1 Peter 3:19-20 and 1 Peter 4:6 different interpretations.

[miknik5]

Anyway, the attachment I posted previously is not contrary of what you believe.

You should have read what the church fathers actually did say...it wasn´t exactly as this poster implied at all...

And all the other church fathers did NOT emphatically state anything close to this...they simply said that HE descended to preach the GOSPEL to those who had died...

 

[KJV1611]

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come

That's who Jesus preached the gospel to in hell. Sin can't be imputed against a person when there is no law.

 

[JohnRH]

Bibles from different versions made a different translation of the specific one word in 1 Peter 3:19 just to harmonize on their respective interpretations. Here’s what is written in King James Version and let us first to quote the whole passage of 1 Peter 3:19 up to verse 20, it says "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." Now, we will focus in verse 19 where the said word has a different translation.

"By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;"-KJV

“After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits” -NIV


These are the different interpretations, according to some, they’re the souls of Old Testament believers, whom Jesus liberated from captivity and brought with him to heaven. The preaching of the Gospel(see 1 Peter 4:6), about his death and resurrection, is therefore good news to them, some interpreters have seen Jesus offering a postmortem opportunity for faith and repentance to these “spirits in prison.”

Others have taken these “spirits” to be condemned souls who rejected Noah millennia earlier. For such individuals, Jesus is confirming their condemnation by proclaiming his victory over them and all his enemies in his death and resurrection.

While some interpret that this happened in Noah’s day. Because Peter uses the nebulous language of “spirits,” it is possible that he could be thinking about Noah’s time, rather than hell. Advocates of this view ask why Peter would mention “the days of Noah”(v.20), if he was referring to hell.

I take "spirits in prison" to refer to the people on earth between the time the flood started and the time they drowned. Their impending death was the 'prison'. After they rejected Noah's preaching and the flood began, they saw the he was right all along. Christ, by the Spirit, preached to them, giving them one last opportunity to get saved for eternity.

It's just a theory, but I like it better than any other interpretation I've heard.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Wait, are you suggesting that JESUS had a human spirit prior to HIS resurrection?

Let me start off by pointing out what happens to us believers if/when we DIE... 2Cor5:1-8, esp.vv.2-4, speaks to this very thing... where the words "unclothed [or, 'naked']" in this text refers to our being "APART from a body, for a time, UPON DEATH [of the believer]"; whereas "clothed upon" refers specifically to "being immediately clothed upon with our glorified bodies APART from having to DIE first (<--this takes place at our Rapture, for the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto" part of the "the Church which is His body" [and before we are "caught up TOGETHER with" the DEAD IN Christ who (it says of them) "shall rise first" (i.e be resurrected [to stand again])]);

Paul, here in 2Cor5:2-4 (and context), is expressing the thought that [he/we] earnestly desire to be "CLOTHED UPON" (that is, be "instantly 'changed' apart from having to DIE first"--no one 'earnestly DESIRES' to DIE), but says that he is "WILLING" to die, if it so be His will... either way results in our being "present with the Lord" (one way or the other!), but he is particularly pointing out the fact that (IF he should DIE, which he is 'WILLING' [not 'earnestly DESIRING'] to do), that though he would "absent from the body" he would still be "present with the Lord" (just like all the "dead IN Christ" are, ever since they have died [this is what the "unclothed [or, 'naked']" refers to in this context, being "APART from a body, for a time, UPON DEATH" [though 'present with the Lord']).
The REASON this is the case, is because Jesus Himself was the Proto-type (so to speak), of what OUR experience will be: See Lk24:36, below:

[and hopefully the following will help answer your specific question = ) ]


John 19:30ylt -

"when, therefore, Jesus received the vinegar, he said, 'It hath been finished;' and having bowed the head, gave up the spirit."


Matthew 27:50ylt -

"And Jesus having again cried with a great voice, yielded the spirit"


Mark 15:37blb -

"But Jesus, having uttered a loud cry, breathed His last."


Luke 23:46blb -

"And having called out in a loud voice, Jesus said, "Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit." And having said this, He breathed His last."




