Part - 3 Can Jesus Christ Second Return Really Happen at ANY Moment?

Jennyyyyy · Feb 4, 2013

I don't think Christ would return at any moment's notice.
It wouldn't make sense.
Why would he warns us of all of the events that MUST happen, and then come back before they had been fulfilled. He would not do that, because He means what He says. Come on now.

I think the tribulation period is God's way of allowing more people to be saved, through this coming hard time, people will begin to make their choice: life? or spiritual death. with the onset of the antichrist and all of his followers, people will wake up, and will know what's happening around them. They will follow either path they so choose.

I personally have no idea where we (humanity) are right now in terms of the tribulation, but my best guess is pre. But getting closer everyday. Based on current events.

Anyway, that's my take.

GRA · Feb 4, 2013

Trax said:

"No. I do not need to define my idea of trumpet. I asked a question, and clearly defined 'trumpet' within the scope of the question."

Since you seem to be having a severe problem understanding the significance and meaning of the placing of '( Revelation 11:15 )' directly after the token phrase 'seventh trumpet' - let me rephrase the question...

"Do you believe that the particular occasion of the execution of the performance of the operation of the implementation of the process commonly known as 'the rapture' will happen coincidentally - with regard to the passage of time - with what is referred to and understood in the Bible as the 'last trump' - and that this is the same thing as that which is known and understood in the Bible as the 'seventh trumpet' - as recorded and defined in the 15th verse of the 11th chapter of the book of Revelation in the Bible?"

( It really is a simple question... )

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Eccl12and13 · Feb 4, 2013

Although God's words are very clear as to which trumpet it will be that sounds announcing Christ's arrival, let's take the blowing of trumpets out of the equation and read of another sign by which we will know Jesus has returned.

Acts 1
[10] And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
[11] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

God's word tells us the SAME way Jesus departed is the SAME way He will return. And from where did Jesus depart?

Acts 1
[12] Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

From the Mount of Olives. Now let's confirm this;

Zech.14
[1] Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
[2] For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
[3] Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
[4] And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Now let's read who will accompany the Lord when He returns;

[5] And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

And who are these saints coming back to the earth with Christ? Those that were changed in the twinkling of an eye........at the LAST trump!

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Trax · Feb 6, 2013

Jennyyyyy said:

Jesus was talking to Jews. His disciples wanted to know about when He was going to restore
the kingdom and the end. Its all about the Jews and Israel.

Trax · Feb 6, 2013

GRA said:

Exo 19:9-20 And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD. (10) And the LORD said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow, and let them wash their clothes, (11) And be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai. (12) And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death: (13) There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount. (14) And Moses went down from the mount unto the people, and sanctified the people; and they washed their clothes. (15) And he said unto the people, Be ready against the third day: come not at your wives. (16) And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled. (17) And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount. (18) And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly. (19) And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice. (20) And the LORD came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the LORD called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up.

Now, just put it together. Also, a side note of information. The book of Rev. was given long after Paul wrote
about the last trump. He couldn't be refering to any trumpets in Rev, but to something else in the Bible. When
John was given the prophecy of the trumpets of judgement, Paul was dead.

peterT · Feb 6, 2013

Trax said:

Matthew 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

2000 years have passed since the Governor came, and who is he ruling over, us Christians spiritual Israel

And there is no Jew or Greek in Christ Jesus.

O ye of little faith

Katy-follower · Feb 6, 2013

Trax said:

As I have understood it, we are currently in the time of the gentiles. During the tribulation God then turns to Israel and deals with them, the ones that rejected Him. I've not seen any purpose or reason for the gentile church to be here still, since the focus will be solely on Israel. You are right what you said, about God providing a hiding place for the remnant (which is Israel).

One question on my mind - for the gentiles left behind... will the door to salvation be closed to them? I wonder, because all gentiles (that are foreknown to be saved) will be saved before God focuses on Israel. I know the tribulation is the last call to repentance, but there will be a shift from gentiles to Israel.

The plea of Israel (I've yet to study this section, so not sure of the accuracy of this, please check for yourself)............

To read the rest: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/57305-campaign-armageddon.html

peterT · Feb 6, 2013

Katy-follower said:

I would like you to show scripture stating that the church is not here for the great tribulation?

Because, I have never seen a scripture in the Bible showing Jesus coming before the great tribulation.

I have never seen a scripture in the Bible showing where you hear the sound of a trumpet or a last trumpet sounding before the great tribulation.

I have never seen a scripture in the Bible showing Jesus coming in the clouds before the great tribulation.

I have never seen a scripture in the Bible showing any biblical event like a resurrection or what some Christians call the rapture before the great tribulation.

I have never seen a scripture in the Bible where the angels do any reaping before the great tribulation.

I have never seen a scripture in the Bible where the dead or the living raising before the great tribulation.

There is No story, there’s No event, No Bible verses, NOTHING in the Bible showing Jesus coming before the great tribulation.

So how did you come up with that?

