Jesus VS Muhammad

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
26,744
5,287
113
#41
Muhammad vs. Jesus: Judging Religions by Their Central Figures

Every time I post a video about Jihad, several Muslims, and some non Muslims, send me messages saying, David, why are you judging an entire religion by the actions of a few people? These messages are confusing, because nowhere have I ever said, look, some Muslims carried out a terrorist attack, therefore Islam promotes terrorism.

Instead I go through Islam's most trusted sources, showing them Muhammad's teachings promote jihad. So I am not judging Islam by the actions of a few Muslims, I am explaining what it teaches.


I can only assume that the people who tell me not to judge an entire religion by the actions of a few aren't saying this because they have thought carefully about any points I have made. They are saying it because this is just what they have been trained to say whenever someone criticizes Islam. There is no actual thought involved
(beyond wanting to kill the messenger!). It is now an automated response.

But since I am getting bored pointing this out every time I talk about jihad, I decided to make a short video clearly stating my position on judging religions.

My official position on judging Islam is this: we don't judge Islam based on the actions of Muslims who slaughter unbelievers in the name of Allah, or rape their female captives, or beat their wives into submission, or murder cartoonists. We don't judge Islam by Isis or
Al-Qaeda
or the Taliban or Boko Haram or Al-Shabaab
or any of the other terrorists groups who want to violently subjugate the entire world to Islam.

Instead we judge Islam based on the teachings and example of Muhammad, a man who
A was convinced at one point that he was demon possessed
B tried repeatedly to commit suicide
C admittedly delivered revelations from the devil
D complained that he was a victim of a magic spell that
gave him delusional thoughts and false beliefs

E supported his religion by robbing people
F started a war with Mecca when he had a chance to live in peace in Medina
G had people assassinated for criticizing his religion
H beheaded hundreds of Jews for trying to defend
themselves once they realized he was eliminating them

I ordered his followers to execute anyone who leaves his religion
J commanded his followers to violently subjugate the entire world
K tortured people for money
L bought, sold, owned, and traded black African slaves
M called Ethiopians raisin heads and claimed that Satan looks like a black man
N had sex with a nine year old girl
O had at least nine wives at one time even though his own revelations only allowed four
P married the wife of his own adopted son after causing the divorce by lusting after her
Q had sex with his slave girls
R broke the promise he made to his wives that he would stop having sex
with his slave girls after he got caught with a slave girl in the bed of his wife

S allowed his followers to rape their female captives
T took the most beautiful captives back to his own tent
U told his followers they could beat their wives into submission
V declared that women are stupid and that their testimony is unreliable
W promoted idolatrous pagan practices like kissing the black stone and bowing down to the Kaaba
X repeated stories based on forgeries and passed them off as revelations from God
Y portrayed God as deceptive and Jesus as a complete failure
Z has kept more people from knowing the true God than any other false prophet in history

So, if we judge Islam by Muhammad, what can we conclude?

Worst religion ever!

[video=youtube;Uem_0GQP-zY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uem_0GQP-zY[/video]
^^Source ^^

But we need to be consistent here, which means that we shouldn't judge Christianity based on the actions of Christians who invented hospitals to care for the sick, invented orphanages to care for unwanted children, pioneered the western education system by starting universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, led the scientific revolution, ended slavery in the west, and so on. We don't judge Christianity by all the Christians who changed the world. We judge Christianity by the teachings and example of Jesus, Who:

A created the universe
B sustains the universe and existence
C laid aside His glory so that He could enter creation as a human being to suffer for our sake
D as to His human nature, was born of a virgin
E fulfilled dozens of Old Testament prophesies
F miraculously fed thousands of people on more than one occasion
G walked on water
H could calm storms by speaking
I healed the sick
J cleansed the lepers
K cast out demons
L raised the dead
M made the lame walk
N gave sight to the blind
O gave hearing to the deaf
P gave hope to the oppressed
Q confronted and rebuked their oppressors
R broke down the barriers that kept people divided by race, class, and gender
S ordered His followers to love everyone including their enemies
T commanded His followers not to use violence in His name
U endured torture and death for our sins
V told the Father to forgive those who crucified Him
W rose from the dead
X gives us His righteousness so that we can know God
Y intercedes with the Father on our behalf
Z will eventually judge the entire world

So if we judge Christianity by Jesus, what can we conclude?

