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now Bethel has a fake Bethel Board out and they are mocking those who are calling out the demonic destiny cards
this is from the Christalignment site...
they are channeling demons
there is a vast history to this entire mess and none of it is good
people who call this out are called Pharisees and worse. yet the practices are occult and getting more bizarre
I wouldn't listen to anyone who tries to scare someone by saying
some people on this site have been hiding what they really believe
and some are no longer here
when you put experience over the word and you do not believe Jesus when He warned about deception, you will be deceived
when you say we do not have to listen to Jesus, you have just fallen into a deep pit
I had no idea this thread would turn into what it has. I've had enough of it for now...as I said earlier...but it appears this exposure might be overdue...perhaps some are thinking about getting into this movement
I pray they do not
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And I had no idea so many of you had let such seething hatred seep so deeply into your souls that you would jump at any chance to damn other believers in Christ because they understand differently than you do, and have gotten into doing some pretty strange (to us) stuff. Poor Balaam if you had ever found out he talked with a donkey....... you might have stoned him on the spot.
I think that many here haven't yet read these words of Jesus:
Joh 13:34 A newcommandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Joh 13:35 By this shall all menknow that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
selah
now wait for the butts....
No need of butts. The words of Jesus to those who are spiritually out of line are as follows (Rev 3:19):
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
When will Christians learn that exposing the lies of Satan and telling people to repent are actually acts of love, not hatred? Hatred means allowing others to be deceived and deluded by Satan so that they end up in Hell.
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
When will Christians learn that exposing the lies of Satan and telling people to repent are actually acts of love, not hatred? Hatred means allowing others to be deceived and deluded by Satan so that they end up in Hell.
Perhaps you never saw when I exegeted the passage on Balaam’s donkey. Balaam is a false prophet, about to curse the Israelites for money. But, the donkey balks, so Balaam beats him. Finally, the donkey talks and then the angel of the Lord, who is blocking the way is revealed.
This was no commission by a donkey to a believer. It was, in fact, God stopping his people, from whom the Messiah would come,of being cursed. Balaam was not “poor!” He was in it for the profit only, even after God told him not to do it.
You charismatics just love to mishandle this text! Or use it as a proof text that anything bizarre has the potential to be directly from the mouth of God. But, this is the ONLY time this happens in the Bible! God had strong reasons for stopping Balaam from earning ill gotten gains, and it was not to protect Balaam, but rather the people of God. It is bad hermeneutics to use this passage and infer that it is about a Christian, or that it justifies anything done in the name of God, no matter how absurd.
Again, try reading your Bible before you spout these wrong comments about what the Bible account actually tells us.
As for hatred, that is kind of a straw man. When you stand up for truth, against this kind of pure and unadulterated New Age garbage, that is not hatred. Nor are those people believers in Christ, plain and simple. The jargon could have come out of any Alice Bailey or Helena Blavatsky Manuel on how to become an ascended master JUST LIKE JESUS!
The true Christ is simply not being preached by these people, and they are probably seducing many people with their New Age lies. I was in that movement, and it is a disgrace to the name of Jesus Christ what these people are doing. That is not hatred, but the truth! God called me out of the New Age Movement in 1980. Praise him! But, after 10 years in this loosely affliated group, I can tell you that it is evil and from the pit of hell. And reading that website shows me not much has changed in all that time. Even the jargon is the same. I praise God every day for saving me out of such a demonic cult!
Try and stop being afraid of becoming a legalist again, by swinging to the opposite pendulum of “anything goes.” Something in the middle is much more Biblical and God-fearing! (Or should I say God-loving? Both, I think!)
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Charismatics Using ‘Christian Ouija Board’ to Communicate with Angels
BY NEWS DIVISION · DECEMBER 20, 2017
A week ago, we reported that charismatics are using “Christian tarot cards.” Christalignment, a ‘ministry’ run by Jen Hodge, had put together a “destiny card” schtick to help “reach people” in the New Age movement. You can read about that here, but they have since pulled down their videos. We also reported Hodge’s association with Bethel Church, which at first repudiated the tarot card ministry but upon finding out that Bethel members were involved with it, then deleted their rebuke and affirmed the practice. Steve Kozar at Pirate Christian Radio posted a satire piece about “The Bethel Board,” a Ouija Board-type device by which charismatics can summon the demonic.
While Kozar’s piece was satire, it appears that truth is stranger than fiction. Charismatics actually are using ‘Christian Ouija Boards,’ but not just as an evangelism technique. They are using them to communicate with ‘angels.’