Katy-follower · Feb 6, 2013

I've provided numerous scriptures in other threads and could post many scriptures here again, some of which are blatantly obvious from their wording, but scripture gets ignored by people that have their own opinions. Just the other day someone said it doesn't matter how many scriptures you show a person, if they have a strong opinion on a matter then they will always disregard it. We have to look at what scripture says and not try to make it what we want to make it. If scripture agrees with your thoughts then I would gladly accept that, but I have seen nothing suggesting we are to experience the wrath to come. I don't get this same message from scripture that you get. What I do get is that we are in the time of the gentiles, the church age, which will come to an end soon. After it ends, the focus will be on Israel in those last days.

I've always wondered why so many are adamant about being here through all the wrath. God's word says to pray you are accounted worthy to escape the things to come. If you're so desperate to be here, then maybe He will let you stay? The world is already being deceived and now they're not being warned about a future 'catching up,' so when many disappear they will believe the cover up lie about what happened.

If there is no catching up of the saints then millions of babies and children will be here and their parents will make them take the mark of the beast, so pretty much all children will be sent to eternal darkness then, by your opinion.

The rapture/'being caught up' is where we meet Him in the clouds. This is an event that happens in the twinkling of an eye. Though the world will not see us being caught up, they will notice a sudden disappearance. This is not the time of Jesus' return. This is the catching up. No one on the earth will see Him when we are caught up. His second coming will be His official return, where all will see Him. We return with Him. He returns to restore Israel. It is Israel that He deals with. As you can see, there is confusion over the rapture and second coming. Many try to discredit the rapture by trying to tie it to the second coming as a way to disregard it. However, we are caught up into the clouds to meet Him but He does not appear to the world at that time. His second coming will be with us. It doesn't make sense for us to be caught up into the sky and then turn around and come back down with Him immediately. We are in heaven with Him and then we return with Him at His second coming, where He deals with Israel.

You need to look at what events actually take place in the last days and the purpose of the tribulation.

[video=youtube_share;7sXoTp5xgHM]http://youtu.be/7sXoTp5xgHM[/video]

Katy-follower · Feb 6, 2013

[video=youtube_share;fzsBC2yiqG8]http://youtu.be/fzsBC2yiqG8[/video]

Katy-follower · Feb 6, 2013

[video=youtube_share;8On-aU5DoMQ]http://youtu.be/8On-aU5DoMQ[/video]

peterT · Feb 6, 2013

Katy-follower said:

You may think you have quoted numerous scriptures in other threads. But I have never seen any

Bowman · Feb 6, 2013

God in human form has already been on earth numerous times...namely as Malek Yahweh in the OT and Jesus Christ in the NT.

It really should not come as any surprise that He will come again...

Brother_Don · Feb 6, 2013

Just be ready, live every moment as if Jesus could come at any moment. Don't get caught with head in gutter.

Eccl12and13 · Feb 9, 2013

Katy-follower said:

Is this the time you are speaking of below?

1 Cor.15
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Because if it is...just HOW many times will this happen? How many "Last Trumps" will sound? If this happens BEFORE the Tribulation Period, then the trump that was heard when the above event happened was NOT the last trump!

.

Eccl12and13 · Feb 9, 2013

Katy-follower said:

How many did God kill in the flood? Or how about those of babies in Sodom and Gomorrah? And what about the babies, the first born whose parents did NOT obey and wipe the blood of a lamb across their door, in Egypt? And let's not forget the nations that God helped Israel to overcome!

Do you really believe God has a problem with those that do not obey His will?

If you are not in God's place of safety during the Tribulation Period, you will either die for the word of God, or you and your family will take the mark of the beast...plain and simple.

.

Eccl12and13 · Feb 9, 2013

Katy-follower said:

I am assuming that you agree with the video you posted. So I would assume that you also agree that the Tribulation Period is ONLY for the nation of Israel. But that is not what scripture tell us. Let's read a little about the time of the Tribulation Period and of the man in charge;

Rev. 13
[2] And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
[3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
[4] And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
[5] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Above we clearly see that the person that the person John is speaking about is the man of sin. We know this because John tells us that He was given power and authority by Satan. Let's confirm that the above is speaking of the Tribulation Period;

[13] And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
[14] And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
[15] And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
[16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
[18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

So there is no doubt as to Who this person is and WHAT period is being spoke of. The person is the anti-christ, the man of sin, the son of perdition. And the time spoken of is the Great Tribulation Period. We know this because it is the time when a mark will be needed by ALL to buy or sell.

Now let's go back and read WHO this man of sin has control over;

[6] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
[7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

So this anti-christ was given power over ALL that dwell upon the earth; ALL Kindreds, ALL Tongues and ALL Nations!

Well....if you believe that the Tribulation Period is ONLY for the nation of Israel that would mean that EVERY other nation on earth has also been raptured away to be with Christ...leaving ONLY the nation of Israel to go through the Great Tribulation Period.

But is that what is said above in God's word? Let's read it again.....let's not ignore scripture;

Rev. 13
[7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

No! God's word does NOT say that ONLY the nation of Israel is ruled by this man, but that ALL "....kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

.

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Part - 3 Can Jesus Christ Second Return Really Happen at ANY Moment?

Jennyyyyy

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