why islam is evil

al-Ahad · Apr 15, 2015

None, I'm old school. The "beef" is now belonging to the "new school" of both sides since both communities seem to have turned to essentialising the other one's system of belief. What a shame!

Please don't ask me stupid questions if you wish to have a mature discussion okay. I can sit here and poke fun at the way you misunderstand and then go on to misrepresent the whole picture of what is going on here, but I won't do that. I honestly/genuinely did not come onto your website for a fight, I'm not that stupid to do so on a Christian forum ok, at least give me that much.

It seems to me that you have not only interpreted the txt for me, but you seem to have made up your mind already and have drawn a conclusion based on your own biased reading of the txt. I really don't think that is helpful or fair (on you) and me. It's no different than if I was to read your book whilst wearing my Muslim glasses, rather than reading with an open mind as free as possible from some preconceived ideas.

By the way, I was an agnostic at one stage in my life, and only came to Islam after a thorough examination of the books belonging to the three Abrahamic faiths.

I wish you nothing but the best, and peace for one and all irrespective of race colour or creed.

leonardronaldo · Apr 15, 2015

al-Ahad said:

What stupid questions. Prove that any of my post is wrong. I haven't seen you bringing anything to this forum, other than accusation of me being stupid, misunderstanding, misrepresenting, etc. I am not interpreting this aya by myself, I also read many big scholars acknowledged e.g. ibn abbas, jalalayn. I don't think any scholar would dare to add 'by allah's leave' to a part where there is no statement saying that. Please bring any evidence, otherwise, rather than accusing me of being stupid, misunderstanding and misrepresenting.

Make up my mind? Biased reading? If i permit you to drive my car, does that automatically mean you can drive a car? That's common sense ya akhi, permission to drive doesn't automatically mean you are able to drive. It goes for everything. It seems like you are the one who doesn't read with open mind from some preconceived ideas, since you don't even accept a general common sense. Thank you very much.

Thank you for the wish and for you not copying your prophet as narrated under sahih Muslim:

In his Sahih, Muslim recorded that Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said, Do not initiate greeting the Jews and Christians with the Salam, and when you pass by them on a road, force them to its narrowest path.

Source: Quran Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Returning the Salam, With a Better Salam

al-Ahad · Apr 16, 2015

leonardronaldo said:

It's really not in me to go out and call people stupid as you have accused me of doing with you. So with that, you have just given me a reason, with solid proof to actually call you a liar.

al-Ahad said:

Please don't lie, it's not Christian like ok. Deceit and guile yes, perhaps, (as has been practiced by St. Paul and recorded in your book here 1corinthians 19-23 and here 2 Corinthians 12:16), but straight out lying as you have committed, is not an act Jesus Christ (pbuh) would be pleased with I'm sure.

It's a real shame that our discussion (on anything) has to end before it has even begun.

I wish you nothing but peace brother, and may God Almighty bless you and protect you, and may He guide us all closer to the truth, ameen.

leonardronaldo · Apr 16, 2015

al-Ahad said:

Again you wish me peace, but didn't address my comment on the prohibition for muslims to initiate peace to Jews and Christians? And yet you call me a liar now? LOL

Lord have mercy.

I was truthfully asking you questions, and rather than responding to my questions, you replied by saying 'Please don't ask me stupid questions', therefore you accused my truthfulness to be stupid.

For your claim on Paul used deceit and guile, please elaborate more on that and bring the exact evidences that you have that he did.
While you are claiming Paul to have used deceit and guile, do you know who claims himself to be the best of deceivers? It is your god allah. Refer to Sura 3:54, 7:99, 8:30, 10:21, 13:42.
Now i guess you will call me a liar again after this, but please be noted that Jesus commanded Christians to let your yes be yes and no be no. On the other hand, it is your allah again who allows his followers to guard themselves (taqatoon, popular as taqiyaa) to say things that his heart dislike. Challenge me on that and let's see who is the liar actually.

al-Ahad · Apr 17, 2015

leonardronaldo said:

May God bless you brother. Yes, I have sincerely wished you peace twice already, and I'm about to make that three times, so may the peace and blessing of God Almighty be upon you. I've dropped three hints that you may get my message, which I have chosen to couch in the most polite way possible, will you not understand my implicit point then!

After all, you are dealing with a real person here and not some internet website. Would you rather you got your information from a live source or from some source that happens to only represent your own point of view? If you prefer the latter, then what have you done for yourself, but to allow those sources to make up your own mind for you. That is utterly pointless, not to mention irrational in my opinion. Can't you see my point?

It's not something I'm proud of I must admit, but my call was based on facts rather than illusions. I have absolutely nothing against your person since I really don't know you, so I would have no reason to call you a liar had you not provided me with a solid reason and proof to do so. Even then, I still say I'm not somehow jumping with joy over my call. So again I ask you, please be careful in choosing your words before you hit the post button.

