“About The Great Tribulation”

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Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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"This generation" means the generation present when Jesus was speaking
Not necessarily. It can also mean "race" or "family" depending on context. In the context of the Olivet Discourse, and given the fact that the Jews would be dispersed in 70 AD and forgotten as a nation until 1948, "this generation" meant "this Jewish race or family". Israel would be a nation when all the things mentioned in Mt 24 were being fulfilled in the future. [Note: Thayer's should have put this under 2b, not 3]

Strong's Concordance (1074)
genea: race, family, generation
Original Word: γενεά, ᾶς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: genea
Phonetic Spelling: (ghen-eh-ah')
Definition: race, family, generation
Usage: a generation; if repeated twice or with another time word, practically indicates infinity of time.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 1074: γενεά

γενεά, γενεάς, ἡ (ΓΑΝΩ, γίνομαι (crf. Curtius, p. 610)); the Sept. often for דּור; in Greek writings fromHomer down;
1. a begetting, birth, nativity: Herodotus 3, 33;Xenophon, Cyril 1, 2, 8, etc.; (others make the collective sense the primary significance, see Curtius as above).
2. passively, that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family;
a. properly, as early as Homer; equivalent to מִשְׁפָּחַה,Genesis 31:3, etc. σῴζειν Ρ᾽αχαβην καί τήν γενεάναὐτῆς, Josephus, Antiquities 5, 1, 5. the several ranks in a natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy: Matthew 1:17 (ἑβδόμῃ γενεά οὗτος ἐστινἀπό τοῦ πρώτου, Philo, vit. Moys. i. § 2).
b. metaphorically, a race of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character; and especially in a bad sense a perverse race: Matthew 17:17; Mark 9:19; Luke 9:41; Luke 16:8; (Acts 2:40).
3. the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 1:48 (πᾶσαι αἱγενεαί); ; Philippians 2:15; used especially of the Jewish race living at one and the same period: Matthew 11:16;Matthew 12:39, 41f, 45; Matthew 16:4; Matthew 23:36;Mark 8:12, 38; Luke 11:29f, 32, 50; Luke 17:25; Acts 13:36; Hebrews 3:10; ἄνθρωποι τῆς γενεάς ταύτης,Luke 7:31; ἄνδρες τῆς γενεάς ταύτης, Luke 11:31; τήνδέ γενεάν αὐτοῦ τίς διηγήσεται, who can describe the wickedness of the present generation, Acts 8:33(from Isaiah 53:8 the Sept.) (but cf. Meyer, at the passage).
4. an age (i. e. the time ordinarily occupied by each successive generation), the space of from 30 to 33 years (Herodotus 2, 142, et al.; Heraclitus in Plutarch, def. orac. c. 11), or ὁ χρόνος, ἐν ᾧ γεννωντα παρέχει τόνἐξ αὐτοῦ γεγεννημένον ὁ γεννησας (Plutarch, the passage cited); in the N. T. common in plural: Ephesians 3:5 (Winers Grammar, § 31, 9 a.; Buttmann, 186 (161));παρῳχημέναις γενεαῖς in ages gone by, Acts 14:16;ἀπό τῶν γενεῶν for ages, since the generations began, Colossians 1:26; ἐκ γενεῶν ἀρχαίων from the generations of old, from ancient times down, Acts 15:21;εἰς γενεάς γενεῶν unto generations of generations, through all ages, forever (a phrase which assumes that the longer ages are made up of shorter; see αἰών, 1 a.):Luke 1:50 R L (דּורִים לְדור, Isaiah 51:8); εἰς γενεάς καίγενεάς unto generations and generations, ibid. T TrWH equivalent to וָדור לְדור, Psalm 89:2; Isaiah 34:17; very often in the Sept.; (add, εἰς πάσας τάς γενεάςτοῦ αἰῶνος τῶν αἰώνων, Ephesians 3:21, cf. Ellicott at the passage) (γενεά is used of a century in Genesis 15:16, cf. Knobel at the passage, and on the senses of the word see the full remarks of Keim, iii. 206 (v. 245 English translation)).
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Thanks Ahwatukee...
I didn't say that it did. So far every single person who has responded to me has misinterpreted what I wrote, and most of them have proven my point while failing to grasp it.
Did you not refer us to the destruction of the temple in regards to the great tribulation period? I'm pretty certain that is what you wrote. You said that if one didn't include the destruction of the temple that it was incomplete or something of that nature.

