“Christalignment" heard of this?

[Angela53510]

As I said, Willie, I was saved out of the New Age movement. No one wore a three piece suit, or laid down the law on me! Any more than any Christian tried to reach me at my “level” with Tarot/Destiny cards.

Instead, I heard amazing testimonies of people whom God saved. Others shared the Bible from their heart. Others gave a clear presentation of the gospel. Oh, and they were led of the Holy Spirit. Because in the end, God saved me, not some fast tap dance of “we’re New Age/we’re not!”

Funny thing, when I was a New Ager, I bought a deck of Tarot cards. I took a look at the first few, and threw them in the wood burning fireplace. I made sure they were completely burned. And when someone tried to read my cards, I always said no, and left them immediately.

In a transfer seminary course I took on World Religions, there was a full blooded native woman, saved out of native religions. She was an amazing woman. Someone brought up Tarot cards, and she jumped and said, “The are portals to evil!” I immediately realized that God must have been guiding me away from that evil, even before I was saved. Oh, my portal to evil was a Ouija Board. Started reading the Bible and memorizing scripture around age 12. Age 13, a school friend got me involved in Ouija boards. Within a few years, I no longer believed in God, although I believed in the paranormal. It took 13 years to get free of that, and for God to break that curse and bring me home.

I used to make silver jewelry, I was at all the fairs. I made an honest living doing that. So, wouldn’t it have been better for those people in that church to have made jewelry, or pottery, or sold weaving, instead of piggy backing on a portal to evil!? For that matter, if God wanted someone to be saved and sent a man wearing a three piece suit and waving a Scofield Bible, God could do that, too!

You limit God! Contextualizing the gospel does not mean getting in bed with evil! Here is what my God told me:


“Preach the message, be ready whether it is convenient or not, reprove, rebuke, exhort with complete patience and instruction. 3 For there will be a time when people will not tolerate sound teaching. Instead, following their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves, because they have an insatiable curiosity to hear new things. 4 And they will turn away from hearing the truth, but on the other hand they will turn aside to myths.” 2 Tim 4:2-4 NET

 

[Laish]

The more I think about using card reading to reach those in the New age groups. The crazier it seems.
It's like using a bottle of Jack to reach out to alcoholics or meth to drug addicts .
Blessings
Bill

 

[Willie-T]

The more I think about using card reading to reach those in the New age groups. The crazier it seems.
It's like using a bottle of Jack to reach out to alcoholics or meth to drug addicts .
Blessings
Bill

Yet, we devise all sorts of "outreach" programs, from sports to cooking classes, (and Lord knows what else....) to reach people where they live, and swear it is all some kind of divine inspiration.

No doubt this seems like a dumb way to do it... to us... but we haven't the slightest idea what those people have heard.... (despite the fact that we swear we DO!!!...) other than our own decision that there is no way they could have possibly heard from God. (I'm pretty sure He only speaks to US.)

 

[Willie-T]

As I said, Willie, I was saved out of the New Age movement. No one wore a three piece suit, or laid down the law on me! Any more than any Christian tried to reach me at my “level” with Tarot/Destiny cards.

Instead, I heard amazing testimonies of people whom God saved. Others shared the Bible from their heart. Others gave a clear presentation of the gospel. Oh, and they were led of the Holy Spirit. Because in the end, God saved me, not some fast tap dance of “we’re New Age/we’re not!”

Funny thing, when I was a New Ager, I bought a deck of Tarot cards. I took a look at the first few, and threw them in the wood burning fireplace. I made sure they were completely burned. And when someone tried to read my cards, I always said no, and left them immediately.

In a transfer seminary course I took on World Religions, there was a full blooded native woman, saved out of native religions. She was an amazing woman. Someone brought up Tarot cards, and she jumped and said, “The are portals to evil!” I immediately realized that God must have been guiding me away from that evil, even before I was saved. Oh, my portal to evil was a Ouija Board. Started reading the Bible and memorizing scripture around age 12. Age 13, a school friend got me involved in Ouija boards. Within a few years, I no longer believed in God, although I believed in the paranormal. It took 13 years to get free of that, and for God to break that curse and bring me home.

I used to make silver jewelry, I was at all the fairs. I made an honest living doing that. So, wouldn’t it have been better for those people in that church to have made jewelry, or pottery, or sold weaving, instead of piggy backing on a portal to evil!? For that matter, if God wanted someone to be saved and sent a man wearing a three piece suit and waving a Scofield Bible, God could do that, too!

