57]

I have to say religion in terms of theology can blind people to the obvious. Pie in the sky when you die is a compromise people will buy into. Do the ceremonies, speak the words, listen to the group.

The parable of the seed and the sower is obvious. Even seed that has fully grown can be smothered by weeds and destroys the good crop.

There is eternal security in the cross. The problem is taking risks, letting go of control within and letting emotions and things that seem to overwhelm to just flow. They are just feelings, they will end, you can become something different, but you have to actually do it, it does not just happen.

The parable of the sower is one of the most interesting- if I can put it that way of Jesus parables

Satan comes and snatches the word out of some peoples hearts that were planted there. How does he do that?

Others accept the message with joy but have no true root and give up when times get difficult.

The third group of people keep getting distracted from the work God has for them and so they never mature in the faith, but Jesus does not say they lose their salvation.

The last group are those who UNDERSTAND the message and PERSEVERE, these are the ones who produce a bountiful crop