Trust me, I'm not laughing. This is a very serious topic we're discussing here, so I don't think a LOL of any shape or form would be the appropriate response to what I have said, unless ridicule and mocking was your intention. I didn't come here to mock or be mocked by anyone. My intention was simply to respond to what I had disagreement with, no more and no less.

You asked me two questions, one was more stupid than the other. Here were your questions:

I'd say stupid question whether asked in truthfulness or not, wouldn't you agree now that you've had some time to reflect on it (if you did that is and if you're genuinely taking our discussion seriously). But again, I see a "lol" after the question, indicating to me something other, or somewhat less than someone asking a question "truthfully". Interpersonal communication is my specialty, so yes; I can be a bit (or a lot) more analytical than the next guy. I don't apologies for that, as I expect a certain level of maturity and respect between the two parties having a discussion. My aim here is to get closer to you intellectually, hence I'm reasoning with you in order for us to have a conversion of minds, (again) based on reason rather than emotions. Are you willing to do that brother?

Your second question to me, which I also considered to be of a stupid nature was this:

I honestly don't think I need to say anything here, it's self-explanatory.

Finally, why would you turn to and use what you would consider to be a false testimony brought by a false prophet? You don't believe in it yet you're prepared to use it as your own witness against me! How would that stack up in a court of law? You bring in a false witness, who you know and believe was not at the scene of (whatever), and you leave your own witnesses who you believe were at the scene. How does that even begin to make sense is beyond me brother. I'm willing to hear you explain your position though, and the reason/s you rely on to legitimise your usage of (whom you consider to be) a false witness. I'm all ears (seriously).
Everyone thinks they are right in their faith and beliefs. Being with people and groups with similar faiths further strengthens people’s faiths and they see it as “right” even though logical reasoning and argument sometimes can’t explain it all. That’s human psychology.

Ameen to that. Without His Grace and Mercy we're all doomed. Would you agree with me on that brother?

leonardronaldo · Apr 17, 2015

al-Ahad said:

1. I am not addressing you as a muslim, brother. I trust you are much better than your god's teaching. But when we are talking about Islam, I can't take my interpretation nor your interpretation, but we must go to great scholar's interpretation, one of which is Ibn Khathir. Can't you see my point?

2. So I must be careful in choosing words, and only you can accuse others to be liar? Subhanallah

3. The LOL is deserved, to laugh out on your hypocrisy. You didn't even address Ibn Khathir, most likely because you cannot reject Ibn Khathir, and yet try to present yourself as peaceful and there is nothing in islam that forbids muslims to be friends truthfully and/or even initiate peace (Salaam) to Jews and Christians. Hypocrisy at its best.

4. You, again accusing my questions to be stupid. In addition, on all the evidences, quranic verses, and great scholar's tafseer on quran, that I have posted, not a single one that you even dare to discuss with. Intellectual? Maybe you believe this is an example of intellectual discussion: Sura 3:61: Then whoever argues with you about it after [this] knowledge has come to you - say, "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves, then supplicate earnestly [together] and invoke the curse of Allah upon the liars [among us]." Shall we do that? lol --> this lol is for your god allah

5. Again, now you are crying because I bring all the verses, tafsir and other islamic references. As I said above, Islam is worth to be exposed. When Hitler was defeated, everybody is analyzing and exposing the filth of mein kampf. Again, hypocrisy is all that you showed since you cry like a baby for me bringing all references, while you were also quoting the guile and lie of Paul in the first and second Corinthians. So shall I cry to you like you just did to me rather than ask you to elaborate more on that and bring the exact evidences you have that he did exactly like you claim?

6. I am afraid your allah only has grace and mercy to muslims. would you agree with me on that brother?

FridaysChild · Apr 17, 2015

AgeofKnowledge said:

I know it's difficult AJJ to wake up and discover most everything you think you know is just wrong but that's the situation you now find yourself in as my last post briefly demonstrated. The question now is how are you going to respond to it. Are you going to simply lash out at everyone around you or begin putting in the time and effort to learn what you need to know.

The truth is that you do have a great deal to learn. Most of what you're stating simply isn't true and your posts show that what you don't know, and which is critical to a correct understanding, is enormous. Lashing out at me, pretending like you're schooled in the principles of logic, and repeating things that aren't true will not make you a more informed person.

For that, you've got to put in some work... which I already have over many years and continue to do.

Now might be a good time to point out that your understanding of my resume is seriously flawed. But then you never asked because, for some reason, you think you know everything. It's true I did earn two master's degrees and a bachelor of science degree with A averages as well as another degree with highest honors and numerous science, technology, and theological certifications. In fact, I went to college for over twenty years at local and state universities both full time during the day and later at night after work. And yes, even later, I did distance learning as well due to the constraints a demanding career placed on me. Tell me friend, have you ever run an entire department in a large company AND finished a master's degree in your "spare" time with an A average like I did? I didn't think so.