Best message ever!

To all the Muslims
who sent me messages pointing out that we should not judge Islam by the actions of Muslims? Thank you for the comments, I agree with you completely. We don't judge religions by their adherents. We judge religions by their central figures and teachings.

 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
218
24
18
#42
I dont give Muhammad a damn ,cuz bible said we should more like jesus ,if Muhammad really want to be something as jesus
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
218
24
18
#43
2chapter-113 And the Jews say the Christians follow nothing ,and the Christians say the Jews follow nothing ; yet both are readers of the bible Scripture. Even thus speak those who know not. Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that wherein they differ.

2chapter-129 Our Lord! And raise up in their midst a messenger from among them who shall recite unto them Thy revelations, and shall instruct them(The Muslim) in the bible Scripture and in wisdom and shall make them(The Muslim) grow. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Mighty, Wise

this is not out of this topic
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
218
24
18
#44
2chapter-113 And the Jews say the Christians follow nothing ,and the Christians say the Jews follow nothing ; yet both are readers of the bible Scripture. Even thus speak those who know not. Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that wherein they differ.

2chapter-129 Our Lord! And raise up in their midst a messenger from among them who shall recite unto them Thy revelations, and shall instruct them(The Muslim) in the bible Scripture and in wisdom and shall make them(The Muslim) grow. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Mighty, Wise

this is not out of this topic
I just want to say the truth about the bible
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
397
83
#45
However, both Jesus and Muhammad are myths. There is no evidence that God exists.

I guess good stories for children, folktales, fairy tales etc
I suggest you don't know what you are talking about.
1. The universe is expanding therefore has a begining. There are 2 opposed paradigms for it.
2. Paradigm 1 is big bang evolution but it violates 5 scientific laws.
3. Paradigm 2 is "In the beginning God created the heavens and earth.
4. Old earth falls apart with OOPARTS at s8int.com. Hammer in coal etc.
5. Archaeological digs verify cities in Genesis.
6. Sodom when excavated had the lower part of the city turned into dust by a pyroclastic (super hot) blast and the upper city had the upper parts of the buildings sheared off. Miracle 1.
7. Jericho had its massive inner wall fall outward covering the smooth ramp between it and the smaller outer wall. Thus providing means for an army to invade and one did killing everyone and burning the city. Nothing of value was taken including personal items and the just harvested grain in full vats. Just like the Bible describes. Miracle 2.
8. Diamonds have C14 which shouldn't be if billions of years old.
The list is endless!!

Methinks you need to revise your beliefs and put them in line with science and other evidence instead of holding to your emotion based beliefs. Buy then every atheist I give this evidence to just runs and hides and no dialog. It obviously creates a major painful problem in their minds.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
397
83
#46
2chapter-113 And the Jews say the Christians follow nothing ,and the Christians say the Jews follow nothing ; yet both are readers of the bible Scripture. Even thus speak those who know not. Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that wherein they differ.

2chapter-129 Our Lord! And raise up in their midst a messenger from among them who shall recite unto them Thy revelations, and shall instruct them(The Muslim) in the bible Scripture and in wisdom and shall make them(The Muslim) grow. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Mighty, Wise

this is not out of this topic
You need to rethink your beliefs. The Koran has several flaws. I studied it.
1. It claims the Torah, Psalms, and Gospels are from God.
2. It claims Jesus never said he was anything more than a prophet. John 1:1 to 14 states Jesus is God incarnate. Also when his disciples asked Him to show them the father he stated in John 10:24 to 30 "If you have seen me you have seen the Father. I and the Father are one.