The destruction of the temple was a response from Jesus when the disciples brought His attention to the temple buildings, which is where He replied, "do you see all of these things? Not one stone will be left upon another, everyone will be thrown down." Then on the Mount of Olives, the disciples asked Him when will these things happen and what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age."

Since Jesus had already told them about the destruction of the temple prior to their question, He did not mention anything more about that event, but focused on the signs leading up to his return to end the age. The destruction of the temple has nothing to do with the actual end of the age, as it will have already been completed at least 2000 years after He said it.
 

Ahwatukee

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Mar 12, 2015
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Taking visions literally is rank incompetence. As for the star in Daniel 9:10, even if there wasn't a reference to the stars being trampled, making it impossible to take literally, the chapter goes on to explain the vision, and nothing about actual stars or meteors.
Is that how you read all of your books, symbolically?

The only reason that people consider the book of Revelation as being all symbolic, is be they were told so. It's time to unlearn that and believe what you are reading at face value. If you come to something that does not make literal sense, then look for its symbolic meaning. You can't just lump everything together as being symbolic. Doing so would incompetent!

For example, when you come to the scripture which says, "I saw a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars" I immediately understand it to be symbolism. Its symbolic nature is further supported by the fact that other scripture identify the meaning representing the sun, moon and twelve stars. It is the same with the enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns. The reader is immediately (or should be) alerted to the fact that symbolism is in use here. Once again, we are told right in Revelation what the heads and horns represent. However, other information within Revelation is literal and should not be lumped in with scripture that is symbolic. Those who do so distort the meaning of the book.

Right in the very first verse of Revelation we are told "This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to Him to show His servants the things which must soon take place." However, by yours and others symbolic interpretation of the entire book, we as God's servants wouldn't be able to know what He wanted to reveal to us because according to you, nothing is literal.

Thanks! But I'll stick to what the Spirit has revealed and confirmed within my own studies, stead of following the false teaching of Revelation being a completely symbolic book.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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TDW: Here's how I understand the "stars" :
Daniel 8:9-11 -
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. […"and stamped upon them" indicates they were/are not literal heavenly bodies/stars-we-see-in-the-sky]
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.
Taking visions literally is rank incompetence. As for the star in Daniel 9:10, even if there wasn't a reference to the stars being trampled, making it impossible to take literally, the chapter goes on to explain the vision, and nothing about actual stars or meteors.
In reading your response, I am unclear as to whether you read what I wrote, particularly within the bracketed portion I added to the referenced verse Daniel 8:10. Did you see it?

10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. […"and stamped upon them" indicates they were/are not literal heavenly bodies/stars-we-see-in-the-sky]
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Genesis 37:9 refers to the sun, moon, and stars, but as symbols for Joseph's family, which blows out of water your argument that the mention of the sun and moon proves a literal meaning.

Rev 8:12 refers to a third the sun, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars going dark. What absurdity is bouncing around in you head makes you think that's literal? Come on, explain a scenario to me where that could be literal, where one third of the sun is truck and one third of the stars go dark.

The context of Rev 8:12 is seven trumpets. Why would the stars related to the fourth trumpet be literal, but the items related to the other trumpets not be literal? The next trumpet bring a star, fallen from heaven to the earth, given a key to the bottomless pit. Is that a literal star?



The anti-preterist problem is that they insist on taking everything in a dream or vision literally, unless told explicitly by context that it's symbolic. So, in the insane pursuit of literalism of a dream or vision, anti-preterits push one absurdity after another, while hypocritically doing great violence to the literal meaning of biblical text outside of dreams, visions, and figures of speech.



Someone ignorant 2000 years ago might have thought a falling meteor was a falling star. But, even an ignorant person wouldn't think a meteorite is a star until after it was falling. Why would someone ignorant say the stars fell from the sky when all the stars are still visibly there? Besides, I can't agree with you that the Bible says anything out of ignorance.

Falling meteorites are the same thing as a star. No one, knowing what they are, would ever classify them as the same thing.

How many meteors would have to fall from the sky before we can say a third of the stars fell?