John 11:33 [before His death on the cross] -

"Jesus, therefore, when he saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her weeping, did groan in the spirit, and troubled himself, and he said," [...]

[...v.35 "Jesus wept"]



_____________

Genesis 43:30,31 [re: Joseph] -

"And Joseph made haste; for his bowels did yearn upon his brother: and he sought where to weep; and he entered into his chamber, and wept there…"

____________


The Holy Spirit -

"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken [ * 'vivify ("animate")... empower with divine life... infusing His life in the believer '] your mortal bodies [the ones we still live in] by [means of] his Spirit that dwelleth in you." - Romans 8:11

[ * per "Helps Word-studies" at BibleHub, under G2227]

 

[miknik5]

Let me start off by pointing out what happens to us believers if/when we DIE... 2Cor5:1-8, esp.vv.2-4, speaks to this very thing... where the words "unclothed [or, 'naked']" in this text refers to our being "APART from a body, for a time, UPON DEATH [of the believer]"; whereas "clothed upon" refers specifically to "being immediately clothed upon with our glorified bodies APART from having to DIE first (<--this takes place at our Rapture, for the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto" part of the "the Church which is His body" [and before we are "caught up TOGETHER with" the DEAD IN Christ who (it says of them) "shall rise first" (i.e be resurrected [to stand again])]);

Paul, here in 2Cor5:2-4 (and context), is expressing the thought that [he/we] earnestly desire to be "CLOTHED UPON" (that is, be "instantly 'changed' apart from having to DIE first"--no one 'earnestly DESIRES' to DIE), but says that he is "WILLING" to die, if it so be His will... either way results in our being "present with the Lord" (one way or the other!), but he is particularly pointing out the fact that (IF he should DIE, which he is 'WILLING' [not 'earnestly DESIRING'] to do), that though he would "absent from the body" he would still be "present with the Lord" (just like all the "dead IN Christ" are, ever since they have died [this is what the "unclothed [or, 'naked']" refers to in this context, being "APART from a body, for a time, UPON DEATH" [though 'present with the Lord']).
The REASON this is the case, is because Jesus Himself was the Proto-type (so to speak), of what OUR experience will be: See Lk24:36, below:

[and hopefully the following will help answer your specific question = ) ]


John 19:30ylt -

"when, therefore, Jesus received the vinegar, he said, 'It hath been finished;' and having bowed the head, gave up the spirit."


Matthew 27:50ylt -

"And Jesus having again cried with a great voice, yielded the spirit"


Mark 15:37blb -

"But Jesus, having uttered a loud cry, breathed His last."


Luke 23:46blb -

"And having called out in a loud voice, Jesus said, "Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit." And having said this, He breathed His last."




John 11:33 [before His death on the cross] -

"Jesus, therefore, when he saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her weeping, did groan in the spirit, and troubled himself, and he said," [...]

[...v.35 "Jesus wept"]



_____________

Genesis 43:30,31 [re: Joseph] -

"And Joseph made haste; for his bowels did yearn upon his brother: and he sought where to weep; and he entered into his chamber, and wept there…"

____________


The Holy Spirit -

"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken [ * 'vivify ("animate")... empower with divine life... infusing His life in the believer '] your mortal bodies [the ones we still live in] by [means of] his Spirit that dwelleth in you." - Romans 8:11

[ * per "Helps Word-studies" at BibleHub, under G2227]

Can we do this then, too?

John 20:22

 

[just_truth]

It is also possible that Jesus went and made proclamation to those angels who sinned who attempted to defiling the Messianic blood line by taking human women as wives and corrupting mankind, which was the reason for the flood of Noah's time. For scripture states that these angels were put into tartaroo in chains of darkness. It is possible that Jesus went there to proclaim that He had accomplished what they tried to disrupt.

========================================================================
For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them deep into hell (Tartaroo), placing them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; 5if He did not spare the ancient world when He brought the flood on its ungodly people, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, among the eight; 6if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction, reducing them to ashes as an example of what is coming on the ungodly; 7and if He rescued Lot, a righteous man distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if all this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment. - 2 Peter 2:4-9

"And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling—these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day. - Jude 1:6

=====================================================================

The scripture above demonstrates that since God did not spare those angels who sinned, nor those ungodly people that He destroyed in the flood and condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, then it would demonstrate that the proclamation that Jesus made to those spirits in Sheol/Hades was not an offer of salvation, but proclaimed something else.