The following texts are from according to the Koran the inspired word of God.

John 1 New International Version (NIV)
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 10 AMPC
24 So the Jews surrounded Him and began asking Him, How long are You going to keep us in doubt and suspense? If You are really the Christ (the Messiah), tell us so plainly and openly.
25 Jesus answered them, I have told you so, yet you do not believe Me [you do not trust Me and rely on Me]. The very works that I do by the power of My Father and in My Father’s name bear witness concerning Me [they are My credentials and evidence in support of Me].
26 But you do not believe and trust and rely on Me because you do not belong to My fold [you are no sheep of Mine].
27 The sheep that are My own hear and are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never lose it or perish throughout the ages. [To all eternity they shall never by any means be destroyed.] And no one is able to snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater and mightier than all [else]; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are One.

Continuing with #3.

3. The Torah and Gospels state that God is immutable (unchanging) however the Koran has many abrogations making a later spoken section be replaced by the newer one. How can the immutable God change His mind!!!

Thus while stating the Torah Psalms, and Gospels are from God the Koran disagrees with it in several issues. How can this be. Which book is speaking the truth. Try this fact on for size. Every archaeological dig on places in the Bible demonstrate it is 100% accurate. The only place the Koran talks about when the archaeologists dug found the Koran was completely in error. Guess which book I believe?!?!
 
Last edited:

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
397
83
#47
​I enjoy teaching Muslims the Koran is full of errors. Hopefully they might turn to Jesus. I can put the information out there but can't make them believe it. Depends onon how blinded they are!!
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
397
83
#48
Muhammad vs. Jesus: Judging Religions by Their Central Figures

Every time I post a video about Jihad, several Muslims, and some non Muslims, send me messages saying, David, why are you judging an entire religion by the actions of a few people? These messages are confusing, because nowhere have I ever said, look, some Muslims carried out a terrorist attack, therefore Islam promotes terrorism.

Instead I go through Islam's most trusted sources, showing them Muhammad's teachings promote jihad. So I am not judging Islam by the actions of a few Muslims, I am explaining what it teaches.


I can only assume that the people who tell me not to judge an entire religion by the actions of a few aren't saying this because they have thought carefully about any points I have made. They are saying it because this is just what they have been trained to say whenever someone criticizes Islam. There is no actual thought involved
(beyond wanting to kill the messenger!). It is now an automated response.

But since I am getting bored pointing this out every time I talk about jihad, I decided to make a short video clearly stating my position on judging religions.

My official position on judging Islam is this: we don't judge Islam based on the actions of Muslims who slaughter unbelievers in the name of Allah, or rape their female captives, or beat their wives into submission, or murder cartoonists. We don't judge Islam by Isis or
Al-Qaeda
or the Taliban or Boko Haram or Al-Shabaab
or any of the other terrorists groups who want to violently subjugate the entire world to Islam.

Instead we judge Islam based on the teachings and example of Muhammad, a man who
A was convinced at one point that he was demon possessed
B tried repeatedly to commit suicide
C admittedly delivered revelations from the devil
D complained that he was a victim of a magic spell that
gave him delusional thoughts and false beliefs

E supported his religion by robbing people
F started a war with Mecca when he had a chance to live in peace in Medina
G had people assassinated for criticizing his religion
H beheaded hundreds of Jews for trying to defend
themselves once they realized he was eliminating them

I ordered his followers to execute anyone who leaves his religion
J commanded his followers to violently subjugate the entire world
K tortured people for money
L bought, sold, owned, and traded black African slaves
M called Ethiopians raisin heads and claimed that Satan looks like a black man
N had sex with a nine year old girl
O had at least nine wives at one time even though his own revelations only allowed four
P married the wife of his own adopted son after causing the divorce by lusting after her
Q had sex with his slave girls
R broke the promise he made to his wives that he would stop having sex
with his slave girls after he got caught with a slave girl in the bed of his wife

S allowed his followers to rape their female captives
T took the most beautiful captives back to his own tent
U told his followers they could beat their wives into submission
V declared that women are stupid and that their testimony is unreliable
W promoted idolatrous pagan practices like kissing the black stone and bowing down to the Kaaba
X repeated stories based on forgeries and passed them off as revelations from God
Y portrayed God as deceptive and Jesus as a complete failure
Z has kept more people from knowing the true God than any other false prophet in history

So, if we judge Islam by Muhammad, what can we conclude?