But more importantly, I put in the time and hard work to educate myself far beyond that. I carefully read thousands of scholarly books over the years and researched many many topics. Before the Internet and the ability to so easily obtain materials, I read out the entire sections of more than one public library which are relevant to this discussion. Since then, much much more. My own library is extensive. And, my IQ test is well above average. And, I took the time to chase down and develop online relationships with known scholars in various fields which became relationships that I learned even more from. Your characterizations of me and my competencies are as misplaced as your false assertions about most everything you touch.

Your assertion that "Christianity is also known for a history of slavery and sexual oppression" is just another example of your ignorance. Slavery was a human institution from antiquity that every historical people group engaged in regardless of their religious worldview. And the conditions of slaves deviated materially throughout human history from people taken against their will and grossly misused to bond servants who voluntarily became slaves because their situations were better as a wealthy slaves than as a poor free persons.

Of course, like yourself, I find the entire idea of slavery repugnant. I'd rather die on my feet poor than be a rich slave. But that doesn't change the fact that slavery was a human institution practiced all over the world throughout human history.

What needs to be stated is that when effective moral opposition to slavery arose: Christian theology was essential to both. Not Islam which fully condones slavery and not atheism which has no inherent moral theology against the practice (as we saw in the 20th century under state atheism).

It was on the basis of the teachings of Jesus Christ (have you read them?) that Christians asserted slavery was sinful and must be abolished. Although it has been fashionable to deny it in our post Christian culture, antislavery doctrines began to appear in Christian theology soon after the decline of Rome and were accompanied by the eventual disappearance of slavery in all but the fringes of Christian Europe (not to be confused with the brisk slave trade Muslims imposed on Europe before Reconquista).

When Europeans subsequently instituted slavery in the New World, they did so over strenuous papal opposition. In fact, Pope Paul III issued two bulls against slavery imposing the penalty of excommunication on anyone, regardless of their "dignity, state, condition, or grade... who in any way may presume to reduce said Indians to slavery or despoil them of their goods."

Overseas Catholic missionaries fought vigorously against the practice on behalf of both Africans and Indians. On April 22, 1639 Pope Urban VIII (1623 to 1644), at the request of the Jesuits of Paraguay, issued a bull reaffirming the ruling by "our predecessor Paul III" that those who reduce others to slavery were subject to excommunication.

Eventually, the Congregation of the Holy Office (the Roman Inquisition) even took up the matter. On March 20, 1686, it ruled in the form of questions and answers as follows:

It is asked:

Whether it is permitted to capture by force and deceit Blacks and other natives who have harmed no one?

Answer: no.

Whether it is permitted to buy, sell or make contracts in their respect Blacks or other natives who have harmed no one and been made captives by force of deceit?

Answer: no.

Whether the possessors of Blacks and other natives who have harmed no one and been captured by force or deceit, are not held to set them free?

Answer: yes.

Whether the captors, buyers and possessors of Blacks and other natives who have harmed no one and who have been captured by force or deceit are not held to make compensation to them?

Answer: yes.

Nothing ambiguous here. The problem wasn't that the Church failed to condemn slavery; it was that few heard and most of them did not listen. In this era, popes had little or no influence over the Spanish and the Portuguese since at that time the Spanish ruled most of Italy. Consider that in 1527, under the leadership of Charles V, Rome was even sacked.

If the pope had little influence in Spain or Portugal, he had next to none in their New World colonies, except indirectly through the work of the religious orders which worked tirelessly to counteract what political nation states were engaging in for profit. In fact, it became illegal in colonies to even publish papal decrees because of their strong opposition to slavery.

Finally, the abolition of New World slavery was initiated and achieved by Christian activists. Now, I want you to go to your public library friend and read chapter 4 'God's Justice: The Sin of Slavery' in 'For the Glory of God' by Dr. Rodney Stark as an introduction to everything you have yet to learn.

And "sexual oppression" can mean a number of things. If you're talking about discrimination against women, it's not in the New Testament. If you're talking about God's holiness requiring absolute monogamy in order to receive His blessing for sex (which humans are designed for) that's called God's plan for human sex and family. God's normative morality isn't "sexual oppression" to moral people who love God and His holiness and who, along with their children, reap the benefit of moral nuclear families. No, immoral people are the ones that find morality to be "sexual oppression." For example, we don't let people diddle little children friend but classifying that as "sexual oppression" really misses the mark.

Wisdom demands that you began qualifying what I'm sharing with you. My advice is set the anger aside and start reading. You've only been exposed to the tip of the iceberg of what you really should know in your short lifetime. Peace.

You've sown wisdom.

I'm reaping it.

I come along 2 weeks after you've written this and find several wisdom nuggets.

thank you

al-Ahad · Apr 18, 2015

leonardronaldo said:

This is not so. Furthermore, my God is your God, as God does not change but our perception of Him does, as does our understanding of His message. At the end of the day, you have your religion and I have mine. Taking all of that into consideration, God is God, and the fault lies with us and not God. At least I'd have to be humble enough to say that, lest I become a victim to my own arrogance of who God is....or is not.