You think a third of the population will die from solar radiation absorbed by a comet? It's interesting that the earth bathes directly in the sun's radiation, all the time, yet no one dies from it (other than a few cases of skin cancer), but there will be mass deaths from second-hand solar radiation form a comet? Did you see, even water from springs is contaminated. How would toxins raining down the from sky contaminate spring water?

It's stupid to default to a literal interpretation of the vision of Revelation. But, you don't take it literally, anyway. Revelation speaks of a star and bitter water, but you speak of a comet and radioactivity. Wormwood is a bitter plant. Where does this plant fit into your literal interpretation?
That's the problem with literalizing the signified language of God. A person misses out on the spiritual meaning, the gospel hid in parables called hidden manna in Revelation.

It would seem many forget that without parables (the signified language of God), the Holy Spirit spoke not. Therefore hiding the spiritual understanding from unconverted man who must walk by sight after the temporal things seen.In the end making .2 Corinthians 4:18 without effect

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corinthians 4:18


Not only does he send His word or inspire it but he also "signifies" it to give the spiritual meaning he intended

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

The Sun and moon and stars are used throughout scripture as temporal time keepers. In the new order there will be no Sun with stars and moon to reflect the temporal glory. God's hidden glory will be the light there will be no darkness. This is just as it was the first three days of creation in order to set the standard for the new heavens and earth

Creatures are used to represent the unseen glory of God. Stars can represent believers as a representative glory , or fallen angel .like Lucifer the son of the morning

Isaiah 14:12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Christ the source of or brightness of His glory.

Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Revelation 21:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

In the new order Christ is not only used to represent the reflected light like the moon and stars but also the source of the light. Bright and morning star . Where again Lucifer a representative reflection .

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
 

Locutus

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Feb 10, 2017
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Not necessarily. It can also mean "race" or "family" depending on context. In the context of the Olivet Discourse, and given the fact that the Jews would be dispersed in 70 AD and forgotten as a nation until 1948, "this generation" meant "this Jewish race or family". Israel would be a nation when all the things mentioned in Mt 24 were being fulfilled in the future. [Note: Thayer's should have put this under 2b, not 3]

Strong's Concordance (1074)
genea: race, family, generation
Original Word: γενεά, ᾶς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: genea
Phonetic Spelling: (ghen-eh-ah')
Definition: race, family, generation
Usage: a generation; if repeated twice or with another time word, practically indicates infinity of time.
The above is wrong - these are the correct Strong's definitions:

Strongs

G1074 genea ghen-eh-ah'

from (a presumed derivative of) G1085;

a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For race/kin:

Strongs

G1085 genos ghen'-os

from G1096;

"kin" (abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The two can't be mixed - that's why there are two different Greek words used to define a generation and kin/race.

The KJV has mudied the definitions that is why you are confused.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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34 I tell you, in that night
there will be two men in one bed;
one will be taken and the other will be left.
35 There will be two women grinding together;
one will be taken and the other will be left.
36 Two men will be in the field;
one will be taken and the other will be left.
37 Then they asked Him, “Where, Lord?”
He said to them,
Wherever the dead body is,
there will the vultures {or} eagles be gathered together.

What is the context of the most popular “secret rapture” pre-Tribulation rapture theory verses in Luke 17:34-35? What time is it really speaking about?
[pre-tribber here :) ] I don't personally know any pre-tribbers who believe that the CONTEXT of the above-mentioned verses are referring to our Rapture, at all.

Why is judgment indicated in most of the verses when such is not supposed to happen until 7 years after the Second Coming of Jesus Christ according to the pre-Tribulation rapture believers?
"until 7 years AFTER the Second Coming"?? I am unsure what you are saying here.

I believe judgment starts at the BEGINNING of the seven years, when Jesus "STANDS to JUDGE" [Isa3:13 / Rev4-5 and Lam2:3-4 / 2Th2:7b (8a)] which unfolds on the earth in the form of the effects of the opening of the FIRST SEAL / the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3; Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100-tis-'A CERTAIN ONE'"]" of many more "birth PANGS [PLURAL; Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8]" that follow on from that INITIAL one... (that's how "birth pangs" work).