Worst religion ever!

[video=youtube;Uem_0GQP-zY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uem_0GQP-zY[/video]
^^Source ^^

But we need to be consistent here, which means that we shouldn't judge Christianity based on the actions of Christians who invented hospitals to care for the sick, invented orphanages to care for unwanted children, pioneered the western education system by starting universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, led the scientific revolution, ended slavery in the west, and so on. We don't judge Christianity by all the Christians who changed the world. We judge Christianity by the teachings and example of Jesus, Who:

A created the universe
B sustains the universe and existence
C laid aside His glory so that He could enter creation as a human being to suffer for our sake
D as to His human nature, was born of a virgin
E fulfilled dozens of Old Testament prophesies
F miraculously fed thousands of people on more than one occasion
G walked on water
H could calm storms by speaking
I healed the sick
J cleansed the lepers
K cast out demons
L raised the dead
M made the lame walk
N gave sight to the blind
O gave hearing to the deaf
P gave hope to the oppressed
Q confronted and rebuked their oppressors
R broke down the barriers that kept people divided by race, class, and gender
S ordered His followers to love everyone including their enemies
T commanded His followers not to use violence in His name
U endured torture and death for our sins
V told the Father to forgive those who crucified Him
W rose from the dead
X gives us His righteousness so that we can know God
Y intercedes with the Father on our behalf
Z will eventually judge the entire world

So if we judge Christianity by Jesus, what can we conclude?

Best message ever!

To all the Muslims
who sent me messages pointing out that we should not judge Islam by the actions of Muslims? Thank you for the comments, I agree with you completely. We don't judge religions by their adherents. We judge religions by their central figures and teachings.


I am in total agreement with you. I studied the Koran and Muhammad some years ago. He was a disgusting man and created a false religion. He made rules for everybody and exempted himself from them. Number of wives for example.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
218
24
18
#49
You need to rethink your beliefs. The Koran has several flaws. I studied it.
1. It claims the Torah, Psalms, and Gospels are from God.
2. It claims Jesus never said he was anything more than a prophet. John 1:1 to 14 states Jesus is God incarnate. Also when his disciples asked Him to show them the father he stated in John 10:24 to 30 "If you have seen me you have seen the Father. I and the Father are one.

The following texts are from according to the Koran the inspired word of God.

John 1 New International Version (NIV)
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 10 AMPC
24 So the Jews surrounded Him and began asking Him, How long are You going to keep us in doubt and suspense? If You are really the Christ (the Messiah), tell us so plainly and openly.
25 Jesus answered them, I have told you so, yet you do not believe Me [you do not trust Me and rely on Me]. The very works that I do by the power of My Father and in My Father’s name bear witness concerning Me [they are My credentials and evidence in support of Me].
26 But you do not believe and trust and rely on Me because you do not belong to My fold [you are no sheep of Mine].
27 The sheep that are My own hear and are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never lose it or perish throughout the ages. [To all eternity they shall never by any means be destroyed.] And no one is able to snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater and mightier than all [else]; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are One.

Continuing with #3.

3. The Torah and Gospels state that God is immutable (unchanging) however the Koran has many abrogations making a later spoken section be replaced by the newer one. How can the immutable God change His mind!!!

