🖐️🔥 Laying hands for healing today?

[CS1]

I didn't have any problem understanding what you meant with this post. I agreed with you on this subject. Do you have any questions where I stand on the phony false gospel preachers like Hinn, or is it just cs1?

the video was just as I thought. I am going to fill you in on those like this:

1. I confront them directly as a minister. Have you ever heard of Apostle Kathryn Krick ?
I confronted her personally and created a thread in which I exposed her false teaching right on CC. In addition, I have been in ministry since I was 16; I am 58 now and still going. All Glory to God.

The word of God says to do it that way. Do you know WHY? Please answer if you do. I will wait but don't mention my name in your threads if you don't answer. If you want to have a dialog, I will humble myself to you and ask for your forgiveness right now. You can do so or not.

I will wait for your response to my question. God bless.



what are your thoughts of Apostle Kathryn Krick
I saw this woman on FB and then on Youtube and her deliverance ministry. I am posting this because I see she is part of the church known as 5Fold Church. I am only wanting a biblical response to please to her teaching and what you see in the videos/ Teaching. If you are just going to say...

• CS1
• Thread
• Jan 31, 2022
• Replies: 479
• Forum: Bible Discussion Forum

 

[wolfwint]

First, your attacks are unfounded in the word of God, let alone supported by it. You have been shown time and time again in the word of God, yet you have never once provided one Biblical refutation of my position. You provided your opinion. That's okay.

I think you have a reading problem, maybe cognitive, too. I never said all have te gift of healing. Never said that, but in your mind, you create false narratives.

What the word of God says in context to the Gift of the Holy Spirit all receive WHO believe in Christ. ALL. 1corthians chapter 12: 1-11

says

1. Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: 2 You know thatyou were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues,
to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit

works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.


The text is clear: the gift of the Holy Spirit is for all, and the Holy Spirit distributes them as HE WILLS.

But you don't have to worry because they don't exist anymore. You made yourself the final authority of God's word. It is you who think you have the responsibility to validate who has the gift and who doesn't why? Because you have no evidence in your own life, so you attack those who are used AS God sees fit. Please continue

Yep, but I dont spoke about the gift of the Holy Spirit. I spoke about the gift of healing.
You know the verse I mean. The same where Psul wrote that not all have the gift of speaking in tongues. But because you ignore this word of God there is no need for to talk about it.
Show me please the word of God which says that every believer get the gift of healing others.
I said nowhere that God is not healing today!

 

[CS1]

Yep, but I dont spoke about the gift of the Holy Spirit. I spoke about the gift of healing.
You know the verse I mean. The same where Psul wrote that not all have the gift of speaking in tongues. But because you ignore this word of God there is no need for to talk about it.
Show me please the word of God which says that every believer get the gift of healing others.
I said nowhere that God is not healing today!

FYI, I post all of the JAMES 5 CHAPTER in context. I see you ignore that. You asked a qestion and did not even respond to James chapter 5:13-18 Why?

Again, I never said EVERY believer gets the gift of healing. Please stop creating a false narrative. And let's stay with JAMES 5 AS YOU ASKED IF YOU CAN.

 

[wattie]

the video was just as I thought. I am going to fill you in on those like this:

1. I confront them directly as a minister. Have you ever heard of Apostle Kathryn Krick ?
I confronted her personally and created a thread in which I exposed her false teaching right on CC. In addition, I have been in ministry since I was 16; I am 58 now and still going. All Glory to God.

The word of God says to do it that way. Do you know WHY? Please answer if you do. I will wait but don't mention my name in your threads if you don't answer. If you want to have a dialog, I will humble myself to you and ask for your forgiveness right now. You can do so or not.

I will wait for your response to my question. God bless.



what are your thoughts of Apostle Kathryn Krick
I saw this woman on FB and then on Youtube and her deliverance ministry. I am posting this because I see she is part of the church known as 5Fold Church. I am only wanting a biblical response to please to her teaching and what you see in the videos/ Teaching. If you are just going to say...

• CS1
• Thread
• Jan 31, 2022
• Replies: 479
• Forum: Bible Discussion Forum

Just thought I'd chime in here. I was a charismatic methodist in my youth and there were a few camps I went on with the youth group I was with where young people would act like this. At the time I didn't know what was going on, just sort of went with it. Looking back now, I see it was mainly acting out from people who wanted attention, or who were a bit disturbed before hand and exploiting the situation of people susceptible to these displays.