The Rapture occurs before the FIRST "SEAL" / INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" (which is the "whose COMING/ARRIVAL/ADVENT/PRESENCE/Parousia" of the man of sin "IN HIS TIME" / Dan9:27a[26])
 

TheDivineWatermark

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^ EDIT (ran out of time for all of the corrections) : ..."(which is the "whose COMING/ARRIVAL/ADVENT/PRESENCE/parousia" of the man of sin "IN HIS TIME" / 2Th2:9a and Dan9:27a[26]--at the START of the "ONE WEEK [7-years]")"
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Is that how you read all of your books, symbolically?

The only reason that people consider the book of Revelation as being all symbolic, is be they were told so. It's time to unlearn that and believe what you are reading at face value. If you come to something that does not make literal sense, then look for its symbolic meaning. You can't just lump everything together as being symbolic. Doing so would incompetent!
Doing so would incompetent what.... the literalizing??

Yes because we are told so . Who told you the language is not signified?

So then its not all books we read that way just the one that provides the signified language of God that he uses in parables. If the language was not signified then we could read it like that.

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

A good example is found in Revelation 20 in that parable when we look to the things seen the temporal it points to the unseen eternal. This is acording to the presciption in2 Cornhians 4:18. knowing without parables Christ spoke not

All of the things we can seen as the temporal are bolded in purple as metephors. Like for instance we cannot see a angel

Revelation 20:1-4 King James Version (KJV)And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

What do you think the key signifies or the bottomless pit or great chain ? Can you see a soul?
 

TheDivineWatermark

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^ garee, there are a few other places where "souls" refers to "persons" (not "body-less" ones!) Here is one such reference:

Acts 27:37 -

"37 And we were in all in the ship two hundred threescore and sixteen souls."

These people didn't decide they were going to shed their bodies (leave those on the shore) before taking a cruise. ;)


I believe this is the case with Rev20:4 also, where the same "LIVED" word was used of Jesus in Rev2:8
 

TheDivineWatermark

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^ "G2198 - ezēsan - they lived" - Rev20:4

"G2198 - ezēsen - He lived" - Rev2:8

(in both cases, it is after they had died / been dead... and then resurrected [bodily])
 

Davenport

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[pre-tribber here :) ] I don't personally know any pre-tribbers who believe that the CONTEXT of the above-mentioned verses are referring to our Rapture, at all.
How can you be a pretribber if you've read the Bible? Seriously.

34 I tell you, in that night
there will be two men in one bed;
one will be taken and the other will be left.
35 There will be two women grinding together;
one will be taken and the other will be left.
36 Two men will be in the field;
one will be taken and the other will be left.”

The above passage is where those cult movies "Left Behind" got their name. Why do pretribbers think those verses refer to the rapture? My only guess is because they haven't read the Bible and don't know anything but out-of-context lies. Consider: 1) Nothing in that passage suggests anyone will be taken before the tribulation. 2) According to context, those taken will be destroyed. 3) the passage speaks at length about what Christians will experience during the tribulation. 4) Christians are told to flee, not be raptured. 5) Jesus said the tribulation would happen before his generation passed, and it did.

If you've read the Bible, you'd know it doesn't support your cult's toxic doctrines.

The Rapture occurs before the FIRST "SEAL" / INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" (which is the "whose COMING/ARRIVAL/ADVENT/PRESENCE/Parousia" of the man of sin "IN HIS TIME" / Dan9:27a[26])
Your asserting your beliefs, but you're not showing that the Bible supports your doctrines.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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^ I just got done saying that Luke 17 is NOT about our Rapture (that is not its CONTEXT). Luke 18 goes on to tell of the same "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" that is also referred to in Rev1:1 "...to shew unto His servants [7:3] things which must come to pass [4:1 the "FUTURE" things/aspect of the Book] IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]..." (not events unfolding over the course of the past 2000 years) and which will end with His Second Coming to the earth (Rev19:19/16:14-16/Isa24:21-22[23], and many other passages).


I've only had brief moments of time, just enough to barely present something (not enough time, atm/currently, to spell it all out in great detail)...
 

TheDivineWatermark

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^ P.S. Someone told me that the authors of that fictional account [series] about our Rapture got their idea for the title, not from the Lk17 passage (nor Matt24), but from 1 Thessalonians 5:6, which states,

"6 Therefore let us [the Church which is His body] not sleep, as do others [G3062 - loipoi ] ; but let us watch and be sober."