Called “The Angels Talk: The Message Board that Connects You to Your Angels,” the device is used to communicate with spirits.
read the rest here...turns out its not really all that much of a joke...
not connecting this to Bethel so put that club down
BY NEWS DIVISION · DECEMBER 20, 2017
A week ago, we reported that charismatics are using “Christian tarot cards.” Christalignment, a ‘ministry’ run by Jen Hodge, had put together a “destiny card” schtick to help “reach people” in the New Age movement. You can read about that here, but they have since pulled down their videos. We also reported Hodge’s association with Bethel Church, which at first repudiated the tarot card ministry but upon finding out that Bethel members were involved with it, then deleted their rebuke and affirmed the practice. Steve Kozar at Pirate Christian Radio posted a satire piece about “The Bethel Board,” a Ouija Board-type device by which charismatics can summon the demonic.
While Kozar’s piece was satire, it appears that truth is stranger than fiction. Charismatics actually are using ‘Christian Ouija Boards,’ but not just as an evangelism technique. They are using them to communicate with ‘angels.’
Called “The Angels Talk: The Message Board that Connects You to Your Angels,” the device is used to communicate with spirits.
read the rest here...turns out its not really all that much of a joke...
not connecting this to Bethel so put that club down
When I hear people saying what other believers understand is demonic, and they say these various preachers and people are working for Satan.... and when I have even heard some here call preachers they didn't like "demons.".... then "Yes" LETTING SEETHING HATRED DRILL DEEP INTO THEIR SOULS IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN.
It goes far beyond just this one little thread. The eagerness to damn other believers has been going on with many people here for years. Many don't seem to even consider people who worship in strange and different ways to be human. I have heard them called everything BUT other human beings that God created and loves.
It goes far beyond just this one little thread. The eagerness to damn other believers has been going on with many people here for years. Many don't seem to even consider people who worship in strange and different ways to be human. I have heard them called everything BUT other human beings that God created and loves.
I was addressing Willie’s comments on Elijah and Elisha, and that any time you sit on a grave, expecting a similar anointing to what that person had, you are in fact speaking to the dead. I mean, why not just sit in the comfort of your own home, or your church and ask God for the anointing of CS Lewis, or Katherine Kulhman or Smith Wigglesworth? Surely you don’t have to travel thousands of miles to pray for God to give you these things. If in fact, that is what God actually wants for you life.
I assure you, if God has a plan for you, he will call, equip and enable you, without having to sit on someone’s grave to get it. There has to be a wrong belief in there, to believe that sitting on someone’s grave who is long since dead is going to give you any kind of anointing.
Really, it is just plain creepy to me!
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your post to someone else:
Originally Posted by stonesoffire
It says all things to all people.
One up another? No, that's not my intention. It's finding truth. You did say one thing in a post that I agree with though. I find it very unChristlike for anyone to judge the ministry of Bill Johnson. Not saying those under him, but he himself. And I've always heard that if we criticize others ministry, we will never have our own.
Unless you can find blatent sin in a life, I would be careful in this matter. Before our own master, we all stand or fall. It's my opinion that God is judging many right now in all areas of life.
So you dont know me at all. And I suspect you are still angry with me. That's your problem.
that is what I was addressing
you just keep flipping what you say
doesn't matter. I suppose if someone has the time, they can go back and read but they would have to be an insomniac
One up another? No, that's not my intention. It's finding truth. You did say one thing in a post that I agree with though. I find it very unChristlike for anyone to judge the ministry of Bill Johnson. Not saying those under him, but he himself. And I've always heard that if we criticize others ministry, we will never have our own.
Unless you can find blatent sin in a life, I would be careful in this matter. Before our own master, we all stand or fall. It's my opinion that God is judging many right now in all areas of life.
So you dont know me at all. And I suspect you are still angry with me. That's your problem.
that is what I was addressing
you just keep flipping what you say
doesn't matter. I suppose if someone has the time, they can go back and read but they would have to be an insomniac
“Question: "What is grave sucking / grave soaking / mantle grabbing?"
Answer: Grave sucking, also known as grave soaking or mantle grabbing, is the act of lying across the physical grave of a deceased preacher or evangelist for the purpose of “pulling out” the power of the Holy Spirit, a power that was purportedly “trapped” within the body upon the person’s death. The aberrant practice of grave sucking was initiated within the Charismatic movement and Word of Faith teachings, which are an amalgamation of orthodox Christianity and mysticism. Videos and images across the internet show grave suckers kneeling at or lying across the grave plots or gravestones of famous figures such as C. S. Lewis, John Calvin, or Charles Finney in hopes of “grabbing” the abandoned spiritual mantle or “soaking up” an anointing like a sponge.
Grave sucking or mantle grabbing is based upon the idea that the spiritual calling of an individual who has died may be reclaimed and used by another person. The theory is that God uses the Holy Spirit to “anoint” certain believers with a specific purpose, such as healing or prophecy, but, when the person dies, God’s work is thwarted. Thus, the Holy Spirit is “wasted,” lying upon the bones and unable to continue the calling. Unrecovered anointing is apparently available to anyone who would physically come and claim it. This superstitious practice is blatantly unbiblical, spiritually dangerous, and tremendously misleading for uninformed believers.