The main point you had is that a christian can't be demon possessed.. and that I agree with. Influenced.. sure.. possessed.. no.

But yeah.. the video I posted on the miracles for sale.. is a critique on the same copy and cut service I have seen over and over and over again in my youth and then when I was visiting friend's churches at university. Without fail, it mirrored this video in almost every way.

 

[wolfwint]

Again, James 5 is an application that Paul said and provided more instruction in the church setting found in 1cor chapters 12 through 14. But if you follow James chapter five, which I agree with and do each Sunday, we have seen God heal cancer, Liver diseases, and many other sicknesses.


BUT let's look at James Chapter five


James 5:13-18

13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is anyone among you sick?

Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.

15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. (If you don't pray in faith, is it safe to say nothing will happen? )

And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed.

(Do you confess your sins to people so that you will be healed? When read in context, there is more to using oil from the text.)

The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. 17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit.


Please remember you said James 5,

Now, many times, those like you say, "Show me that James 5 is not for today! "



James Five States:

1. If you are suffering, Let HIM pray
2. If you are cheerful, LET HIM sing psalms.
3. If you are sick, LET Him call for the elder of the church and LET THEM PRAYER OVER HIM, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord and the PRAYER OF FAITH( no power in the oil) WILL save the sick and the Lord will raise him up.

So, in your church, when you call for the elders, anoint with oil, and pray over that person in faith, are they healed? If they are not, why not? According to James 5, that is supposed to happen. The Lord is supposed to raise HIM up. Why would the Lord have you call for the elders, anoint with oil, and pray in faith to not save the sick and be raised up? I'm all ears.




4. if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
5.Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed.


WOW!!!!! Confess your sins to one another and PRAY for one another so that you may be healed.

Does that happen in your church, sir?

Finally :

6. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

I will break it down for you, sir,


If you don't pray in faith, if you don't call for the elders,and if you don't forgive and if you don't live a righteous life and confess your sins


The oil doesn't work; people won't be saved, healed, or delivered. If you follow "James Chapter FIVE" and those things don't happen when you do them

You're the issue, NOT GOD.

Please note James Chapter FIVE is conditional. IF you read it in context, sir,

If you make this expieriences in your church with James 5, thats great. This is what i said, right?
In my church they do it, I think. I am not involved in this.

 

[wolfwint]

FYI, I post all of the JAMES 5 CHAPTER in context. I see you ignore that. You asked a qestion and did not even respond to James chapter 5:13-18 Why?

Again, I never said EVERY believer gets the gift of healing. Please stop creating a false narrative. And let's stay with JAMES 5 AS YOU ASKED IF YOU CAN.

You disagreed with my post. Where I wrote that not all believers get this gift. So to what other conclusion i should come?

 

[CS1]

If you make this expieriences in your church with James 5, thats great. This is what i said, right?
In my church they do it, I think. I am not involved in this.

Answer the questions as I asked them. Don't duck and hide. James, in chapter 5, you wanted to use it.

ok answer below

________________

But let's look at James Chapter five


James 5:13-18

13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is anyone among you sick?

Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.

15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. (If you don't pray in faith, is it safe to say nothing will happen? )

And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed.

(Do you confess your sins to people so that you will be healed? When read in context, there is more to using oil from the text.)

The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. 17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit.


Please remember you said James 5,

Now, many times, those like you say, "Show me that James 5 is not for today! "



James Five States:

1. If you are suffering, Let HIM pray
2. If you are cheerful, LET HIM sing psalms.
3. If you are sick, LET Him call for the elder of the church and LET THEM PRAYER OVER HIM, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord and the PRAYER OF FAITH( no power in the oil) WILL save the sick and the Lord will raise him up.

So, in your church, when you call for the elders, anoint with oil, and pray over that person in faith, are they healed? If they are not, why not? According to James 5, that is supposed to happen. The Lord is supposed to raise HIM up. Why would the Lord have you call for the elders, anoint with oil, and pray in faith to not save the sick and be raised up? I'm all ears.

 

[CS1]

You disagreed with my post. Where I wrote that not all believers get this gift. So to what other conclusion i should come?

