Why do Israeli's HATE Christians-?

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Dec 30, 2019
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This is blatantly false. Read Romans 11.
Yes and no is what I say. From Romans 11

13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.


17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

And don't forget 1 Peter 2:4

The Living Stone and a Chosen People
4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house[a] to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For in Scripture it says:

“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.”[b]

7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,

“The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”[c]

I believe that we are as much a holy priesthood as any Jew. Grafted in and our Jewish root is Jesus. I have read some excellent commentary and I am not a Bible scholar, but I think that Israel is spiritual as much as it is the land.
 
Dec 30, 2019
60
46
18
Yes and no is what I say. From Romans 11

13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.


17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

And don't forget 1 Peter 2:4

The Living Stone and a Chosen People
4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house[a] to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For in Scripture it says:

“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.”[b]

7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,

“The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”[c]

I believe that we are as much a holy priesthood as any Jew. Grafted in and our Jewish root is Jesus. I have read some excellent commentary and I am not a Bible scholar, but I think that Israel is spiritual as much as it is the land.
Grafted in and our Jewish root is Jesus. Add through His geneology back to Abraham and his promise from God.
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
522
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This is blatantly false. Read Romans 11.
How can you say this is false, when 9 chapters earlier, Paul states:

Romans 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Are you being selective in the scriptures you accept?
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
14,679
2,550
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How can you say this is false, when 9 chapters earlier, Paul states:

Romans 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Are you being selective in the scriptures you accept?
Are you?!! The Christians have not replaced the Jews. That is what you stated. You just shared a verse saying we are grated in, which is it?!
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
522
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Are you?!! The Christians have not replaced the Jews. That is what you stated. You just shared a verse saying we are grated in, which is it?!
Please can you quote the posts you refer to? I suspect you may be getting me confused with somebody else.

I am simply saying, as Paul does, that the true Jew is one who is inwardly Jewish rather than outwardly Jewish, and who has undergone true circumcision, of the heart, not the flesh. Don't you agree that Christians fit this description?

Romans 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
522
253
63
Are you?!! The Christians have not replaced the Jews. That is what you stated. You just shared a verse saying we are grated in, which is it?!
This is the comment I am speaking of. You claim I shared a verse saying we are grafted in. Please show where I shared this, or as I stated before, you are mixing up who said what.
 
Dec 30, 2019
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Please can you quote the posts you refer to? I suspect you may be getting me confused with somebody else.

I am simply saying, as Paul does, that the true Jew is one who is inwardly Jewish rather than outwardly Jewish, and who has undergone true circumcision, of the heart, not the flesh. Don't you agree that Christians fit this description?

Romans 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
I know you weren't addressing me, but I agree. John Hagee is preaching against replacement theology. That's a great term if you want to deny the truth that no man comes to the Father except through Christ. Yes we are grafted in and Jesus is a Jew. His geneology is listed in Matthew 1. What you stated is fully accurate and true. I think John Hagee is denying Christ Jesus with his false doctrine. The entire New Testament is a ministry of salvation to the Jew first and then the Gentile.

To say that preaching salvation to the Jews is about replacing them would be completely false. That would be denying that before everything was Jesus. To deny that he was fully God and man come from the Father to do the Fathers will to save His people.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
14,679
2,550
113
This is the comment I am speaking of. You claim I shared a verse saying we are grafted in. Please show where I shared this, or as I stated before, you are mixing up who said what.
So you don't believe we are grafted in? Can't find the post at the moment. You don't believe Gentiles are grafted in?
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
14,679
2,550
113
I know you weren't addressing me, but I agree. John Hagee is preaching against replacement theology. That's a great term if you want to deny the truth that no man comes to the Father except through Christ. Yes we are grafted in and Jesus is a Jew. His geneology is listed in Matthew 1. What you stated is fully accurate and true. I think John Hagee is denying Christ Jesus with his false doctrine. The entire New Testament is a ministry of salvation to the Jew first and then the Gentile.

