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Leviticus 10:8-11 8 And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying, 9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: 10 And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; 11 And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.
Hebrews 4:14-15 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Every day that Jesus lived he lived as our high Priest. Even with the calling of the 70 that he sent out to minister to the people, Jesus was performing his duties as high priest. When Jesus turned water into wine, he met a need. Jesus always performed miracles to meet needs....... not to fulfill the lust of somebody wanting to get drunk. Jesus even quit feeding the multitudes because they were only coming to fill their fleshly appetites. To say our High Priest was allowed to drink when the shadow of things to come was not allowed to seems highly inappropriate.
The preservation of grape juice goes back to ancient times. Here is a link:
http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/3.html
Look down the page to PART II: THE PRESERVATION OF GRAPE JUICE. This can be confirmed.
Because zone quoted this Scripture to prove her point:
Matthew 11:18-19 18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. 19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
In these verses Jesus is only telling the people what the Pharisees are saying about him and John the Baptist. These are only accusations. There is nothing true in their content. Therefore, this verse cannot and should not be used as a reference for Jesus drinking fermented wine. Bible teachers should know better.
Matthew 11:18-19 18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. 19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
In these verses Jesus is only telling the people what the Pharisees are saying about him and John the Baptist. These are only accusations. There is nothing true in their content. Therefore, this verse cannot and should not be used as a reference for Jesus drinking fermented wine. Bible teachers should know better.
oh brother.
Luke 1
Birth of John the Baptist Foretold
5In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zechariah,a of the division of Abijah. And he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. 6And they were both righteous before God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and statutes of the Lord. 7But they had no child, because Elizabeth was barren, and both were advanced in years.
8Now while he was serving as priest before God when his division was on duty, 9according to the custom of the priesthood, he was chosen by lot to enter the temple of the Lord and burn incense. 10And the whole multitude of the people were praying outside at the hour of incense. 11And there appeared to him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12And Zechariah was troubled when he saw him, and fear fell upon him. 13But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zechariah, for your prayer has been heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John. 14And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth, 15for he will be great before the Lord. And he must not drink wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. 16And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God, 17and he will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared.”
~
Matthew 11
Messengers from John the Baptist
1When Jesus had finished instructing his twelve disciples, he went on from there to teach and preach in their cities.
2Now when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples 3and said to him, “Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?” 4And Jesus answered them, “Go and tell John what you hear and see: 5the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepersa are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. 6And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.”
7As they went away, Jesus began to speak to the crowds concerning John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8What then did you go out to see? A manb dressed in soft clothing? Behold, those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses. 9What then did you go out to see? A prophet?c Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. 10This is he of whom it is written,
“‘Behold, I send my messenger before your face,
who will prepare your way before you.’
11Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence,d and the violent take it by force. 13For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, 14and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come. 15He who has ears to hear,e let him hear.
16“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their playmates,
17 “‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance;
we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.’
18For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ 19The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is justified by her deeds.”f
~
Shall drink neither wine - The kind of wine commonly used in Judea was a light wine, often not stronger than cider in this country. It was the common drink of all classes of the people. See the notes at John 2:11. The use of wine was forbidden only to the Nazarite, Numbers 6:3. It was because John sustained this character that he abstained from the use of wine.
Barnes
Luke 1
Birth of John the Baptist Foretold
5In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zechariah,a of the division of Abijah. And he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. 6And they were both righteous before God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and statutes of the Lord. 7But they had no child, because Elizabeth was barren, and both were advanced in years.
8Now while he was serving as priest before God when his division was on duty, 9according to the custom of the priesthood, he was chosen by lot to enter the temple of the Lord and burn incense. 10And the whole multitude of the people were praying outside at the hour of incense. 11And there appeared to him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12And Zechariah was troubled when he saw him, and fear fell upon him. 13But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zechariah, for your prayer has been heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John. 14And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth, 15for he will be great before the Lord. And he must not drink wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. 16And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God, 17and he will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared.”
~
Matthew 11
Messengers from John the Baptist
1When Jesus had finished instructing his twelve disciples, he went on from there to teach and preach in their cities.
2Now when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples 3and said to him, “Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?” 4And Jesus answered them, “Go and tell John what you hear and see: 5the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepersa are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. 6And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.”
7As they went away, Jesus began to speak to the crowds concerning John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8What then did you go out to see? A manb dressed in soft clothing? Behold, those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses. 9What then did you go out to see? A prophet?c Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. 10This is he of whom it is written,
“‘Behold, I send my messenger before your face,
who will prepare your way before you.’
11Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence,d and the violent take it by force. 13For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, 14and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come. 15He who has ears to hear,e let him hear.
16“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their playmates,
17 “‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance;
we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.’