Thus while stating the Torah Psalms, and Gospels are from God the Koran disagrees with it in several issues. How can this be. Which book is speaking the truth. Try this fact on for size. Every archaeological dig on places in the Bible demonstrate it is 100% accurate. The only place the Koran talks about when the archaeologists dug found the Koran was completely in error. Guess which book I believe?!?!
Galatians 1






[TABLE="class: passage-cols, width: 651"]
[TR]
[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
-
Galatians 1 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

1 Paul, an apostle (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),
[SUP]2 [/SUP]and all the brethren who are with me, Unto the churches of Galatia:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Grace be to you and peace from God the Father and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]I marvel that ye are so soon removed from Him, that called you into the grace of Christ, for another gospel.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For this is not another; but there are some who trouble you and would pervert the Gospel of Christ.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But should we, or an angel from Heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.



[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
397
83
#50
Galatians 1






[TABLE="class: passage-cols, width: 651"]
[TR]
[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
-
Galatians 1 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

1 Paul, an apostle (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),
[SUP]2 [/SUP]and all the brethren who are with me, Unto the churches of Galatia:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Grace be to you and peace from God the Father and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]I marvel that ye are so soon removed from Him, that called you into the grace of Christ, for another gospel.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For this is not another; but there are some who trouble you and would pervert the Gospel of Christ.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But should we, or an angel from Heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I prefer the AMPC version for clarification since it gives more detail. I added a couple of verses that are really an accusation against the Koran. Verses 8 and 9.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam

In Islam, Jesus is believed to have been the precursor to Muhammad, attributing the name Ahmad to someone who would follow him. Islam rejects the divinity of Jesus and teaches that Jesus was not God incarnate, nor the Son of God, and—according to some interpretations of the Quran—the crucifixion, death and resurrection is not believed to have occurred, and rather that God saved him. Despite the earliest Muslim traditions and exegesis quoting somewhat conflicting reports regarding a death and its length, the mainstream Muslim belief is that Jesus did not physically die, but was instead raised alive to heaven.

Therefore the condemnation of the Koran is in effect by verses 8 and 9.

Galatians 1 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
1 Paul, an apostle—[special messenger appointed and commissioned and sent out] not from [any body of] men nor by or through any man, but by and through Jesus Christ (the Messiah) and God the Father, Who raised Him from among the dead—
2 And all the brethren who are with me, to the churches of Galatia:
3 Grace and spiritual blessing be to you and [soul] peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah),
4 Who gave (yielded) Himself up [to atone] for our sins [and to save and sanctify us], in order to rescue and deliver us from this present wicked age and world order, in accordance with the will and purpose and plan of our God and Father—
5 To Him [be ascribed all] the glory through all the ages of the ages and the eternities of the eternities! Amen (so be it).
6 I am surprised and astonished that you are so quickly [d]turning renegade and deserting Him Who invited and called you by the grace (unmerited favor) of Christ (the Messiah) [and that you are transferring your allegiance] to a different [even an opposition] gospel.
7 Not that there is [or could be] any other [genuine Gospel], but there are [obviously] some who are troubling and disturbing and bewildering you [with a different kind of teaching which they offer as a gospel] and want to pervert and distort the Gospel of Christ (the Messiah) [into something which it absolutely is not].
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to and different from that which we preached to you, let him be accursed (anathema, devoted to destruction, doomed to eternal punishment)!
9 As we said before, so I now say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel different from or contrary to that which you received [from us], let him be accursed (anathema, devoted to destruction, doomed to eternal punishment)!
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
218
24
18
#51
this is what the Koran says 2chapter 131. When his Lord said unto him: Surrender! he said: I have surrendered to the Lord of the Worlds.

how do you think the lord of the world ?
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
397
83
#52
this is what the Koran says 2chapter 131. When his Lord said unto him: Surrender! he said: I have surrendered to the Lord of the Worlds.

how do you think the lord of the world ?
With the Koran denying the fact that Jesus (God incarnate) sacrificed Himself for any who would accept Him as savior the lord of the world is Satan!!
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
218
24
18
#53

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
218
24
18
#54
the Koran says 2chapter 116. And they say: Allah hath taken unto Himself a Son. Be He glorified! Nay, but whatsoever is in the heaven and the earth, His. All are subservient unto Him.