Yes most definitely I see your point, yet I totally disagree with it. You are talking about Islam, and I'm listening. I haven't even begun to talk about Islam except to say please do not essentialise it etc. Ibn Kathir is a human being, and as such, is not infallible. That is not to suggest that the man was right or wrong, that is not where I'm going with this. I'm only explaining to you that if I understand something by myself, I do not have to seek further understanding of it. A proof of something does not require more proof of the same thing. I am not more knowledgeable nor am I wiser than Ibn Kathir, but Ibn Kathir is not the Qur'an, but one of the scholars of Islam.

By the way, it's Kathir not Khathir. Thanks.

The Qur'an has two types of verses within it, clear and precise verses (where interpretation is not needed), and the somewhat ambiguous and allegorical type of verses. Those whose hearts are perverse; follow the unclear statements in pursuit of their own mischievous goals by interpreting them in a way that will suit their own purpose. This is basically what we're seeing on this forum and on many other websites similar to it. So it's really nothing new what has been going on, except that now the social media has been added to the existing methods of old. The goal remains the same though, that's a fact I and other Muslims are very much aware of.

I've already covered this issue, please read again for more clarification if need be. If I accuse, I do so with the addition of providing the evidence that would substantiate my claim. I don't accuse for the sake of accusation, and most definitely not without providing proof. Subhanallah? I find that hypocritical in the extreme coming from someone who does not believe in the God he's supposed to be glorifying don't you? So why do you do it? I'm interested to know. Is it to mock and ridicule? Sounds more like something I should hear coming from an atheist instead of a believer as you claim yourself to be. I expect more from you, as you’d expect from me, both claiming to be believers in the Almighty.

I did my best to implicitly tell you that what you have been presenting me was wrong, by the way I was greeting you and conducting myself with you. However you did not pick up on that, and perhaps that was my fault. I do apologise if you thought I was evading your question. I was simply hoping that I didn't need to resort to pointing out your misunderstanding and misrepresentation of the facts in an explicit manner, but obviously (and for some reason), you've chosen to ignore my last implicit gesture regarding your fallacious accusation of how Muslims are supposed to not initiate peace greetings etc. What do you think I was doing all along when I initiated peaceful greetings upon you? Did you think I was being hypocritical? Did you think that I was a better Muslim than Islam itself? No brother, what you are doing now is what Muslim extremists do, and that is to use a tunnel vision method of radically interpreting Islam to serve their agenda. So now I have to deal with two opposing groups, united in their understanding and interpretation of Islam, namely the born again Christians, and the Muslim extremists. Don't you just envy my predicament

!

I'll entertain your query re the greeting of non-Muslims. This whole issue was instigated and came about because of what some Jews used to say to the messenger of Islam (pbuh). Instead of greeting with the greeting of peace ("As-Salamu), they used to greet with a greeting of death or poison (`As-Samu) instead. Unless you're listening carefully, you couldn't tell the difference. Hence, this whole greeting issue came about. Now if you choose to disagree with me by saying no, then that would be your prerogative mate, and you'd be welcomed to join forces with the Muslim extremists in that regard. I, I on the other hand choose not to take such a radical stance. I choose to looking at the overall picture, instead of applying a myopic vision type of an attitude concerning this issue. The majority of the Muslims/scholars agree with my stance, few don't. Based on what I've read so far regarding Islam on your forum, I honestly wouldn't blame them. Please don't forget, you're dealing with human nature here instead of robotic machines devoid of emotions okay.

Now I'm crying? Please lift up your manners mate, I have not disrespected you. I called you a liar because you lied about me, period!

You bring the verses, the tafsir, and Islamic references you say. Do I say thank you or do I educate you now? I'll think I'll do both. So first, thank you for all your effort in providing the material you have provided. Now it's education time ok, so please pay close attention if you're at all interested in learning something about Islam. Before I start though, I'd like to say thank you for your, (and all of your friends' efforts) in doing your best to expose Islam for the “evil” religion that you all think it is. The more you do that, the more positive the net effect seems to be concerning this "evil" Deen.

Islam's arguments are based on intellectual reasoning and rational, something (I know) the Christians are not too fond of when discussing religion with a Muslim. Please don't hold it against us, as we don't hold it against you for using whatever means necessary to spread your faith. This is not a physical war with a sword, yet it is the sword of the intellect that pierces through the hearts and minds of men that is the driver behind people's reversion to this Deen. That is why Islam, (despite all your misrepresentations of it), is gaining grounds, no matter how much the unbelievers might hate it.

Now regarding education. You are in no position to use the Qur'an to prove a point against me unless...