All power comes from God (Job 26:14; Matthew 19:26)—not from gravesites. Our individual life’s purpose is given by God Himself (1 Corinthians 7:17); another believer’s empowerment cannot be “sucked out” or “grabbed” from a corpse. To ascribe spiritual power to the bones of the dead, no matter how godly the deceased was in life, is idolatry (Exodus 20:3; Isaiah 42:8; John 4:24). The Holy Spirit resides in every believer (John 14:16–17; 1 Corinthians 6:19–20)—not just “anointed saints.” The Holy Spirit cannot be trapped by the death of a human being; the teaching of grave sucking objectifies the Holy Spirit and limits His power to certain locales.
A possible “proof text” for grave sucking is 2 King 13:21, in which a dead man is thrown into an open grave, and, when his body touches the bones of Elisha, the man is resurrected. This biblical account could be used to show that power or “anointing” is still present in a prophet’s bones after death. However, there is a major difference between the biblical event and the modern concept of grave sucking, namely, the recipient of the power was dead. No one was seeking a mantle or an anointing; God simply chose to perform a resurrection, honoring the memory of His prophet in the process.
At its root, grave sucking is founded upon a misunderstanding of the mantle or cloak the prophets of the Bible sometimes wore as a sign of their calling from God (1 Kings 19:13; 1 Samuel 15:27). Most well-known is the story of the prophet Elijah passing his mantle on to his protégé Elisha. The Bible shows Elijah using his cloak as a symbol of his ministry and God’s authority (1 Kings 19:15–16, 19; 2 Kings 2:1–11). After Elijah was translated into heaven, Elisha picked up the mantle and became Israel’s new prophet (2 Kings 2:14). The passing of the mantle was a symbolic act, however; a physical object has no inherent spiritual power. Like many Old Testament objects and events, the mantle was “a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves” (Hebrews 10:1).
The grave sucking phenomenon originated in Bill Johnson’s Bethel Church in Redding, California, an organization associated with other unconventional practices such as Sozo prayer and heretical movements such as the Toronto Blessing and the New Apostolic Reformation. Conflicting sources claim grave sucking is an ongoing joke among students from the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry, which, if true, would be a tragic mishandling of biblical truth (2 Timothy 2:15). Even Charismamag, a Charismatic magazine, condemns grave sucking in no uncertain terms. Yet Bill Johnson says in the book Physics of Heaven, “There are anointings, mantles, revelations and mysteries that have lain unclaimed, literally where they were left, because the generation that walked in them never passed them on. I believe it’s possible for us to recover realms of anointing, realms of insight, realms of God that have been untended for decades simply by choosing to reclaim them and perpetuate them for future generations” (quoted by Judy Franklin and Ellyn Davis in The Physics of Heaven: Exploring the Mysteries of God in Sound, Light, Energy, Vibrations, and Quantum Physics, Chapter 4: “Recovering Our Spiritual Inheritance,” Shippensburg, Penn.: Destiny Image Publishers, Inc., 2012). Whether sincere or facetious, the practice of grave sucking, grave soaking, or mantle grabbing has led many believers astray.
To visit the grave of a departed man or woman of God could certainly be a blessing or offer encouragement of faith through personal reflection, but any positive effects would come from God Himself (James 1:17)—not from the bones of the dead or some kind of mystical power trapped therein. All believers are already anointed, chosen for a specific purpose in furthering God’s Kingdom (2 Corinthians 1:21–22; 1 John 2:20). We need go no further than on our knees to find true purpose from God (Romans 12:2). We walk by faith, not by sight, and not by sucking.’
https://www.gotquestions.org/grave-sucking.html
I think this answers a few of Willie’s questions, at least about this garbage. The more I think about this, the more deluded I think people are about how to seek God, and the more Biblically illiterate I realize the average person is today. Just sad!
Answer: Grave sucking, also known as grave soaking or mantle grabbing, is the act of lying across the physical grave of a deceased preacher or evangelist for the purpose of “pulling out” the power of the Holy Spirit, a power that was purportedly “trapped” within the body upon the person’s death. The aberrant practice of grave sucking was initiated within the Charismatic movement and Word of Faith teachings, which are an amalgamation of orthodox Christianity and mysticism. Videos and images across the internet show grave suckers kneeling at or lying across the grave plots or gravestones of famous figures such as C. S. Lewis, John Calvin, or Charles Finney in hopes of “grabbing” the abandoned spiritual mantle or “soaking up” an anointing like a sponge.