No, I did not disagree. I think I gave you a red X and then explained what I disagreed with. Stop lying. I never said all believers have this or that gift. I have stated that all believers can have the gifts of the Holy Spirit and are encouraged to seek them, as stated in 1 Corinthians chapter 12. Nowhere does that mean you will receive them if the Holy Spirit has other plans. We do not control the Holy Spirit, we do not demand from the Holy Spirit. You come to your own conclusion formed out of your hate and bias.

 

[CS1]

Many times, those who are hostel to the gifts of the Holy Spirit found in the word of God try repeatedly to use Buffoons, Youtube, Social media videos as if it is the word of GOD to prove their position. Yet many times, we see those who pull out a text and use only one verse in the whole chapter and try to build a doctrine but do not even know the full context of the chapter, verse, and sentence given in the text or passage.

Once you provide them a clear Exegesis of the text, they respond with, " I am not involved in this. " in context to James chapter 5 :13-18.

But they shouted James 5!!!!!!! They are ignorant or unlearned to respond to what they themselves hold to but don't know why they hold to it. And say others are unbiblical.

 

[Lee33]

The only one that can heal is God. You can be of great faith and yet, God may or may not heal you. It is up to Him.

Thank you for your reply. Of course it is God who does the healing. The question was whether or not you still believe in laying hands to heal the way Jesus commissioned His disciples to do.

 

[Lee33]

This guy is not a Christian but it shows how false ministry is:

If a service like Benny Hinns can be completely replicated by non-believers, you've got a problem.

Really? What problem does this pose for me? There have always been charlatans and fakes. This trickery doesn't raise the dead.

 

[CS1]

Thank you for your reply. Of course it is God who does the healing. The question was whether or not you still believe in laying hands to heal the way Jesus commissioned His disciples to do.

yes, I believe, as the word of God says, healing by faith can be done by the point of contact in an act of faith by the laying on of hands.
it is not the only way it is one application that God has made available. To God be the glory.

 

[Lee33]

There are those who say the right words....but have vastly different meanings behind those words.

Like "SERVANT"....
Who exactly is whose servant? Are these faith healers God's servants or does God work for them?

Since the time of signs and wonders is over....what purpose is healing today? Especially since modern medicine is available. (Just expensive)
For the comfort of slaves?
Especially ones that are unproductive and never will be?

God can and does as He wishes....but the miracles HE does these days get nowhere near a stage. Especially when propheteering is happening. "And for $40,000 you too can be healed"

Thanks John. Who told you the times of signs and wonders were over? I don't recall the Holy Spirit leaving. He dwells in us. He is the healer. He provides the gifts. You ask what purpose is healing today? Because people are sick & God loves us. Simple.

 

[wattie]

Many times, those who are hostel to the gifts of the Holy Spirit found in the word of God try repeatedly to use Buffoons, Youtube, Social media videos as if it is the word of GOD to prove their position. Yet many times, we see those who pull out a text and use only one verse in the whole chapter and try to build a doctrine but do not even know the full context of the chapter, verse, and sentence given in the text or passage.

Once you provide them a clear Exegesis of the text, they respond with, " I am not involved in this. " in context to James chapter 5 :13-18.

But they shouted James 5!!!!!!! They are ignorant or unlearned to respond to what they themselves hold to but don't know why they hold to it. And say others are unbiblical.

It's usually specifically the gift of miracles, tongues, knowledge and prophecy that are disputed on.

Not the gifts of faith, hope and love. And sometimes not the ministry gifts either.

So it's about the gifts of miracles, knowledge, tongues and prophecy in particular.

But there have been enough threads on this anyway, so I won't debate with you.

 

[Lee33]

Yes. If we are going to believe, let us believe the WHOLE COUNSEL of God.

Perhaps your personal experiences should not necessarily be the criterion. I notice that you have not said a word about what is written in James 5:13-18.

JAMES 5: THE PRAYER OF FAITH OF ELDERS GUARANTEES HEALING
13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
16 Confess your faults [not "sins" as in modern translations ]one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

I would love to see a person with a genuine spiritual gift of healing. But in all the churches I have been associated with. there has never been even one healer. Also, none of those churches exhorted their members to approach the elders for healing , even though it is there plainly in Scripture. What does that tell you? No one believe James, and neither do you.

In my estimation , the gift of healing was a sign gift in the apostolic churches. When the apostles passed on, the sign gifts were withdrawn. You will not find any of the 1st and 2nd century "Fathers" saying they could heal the sick or raise the dead.