I may come to agree that these were fallen angels who sinned who attempted to defiling the Messianic blood line by taking human women as wives and corrupting mankind, which was the reason for the flood of Noah's time. But more thing I want to emphasize the reason I made this thread. How these angels possible them to mingle with normal persons and even to have sex with them;
1.) That these fallen angels were undergone physical birth, not possessing the other bodies of humans. I do not believe that they just only possessed human body to produce their children Nephilims. Can they make their very own sperm cell by the direct possessing to other human bodies?? Certainly not.
2.) That.....

 

[miknik5]

I may come to agree that these were fallen angels who sinned who attempted to defiling the Messianic blood line by taking human women as wives and corrupting mankind, which was the reason for the flood of Noah's time. But more thing I want to emphasize the reason I made this thread. How these angels possible them to mingle with normal persons and even to have sex with them;
1.) That these fallen angels were undergone physical birth, not possessing the other bodies of humans. I do not believe that they just only possessed human body to produce their children Nephilims. Can they make their very own sperm cell by the direct possessing to other human bodies?? Certainly not.
2.) That.....

I agree with the actual words of the church fathers from the post you provided...I do not of course agree with the posters misinterpretation


GOD, who is not a respector of persons who winked at the sins committed prior to the fullness of time, that is, CHRISTś FIRST ADVENT, went back and preached the GOSPEL to those (that generation) who had not benefitted, but had died prior to CHRIST´s first coming into the world...

They too, heard the GOSPEL preached by the SPIRIT (uncovered, not enfleshed) ...and that event was a one time event...

CHRIST took back the keys, emptied that prison and led captivity captive in HIS TRAIN...

I doubt that anyone rejected the MESSAGE

 

[miknik5]

Fallen angels have no salvation...they abandoned their original state and home...

These were people...not fallen angels...
For fallen angels are NOT locked up....yet

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Can we do this then, too?

John 20:22

I believe what your question is driving at, is whether or not I am suggesting we can (or ever can/will) possess ALL of His attributes, and I am not suggesting this. I am only pointing out the places where Scripture speaks of "our" experiences (and what have you) that CAN/WILL BE like His.

So this gets into the discussion of His "communicable" and "incommunicable" attributes. I am not referring to the "INcommunicable attributes"... IOW, I do not believe (nor am I suggesting) that we can "blow/breathe onto someone" and say to them "Receive ye the Holy Spirit" and it happens. No. I am not suggesting that.

I hope that clears up that particular thought. [see something along the lines of this GotQuestions article: https://www.gotquestions.org/communicable-incommunicable-attributes.html "What are the communicable and incommunicable attributes of God?"]



I'm pointing out Scriptures that DO speak of what OUR experience will be (and/or is to be, if referring to "in the here and now")... I'm not pointing out something [not in Scripture] that is true of Jesus but which can never be true of us (tho we be believers), see.

When I was speaking of the passage that DOES speak OF US, I am just saying, that this will only be true of us/in OUR case, because of Christ (our Forerunner). His spirit was commended to God the moment He died... His body, however, proceeded to the sepulchre where it stayed until "Firstfruit" (His Resurrection Day; 1Cor15:20, Lev23:10-12, Acts 13:33, etc etc...). Paul tells of what things DO/WILL pertain to us, which I am endeavoring to point out (other verses such as Phil3:20-21, for example, where it says, "like unto His glorious body" [that is, future, for us]).


Hope this helps you see that to which I was referring. = )

 

[miknik5]

I believe what your question is driving at, is whether or not I am suggesting we can (or ever can/will) possess ALL of His attributes, and I am not suggesting this. I am only pointing out the places where Scripture speaks of "our" experiences (and what have you) that CAN/WILL BE like His.