Grave sucking or mantle grabbing is based upon the idea that the spiritual calling of an individual who has died may be reclaimed and used by another person. The theory is that God uses the Holy Spirit to “anoint” certain believers with a specific purpose, such as healing or prophecy, but, when the person dies, God’s work is thwarted. Thus, the Holy Spirit is “wasted,” lying upon the bones and unable to continue the calling. Unrecovered anointing is apparently available to anyone who would physically come and claim it. This superstitious practice is blatantly unbiblical, spiritually dangerous, and tremendously misleading for uninformed believers.
All power comes from God (Job 26:14; Matthew 19:26)—not from gravesites. Our individual life’s purpose is given by God Himself (1 Corinthians 7:17); another believer’s empowerment cannot be “sucked out” or “grabbed” from a corpse. To ascribe spiritual power to the bones of the dead, no matter how godly the deceased was in life, is idolatry (Exodus 20:3; Isaiah 42:8; John 4:24). The Holy Spirit resides in every believer (John 14:16–17; 1 Corinthians 6:19–20)—not just “anointed saints.” The Holy Spirit cannot be trapped by the death of a human being; the teaching of grave sucking objectifies the Holy Spirit and limits His power to certain locales.
A possible “proof text” for grave sucking is 2 King 13:21, in which a dead man is thrown into an open grave, and, when his body touches the bones of Elisha, the man is resurrected. This biblical account could be used to show that power or “anointing” is still present in a prophet’s bones after death. However, there is a major difference between the biblical event and the modern concept of grave sucking, namely, the recipient of the power was dead. No one was seeking a mantle or an anointing; God simply chose to perform a resurrection, honoring the memory of His prophet in the process.
At its root, grave sucking is founded upon a misunderstanding of the mantle or cloak the prophets of the Bible sometimes wore as a sign of their calling from God (1 Kings 19:13; 1 Samuel 15:27). Most well-known is the story of the prophet Elijah passing his mantle on to his protégé Elisha. The Bible shows Elijah using his cloak as a symbol of his ministry and God’s authority (1 Kings 19:15–16, 19; 2 Kings 2:1–11). After Elijah was translated into heaven, Elisha picked up the mantle and became Israel’s new prophet (2 Kings 2:14). The passing of the mantle was a symbolic act, however; a physical object has no inherent spiritual power. Like many Old Testament objects and events, the mantle was “a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves” (Hebrews 10:1).
The grave sucking phenomenon originated in Bill Johnson’s Bethel Church in Redding, California, an organization associated with other unconventional practices such as Sozo prayer and heretical movements such as the Toronto Blessing and the New Apostolic Reformation. Conflicting sources claim grave sucking is an ongoing joke among students from the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry, which, if true, would be a tragic mishandling of biblical truth (2 Timothy 2:15). Even Charismamag, a Charismatic magazine, condemns grave sucking in no uncertain terms. Yet Bill Johnson says in the book Physics of Heaven, “There are anointings, mantles, revelations and mysteries that have lain unclaimed, literally where they were left, because the generation that walked in them never passed them on. I believe it’s possible for us to recover realms of anointing, realms of insight, realms of God that have been untended for decades simply by choosing to reclaim them and perpetuate them for future generations” (quoted by Judy Franklin and Ellyn Davis in The Physics of Heaven: Exploring the Mysteries of God in Sound, Light, Energy, Vibrations, and Quantum Physics, Chapter 4: “Recovering Our Spiritual Inheritance,” Shippensburg, Penn.: Destiny Image Publishers, Inc., 2012). Whether sincere or facetious, the practice of grave sucking, grave soaking, or mantle grabbing has led many believers astray.
To visit the grave of a departed man or woman of God could certainly be a blessing or offer encouragement of faith through personal reflection, but any positive effects would come from God Himself (James 1:17)—not from the bones of the dead or some kind of mystical power trapped therein. All believers are already anointed, chosen for a specific purpose in furthering God’s Kingdom (2 Corinthians 1:21–22; 1 John 2:20). We need go no further than on our knees to find true purpose from God (Romans 12:2). We walk by faith, not by sight, and not by sucking.’
https://www.gotquestions.org/grave-sucking.html
I think this answers a few of Willie’s questions, at least about this garbage. The more I think about this, the more deluded I think people are about how to seek God, and the more Biblically illiterate I realize the average person is today. Just sad!
Ok, your scripture is exactly the point that Willie was making yesterday. He quoted Gamaliel, the Pharisee that taught Paul, and who was also thought by many to be a secret believer like Nicodemus. What if they were told to do this? Then all this discord is compared to fighting against the work of God.
If its not the Lord, He will deal with it. That's my point, and your scripture is saying the same. So you in a sense have backed both of us.
And who are you fearful of ending up in hell? Us? Or those who are ministering to new age people?
Ive had people say to me that using the 4 spiritual laws booklets are wrong too.
We all would be of more more benefit to this matter if we were praying about it and not debating one another.
Has anyone cared enough about their souls to pray for them?