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_thessalonians/5-6.htm

-- G3062 - loipoi -

"Definition: the rest, the remaining
Usage: left, left behind, the remainder, the rest, the others." [per Bible Hub]


...who knows. I didn't talk with the authors personally. ;)
 

TheDivineWatermark

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^ oh, and that verse should actually read with the definite article before the G3062 word, more like this,

"6 Therefore let us [the Church which is His body] not sleep, as do the others [G3062 - loipoi ] ; but let us watch and be sober."
 
Mar 28, 2016
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^ garee, there are a few other places where "souls" refers to "persons" (not "body-less" ones!) Here is one such reference:

Acts 27:37 -

"37 And we were in all in the ship two hundred threescore and sixteen souls."

These people didn't decide they were going to shed their bodies (leave those on the shore) before taking a cruise. ;)


I believe this is the case with Rev20:4 also, where the same "LIVED" word was used of Jesus in Rev2:8
I did not say "body-less" ones as ones that live in a body of death as evidence they were under the wrath of God, the first death !Our new born again souls go beyond this realm under the Sun .

Where the same "LIVED......The rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. (with the word thousand representing a unknown) they will not have a part in the second death.

Souls speak of those who have been given a new spirit and new heart as those who will be raised to new spirit life on the last day . It is not in reference to the body..... seen .But is in respect to a disembodied spirit. To be beheaded is to have Christ our husband as our unseen head.
 
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[pre-tribber here :) ] I don't personally know any pre-tribbers who believe that the CONTEXT of the above-mentioned verses are referring to our Rapture, at all.



"until 7 years AFTER the Second Coming"?? I am unsure what you are saying here.

I believe judgment starts at the BEGINNING of the seven years, when Jesus "STANDS to JUDGE" [Isa3:13 / Rev4-5 and Lam2:3-4 / 2Th2:7b (8a)] which unfolds on the earth in the form of the effects of the opening of the FIRST SEAL / the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3; Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100-tis-'A CERTAIN ONE'"]" of many more "birth PANGS [PLURAL; Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8]" that follow on from that INITIAL one... (that's how "birth pangs" work).

The Rapture occurs before the FIRST "SEAL" / INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" (which is the "whose COMING/ARRIVAL/ADVENT/PRESENCE/Parousia" of the man of sin "IN HIS TIME" / Dan9:27a[26])

The Pre-Trib Rapture theory was based on a dream by a teenager in 1830 Most who believe it say the rapture will occur at Revelation 4 because John said he was caught up. But the 1 Corinthians 15 mentions the last trump, Also there are two kinds of tribulation: one is what is happening in Muslim countries and happened in Stalin's, Genghis Kahn's and Mao's, and Hitler's times. Minor tribulation is happening in the lives of those with severe health, financial, or/and family problems. The second kind of tribulation is the coming Great Tribulation. Chaos in the whole wide World can happen with even a small amount of horrible happenings. Even 2, 9/11 and Katrina, paralyzed the USA in different ways; the former had all airplanes grounded etc. But what would nuclear bombs do as EMTs or in small brief cases dirty bombs planted in various cities. What about chemical and biological warfare in many places? What about many "natural disasters" all happening at one time? But true Christians are not spared from tribulation, but they are spared from God's Wrath.

And pre-Trib, mid-Trib, and post-Trib theories are just theories. Internationally, the pre Trib rapture theory has not caught on. When has the majority even in one country been right and why should the USA be spared from judgment? The abortion and the homosexual problems are bad enough and so the USA deserves the worse judgment before God’s Wrath. I just encourage others that we should just be living for God instead of self (having the right faith in the Full Gospel) so that we are ready for death or the rapture. And there is no evidence that the rapture results in all true Christians being in Heaven for a thousand years. I believe that when Jesus Christ returns, the Earth being put on fire will happen after the rapture of the righteous dead and alive. And the Earth will be recreated into paradise with the New Jerusalem coming down to where Jerusalem is now. What a Day that will be. Did you hear about panmillenialism? It will all pan-out in the end. Scripture says that we should avoid vain disputes and Jesus Christ said the World will know who are His disciples by their unselfish love for one another. Where are the churches that manifest the Fruit of the Spirit, Philippians 2:1-5, and Ephesians 4:11-16? The condition of most current Christian churches' problems especially of arrogance and wrong judging of others is actually worse than the horrible politics and media of lying and hate. Christians should at least be living the Golden Rule and being good examples to the politicians and liberal media reporters/commentators.