So this gets into the discussion of His "communicable" and "incommunicable" attributes. I am not referring to the "INcommunicable attributes"... IOW, I do not believe (nor am I suggesting) that we can "blow/breathe onto someone" and say to them "Receive ye the Holy Spirit" and it happens. No. I am not suggesting that.

I hope that clears up that particular thought. [see something along the lines of this GotQuestions article: https://www.gotquestions.org/communicable-incommunicable-attributes.html "What are the communicable and incommunicable attributes of God?"]



I'm pointing out Scriptures that DO speak of what OUR experience will be (and/or is to be, if referring to "in the here and now")... I'm not pointing out something [not in Scripture] that is true of Jesus but which can never be true of us (tho we be believers), see.

When I was speaking of the passage that DOES speak OF US, I am just saying, that this will only be true of us/in OUR case, because of Christ (our Forerunner). His spirit was commended to God the moment He died... His body, however, proceeded to the sepulchre where it stayed until "Firstfruit" (His Resurrection Day; 1Cor15:20, Lev23:10-12, Acts 13:33, etc etc...). Paul tells of what things DO/WILL pertain to us, which I am endeavoring to point out (other verses such as Phil3:20-21, for example, where it says, "like unto His glorious body" [that is, future, for us]).


Hope this helps you see that to which I was referring. = )

Sir, it doesn´t help me...I am wondering if you are suggesting that Jesus is separate from the FATHER...that somehow, HE has his spirit and that HIS spirit is separate from the Father´s...which would mean there are TWO HOLY SPIRITS in Heaven?

But there isn´t...

Because how then is it possible that it is only through CHRIST that we have access to THE FATHER by ONE SPIRIT?

 

[just_truth]

CHRIST took back the keys, emptied that prison and led captivity captive in HIS TRAIN...
I doubt that anyone rejected the MESSAGE

miknik5 If you can still remember, we encountered at the thread Genesis 6:1-2 Revisited. Unredeemable.
You state your case that that fallen angels have no chance of salvation, but those who are in "spirits in prisons" were Christ preached are fallen angels. Will you agree?

 

[just_truth]

miknik5 If you can still remember, we encountered at the thread Genesis 6:1-2 Revisited. Unredeemable.
You state your case that that fallen angels have no chance of salvation, but those who are in "spirits in prisons" were Christ preached are fallen angels. Will you agree?

It seems they were fallen angels that became Nephilims on earth those days...

 

[JamOn]

Bibles from different versions made a different translation of the specific one word in 1 Peter 3:19 just to harmonize on their respective interpretations. Here’s what is written in King James Version and let us first to quote the whole passage of 1 Peter 3:19 up to verse 20, it says "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." Now, we will focus in verse 19 where the said word has a different translation.

"By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;"-KJV

“After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits” -NIV


These are the different interpretations, according to some, they’re the souls of Old Testament believers, whom Jesus liberated from captivity and brought with him to heaven. The preaching of the Gospel(see 1 Peter 4:6), about his death and resurrection, is therefore good news to them, some interpreters have seen Jesus offering a postmortem opportunity for faith and repentance to these “spirits in prison.”

Others have taken these “spirits” to be condemned souls who rejected Noah millennia earlier. For such individuals, Jesus is confirming their condemnation by proclaiming his victory over them and all his enemies in his death and resurrection.

While some interpret that this happened in Noah’s day. Because Peter uses the nebulous language of “spirits,” it is possible that he could be thinking about Noah’s time, rather than hell. Advocates of this view ask why Peter would mention “the days of Noah”(v.20), if he was referring to hell.

Personally that wasn’t what stuck out to me, it was the opening statement of the NIV, why did they use (after being made alive) I’ve seen things like this many of times in the NIV a personal theory and not the actual translation.

 

[garee]

I may come to agree that these were fallen angels who sinned who attempted to defiling the Messianic blood line by taking human women as wives and corrupting mankind, which was the reason for the flood of Noah's time. But more thing I want to emphasize the reason I made this thread. How these angels possible them to mingle with normal persons and even to have sex with them;
1.) That these fallen angels were undergone physical birth, not possessing the other bodies of humans. I do not believe that they just only possessed human body to produce their children Nephilims. Can they make their very own sperm cell by the direct possessing to other human bodies?? Certainly not.
2.) That.....