You limit God! Contextualizing the gospel does not mean getting in bed with evil! Here is what my God told me:


“Preach the message, be ready whether it is convenient or not, reprove, rebuke, exhort with complete patience and instruction. 3 For there will be a time when people will not tolerate sound teaching. Instead, following their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves, because they have an insatiable curiosity to hear new things. 4 And they will turn away from hearing the truth, but on the other hand they will turn aside to myths.” 2 Tim 4:2-4 NET

You did speak the truth in the words I BOLDED.... Yes, it seems you are insistent upon limiting Him..... to the ways you decree He is allowed to work.

 

[notuptome]

You did speak the truth in the words I BOLDED.... Yes, it seems you are insistent upon limiting Him.

God does not use contaminated vessels in His service.

2 Cor 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kaylagrl]

And you have a serious problem understanding a simple post. In no way did I endorse, or would I endorse this ministry. Neither does Bethel from what I've read.

And this grave sucking? What they in actuality were doing was to hopefully receive the anointing of the one who had died. Which to me is silly, but I can see why they would think this from the OT and the bones of Elisha.

I don't believe tricks are needed for ministry to anyone. Just the Presence of the Lord on ones life is all anyone needs.

However, I know these times we live in are full of lying spirits about the godly. So search for the truth seven. That's what I say.

​Grave sucking?! lol For real? rofl Unbelievable!!!

 

[kaylagrl]

thing is, Bethel is already involved up to their eyeballs in what they should never have been involved in

false teachers and prophets seem to never apologize...they just go on to something new and even more ear tickling

​False preachers today don't have to apologize.Its not like the OT when if you were wrong in your predictions they held a rock concert in your honor,literally.

 

[MichaelOwen]

​False preachers today don't have to apologize.Its not like the OT when if you were wrong in your predictions they held a rock concert in your honor,literally.

The crazy thing about people coming forward these days is they all have this prophecy about how something will end or the Rapture, or this and that, when in all reality, no man knows the future. NOT A SINGLE ONE. Hence why Christ warned there would be false teachers and prophets, not just those who come in His name proclaiming to be Him, but also those who try to prophesy about certain events and catastrophic things. It's just the reality, which is when someone says they had a vision or something from God, I take it with a grain of salt.

 

[kaylagrl]

You know very well that I was not defending Tarot cards. (I even specifically said that in no uncertain terms in one of my posts.) I was standing against the damning of people who honestly do believe their warped understanding of Scripture is God telling them to reach this entire lost group of "very unusual" people by using methods of communicating with them that they can understand and relate to. For anyone to approach them at one of their New Age Fairs (where these Bethel people seem to go to find them) wearing a three-piece suit and reciting Scripture at them from a Scofield would be a sure way to guarantee turning them off to your message.

My God has not told me that I have the right to deliberately condemn either of those groups... the weirdo church people, nor the freaky New Agers. But, he did tell me to resist hatred in any form. And these websites are nothing less.

But the problem is Willie someone has to lead and stop people when they go too far.That is suppose to be the pastors job.

A crowd like this took over my home church,the church I grew up in.I knew the pastor all my life.But he and his wife particularly (where she spits grass never grows again) wanted a big,big church in our area. And apparently they didn't care how that happened. When they got going full tilt here are a few of the things that were going on...

We had one woman that would come over to you and begin passing her hands all over your body,just inches away.She was "reading your aura". Crazy as a loon.

​We had another women who would lay on the floor and look like she was trying to have a bowel movement.She was "birthing something spiritual". Luckily I never saw anything come out of her.

We had line dancing. You never saw so many bellies and breasts flopping.But we had the boot scootin boogie going on in the church. Never saw such pitiful dancers.

We had "drunk in the spirit". The crowd was something to watch,I tell you!

We had "holy laughter",and you dare not laugh at them or then you were pulled in the mix.

We had this all GOING ON AT ONCE! I said it was like the movie Jumanji. You didn't know where to stand.Either you were dragged into the floor by the drunks,or you were in the line dance. Now Im Pentecostal,A of G, so Im hardly straight laced when it comes to the move of the spirit. But allllll of that was show,attention grabbing. All these people flooded our church and took over. One lady said to our pastor "give my husband a word" Her husband wasn't saved,the word should have been, get saved! All this malarkey went on till we gave the pastor his walking papers.The next Sunday,silence.His whole crew left with him.And you know what,there were things happening before that pastor came.People were reaching into the community,people were coming to church for the first time,people had been healed.All that was lost in the confusion and our church was left bruised and battered.

So I have zero tolerance for this type of nonsense. All they wanted to do was put on a show.We saw no new converts,just a bunch of church hoppers that wanted to go wild. It was insane.Luckily for me and my family we were in traveling ministry so we got a break from it. Not everything that goes on in the name of God is from God.Thats why we are told to discern,test the spirit. You don't allow people to go off the rails.And they will if you give them an inch.Thats why we need good strong pastors to make sure this doesn't happen.

