Martin Luther - There's Something About Mary

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Jan 17, 2013
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Protestants today balk at the idea of Mary's perpetual virginity, that Jesus had no siblings, and that she remained a virgin all her life. Or even that she was anything but just another woman, deserving of no expressed special reverence. Though the father of their Protestant faith, Martin Luther, declared Mary's perpetual virginity, and also that she is worthy of the highest praise after God, and should be extraordinarily revered. Martin Luther also taught that Mary is truly the Mother of God.

Martin Luther on Mary's Perpetual Virginity:

"Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb . . . This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that."

- Martin Luther {Sermons on John, chaps. 1-4 (1539)}


Martin Luther commenting on the false teachings arising in Protestantism in his lifetime concerning the denial of Mary's perpetual virginity, teachings which Protestants erroneously attribute to Luther, which he himself calls lies.
Luther also refers to Mary here as the mother of God.

"A new lie about me is being circulated. I am supposed to have preached and written that Mary, the mother of God, was not a virgin either before or after the birth of Christ. . ."
- Martin Luther {That Jesus Christ was Born a Jew (1523)}


Martin Luther says that scripture does not say or indicate that Mary later lost her virginity, as most Protestants today mistakenly contend . .

"When Matthew [1:25] says that Joseph did not know Mary carnally until she had brought forth her son, it does not follow that he knew her subsequently; on the contrary, it means that he never did know her . . . This babble . . . is without justification . . . he has neither noticed nor paid any attention to either Scripture or the common idiom."
- Martin Luther {That Jesus Christ was Born a Jew (1523)}


Jesus had no siblings...

"Christ . . . was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him . . . I am inclined to agree with those who declare that 'brothers' really mean 'cousins' here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers."
- Martin Luther {Sermons on John, chaps. 1-4 (1539)}


MARY, THE MOTHER OF GOD...


"It is the consolation and the superabundant goodness of GOD, that man is able to exult in such a treasure. Mary is his true Mother."
- Martin Luther (Sermon, Christmas, 1522)


He again declares Mary the Mother of God...

". . . she is rightly called not only the mother of the man, but also the Mother of God. . . . it is certain that Mary is the Mother of the real and true God."
- Martin Luther {Sermon on John 14. 16}


Mary, the Mother of God, and mother of all Christians...

"Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees . . . If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother."
- Martin Luther (Sermon, Christmas, 1529)


Mary is free from the stain of original sin.

"It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin"
- Martin Luther (Sermon: "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," 1527)

"She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin- something exceedingly great. For God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil."
- Martin Luther (Personal {"Little"} Prayer Book, 1522)


Concerning the veneration of Mary...

"The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart."
- Martin Luther (Sermon, September 1, 1522)

"She is the highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ . . . She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures."
- Martin Luther (Sermon, Christmas, 1531)

"One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God's grace . . . Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ . . . Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God."
- Martin Luther (Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521)



Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee,
Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus!

Glory to God in the highest!
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#2
We tend to balk at the idea that she was just as sinless as Jesus.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#3
Mary was not a perpetual virgin. Jesus had brothers by blood. James the brother of Jesus. Look it up.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#5
Luke 18
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Then came to him his mother and his brethren, and could not come at him for the press.

20 And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#6
What is up with the never ending Mary fixation?
Maynard do you really think this is right?
What good can all this do for me?

The bible teaches all of us to esteem others more than ourselves.
So is that not enuf?
 
Jan 17, 2013
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#8
Mary was not a perpetual virgin. Jesus had brothers by blood. James the brother of Jesus. Look it up.
The father of your faith, Martin Luther, says that you are mistaken.

"Christ . . . was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him . . . I am inclined to agree with those who declare that 'brothers' really mean 'cousins' here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers."
- Martin Luther {Sermons on John, chaps. 1-4 (1539)}



Lot, for example, is called Abraham’s "brother" (Gen. 14:14), even though, being the son of Haran, Abraham’s brother (Gen. 11:26–28), he was actually Abraham’s nephew. Similarly, Jacob is called the "brother" of his uncle Laban (Gen. 29:15). Kish and Eleazar were the sons of Mahli. Kish had sons of his own, but Eleazar had no sons, only daughters, who married their "brethren," the sons of Kish. These "brethren" were really their cousins (1 Chr. 23:21–22).

The terms "brothers," "brother," and "sister" did not refer only to close relatives. Sometimes they meant kinsmen (Deut. 23:7; Neh. 5:7; Jer. 34:9), as in the reference to the forty-two "brethren" of King Azariah (2 Kgs. 10:13–14).