To say that preaching salvation to the Jews is about replacing them would be completely false. That would be denying that before everything was Jesus. To deny that he was fully God and man come from the Father to do the Fathers will to save His people.
Replacement Theology is the belief that the Christians have replaced the Jews. Romans 11 tells us differently. I can't speak for Hagee but I think he believes as I do and the Bible says that a remnant of Jews will be saved. Right now they are blinded but one day they will see Jesus as the Messiah.
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
522
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So you don't believe we are grafted in? Can't find the post at the moment. You don't believe Gentiles are grafted in?
Of course I do. That is scriptural. But as I said, you are mistaking me with somebody else, because I didn't post this.

I know you weren't addressing me, but I agree. John Hagee is preaching against replacement theology. That's a great term if you want to deny the truth that no man comes to the Father except through Christ. Yes we are grafted in and Jesus is a Jew. His geneology is listed in Matthew 1. What you stated is fully accurate and true. I think John Hagee is denying Christ Jesus with his false doctrine. The entire New Testament is a ministry of salvation to the Jew first and then the Gentile.
Amen!

To say that preaching salvation to the Jews is about replacing them would be completely false. That would be denying that before everything was Jesus. To deny that he was fully God and man come from the Father to do the Fathers will to save His people.
I very much agree. Thank you for your post. :)

Colossians 3:9 - 11
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
 
Dec 30, 2019
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Of course I do. That is scriptural. But as I said, you are mistaking me with somebody else, because I didn't post this.

Amen!

I very much agree. Thank you for your post. :)

Colossians 3:9 - 11
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Amen.
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
522
253
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Replacement Theology is the belief that the Christians have replaced the Jews. Romans 11 tells us differently. I can't speak for Hagee but I think he believes as I do and the Bible says that a remnant of Jews will be saved. Right now they are blinded but one day they will see Jesus as the Messiah.
Acts 7:51

51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Who did Stephen say this to? It was to those who called themselves Jews, those who appeared Jewish and who were circumcised outwardly, but inwardly unbelieving and uncircumcised. However, Romans says the true Jew is one inwardly and circumcision is that of the heart, irrespective of what is outward and in the flesh.

Acts 7:52 - 60

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
14,679
2,550
113
Acts 7:51

51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Who did Stephen say this to? It was to those who called themselves Jews, those who appeared Jewish and who were circumcised outwardly, but inwardly unbelieving and uncircumcised. However, Romans says the true Jew is one inwardly and circumcision is that of the heart, irrespective of what is outward and in the flesh.

Acts 7:52 - 60

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Umm that doesn't make a Christian a Jew. The Christians haven't replaced the Jews. God still has His hand on the Jewish people. One day they will recognize Him as the Messiah.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
14,679
2,550
113
Of course I do. That is scriptural. But as I said, you are mistaking me with somebody else, because I didn't post this.

Amen!

I very much agree. Thank you for your post. :)

Colossians 3:9 - 11
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

I feel like I'm chasing my tail here. You said "And it is (true) Christians who are the true Jews " Then you say you agree that Christians are grafted in. So I ask again, which do you believe, Christians take the place of the Jews or they are grafted in?! It can't be both.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
1,080
754
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Umm that doesn't make a Christian a Jew. The Christians haven't replaced the Jews. God still has His hand on the Jewish people. One day they will recognize Him as the Messiah.
From what I can see of your disagreement is you think he is somehow proposing replacement theology. I cannot see that from his posts on the last two pages.

I really don't think this is what he is suggesting. To be grafted in to the true vine doesn't mean others are taken out. However there is much skepticism that the Lord's promises apply to the nation irrespective of whether they are truly HIS people or not.

A Christian (loosely defined) is an image bearer of Christ. Do you agree that this applies to both Jew and Gentile? Certainly, I'm sure you do. So where is the confusion?