Allah hath taken unto Himself a Son don't know if you understad it well. it means allah has a son, guess what? who is the son ?
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
397
83
#55
the Koran says 2chapter 116. And they say: Allah hath taken unto Himself a Son. Be He glorified! Nay, but whatsoever is in the heaven and the earth, His. All are subservient unto Him.

Allah hath taken unto Himself a Son don't know if you understad it well. it means allah has a son, guess what? who is the son ?
I suggest you totally rethink that. The Koran states very clearly Jesus is not anything more than a prophet if even that. I studied the Koran for a couple of years off and on. I studied the life of Muhammad as well. He was a disgusting sexual person. He took a child of 9 as one of his several wives. He allowed himself to have more wives than the limit of 4 he imposed on other men.

The Koran states the Torah, Psalms, and the Gospels are the word of God. Then it rejects Jesus as being God incarnate that John 1:1 to 14 state he is. Here is John 1:1 to 18.

John 1 AMPC

1 In the beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.
2 He was present originally with God.
3 All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him was not even one thing made that has come into being.
4 In Him was Life, and the Life was the Light of men.
5 And the Light shines on in the darkness, for the darkness has never overpowered it [put it out or absorbed it or appropriated it, and is unreceptive to it].
6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 This man came to witness, that he might testify of the Light, that all men might believe in it [adhere to it, trust it, and rely upon it] through him.
8 He was not the Light himself, but came that he might bear witness regarding the Light.
9 There it was—the true Light [was then] coming into the world [the genuine, perfect, steadfast Light] that illumines every person.
10 He came into the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him [did not know Him].
11 He came to that which belonged to Him [to His own—His domain, creation, things, world], and they who were His own did not receive Him and did not welcome Him.
12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name—
13 Who owe their birth neither to bloods nor to the will of the flesh [that of physical impulse] nor to the will of man [that of a natural father], but to God. [They are born of God!]
14 And the Word (Christ) became flesh (human, incarnate) and tabernacled (fixed His tent of flesh, lived awhile) among us; and we [actually] saw His glory (His honor, His majesty), such glory as an only begotten son receives from his father, full of grace (favor, loving-kindness) and truth.
15 John testified about Him and cried out, This was He of Whom I said, He Who comes after me has priority over me, for He was before me. [He takes rank above me, for He existed before I did. He has advanced before me, because He is my Chief.]
16 For out of His fullness (abundance) we have all received [all had a share and we were all supplied with] one grace after another and spiritual blessing upon spiritual blessing and even favor upon favor and gift [heaped] upon gift.
17 For while the Law was given through Moses, grace (unearned, undeserved favor and spiritual blessing) and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18 No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known].


 
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soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
218
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#56
The Koran states very clearly Jesus is not anything more than a prophet if even that

show me the scripture in Koran.
I don't want to hear men's teaching about Koran,I'm not meaning you are the teacher,but Maybe you heard it somewhere else.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
397
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#57

show me the scripture in Koran.
I don't want to hear men's teaching about Koran,I'm not meaning you are the teacher,but Maybe you heard it somewhere else.
It took me a bit but here it is.

And when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.
— Qur'an, sura 5 (Al-Ma'ida), ayat 116
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
397
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#58
Here is information about the Koran rejecting the immutability (never changing) character of God. The concept of abrogation exists in the Koran. That means the Koran has to be reorderd into the sequence of spoken order so contradictory verses spoken earlier can be rejected. Here is the Islamic concept of abrogation.