And as Martin Luther would also contend...
Because neither Hebrew nor Aramaic (the language spoken by Christ and his disciples) had a special word meaning "cousin," speakers of those languages could use either the word for "brother" or a circumlocution, such as "the son of my uncle." But circumlocutions are clumsy, so the Jews often used "brother."
The writers of the New Testament were brought up using the Aramaic equivalent of "brothers" to mean both cousins and sons of the same father—plus other relatives and even non-relatives. When they wrote in Greek, they did the same thing the translators of the Septuagint did. (The Septuagint was the Greek version of the Hebrew Bible; it was translated by Hellenistic Jews a century or two before Christ’s birth and was the version of the Bible from which most of the Old Testament quotations found in the New Testament are taken.)
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#9
Yeah the cool thing about protestants is that we read this info and just admit he wasn't right on everything. Unlike certain "mother churches" who declare everything their "leader" says as divine infallible truth.
 
Jan 17, 2013
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Yeah the cool thing about protestants is that we read this info and just admit he wasn't right on everything. Unlike certain "mother churches" who declare everything their "leader" says as divine infallible truth.
Yeah, that's real "cool". To each their own truth, right? Purely subjective nonsense is all that is, and leads to an utter breakdown of truth altogether. You are only admitting that he was wrong and that you are too, so it logically follows. Martin Luther himself recognized this problem when he saw the many denominations sprouting up in his lifetime, all creating doctrine of their own. Each individual interpreting scripture on their own (this forum a fine example), a practice which goes entirely against scripture itself and the teachings of our Lord.

This short video gives an interesting and intelligent perspective on the problem of authority (the lack thereof) in Protestantism, and the dangers inherent in it.
[video=youtube_share;RWYwBDqFsuE]http://youtu.be/RWYwBDqFsuE[/video]
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#11
Martin Luther himself recognized this problem when he saw the many denominations sprouting up in his lifetime, all creating doctrine of their own. \]
Oh please.
As if there is absolute unity within the RC church.
Most of the American flock in the RC church scoffs at the Vatican's stance on birth control and a sizeable part is pro-choice.

You all are as just as divided, if not more.
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#12
the context for a lot of these quotations would be helpful...with many of them it isn't entirely clear what luther actually meant...or if he was even endorsing a doctrine or just stating what other people believe...

i will openly say that luther was simply -wrong- about the perpetual virginity of mary...basically he believed it because he had been taught to believe it and he hadn't thought of a good reason to stop believing it...

nowdays we have discovered several good reasons not to believe in the perpetual virginity of mary...not least of which is the fact that the doctrine is both blasphemous and insulting to mary...
 

JimJimmers

Senior Member
Apr 26, 2012
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#13
You are only admitting that he was wrong and that you are too, so it logically follows.

You'll have to explain that one. If Luther is wrong, then we (those that say Mary had children) are right. If Luther was right, then we are wrong. How can your statement possibly be true?
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#15
This short video gives an interesting and intelligent perspective on the problem of authority (the lack thereof) in Protestantism, and the dangers inherent in it.
The last ones that should be criticizing protestants on lack of proper use of the exercise of authority is the Roman Catholic church. Due to your lack of taking authority many innocent children were abused for decades because your "authority" swept it under the rug.

And this isn't some error of 500 years ago.
It's the authority within the last generation and a half.

I would never want to come under such "authority".
 
Jan 17, 2013
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#16
The last ones that should be criticizing protestants on lack of proper use of the exercise of authority is the Roman Catholic church. Due to your lack of taking authority many innocent children were abused for decades because your "authority" swept it under the rug.

And this isn't some error of 500 years ago.
It's the authority within the last generation and a half.

I would never want to come under such "authority".
It is very foolish for people in glass houses to cast stones.

There's thousands of stories we can find concerning protestant pastors and sex abuse, too many to count, and by far more than Catholic clergy. Here's a few from just the past few weeks.


Trial of pastor facing sex charge begins

HARLAN, Ky. (AP) — The trial is beginning for an eastern Kentucky pastor facing counts of rape and other charges involving a girl younger than 14.

Caraway is the former pastor of Loyall Church of God in Harlan County. He is charged with rape, sodomy, sex abuse, unlawful transaction with a minor and use of an electronic communications system to procure a minor for a sexual offense.

FBI arrests pastor on child sex abuse charges in eastern New Orleans

New Orleans - The FBI has arrested a former Missouri pastor wanted on child sexual abuse charges in New Orleans. George Spencer, 48, was arrested Friday on several charges of forcible sodomy of a child and child molestation by the FBI New Orleans Violent Task Force.

Spencer worked as a pastor at Greater Works CME Church in Kansas City.