I'll continue with the unless bit in a sec. First (and again), I need to remind you that you are using a false witness to prove your case. If you say no, and that you're simply cross-examining my own witness. To that I say, I have not produced a witness in order for you to cross-examine. In other words, you are the one bringing me my own witness, and you are the one cross-examining it. No wonder this false witness is saying what you want to hear and prove, can't you see that? Think about it for a minute or two.

Let's move on. I will bring you one verse and only one verse from the Holy Qur'an, since you're so adamant to using it against me, even though you don't accept it as a revelation from God Almighty. Verse (2:285) - do you believe in part of the book and disbelieve in part? OR: do you believe in part of the book and reject the rest? So rather than accuse you here, I'd ask you instead: do you believe in any part of the book or no part at all? And if you do believe in part, I'm afraid you cannot do so according to this verse, i.e. it's either all or nothing. There's no pick and choose when it comes to the Glorious Qur'an. So going to all this effort to present me with Qur'anic verses and sayings related to a man you don't even believe to be a genuine prophet of God, is not the way to go about having a dialogue with a Muslim.

No I don't agree with you on that. My allah you say? Are you aware of what Christian Arabs, numbering about 20,000,000, and some Arab Jews call God? Allah, that's what! Again I remind you, it's the same Allah, not a different Allah. Our understanding/perception of Him differs based on the understanding of our books and background. So please ask if you need something explained, instead of doing what the Muslim extremist do when they read the book or the sayings of the prophet (pbuh). Any fool can read something into the txt that was never part of the txt, and then twist the meanings to suite his own particular agenda, instead of applying God's Will.

leonardronaldo · Apr 18, 2015

al-Ahad said:

1. No. MY God is not Allah of the quran. I can assure you on that.

2. 'Ibn Kathir is a human being' Please bring any other muslim scholars who deny ibn kathir, at least on that one issue that I discussed? Challenge. Thank you for correcting me on his name. But still I don't see any clear refutation nor rejection of ibn kathir here, i guess you would be afraid to reject him. I see.
'Those whose hearts are perverse; follow the unclear statements in pursuit of their own mischievous goals by interpreting them in a way that will suit their own purpose' Are you claiming that ibn kathir was perverse? Or you are claiming that his statements were unclear? Well, the statement 'do not initiate salam to the Jews and Christians' is from your prophet muhammad, not ibn kathir. Ibn kathir is just connecting that sayings of muhammad to a certain verse of the quran. Duh.
'I and other Muslims' which other Muslims do you mean? Hizbut Tahrir? Daula Islamiya? Al-Qaeda? Boko Haram? Taliban? Ikhwanul Muslimin? Salafi? or those who will hold to Ibn Kathir much more than his own interpretation on the quran?

3. allah's teachings in the quran deserve to be exposed, as i have mentioned clearly. of course the subhanallah word doesn't mean to glorify allah at all, you bet. Since I believe in the Almighty God, i need to test all spirits and teachings. Including Islam. And unfortunately Islam's fruits are evil, and therefore need to be reproof, rebuked and exhorted.

4. 'I have to deal with two opposing groups, united in their understanding and interpretation of Islam, namely the born again Christians, and the Muslim extremists.' Nah, you will never brave enough to challenge the muslim extremists. I challenge you a simple one, oppose the Hizbut Tahrir in Australia! Until then, talk is talk, muslims are brothers and when the time is come for all these 'muslims extremist' that you refer to come to try to invade Australia or try to hurt some christians in Australia, the muslims will either cheer the 'muslims extremist' or look away to save his neck. Subhanallah. And now you claim like you are the victim of Extremists and Christians? Very nice of you.
Finally you answer me. So if the Jews were the ones who practicing it, why your prophet muhammad says do not initiate peace to the Jews and Christians? What did Christians do so that your muhammad commanded it to Christians as well? and don't forget the other parts of his statement, 'and when you pass by them on a road, force them to its narrowest path.' Welcome to a peaceful response from a champion of human rights, muhammad!

5. No answer to my response number 4. Okay, I take that means you will not want to practice the 'intellectual' argument method stipulated by allah. No problem for me.

6. 'Islam's arguments are based on intellectual reasoning and rational,' too funny LOL. sorry I couldn't handle it.
'This is not a physical war with a sword,' of course your prophet muhammad never use any swords to propagate islam.
Sahih Muslim Hadith 4681: Narrated byAbdullah ibn Qays; The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: Surely, the gates of Paradise are under the shadows of the swords. A man in a shabby condition got up and said: Abu Musa, did you hear the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) say this? He said: Yes. (The narrator said): He returned to his friends and said: I greet you (a farewell greeting). Then he broke the sheath of his sword, threw it away, advanced with his (naked) sword towards the enemy and fought (them) with it until he was slain.
Poor Abu Musa, he should have heard what al-Ahad stated rather than what muhammad stated.
''ll continue with the unless bit in a sec. First (and again), I need to remind you that you are using a false witness to prove your case. If you say no, and that you're simply cross-examining my own witness. To that I say, I have not produced a witness in order for you to cross-examine. In other words, you are the one bringing me my own witness, and you are the one cross-examining it. No wonder this false witness is saying what you want to hear and prove, can't you see that? Think about it for a minute or two.' False. I have challenged you to bring any other great scholars to refute what I posted. I didn't interpret any of the references I posted by myself. I either post the aya with a tafsir from great and historic scholars or bring the hadith as it is. No other interpretation that I put in. So you have lied in describing me to misinterpret, since I never did any interpretation to begin with.

