Re: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts
Yes, you're missing something. You're missing prophecy. The word says that the Christians will be grafted into the Jews, not the other way around. At the end, we will all be in Jerusalem, learning the Torah at the feet of Messiah. The promise is for all believers. There will be no "Jews" or "Christians." As Paul saw in his vision, there is one people, one body of believers. There are no "unclean" people. There are people who have things wrong, like the Jews not believing that Messiah has come and gone. Prophecy says they will eventually accept him, and more and more Jews do everyday. Christians have a LOT of things wrong, and that's not what this conversation is about. That doesn't mean they don't have faith, or that they don't truly believe. Being wrong is not the same as being condemned to hell.
Isa 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isaiah 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
All believers will gather in Jerusalem, and they will hear Messiah speak about his laws and about his paths, and teach us how to live his way. These divisions we make to cause ourselves to be superior to another group of people will become meaningless. The King of the Earth doesn't care what silly labels people make. He's cares about what's in your heart, and what you do in your life.
My god doesn't break his promises. Ever. If he made a promise to Israel, he's going to keep it. He's already doing it. If he made a promise to the multitudes, the goyim, he's going to keep it. If people think their god breaks promises, why do they think he's going to keep his promises to them? Either one believes the words out of his own mouth, or they don't. If they don't they think he's a liar and an oath-breaker.
Yes, you're missing something. You're missing prophecy. The word says that the Christians will be grafted into the Jews, not the other way around. At the end, we will all be in Jerusalem, learning the Torah at the feet of Messiah. The promise is for all believers. There will be no "Jews" or "Christians." As Paul saw in his vision, there is one people, one body of believers. There are no "unclean" people. There are people who have things wrong, like the Jews not believing that Messiah has come and gone. Prophecy says they will eventually accept him, and more and more Jews do everyday. Christians have a LOT of things wrong, and that's not what this conversation is about. That doesn't mean they don't have faith, or that they don't truly believe. Being wrong is not the same as being condemned to hell.
Isa 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isaiah 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
All believers will gather in Jerusalem, and they will hear Messiah speak about his laws and about his paths, and teach us how to live his way. These divisions we make to cause ourselves to be superior to another group of people will become meaningless. The King of the Earth doesn't care what silly labels people make. He's cares about what's in your heart, and what you do in your life.
My god doesn't break his promises. Ever. If he made a promise to Israel, he's going to keep it. He's already doing it. If he made a promise to the multitudes, the goyim, he's going to keep it. If people think their god breaks promises, why do they think he's going to keep his promises to them? Either one believes the words out of his own mouth, or they don't. If they don't they think he's a liar and an oath-breaker.
(Please read all of it, before you simply give your opinion on the definition of replacement theology.)
I've been trying to sort through this issue of who God is working through now, who gets God's promises, and just who is a "replacement theologian", or if that term is even legit.
I want to ask a few questions.
Who is God working through now?
A. People who claim the OT, who claim Abraham as an ancestor, but who reject Jesus.
B People who don't reject Jesus.
Who gets the promises of God?
A. People who claim the OT, who claim Abraham as an ancestor, but who reject Jesus.
B People who don't reject Jesus.
Who makes up the church?
A. People who claim the OT, who claim Abraham as an ancestor, but who reject Jesus.
B People who don't reject Jesus.
I don't know anyone with orthodox doctrine who would say God is working through and revealing himself through rebellious people who are actively and ultimately rejecting Jesus.
I don't know anyone with orthodox doctrine who would say God gives his promises to those who will ultimately reject Jesus.
I don't know anyone with orthodox doctrine who says the church is composed of people who ultimately reject Jesus.
So those who don't reject Jesus ultimately receive the promises of God.
Those who don't reject Jesus are called the church.
I also don't know anyone with orthodox doctrine who would say that physical decedents of Abraham who don't reject Jesus, won't receive God's promises.
So I guess i'm trying to figure out why this label of "replacement theology" gets pinned on folks, seeing most folks believe the only ones who receive God's promises are those who trust in Jesus, and those who trust in Jesus are called the church.
Is there a detail of "replacement theology" I'm missing.
I believe God keeps his promises to the physical descendants of Abraham, but only to the ones who trust in Jesus, which means those are kept to those in the church, since the church is composed of those who trust Jesus.
What am I missing on this one?
I've been trying to sort through this issue of who God is working through now, who gets God's promises, and just who is a "replacement theologian", or if that term is even legit.
I want to ask a few questions.
Who is God working through now?
A. People who claim the OT, who claim Abraham as an ancestor, but who reject Jesus.
B People who don't reject Jesus.
Who gets the promises of God?
A. People who claim the OT, who claim Abraham as an ancestor, but who reject Jesus.
B People who don't reject Jesus.
Who makes up the church?
A. People who claim the OT, who claim Abraham as an ancestor, but who reject Jesus.
B People who don't reject Jesus.
I don't know anyone with orthodox doctrine who would say God is working through and revealing himself through rebellious people who are actively and ultimately rejecting Jesus.
I don't know anyone with orthodox doctrine who would say God gives his promises to those who will ultimately reject Jesus.
I don't know anyone with orthodox doctrine who says the church is composed of people who ultimately reject Jesus.
So those who don't reject Jesus ultimately receive the promises of God.
Those who don't reject Jesus are called the church.
I also don't know anyone with orthodox doctrine who would say that physical decedents of Abraham who don't reject Jesus, won't receive God's promises.
So I guess i'm trying to figure out why this label of "replacement theology" gets pinned on folks, seeing most folks believe the only ones who receive God's promises are those who trust in Jesus, and those who trust in Jesus are called the church.
Is there a detail of "replacement theology" I'm missing.
I believe God keeps his promises to the physical descendants of Abraham, but only to the ones who trust in Jesus, which means those are kept to those in the church, since the church is composed of those who trust Jesus.
What am I missing on this one?