Potentially it lies within your definition of "Jew". If we are referring to nationality then of course it would not apply. If we are referring to the religion itself in its modern day form then of course it would not apply. If we are referring to John 1:1-4 and the fulfillment of the law and being a new creation within Christ where there is neither Jew nor Gentile, Slave or free (Gal 3:28) then I perceive that probably that is the direction he is in.

Potentially we are getting hung up on semantics? I'll put an OT example and then I'll let it rest because no one asked me to mediate ;)

Rahab became part of the Jewish people. Was she a jew then when she lived among the Israelites? Ethnically no.
Or Ruth when she said "thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God" Ruth 1:16 KJV

Do you think this is an early representation? You also have the laws for sojourners (essentially quite similar).

I'm pretty sure this is what he means by being a "Jew" in heart or in Spirit. NOT according to the letter...



Personally I can't go any further than the above, because there is some warped stuff other there that I am uncertain of. However, I think a missionary to Israelites would look differently than one to gentiles and would speak in a different way. I think they both speak the same language, but on the surface it can look different. The "sermons" are different but the message is the same, it just means different things to different people. Rather, their own mind/spirit has a different way of processing it. The same way that someone's life could be all about the Lord's blessings and praise therein & another's could be suffering and sorrow and learning the depths of joy in a way that the other could not. Which to me illustrates "uniquely and wonderfully made" quite thoroughly. Does that help at all?
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
522
253
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I feel like I'm chasing my tail here. You said "And it is (true) Christians who are the true Jews " Then you say you agree that Christians are grafted in. So I ask again, which do you believe, Christians take the place of the Jews or they are grafted in?! It can't be both.
Are you stating that Jews cannot be Christians? If so, how can you say the statement that Christians are grafted into the vine (which is Christ) is mutually exclusive to the claim that Christians are true Jews (who are Abraham's descendants through faith), and receiving the true circumcision (which is performed by the Holy Spirit)? Scriptures claim both, and the scriptures cannot be broken.
 

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2019
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From what I can see of your disagreement is you think he is somehow proposing replacement theology. I cannot see that from his posts on the last two pages.

I really don't think this is what he is suggesting. To be grafted in to the true vine doesn't mean others are taken out. However there is much skepticism that the Lord's promises apply to the nation irrespective of whether they are truly HIS people or not.

A Christian (loosely defined) is an image bearer of Christ. Do you agree that this applies to both Jew and Gentile? Certainly, I'm sure you do. So where is the confusion?

Potentially it lies within your definition of "Jew". If we are referring to nationality then of course it would not apply. If we are referring to the religion itself in its modern day form then of course it would not apply. If we are referring to John 1:1-4 and the fulfillment of the law and being a new creation within Christ where there is neither Jew nor Gentile, Slave or free (Gal 3:28) then I perceive that probably that is the direction he is in.

Potentially we are getting hung up on semantics? I'll put an OT example and then I'll let it rest because no one asked me to mediate ;)

Rahab became part of the Jewish people. Was she a jew then when she lived among the Israelites? Ethnically no.
Or Ruth when she said "thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God" Ruth 1:16 KJV

Do you think this is an early representation? You also have the laws for sojourners (essentially quite similar).

I'm pretty sure this is what he means by being a "Jew" in heart or in Spirit. NOT according to the letter...



Personally I can't go any further than the above, because there is some warped stuff other there that I am uncertain of. However, I think a missionary to Israelites would look differently than one to gentiles and would speak in a different way. I think they both speak the same language, but on the surface it can look different. The "sermons" are different but the message is the same, it just means different things to different people. Rather, their own mind/spirit has a different way of processing it. The same way that someone's life could be all about the Lord's blessings and praise therein & another's could be suffering and sorrow and learning the depths of joy in a way that the other could not. Which to me illustrates "uniquely and wonderfully made" quite thoroughly. Does that help at all?
The natural branches are Messianic Jews and the grafted in ones are Gentile Believers, making us all one new man in Christ the true Vine.