7. Man, are you changing the quran? Why don't post the verse as it is. Sura Al Baqara aya 285: The Apostle believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in God, His angels, His books, and His apostles. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His apostles." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys." sounds different than what you have posted? Of course lol, it is your rasool muhammad who was discussed here and since he is not my rasool, you can't blame the obligation on me. The obligation to follow your rasool is on you. I challenge you, again and again, to claim that you believe all verses in the quran and will be willingly ready to fulfill any of allah's commandment in all verses. Challenge! Do you dare? There's no pick and choose, eh? I challenge you to claim that expressly.

8. You don't need to bring out Arab Jews and Christians into the motion. You should have also added Christians in my country and Malaysia to that list, that will make it 50 millions using the term 'Allah'. But is that what I am trying to say? I am not saying the term 'Allah' is wrong whatsoever, I myself believe there is no great reason for any Christians to use the term, but if they do, that would still be ok. God Almighty understands them, since He is the Omniscient. And that is the reason why I used the term 'your allah', meaning, the allah of the quran.
Again, I remind you, allah of the quran is not the God of the Bible. Which one do you prefer for me to prove this to you, verses from the bible or from the quran? It is clear cut different. Duh!

al-Ahad · Apr 20, 2015

The verse I meant to quote was 2:85 and not 2:285.

In any case, I'm very happy and at peace with God as He presents Himself in His book the Holy Qur'an. There is 100% clarity as to who He is as He has described Himself. Not a God-man, nor a man-God. I believe God is God and man is man, and no matter how hard you may try to combine these two different natures together into one, you'd never be able to do it, ever! By "you", I am not referring to you personally, but rather to a rational and a logical human being. If Islam is evil as you and your brothers and sisters in faith have been claiming it to be, then who am I to change your conviction! Believe what you will and I believe what I will. To you your religion and to me mine.

You have insulted my faith without me insulting yours, that is something you would have to deal with. I am over your childish and extremely rude and disrespectful behaviour and (perhaps) your enthusiasm for point scoring. I did not come here for a debate with a Christian as there is no debate to be had. Attacking or putting your faith down by mocking and ridicule is something that has been done and is being done by many as I write these words. I repeat, I did not come here to do that. I found this on the net and thought you might like to see how a Muslim thinks of what you have to offer us, and why we're not accepting it, but rather, keeping a firm hold on what we already have. So as the brother beautifully thought and presented it, that on the day of judgment, we will both stand before and be asked by God, both Muslims and Christians:

Muslim: If I stand in front of God, and God says to me, "why did you not believe, that I became a man, and I died on the cross for your sins? And why did you not believe that the bible was my revealed word?" I would say Oh Allah, You are the Lord and the Creator of the heavens and the earth, You're the One without beginning and without end. How could I even think, let alone believe, that you became a man and died!? And how could I believe a book, riddled with contradictions and discrepancies, was your word, when you are the All knowing Creator of the heavens and the earth?

If God takes me and puts me in hell, I will never believe for one second, that I was treated with justice. I will never understand why, or for what possible reason did I deserve to be punished for glorifying the Creator of the heavens and the earth...but oh

Christian: When you stand in front of Allah, and He says to you, how, and could you say that I, the Creator of the heavens and the earth became a mortal man? How could you claim that I became a being who was circumcised, a being that was born of a woman, and that died? How could you believe that a book, that had so many contradictions and discrepancies was my word?

When God takes you and puts you in hell, you'll know, that you deserve to be there.

I won't be coming back to your forum, however I'll leave you with this clear cut chapter of the Holy Qur'an where God is describing Himself to men.

Surah Ikhlas (Holy Qur'an 112:1-4) is:
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD][SIZE=-1]Say: He is Allah, the One and Only! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him.

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]That is the God I believe in, and not a God-man type of a God. I know, a Christian seems to have a reply to anything, no matter what, yet has a huge problem with Ibn Kathir. Now that in itself is a miracle!

Like I said, say what you like, about me and Islam as a whole, I have seriously lost interest in dealing with your attitude (when I don't have to).