 

[beastslayer1970]

​Grave sucking?! lol For real? rofl Unbelievable!!!

Beni Johnson finally admitted she participates in this and allows BSSM teachers to teach it. Beni, said she learned it from none other than Benny Hinn, who routinely used to visits Kathryn Kuhlmans grave site seeking her anointing

 

[MichaelOwen]

But the problem is Willie someone has to lead and stop people when they go too far.That is suppose to be the pastors job.

A crowd like this took over my home church,the church I grew up in.I knew the pastor all my life.But he and his wife particularly (where she spits grass never grows again) wanted a big,big church in our area. And apparently they didn't care how that happened. When they got going full tilt here are a few of the things that were going on...

We had one woman that would come over to you and begin passing her hands all over your body,just inches away.She was "reading your aura". Crazy as a loon.

​We had another women who would lay on the floor and look like she was trying to have a bowel movement.She was "birthing something spiritual". Luckily I never saw anything come out of her.

We had line dancing. You never saw so many bellies and breasts flopping.But we had the boot scootin boogie going on in the church. Never saw such pitiful dancers.

We had "drunk in the spirit". The crowd was something to watch,I tell you!

We had "holy laughter",and you dare not laugh at them or then you were pulled in the mix.

We had this all GOING ON AT ONCE! I said it was like the movie Jumanji. You didn't know where to stand.Either you were dragged into the floor by the drunks,or you were in the line dance. Now Im Pentecostal,A of G, so Im hardly straight laced when it comes to the move of the spirit. But allllll of that was show,attention grabbing. All these people flooded our church and took over. One lady said to our pastor "give my husband a word" Her husband wasn't saved,the word should have been, get saved! All this malarkey went on till we gave the pastor his walking papers.The next Sunday,silence.His whole crew left with him.And you know what,there were things happening before that pastor came.People were reaching into the community,people were coming to church for the first time,people had been healed.All that was lost in the confusion and our church was left bruised and battered.

So I have zero tolerance for this type of nonsense. All they wanted to do was put on a show.We saw no new converts,just a bunch of church hoppers that wanted to go wild. It was insane.Luckily for me and my family we were in traveling ministry so we got a break from it. Not everything that goes on in the name of God is from God.Thats why we are told to discern,test the spirit. You don't allow people to go off the rails.And they will if you give them an inch.Thats why we need good strong pastors to make sure this doesn't happen.

I completely second this, and it goes back to bringing more of the world into the church, and not more of the church into the world. I believe the Lord will hold ALL preachers and pastors accountable for their ministries here on this Earth, and that kind of lewd behavior is not from God. One word defines it......witchcraft......and God condemns that and he hates it. I am so thankful the church I attend is a small church, but the pastor is a traditional faith driven man, and he does not allow any worldly things to contaminate the congregation. He's loving and caring and not afraid to share Jesus with anyone who is willing to hear, but that other kind of nonsense, will not be tolerated. THAT needs to be happening in churches everywhere!

 

[stonesoffire]

​Grave sucking?! lol For real? rofl Unbelievable!!!

Its what others have labeled them Kayla. As I said, they are seeking the anointing of the past revivalists.

Ive never thought for myself that I want any other anointing except for "putting on the Lord Jesus Christ". So don't label the messenger to be as the message please.

I ascribe zeal of the young to these things.

 

[kaylagrl]

Beni Johnson finally admitted she participates in this and allows BSSM teachers to teach it. Beni, said she learned it from none other than Benny Hinn, who routinely used to visits Kathryn Kuhlmans grave site seeking her anointing

Hinn,lol Talk about a weird one.He grew up in Canada.A pastor friend of mine had him at his church when we was just getting started.He said that he had a person to carry his jacket,that was his job,to carry Hinns jacket. No one else was allowed to touch it. My friend said that when they left the room and the jacket behind he threw it on the floor.And knowing my friend I believe he did it,and possibly jumped on it.rofl

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Keep in mind that dwelling in unity does not necessarily mean agreeing on every jot and tittle. Unity can still be possible with differences of opinions.

agreed

our unity is supposed to be in Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit

Jesus never said Christians will be known by their doctrine

we are 'supposed' to be known for our love for one another and others

however, when doctrines of demons creeps in, and folks are jumping up and down saying it's God....that unity is broken and it must be broken because it is a different spirit

so, we can only pray for what is false to be revealed ... and people to renounce the lies and accept truth

 

[star]

Yes, God does use contaminated vessels. Read 1 John: 1 (8,9) No one is without sin. We are forgiven sinners. We still can do God's work. We do still do God's work.

