"Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

homwardbound · Sep 3, 2013

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

THOUGHT FOR THE DAY
Lesson our judgement of others. We never see the whole picture. Never.
there are 1,000 reasons a person can behave a particular way. We don't know what is going on in their movie that motivates them to act in that way. I never know how I'd behave if I were in the other shoes. Today little by little, it would be good to learn to be more forgiving. Learn to where we can come from a place of help, rather than Judgement.

Judgements are only based on what one sees, from their owns thoughts. From their own experiences. There is truly only one that knows all. that one would be and is the creator of all.
If one learns to listen to the creator as Jesus Christ revealed to all mankind. (Christ taught us, to do nothing or say nothing w/o Father's instruction first and foremost), we would make the right judgements, with out condemnation. ( coming from the one listening),much less likely
The ones that argued would reveal their true selves, as was done in the day of visitation from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Steer clear from arguements, seek the truth in all things and one shall be free from the world and it's traps.

phil36 · Sep 3, 2013

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

homwardbound said:

That is not an order per say. It is putting things in the order that things were created, and if a man puts and has Christ as his head of himself, then he will treat his wife with Love beyond measure.
If the man sees the Love of God first then he will love back as he sees this love of God that no human flesh can do.
So God today can only be worshipped in Spirit and truth, and no flesh in his sight will please God, then why is it we are being worldly in this, and not Spiritual, seeing us all as equal. So when things are not going in unity, out of order, not communicating, then something is wrong. For God is not the Author of confusion right? Flesh has then got to be in the way. For the Spirit of God is never out of agreement with God, yet flesh is even if it acts as if it is not, it is.

Romans 4

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, [SUP]7 [/SUP]saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. [SUP]10 [/SUP]How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: [SUP]12 [/SUP]and the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: [SUP]15 [/SUP]because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, [SUP]17 [/SUP](as it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb: [SUP]20 [/SUP]he staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; [SUP]21 [/SUP]and being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. [SUP]22 [/SUP]And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; [SUP]24 [/SUP]but for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; [SUP]25 [/SUP]who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Does the above include women or is this just for man, so women have to go through man to be Justified by God? I think not. Mixing Law and grace is like trying to mix oil and water. Oil and water does not mix, it can appear to if stirred up, which is what is happening and bringing in Law to unredeemed flesh and blood. causing division(s) as what we are to watch out for.
Why is it we are not walking by Faith and mixing Law and making up our own sets of rules?

I haven't got a clue what that has to do with..male and female equality and their differing functions.. can you explain?

Blackson · Sep 3, 2013

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

1still_waters said:

The problem I see in this issue of women keeping silent in the church is that we first do not take into consideration the reason why Paul said this, the background of the church at that time. This makes us conclude that he was telling women not to preach in the church. If this is the case then Paul is causing contradictions in the Bible which i believe has no contradictions to itself.( I am excluding the Greek and Hebrew word for speaking, teaching and preaching for the sake of time and space)

We have to understand that Paul encourages the same women to exercise their spiritual gifts; not at home but in the congregation (1 Corinthians 11:5). Paul also tells us that there is no man all woman in Christ (Galatians 3:28). This verse alone answers all racism and of all class, status and social distinctions.There are many verses in the Bible that give similar idea. This shows that Paul was not stopping women from preaching.

Remember, in the church at that time, men and women did not normally sit together, but rather at the opposite sides of the room. The coming of Christianity gave women to fully participate in activities of worship without being used as it was with the worship in the temple of Artemis or goddess Diana. In this immature church of Corinth, women could call on their husbands in the midst of the preaching or teaching, asking for explanation concerning certain things, thus, interrupting the sermon.