Naskh (tafsir)

Naskh (نسخ) is an Arabic word usually translated as "abrogation"; It is a term used in Islamic legal exegesis for seemingly contradictory material within, or between, the two primary sources of Islamic law: the Quran and the Sunna. Several Qur'anic verses state that some revelations have been abrogated and superseded by later revelations, which are understood by many Muslim scholars as pertaining to the verses of the Quran itself.[citation needed]

Neither the Quran nor the sayings of Muhammad state which verses stand abrogated. However, narrations from Muhammad's companions inform about the abrogated verses or rulings of the religion; and the principle of abrogation of an older verse by a new verse in the Quran, or within the Hadiths, was an established principle in Sharia at least by the 9th century. The possibility of abrogation between these two primary sources of Islam has been a more contentious issue. The allowability of abrogation between sources has been one of the major differences between the Shafi'i and Hanafi fiqhs, with the Shafi'i school of jurisprudence forbidding abrogation by the Sunna of the Qur'ān, while the Hanafi school permits abrogation by the Sunna of the Qur'ān.

Seventy-one of the Quran's one hundred and fourteen surah contain abrogated verses according to one estimate. Muslim exegetes and jurists have disagreed and disputed the number of verses of the Quran and sunnah in the Hadiths recognized as abrogated.


Verses of abrogation
The verse 2:106 and 16:101 of the Quran are known as the "verses of abrogation".

Any revelation We cause to be superseded or forgotten, We replace with something better or similar. Do you [Prophet] not know that God has power over everything? (tr. Abdel Haleem)
Qur'an 2:106

When We substitute one revelation for another, – and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),– they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.
Qur'an 16:101,
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
218
24
18
#59
Here is information about the Koran rejecting the immutability (never changing) character of God. The concept of abrogation exists in the Koran. That means the Koran has to be reorderd into the sequence of spoken order so contradictory verses spoken earlier can be rejected. Here is the Islamic concept of abrogation.

Naskh (tafsir)

Naskh (نسخ) is an Arabic word usually translated as "abrogation"; It is a term used in Islamic legal exegesis for seemingly contradictory material within, or between, the two primary sources of Islamic law: the Quran and the Sunna. Several Qur'anic verses state that some revelations have been abrogated and superseded by later revelations, which are understood by many Muslim scholars as pertaining to the verses of the Quran itself.[citation needed]

Neither the Quran nor the sayings of Muhammad state which verses stand abrogated. However, narrations from Muhammad's companions inform about the abrogated verses or rulings of the religion; and the principle of abrogation of an older verse by a new verse in the Quran, or within the Hadiths, was an established principle in Sharia at least by the 9th century. The possibility of abrogation between these two primary sources of Islam has been a more contentious issue. The allowability of abrogation between sources has been one of the major differences between the Shafi'i and Hanafi fiqhs, with the Shafi'i school of jurisprudence forbidding abrogation by the Sunna of the Qur'ān, while the Hanafi school permits abrogation by the Sunna of the Qur'ān.

Seventy-one of the Quran's one hundred and fourteen surah contain abrogated verses according to one estimate. Muslim exegetes and jurists have disagreed and disputed the number of verses of the Quran and sunnah in the Hadiths recognized as abrogated.


Verses of abrogation
The verse 2:106 and 16:101 of the Quran are known as the "verses of abrogation".

Any revelation We cause to be superseded or forgotten, We replace with something better or similar. Do you [Prophet] not know that God has power over everything? (tr. Abdel Haleem)
Qur'an 2:106

When We substitute one revelation for another, – and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),– they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.
Qur'an 16:101,
thank you for your reply, once I did search the Quran , I have read a differsnt version which is very short ,I thought why the Quran is short ,I rember it and the version said something about my avatar which I used in BBS and my cyberspace, It was later that I realized it.,but when I did search the Quran later ,I can't find it anymore and the Quran is not short as we know that a long article, I wonder it why, but when I saw your reply, I realized it was possible about "abrogated" .

so who could did it ? allah ? or the almighty god ?
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
218
24
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#60
BTW, I rember it version ,it's about A rabbit under a tree, same with my avatar .