 

[beastslayer1970]

Its what others have labeled them Kayla. As I said, they are seeking the anointing of the past revivalists.

Ive never thought for myself that I want any other anointing except for "putting on the Lord Jesus Christ". So don't label the messenger to be as the message please.

I ascribe zeal of the young to these things.

SOrry it is not zeal of the young. Beni Johnson herslef finally admitted she participates in this. If the leaders are doing it, it means it is sanctioned as ok to teach and follow suit with.

Beni stands on the story in 2 Kings 13:20-21 for this being legitimate Christian Practice.

Kris Vallotton can deny his leaders involvement all he wants, but the BSSM student social media outs his own leaders.
This is how Beni and a Bethel Pastor named Ben Fitzgerald got caught doing it. A BSSM 2nd year student video them all grave sucking Smith Wigglesworth's grave site.

Kris Vallotton is probably shielded through intentional plausible deniability schemes.

For the record, Kris Vallotton is certainly no real Prophet either. He is however, a profit in every sense of that word. He sells his how you to can become a Prophet of God books to churches all over the place. His 2 prodigies are the worst false prophets on the planet, but some of the best profits in the world, Ryan LeStrange and Jennifer LeClaire. LeClaire is the editor in chief of Charisma news online. Bethels Profits have a very bloody trail of deception and destruction on their path. Many other churches are now using these destiny cards.

 

[kaylagrl]

Its what others have labeled them Kayla. As I said, they are seeking the anointing of the past revivalists.

Ive never thought for myself that I want any other anointing except for "putting on the Lord Jesus Christ". So don't label the messenger to be as the message please.

I ascribe zeal of the young to these things.

We have all the anointing we need in the Holy Spirit. We have power for today,we do not need anything from dead saints. Now,it may be,as you say,zeal of youth.But as I said in my post,that is why the pastor is there. That is his job,to direct zeal in the right direction.Otherwise zeal becomes foolishness and can be harmful. Someone has to have a steady hand. Ive seen what goes on when no one leads. Its a mess and we can't reach the world when foolishness like this is going on in the church.

 

[stonesoffire]

The problem rises then where all demonstrations of power is put into one basket called crazyness. There is the true gift of laughter. It's for healing of the wounded soul. Then there is contagious laughter which I think happens too, not necessarily the gift.

There is true falling under the power of the presence of God. Then we have ego stroking where everyone falls by a touch. And we too have those who are desperate for a touch, and those offended when they aren't.

These things happened in past revivals, and am sure will continue on. Perhaps this is a case of letting the tares grow with the wheat? For what I see then happen, is people with nothing but head knowledge, and we all should know what that "grows".

Plus, dead churches that don't know what it's like to be alive. Nor do they care.

I miss being under Lester Sumrall. There was power there, and it was on the Word ministered, and then demonstrated.

There are churches like that but few and far between.

 

[MichaelOwen]

Yes, God does use contaminated vessels. Read 1 John: 1 (8,9) No one is without sin. We are forgiven sinners. We still can do God's work. We do still do God's work.

While that is true, we are all sinners, there are things that SHOULD NOT go on IN the house of God. Matthew 21:12-13 shows where Christ over turned the money changers and ran out those who doing unholy things in the Temple, which was the house of the Lord. That same principle should apply to all churches when it comes to things that do not lift up Christ or hinder the gospel and the growing of the faith.

 

[stonesoffire]

SOrry it is not zeal of the young. Beni Johnson herslef finally admitted she participates in this. If the leaders are doing it, it means it is sanctioned as ok to teach and follow suit with.

Beni stands on the story in 2 Kings 13:20-21 for this being legitimate Christian Practice.

Kris Vallotton can deny his leaders involvement all he wants, but the BSSM student social media outs his own leaders.
This is how Beni and a Bethel Pastor named Ben Fitzgerald got caught doing it. A BSSM 2nd year student video them all grave sucking Smith Wigglesworth's grave site.

Kris Vallotton is probably shielded through intentional plausible deniability schemes.

For the record, Kris Vallotton is certainly no real Prophet either. He is however, a profit in every sense of that word. He sells his how you to can become a Prophet of God books to churches all over the place. His 2 prodigies are the worst false prophets on the planet, but some of the best profits in the world, Ryan LeStrange and Jennifer LeClaire. LeClaire is the editor in chief of Charisma news online. Bethels Profits have a very bloody trail of deception and destruction on their path. Many other churches are now using these destiny cards.

Have you been here before under another name? For you say the same things Another said while here. Even about ministering to a couple from Bethel.