18For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ 19The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is justified by her deeds.”f
~
Shall drink neither wine - The kind of wine commonly used in Judea was a light wine, often not stronger than cider in this country. It was the common drink of all classes of the people. See the notes at John 2:11. The use of wine was forbidden only to the Nazarite, Numbers 6:3. It was because John sustained this character that he abstained from the use of wine.
Barnes
"Did Jesus drink wine?
Did Jesus drink wine or just some quality GRAPE JUICE? Does the Bible say Christians should not drink at all? Is it true that alcohol (wine) and believers don't mix? Some churches teach such a belief.
Some churches teach that since Jesus DID drink wine that we should as well. Is this true? Did Jesus and his disciples, at his last Passover, drink JUICE?
A survey of the many reference materials this author could locate AGREED that the terms for "wine" in the original languages - in most cases - make obvious reference to fermented (alcoholic) grape juice. In the instances where such blunt indication is absent, there appears no indication that it could be otherwise. The stated effects throughout the Bible make it impossible to logically and rationally interpret it as being anything but alcoholic and capable of intoxication. As one author put it,
"Intemperance was common enough, and the Bible contains a number of unfavorable references to excessive drinking. Wine is praised; it rejoices God and men (Judges 9:13); it gladdens the heart of men (Psalms 104:15); it gladdens life (Exodus 10:19); it makes the heart exult (Zechariah 10:7); it cheers the spirits of the depressed (Proverbs 31:6) . . . The attitude of Jesus toward wine, like that of the entire Bible, is neutral, praising its use and finding fault in its intemperate use. Certainly the production of wine at Cana (John 2:1-11) scarcely supports any belief that Jesus or the primitive Church regarded the use of wine as sinful in itself." (Dictionary of the Bible, John L. McKenzie, S.J.,1965 ).
Did Jesus drink GRAPE JUICE?
Many churches believe and avidly teach that to drink biblical wine is really to have unfermented grape juice. The problem, however, is that there is no possible way for this position to appear at all feasible. First, Noah could not have gotten drunk on grape juice (Genesis 9:21), nor could have Lot (Genesis 19:32-35). "But," some will claim, "that was Old Testament wine which was obviously alcoholic. The New Testament is clear in its condemnation of the use of alcoholic beverages and therefore references to it are really to grape juice only."
Even a quick look at the New Testament exposes the error of this argument. In John 2:11 Jesus' miracle at Cana is recounted. Jewish custom required they drink REAL wine at a wedding. It was a joyful occasion with probably several hundred people attending, so Jesus helped when the alcohol became prematurely exhausted. The product HAD to be fermented, for if it had been mere grape juice, there would have been complaints rather than superb compliments. "A feast is made for laughter, and wine makes merry" says Ecclesiastes 10:19 - which requires a fermented product!...."
etc etc etc
Did Jesus drink wine? < click source.
what is the SIN?
drunkenness.
HELLO?????
Did Jesus drink wine or just some quality GRAPE JUICE? Does the Bible say Christians should not drink at all? Is it true that alcohol (wine) and believers don't mix? Some churches teach such a belief.
Some churches teach that since Jesus DID drink wine that we should as well. Is this true? Did Jesus and his disciples, at his last Passover, drink JUICE?
A survey of the many reference materials this author could locate AGREED that the terms for "wine" in the original languages - in most cases - make obvious reference to fermented (alcoholic) grape juice. In the instances where such blunt indication is absent, there appears no indication that it could be otherwise. The stated effects throughout the Bible make it impossible to logically and rationally interpret it as being anything but alcoholic and capable of intoxication. As one author put it,
"Intemperance was common enough, and the Bible contains a number of unfavorable references to excessive drinking. Wine is praised; it rejoices God and men (Judges 9:13); it gladdens the heart of men (Psalms 104:15); it gladdens life (Exodus 10:19); it makes the heart exult (Zechariah 10:7); it cheers the spirits of the depressed (Proverbs 31:6) . . . The attitude of Jesus toward wine, like that of the entire Bible, is neutral, praising its use and finding fault in its intemperate use. Certainly the production of wine at Cana (John 2:1-11) scarcely supports any belief that Jesus or the primitive Church regarded the use of wine as sinful in itself." (Dictionary of the Bible, John L. McKenzie, S.J.,1965 ).
Did Jesus drink GRAPE JUICE?
Many churches believe and avidly teach that to drink biblical wine is really to have unfermented grape juice. The problem, however, is that there is no possible way for this position to appear at all feasible. First, Noah could not have gotten drunk on grape juice (Genesis 9:21), nor could have Lot (Genesis 19:32-35). "But," some will claim, "that was Old Testament wine which was obviously alcoholic. The New Testament is clear in its condemnation of the use of alcoholic beverages and therefore references to it are really to grape juice only."