The Charismatic movement and Pentecostalism in the early 20th century have certainly made a big thing out of tongues and healing, but a careful examination of the "healings" of (for example) Katherine Kuhlman or Benny Hinn have shown that there really were no healing miracles. Then we have all the bogus "faith healers". "if you did not get healed, it is because you did not have enough faith. Or perhaps you did not contribute enough cash to my ministry".

We should note that no one who ever came to Christ for healing or exorcism was ever turned away, and all were healed -- WITHOUT THE LAYING ON OF HANDS (necessarily). Sometimes, the Lord simply spoke a word, and at other times, people simply touched His clothes. Many did not even expect Him to heal them, but He did anyway.

Then we have the case of Epaphrodites, while Paul was still alive and totally capable of doing a healing miracle. Yet it was fervent prayer for him that enabled him to be healed, not the laying on of hands. And Timothy has to deal with his stomach problems by the use of wine.

Ultimately, God chooses to heal some of His children, and chooses not to heal others for His own reasons. But if every church did what is in James 5, that would be a different matter. God would honor the corporate prayer of faith of genuine elders. But sins (confession to God) and faults (to men) would also need to be addressed.

I'm so sorry that all of your personal experiences have left you with this false assumption. It is from weak, unbelieving churches. It is from 'men of God' who don't know who dwells in them. God never left. His Holy Spirit never left. Neither did the gifts He brings. Regardless of your experience, healing is for today. Whether or not you lay hands or do it at a distance, it still works today. Just believe, brother.

 

[CS1]

It's usually specifically the gift of miracles, tongues, knowledge and prophecy that are disputed on.

Not the gifts of faith, hope and love. And sometimes not the ministry gifts either.

So it's about the gifts of miracles, knowledge, tongues and prophecy in particular.

But there have been enough threads on this anyway, so I won't debate with you.

I respect your point and agree; however, I have asked to provide Biblical text to support the understanding that the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased or only the ones they think have. I am still waiting.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Whether or not you lay hands or do it at a distance, it still works today. Just believe, brother.

Of course I believe that DIVINE HEALING is for today -from God and Christ.

So let me ask you a direct question: Do you have a person in your church with the actual spiritual gift of healing? If not, then it is evidence that the gift is no longer available. According to the Bible (as noted in 1 Corinthians), every church should have at least one healer.

As I said, not one church I have attended had such a healer. And if they were present worldwide, every hospital would be empty. Christ did not spare His power to heal but healed absolutely everyone at no charge.

 

[CS1]

Of course I believe that DIVINE HEALING is for today -from God and Christ.

So let me ask you a direct question: Do you have a person in your church with the actual spiritual gift of healing? If not, then it is evidence that the gift is no longer available. According to the Bible (as noted in 1 Corinthians), every church should have at least one healer.

As I said, not one church I have attended had such a healer. And if they were present worldwide, every hospital would be empty. Christ did not spare His power to heal but healed absolutely everyone at no charge.

that is not what 1cor chapters 12 through 14 state. That is a false narrative. it has to be so unreasonable the text so there is no truth applied.

1 Corinthians 12 through 14 never said there has to be a healer. They state that the gift of healing is given to one as the Holy Spirit sees.


"According to the Bible (as noted in 1 Corinthians), every church should have at least one healer."

That is untrue. you can't show in the word of God where it states in 1cor chapters 12 through 14 that every church should have a healer.

You made that up and added to the word of God. Wow. Paul says it is the body of Christ when they come together. Just as James 5 states.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

When the discussion turns to healing and faith so many in here immediately go to the word of faith doctrine and bash it. And honestly, it's no different than turning God's Grace into the 5 Graces doctrine [TULIP]. If anything, Paul described God's Grace as having the Joy, Peace, and Favor of God which has nothing to do with [TULIP].

But all of that aside, I know God works today. I've seen too many physical xrays of tumors and diagnosis that after being prayed for the next images it disappeared. So you had 2 and sometimes 3 sets of images where here is a visible entity within a human being and next images it just vanished. That does not happen by accident.

I've seen paralytics regain full usage of their extremities.
I've seen stroke victims who couldn't wiggle a toe suddenly jump up and walk and never need the wheelchair again.
I've seen xrays of crushed bones that needed surgical repair be prayed for and the new images show the bone as it was before the incident.

I could go on here and I am not talking about some word of faith baloney doctrine.
I am talking Mark 16 and it happened.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I am going to share something that many here will just deny the possibility of it.
But this is the Thread for it.