And what is the Full Gospel that we should be sharing?

00j-- 1a.) Abnormal True Children of God Scriptures-- in ETRSF (19 pgs.)
https://app.box.com/s/qjhelfpshxs1f2moi999yvtthjp4xlzo


0-- Thesis about Basic Christianity

https://app.box.com/s/bx9mqm38ml4vgdn16bchs0d5453q3x02

0-- Great for finding great verses and contexts
https://app.box.com/s/0axtq9gg3z7j7ikxa069kej8w5dohrmj



6e Prophecy theories and fulfillments-- https://app.box.com/s/b4f214de6048af2f1b8a
NT-22-- Revelation-- 4th Edition in ETRSF (20 pgs.)-- https://app.box.com/s/fzje4ktn2cp088wr9wkj4z16nplvlerq

01-- 'forever' Bible study tool-- https://app.box.com/s/8iiu7ii3ydqd8j1bf9mfsopcsscl2xfm
01a-- Heaven-- ETRSF (39 pgs.)-- https://app.box.com/s/olilyab3mpxg3isbpjo7c020259nd44l
01b-- death-- ETRSF (18 pgs.)-- https://app.box.com/s/zcmwnbcnoma11m81m1e7183enxhr4p66




 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,763
113
The Pre-Trib Rapture theory was based on a dream by a teenager in 1830
And the Anti-Pre-Trib theory was based on a fantasy by those who made Scriptures mean whatever they wished.

Your fundamental error is to confuse Bible DOCTRINE with theories. There is nothing theoretical about rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

You will not find the words "church" or "churches" anywhere in Revelation 6-18 (which describe the future outpouring of God's wrath on the unbelieving, the ungodly, and the wicked). So the question you should be asking yourself is "WHY?"
 
Oct 24, 2018
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And the Anti-Pre-Trib theory was based on a fantasy by those who made Scriptures mean whatever they wished.

Your fundamental error is to confuse Bible DOCTRINE with theories. There is nothing theoretical about rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

You will not find the words "church" or "churches" anywhere in Revelation 6-18 (which describe the future outpouring of God's wrath on the unbelieving, the ungodly, and the wicked). So the question you should be asking yourself is "WHY?"

You are wrong about your second and third statements. I am rightly dividing the Word of Truth, but I don't need the man-made Greek definitions. Holy Spirit guidance is good enough for me. Check the attached 2 Bible study tools.

Rev_12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

There is no verse that in the New Testament that says when the catching-up occurs or Second Coming of Jesus Christ actually occurs in relation to the prophecies in Revelation. And the left behind movies are not proven in Scripture. Only imaginings and opinions.

Again, the important issue is to have the right faith in the Full Gospel. Then one can be ready for whatever happens. Enjoy the attached Bible study tools and items in 6e Prophecy theories and fulfillments-- https://app.box.com/s/b4f214de6048af2f1b8a .
 

Davenport

Active member
Oct 22, 2018
155
46
28
And the Anti-Pre-Trib theory was based on a fantasy by those who made Scriptures mean whatever they wished.
You accuse others of your own guilt. Pretribe is a ridiculous, satanic, and screamingly anti-Bible doctrine.

You will not find the words "church" or "churches" anywhere in Revelation 6-18 (which describe the future outpouring of God's wrath on the unbelieving, the ungodly, and the wicked). So the question you should be asking yourself is "WHY?"
Refuting your nonsense is trivial. But, bringing you to the truth would take an act of God, for even a puff of smoke is in impenetrable wall to you. Saints, who make up the church, are mentioned numerous times between Revelation 6 and 18. When Jesus explains the tribulation in Mark 13 (et. el.), it's mostly about what Christians will face in the tribulation. Revelation ends by saying, " I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches."

Pretribe is a ridiculous, satanic, and screamingly anti-Bible doctrine, which is why your argument for the pretrib is as pathetically thin as saying the word "church" doesn't appear in few middle chapter so the book of Revelation. You should be embarrassed to make such an argument.