If we begin with a false foundation " wrestling against flesh and blood" (the thing seen ) it will produce that fruit. (no faith)

What God inspires from heaven the father of lies from earth turns it upside down. Taking away the understanding of the Potter.

Isaiah 29:16Easy-to-Read Version You turn things upside down. You think the clay is equal to the potter. You think that something that is made can tell the one who made it, “You did not make me!” This is like a pot telling its maker, “You know nothing.

Lying apposing spirits don't have literal body made up of lifeless dust . Simply dust in the wind. The false doctrines of men influenced by the god of this world


It is why the father of lies, a false messenger or false prophet had no other alterative and put his words on the mouth of a creature seen. . .It lost it ability to walk . And the glory of God that worked in mankind departed revealing the nakedness' of mankind without God.

The bible does not say lying spirits have a literal earthen body.

If demons where more than lying spirts then we would wrestles against flesh and blood. We walk by faith it works in us to both will and do the good pleasure of God making our burden lighter .

The idea of Giant flesh and blood angels . . . Hollywood . We walk by faith as it works in us therefore we can believe Him not seen.

 

[miknik5]

miknik5 If you can still remember, we encountered at the thread Genesis 6:1-2 Revisited. Unredeemable.
You state your case that that fallen angels have no chance of salvation, but those who are in "spirits in prisons" were Christ preached are fallen angels. Will you agree?

No I do not agree to that at all.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I may come to agree that these were fallen angels who sinned who attempted to defiling the Messianic blood line by taking human women as wives and corrupting mankind, which was the reason for the flood of Noah's time. But more thing I want to emphasize the reason I made this thread. How these angels possible them to mingle with normal persons and even to have sex with them;
1.) That these fallen angels were undergone physical birth, not possessing the other bodies of humans. I do not believe that they just only possessed human body to produce their children Nephilims. Can they make their very own sperm cell by the direct possessing to other human bodies?? Certainly not.
2.) That.....

Remember, angels can take on any form they want. A good example of this was when the Lord and two angels came to Abraham. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah told Lot to send out those men so that they could have sexual relations with them. I don't believe that those angels possessed human beings, but they themselves had sexual relations with those women they chose. There is just no scripture that even suggests that it was through possessing a human male.

 

[just_truth]

Remember, angels can take on any form they want. A good example of this was when the Lord and two angels came to Abraham. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah told Lot to send out those men so that they could have sexual relations with them. I don't believe that those angels possessed human beings, but they themselves had sexual relations with those women they chose. There is just no scripture that even suggests that it was through possessing a human male.

Ahwatukee let me ask you, who are those Nephilims?

 

[just_truth]

Remember, angels can take on any form they want. A good example of this was when the Lord and two angels came to Abraham. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah told Lot to send out those men so that they could have sexual relations with them. I don't believe that those angels possessed human beings, but they themselves had sexual relations with those women they chose. There is just no scripture that even suggests that it was through possessing a human male.

Do you mean that angels can take any form they want and can be physically sexual intercourse with humans? Is that they can physically produce their own sperm cells that will reproduce Nephilim babies?

 

[oyster67]

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come

That's who Jesus preached the gospel to in hell. Sin can't be imputed against a person when there is no law.

Do you think that gets Adam and all the rest of us the hook? It appears that sin was imputed to Him and that there was a type of law in effect even then. You are correct about Jesus preaching the Gospel in Hell. Jesus did not go there to preach the Law. Note the word 'nevertheless' in Romans 5:14.

Also see Romans 1:

1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[KJV1611]

Do you think that gets Adam and all the rest of us the hook? It appears that sin was imputed to Him and that there was a type of law in effect even then. You are correct about Jesus preaching the Gospel in Hell. Jesus did not go there to preach the Law. Note the word 'nevertheless' in Romans 5:14.

Also see Romans 1:

1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
The bible is clear, sin was not imputed to those that lived before the law. The bible also says Jesus went and preached to them, they were exposed to the law. That's all we can say. Were they given a chance to repent? I don't know, probably, but the bible doesn't say one way or the other as far as I know.