Even a quick look at the New Testament exposes the error of this argument. In John 2:11 Jesus' miracle at Cana is recounted. Jewish custom required they drink REAL wine at a wedding. It was a joyful occasion with probably several hundred people attending, so Jesus helped when the alcohol became prematurely exhausted. The product HAD to be fermented, for if it had been mere grape juice, there would have been complaints rather than superb compliments. "A feast is made for laughter, and wine makes merry" says Ecclesiastes 10:19 - which requires a fermented product!...."
etc etc etc
Did Jesus drink wine? < click source.
what is the SIN?
drunkenness.
HELLO?????
Leviticus 10:8-11 8 And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying, 9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: 10 And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; 11 And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.
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Matthew 11
Messengers from John the Baptist
1When Jesus had finished instructing his twelve disciples, he went on from there to teach and preach in their cities.
2Now when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples 3and said to him, “Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?” 4And Jesus answered them, “Go and tell John what you hear and see: 5the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepersa are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. 6And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.”
7As they went away, Jesus began to speak to the crowds concerning John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8What then did you go out to see? A manb dressed in soft clothing? Behold, those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses. 9What then did you go out to see? A prophet?c Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. 10This is he of whom it is written,
“‘Behold, I send my messenger before your face,
who will prepare your way before you.’
11Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence,d and the violent take it by force. 13For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, 14and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come. 15He who has ears to hear,e let him hear.
16“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their playmates,
17 “‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance;
we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.’
18For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ 19The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is justified by her deeds.”
~
Did Jesus EVER SIN?
if ppl want to make WINE grape juice....
go for it!
Messengers from John the Baptist
1When Jesus had finished instructing his twelve disciples, he went on from there to teach and preach in their cities.
2Now when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples 3and said to him, “Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?” 4And Jesus answered them, “Go and tell John what you hear and see: 5the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepersa are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. 6And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.”
7As they went away, Jesus began to speak to the crowds concerning John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8What then did you go out to see? A manb dressed in soft clothing? Behold, those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses. 9What then did you go out to see? A prophet?c Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. 10This is he of whom it is written,
“‘Behold, I send my messenger before your face,
who will prepare your way before you.’
11Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence,d and the violent take it by force. 13For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, 14and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come. 15He who has ears to hear,e let him hear.
16“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their playmates,
17 “‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance;
we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.’
18For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ 19The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is justified by her deeds.”
~
Did Jesus EVER SIN?
if ppl want to make WINE grape juice....
go for it!
ya that makes sense.It's strange that John the Baptist couldn't drink it in your opinion, yet Jesus could.
John 5:36 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
Jesus is the great high priest. A far better witness than a Nazarite. As high priest, Jesus couldn't drink fermented wine according to the law.
John 5:36 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
Jesus is the great high priest. A far better witness than a Nazarite. As high priest, Jesus couldn't drink fermented wine according to the law.
K
In support of this, here are some Scriptures from a post I made yesterday in a related thread, that do not appear to have been mentioned yet in this thread:
The Hebrew word for "wine", yayin, is derived from a word that means to "effervesce". Compare any of the following: wine is linked with strong drink repeatedly, because they both produce drunkenness: Prov. 20:1, 31:6; Isaiah 5:11; 5:22; 24:9; 28:7; 29:9; 56:12; Micah 2:11.
The Hebrew word for "wine", yayin, is derived from a word that means to "effervesce". Compare any of the following: wine is linked with strong drink repeatedly, because they both produce drunkenness: Prov. 20:1, 31:6; Isaiah 5:11; 5:22; 24:9; 28:7; 29:9; 56:12; Micah 2:11.
Probably been stated, but sources of clean water were scarce.
Diseases spread through germs carried in tainted water were rampant.
Jesus wasn't drinking wine to get drunk. Only those who 'tarried long at the wine till' were.
To find a new well was a big event.
The whole community got excited.
Brings to mind what Jesus shouted on the last day of the feast:
John 7:37-38 (KJV)
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Water refreshes the body and rehydrates the brain. So you are able to do work.
Alcohol clouds the mind and deadens the senses.
Note the metaphor.
Diseases spread through germs carried in tainted water were rampant.
Jesus wasn't drinking wine to get drunk. Only those who 'tarried long at the wine till' were.
To find a new well was a big event.
The whole community got excited.
Brings to mind what Jesus shouted on the last day of the feast:
John 7:37-38 (KJV)
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Water refreshes the body and rehydrates the brain. So you are able to do work.
Alcohol clouds the mind and deadens the senses.
Note the metaphor.