May God Almighty guide us all closer to the truth...ameen.[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Bowman · Apr 20, 2015

al-Ahad said:

To say that Islam is, is to resort to using essentialism. What you are now doing is essentialising Islam to be this or to be that. Ascribing a set of attributes which are necessary to Islam's identity and function. Sir, Islam is everything and then some more, no less than Christianity is and no less than Judaism is and every ism is! Now you can use the "why" question if you wish, and I'd be happy to inform you that Islam is people, and people have been created by God with all different attributes intrinsically built. So yes, you have the evil (as your title have suggested), and you have the generous and kind, the good and the bad. This goes for all religions and non religions.

To say why such and such a thing is evil or not, you must have done some extensive studies on the subject yes? I can't think of anything worse than evil. After what I've written above, are you now ascribing evilness to all Muslims or only some? What is your criteria for good and evil Sir? Judge not, that ye be not judged...

Have a great day.

Islam is the world's largest Christian cult.

Bowman · Apr 20, 2015

al-Ahad said:

112.1 Say: "He, “allah”, alone.” (The god “allah”)

112.2 “The erecting of “allah”.” (“allah” the idol)

112.3 “He begets not, and he is not begotten.” (Idol worship of the god “allah”)

112.4 "Andwas not for him comparable,alone.” (Idol worship of the god “allah”)

leonardronaldo · Apr 21, 2015

al-Ahad said:

1. Sura 2:85, I see, but in their tafseers, Al-Jalalayn refers the book to the Book (Al-Kitab). Ibn Abbas even refer it as the Scripture, and Ibn Khatir goes further saying ... in their Books... the rulings of the Tawrah. Why do you think those 3 great sunni scholars interpret it like that? Because Allah was referring to the Jews back then lol so if you refer the book as the quran, you should ask yourself whether the quran has been compiled as a book by then and if yes, whether the Jews mentioned in such verse believe in part of that compiled book of quran?

2. 'There is 100% clarity as to who He is' LOL yea right 100% clarity.

3. 'I believe God is God and man is man, and no matter how hard you may try to combine these two different natures together into one, you'd never be able to do it, ever!' Of course, because your god is impotent and is a false god. The Almighty God can do everything without limitation, as He is Omnipotent. Another question shall be asked, so allah can't become a man but he can become fire before musa (in sura Ta-ha)? mashaallah

4. 'To you your religion and to me mine.' This verse was revealed when muhammad was weak, and accordingly abrogated by strong revelation like sura 9:5, 9:29, etc etc. when muhammad has army and therefore stronger. Challenge?

5. 'I did not come here for a debate with a Christian as there is no debate to be had.' So shall we rather apply the suggestion of allah in sura 3:61? LOL

6. "Muslim: If I stand in front of God, and God says to me, "why did you not believe, that I became a man, and I died on the cross for your sins? And why did you not believe that the bible was my revealed word?" I would say Oh Allah, You are the Lord and the Creator of the heavens and the earth, You're the One without beginning and without end. How could I even think, let alone believe, that you became a man and died!? And how could I believe a book, riddled with contradictions and discrepancies, was your word, when you are the All knowing Creator of the heavens and the earth?If God takes me and puts me in hell, I will never believe for one second, that I was treated with justice. I will never understand why, or for what possible reason did I deserve to be punished for glorifying the Creator of the heavens and the earth...but oh"
I challenge you to prove the bold statement above! Parts of your quran were eaten by goat, burnt and filtered by uthman, etc etc! Challenge! The underlined statement above shows how pitiful the understanding of muslims, and most people in the world. People do not realize how sinful they are and how pity their sin is before a Holy and Just God. If the judge in a court free a thief or a corrupt official or a murderer just because he later on did good deeds such as giving some of the money to many masjids, should a just judge let him go and say 'you have done many good deeds, i will sweep your evil deeds under the rug', what will you say to such judge? How can more just be the Justice of God? But again, your allah is a false god and therefore he does not have any justice whatsoever. Furthermore, the good deeds and evil deeds according to your allah is weird and crazy. support jihad, becomes mujahideen is favoured more by allah as better deeds than those who sits back at home praising and praying to allah. what a lunatic god.

7. "Christian: When you stand in front of Allah, and He says to you, how, and could you say that I, the Creator of the heavens and the earth became a mortal man? How could you claim that I became a being who was circumcised, a being that was born of a woman, and that died? How could you believe that a book, that had so many contradictions and discrepancies was my word?When God takes you and puts you in hell, you'll know, that you deserve to be there." Easy, i will say 'You stupid allah, if you claim to be God, you should be able to do everything. Secondly, you stupid allah, in your quran sura 4:157, it is you yourself who made people become Christians since it you yourself who said ... so it was made to appear to them..., so it your scheme to make it appear to the people that Christ was crucified, but then only 600 years later you sent an illiterate arab to correct them? yea right LOL. About contradictions and discrepancies, you stupid allah, your quran is full of contradictions, discrepancies, and even some parts were eaten by goat and burnt by uthman. Did you not know that? LOL. Now it is my turn, allah, you stupid, why did you promise eternal sex with 72 virgins and river of wines in your janna? is it las vegas or what? Moreover, you favour the mujahideen more than those who sits at home, why is that allah? Why does a mujahid have more chance to enter your las vegas than other muslims? Why oh why? LOL'

8. Of course you do not want to come back and debate, because I have just remembered this verse:
Sura Al-Maida'
101 O ye who believe! ask not questions about things which if made plain to you may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Qur'an is being revealed they will be made plain to you: Allah will forgive those: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Forbearing. 102 Some people before you did ask such questions and on that account lost their faith.