FBI arrests former pastor on child sex abuse charges in eastern New Orleans | NOLA.com


Pastor facing child sex abuse charges has criminal background

MARSHALL COUNTY, AL (WAFF) - A Marshall County pastor now facing child sex abuse charges in Texas spent nearly a decade in the Texas state prison system before he was hired to pastor a church in Albertville.
41-year-old Mark Allen Green is jailed on a half million dollar bond in Texas and faces sexual abuse and aggravated sexual abuse of a child charges in Ellis and Navarro counties involving two victims under the age of 18.

Pastor facing child sex abuse charges has criminal background - Action News 5 - Memphis, Tennessee


Pastor Pleads Guilty to Unlawful Sexual Contact with a Minor

GALLIPOLIS, Ohio (WSAZ) -- Standing in a courtroom before members of his congregation, a former pastor was sentenced to 15 years in prison for multiple counts of unlawful sexual conduct with a minor.
Young was the pastor at Simpson United Methodist Church in Rio Grande, Ohio.

Pastor Pleads Guilty to Unlawful Sexual Contact with a Minor

Elmhurst Pastor Charged With Sexual Abuse Of Teen Girl

Chicago - Former associate pastor Darin Evans, 41, is being held on $300,000 bond for allegedly sexually assaulting a teenage girl over a period of seven years. Court documents show Evans started the relationship with the girl when she was 16, and the assaults happened in public places, including cemeteries and on church-sponsored youth retreats.

Midday News Links: Former Elmhurst Pastor Charged With Sexual Abuse Of Teen Girl: Chicagoist

Franklin County pastor indicted on sexual torture, child abuse charges

FRANKLIN COUNTY, Alabama -- A former Franklin County pastor has been charged with sexual torture and abuse.
The victim was an 8-year-old girl and that the abuse went on for nearly a year inside Hovater's home in Spruce Pine. The victim's family attended Hovater's church.

Former Isanti County pastor sentenced for criminal sexual conduct

The pain and anger of being used and abused at such an intimate and personal level through spiritual means have been quite overwhelming to try to deal with emotionally.” Those words were read by Isanti County Victim Services advocate Cheryl Terhaar during the June 5 sentencing for former pastor Ryan Jay Muehlhauser.
Former Isanti County pastor sentenced for criminal sexual conduct | The Isanti County NewsThe Isanti County News


Local pastor jailed on sex abuse charges

CHARLESTON, W.Va. - A local pastor is behind bars for allegedly sexually abusing a young female family member over a period of several years.
Jonnie Franklin Winnell, 59, of Gypsum Lane in Elkview, is being held at South Central Regional Jail.
Winnell was charged with three counts of sexual abuse by a parent, guardian and/or a custodian.
Winnell is a pastor at United Gospel Mission on Charleston's West Side.

Local pastor jailed on sex abuse charges� - Cops and Courts -




And that is a VERY small sample of those having occurred in recent weeks. There are countless stories of Protestant pastors sexually abusing children. Too many to count even this month.
 
Jan 17, 2013
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#17
You'll have to explain that one. If Luther is wrong, then we (those that say Mary had children) are right. If Luther was right, then we are wrong. How can your statement possibly be true?
It is simple. If you say that Martin Luther is in err then it follows that there is a fundamental miscarriage of truth at the very heart of protestantism. You, following his doctrines and his practice of self-interpretation of scripture are also in err, naturally. You then take of his teaching what appeals to you and disregard what does not. This follows in each of the more than 30,000 Protestant denominations. Your doctrine is based upon an error in truth to begin with, as several of you have already admitted, and so it certainly cannot follow that you possess the truth.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#18
Yeah, that's real "cool". To each their own truth, right? Purely subjective nonsense is all that is, and leads to an utter breakdown of truth altogether. You are only admitting that he was wrong and that you are too, so it logically follows. Martin Luther himself recognized this problem when he saw the many denominations sprouting up in his lifetime, all creating doctrine of their own. Each individual interpreting scripture on their own (this forum a fine example), a practice which goes entirely against scripture itself and the teachings of our Lord.

This short video gives an interesting and intelligent perspective on the problem of authority (the lack thereof) in Protestantism, and the dangers inherent in it.
Nearly every cult ,christian and non christian, has a strong-man figure at the center holding the group in line so thought is kept in check; Rome is no exception as she trembles at the freedom afforded to those who are free in Christ.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#19
Maynard no man possesses the truth. And that includes you.
At best we can know some of it through a glass darkly.
is this catholic/protestant fencing a hobby?
 
May 15, 2013
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#20
Matthew 12:48He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?”