The women usually speaking in the church were married women. Paul advises that if they have something to learn, they should ask their husbands at home (v35a). Today is a different case, we usually sit together, and there is usually order in the church. Yet, this command still stand as it guides the people about the order of worship.

homwardbound · Sep 3, 2013

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

phil36 said:

You have shown this to me already that you do not see the difference between Flesh and Spirit. There is a distinct difference. Either we are of the flesh or the Spirit of God, born again in Spirit through the resurrected Christ whom is justified in the Spirit of God and all that are this, male or female are one in God's Spirit.
Do you see this, For no flesh pleases God. Only one ever did and that is Christ Jesus, whom we do not know in the flesh, but we do in the Spirit know him and by this being born again in God's Spirit we are one with no divisions.
[h=3]Romans 8[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]Free from Indwelling Sin[/h]8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[SUP][a][/SUP] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. [SUP]8 [/SUP]So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

phil36 · Sep 3, 2013

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

homwardbound said:

You have shown this to me already that you do not see the difference between Flesh and Spirit. There is a distinct difference. Either we are of the flesh or the Spirit of God, born again in Spirit through the resurrected Christ whom is justified in the Spirit of God and all that are this, male or female are one in God's Spirit.
Do you see this, For no flesh pleases God. Only one ever did and that is Christ Jesus, whom we do not know in the flesh, but we do in the Spirit know him and by this being born again in God's Spirit we are one with no divisions.
Romans 8

New King James Version (NKJV)

Free from Indwelling Sin

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[SUP][a][/SUP] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. [SUP]8 [/SUP]So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Hi Homeward,

I think you will find that I have never said there is not a difference between flesh and Spirit.. (mans nature..and not physical flesh).
So can you tell me what bearing between the equal status of man and women, and their function in God's created order relates to what you are saying..

Many thanks

Phil

homwardbound · Sep 4, 2013

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

phil36 said:

In the Spirit of God is what we are if we believe born again. We are not of flesh and blood any longer even though we walk around in flesh and blood. By God we are dead to flesh and blood and alive to God in Spirit by the resurrected Christ, God does this for us on the day we first believe. God seals us with the Holy Ghost.
Ephesians 1:13 in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Now God views in Spirit, not flesh and blood, for God is Spirit:
John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth

And we the ones that believe are to renew our minds in the Spirit of God

Ephesians 4:23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

So from God's view point:
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

So does this clear it up for you, praying so. seeing in the Spirit of God is freedom from all the flesh fighting of I am not your not, yes I am and so on and so forth. In the Spirit we will be in order without grudges, without I am above you or you are below me attitudes. We are all one in God's Spirit
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

There are no fights in God's Spirit, so either we are born of the flesh or Spirit?

homwardbound · Sep 4, 2013

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

phil36 said:

Please read all before responding, bear with me please, I am not beating around the bush. Ask God in you for the truth and see what God shows you and discard the rest

It is not good for man to be alone, I (God) will make a suitable help mate for him. Woman, and I see here as a help -meet.
Created from the rib equal to Adam, and bears the continued life of mankind through her.
Now in the fall all things fell. The whole earth groaned. And Statuses of I am better than you developed.
We have everyone striving to live, not die, yet death comes anyway to all flesh and blood. Because flesh and blood awareness is selfish to live and kills to do so, over their fellow human beings. There in the time of Noah God regretted making man, since in all man's thoughts were how to survive and not care about others in the process, except those that agreed with them. God only saw Noah as righteous, and saved Noah and Family.
Why Because Noah believed God and was fair to all mankind, not being a "Noah better than you"
So God came to earth to restore us all and make us all one in God through his Son. And gave the Apostles the message of reconciliation. we are redeemed back to God in the Spirit of God if you will believe God through Son
So there is no more anyone, better than you, me or anyone else we are one in Christ
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Order in flesh is needed since we are not walking as he walked in his Spirit. And flesh and blood is still in control of many believers that do not know truth (learning it yes). This is what 1 Cor. was all about, the letter to them, about not seeing truth the whole truth. They took advantage of being forgiven. and harmed their fellow neighbors against their wills.
So what did Paul have to say to do? Yes put them under Law so that they might see their need for Christ the Author and finisher of their Faith and Law would have done it's Job. Which it did do, as seen in 2 Cor. to them especially 2 cor. 7 where it says they came to a Godly sorrow over the worldly one they had.
Worldly is in competition, as to be better than others
Godly is equal, and in God all get their chance to talk as we all do here on CC, being equal and not against, and do not have to agree for I know those that do have God and God has them, God does this and I trust God in this verse below:
Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand

It matters not which way this (I am better, above, you or you and those and those) is sliced, diced and or cubed, in Father's sight we are one in God, through Son Christ it has (past tense) already been done for all that believe in him.
I am only viewing things from God the Father's vantage point, not man's.
Praying this might help
Thanks hope to have helped in God's timing not mine

resurrection33 · Sep 8, 2013

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

homwardbound said:

We have commandments to follow.

DiscipleDave · Sep 8, 2013

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

1still_waters said:

There is nothing in Scriptures that indicates these verses no longer apply. Only what men teach make void the Word of God. There will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth on that mournful day when the Lord shall appear and take His Church, which will be very few indeed. i would say like one out of a thousand professing Christians will be actually walking that narrow and difficult path that leads to life everlasting, and will be taken up to meet Jesus in the sky.

^i^

maxwel · Sep 8, 2013

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

There SHOULD be a special verse in the bible that says,

"Women keep silence if you're arguing with Max about something, and he's losing."

: )

homwardbound · Sep 9, 2013

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

resurrection33 said:

good luck with that I have Mercy from God through Christ to be thankful for, and praise God for, and Love all God's waqy not man's
Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Matthew 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

Entering his Courts with thanksgiving and praise as King David exclaimed before the cross ever came in hid forth sight he wrote that psalms 100:4

[h=3]Luke 18:10-14[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. [SUP]11 [/SUP]The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. [SUP]14 [/SUP]I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

thecreationtutor · Sep 9, 2013

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

do your own hermaneutic study

RickShafer · Sep 9, 2013

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

Hey....if a woman is right and on point all of the time....I say - - "Speak up!"
- - -On the other hand.....if a woman is dull and wrong all of the time I say: "Be quiet!"
No woman (or man) is right all of the time.
No woman (or man) is totally in error all of the time.

- - - - - - It's called getting over it. (We are all God's children)

livingepistle · Sep 9, 2013

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

1still_waters said:

In 1Corinthians 14:33-35 regarding how believing wives and husbands were to conduct themselves during services, it seems very clear that these verses were written to deal with specific constraints that address the first-century church culture. It was not God’s intention for all women throughout all time to be silent in churches.

The Corinth church was operating in disorder such as speaking in tongues without interpretation, interpretation without witnesses for confirmation, and the apparent disorderly conduct of wives during church service: the entire congregation of participants were conducting themselves in an unorganized way. Paul gave commandments of God that established codes of conduct for these churches. 1Corinthians 14:1-40

Priscilla and Aquila are exemplary examples of proper conduct for Christian wives and husbands that participate in ministry. Original manuscripts yield supporting evidence that Priscilla and Aquila were equal in understanding salvation and how to effectively preach/teach the Gospel. Acts 18:2,18,26; Romans 16:3; 1 Corinthians 16:19

Other Examples of Christian women not being silent in church or instructing male believers:

Phoebe was a leader in the church at Cenchrae. An official teacher and missionary commended by Paul, she was a woman of authority, responsibility and influence. Romans 16: 1-2

Dorcas (Gr.) also Tabitha (Aramaic): She is the only one mentioned in the feminine form of "disciple" in the New Testament. "In this context, 'disciple' seems to describe those with authority." Acts 9: 36-42

Euodia and Syntyche: Paul mentions that these two women worked on an equal basis with him to advance the Gospel; Phil 4:2-3.

God chooses the messenger, method, and place to deliver His word.

In agreement with Biblical scriptures, it is irrelevant to God whether the messenger is female or male. It is God and He alone, which usurps authority over the emissary of his Word.

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"Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

homwardbound

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phil36

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Blackson

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homwardbound

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phil36

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homwardbound

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homwardbound

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resurrection33

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DiscipleDave

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maxwel

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homwardbound

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thecreationtutor

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RickShafer

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livingepistle

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