Just to clarify, I don't have a problem with Ibn Kathir since I don't even believe in the quran, but I know, as you have also admitted, Ibn Kathir is one of the best and historical scholar in Islam. However, it was you who were trying to deny Ibn Kathir, and fleeing from responding to my further questions on Ibn Kathir.

I will pray for you so that the Holy Spirit will show His truth to you, by His Grace, and free you from the deception of allah. amiin.

AgeofKnowledge · Apr 22, 2015

Report finds that Yazidi girls as young as eight are being raped as sex slaves by Muslims who defended the practice because it was fully legitimized in orthodox Islam: Yazidi girls as young as eight raped as Isil sex slaves, finds report - Telegraph

leonardronaldo · Apr 24, 2015

AgeofKnowledge said:

No way AoK, how come Islam legitimize such practice?
A muslim fatwa I have read does not agree with your opinion. Please see it, the fatwa give complete references. Ruling on having intercourse with a slave woman when one has a wife - islamqa.info
With regard to age, Allah has revealed the following clearly in Sura Al-Talaq (Divorce):

4 Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses for them the prescribed period if ye have any doubt is three months and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs) their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah He will make their path easy.

AgeofKnowledge · May 9, 2015

Yes way leonardronaldo. Both Islamic epistemology and world history clearly demonstrate the practice of female sexual slavery and that of male castration.

Even liberal Wikipedia gets this right stating, "In Islamic law (Sharia), Ma malakat aymanukum is the term for slaves or captives of war. According to Muslim theologians, it is lawful for male masters to have sexual relations with female captives and slaves. The purchase of female slaves for sex was lawful from the perspective of Islamic law, and this was the most common motive for the purchase of slaves throughout Islamic history" referencing the Encyclopedia of Islam by P.J. Bearman, Th. Bianquis, C.E. Bosworth, E. van Donzel and W.P. Heinrichs (ed.). "Abd". Brill Academic Publishers. ISSN 1573-3912.

As the preeminent Socio-historian Dr. Rodney Stark states in 'For the Glory of God':

"Islamic slavery was overwhelmingly of the 'consumer' variety. Early experiments with the use of slave labor on plantations resulted in bloody slave rebellions, and the practice was discontinued-large peasant populations in the agricultural areas of Islam also discouraged the reliance on field slaves.

There were some elite military units composed entirely of slaves, mainly whites of Christian origins obtained in childhood. But household servants made up the bulk of Islamic slaves, and a substantial number also became concubines.

Consequently, "female slaves were in much greater demand than males, "and very large numbers of male slaves, adult males as well as boys, had their penis and testicles cut off at the time they were captured or purchased.

This resulted in extremely high mortality, but the financial losses entailed were more than offset by the premium price paid for eunuchs. Since all forms of mutilation were prohibited by Islamic law, various "nonbelievers" such as Coptic Christians and Jews were used to perform the actual surgery, but usually under the direct supervision of Islamic slave-traders.

Muslims had no particular preference for black slaves and for centuries maintained huge numbers of white slaves. As Islamic forces were pushed out of Europe, Africa became the major source of Islamic slaves."

Many times I have caught practicing Muslims blatantly lying to me about this in accordance with Taqiyya and Kitman but always ex-Muslims have been honest about it.

pwrnJC · May 9, 2015

Let me try to fully understand this please. You are looking for justification, in a CHRISTIAN chatroom, for your personal decision to become a muslim/islamic? You boast of coming to your decision after reading 'books of the Abrahamic faiths"? You claim you were formerly an agnostic? Okay..so what exactly are you expecting here, from anyone? In like manner, I can share with you how I came to know JESUS CHRIST, personally, and have witnessed many awesome signs and wonders, healings, deliverances, etc...but would it win you over to CHRISTIANITY? You and I know that historically speaking, the word CHRISTAIN leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Can I go into an ISLAMIC chatroom and post my reasons for becoming a CHRISTIAN, being a former atheist? What would be the purpose?

leonardronaldo · May 9, 2015

pwrnJC said:

No, he was responding to my post, as you can see. I guess justification of one's reasoning shall be ok, as long as one is being honest. Or is it still not ok? Maybe an admin can enlighten on this. He was not honest, though, with his posts.

I don't know if he was an agnostic, but from his posts, it is most likely that he can't have finished neither the bible nor the quran.

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