100 Percent Proof that there is No Rapture

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Jul 22, 2014
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#41
What is another bread crumb or clue that the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is true? Well, when we want to verify a truth within God's Word, we know that the Bible testifies of itself by the fact that it repeats the same message or idea over and over thru out the whole of Scripture.

So one came make the parallel that...

1. The Church is sent out to spread the Gospel (Revelation 1)
2. Some in the Church are warned of His Return & Judgment (Revelation 2-3)
3. Rapture of Faithful Church (Revelation 4)
4. Judgment of Daniel's 70th Week Begins that will bring the End (Revelation 6)

In fact, the same parallel can be made with Noah and the Flood, too.

For there were 3 groups of people facing the Judgment of the Flood:

1. Those that perished in the Global Flood.
2. Those that were preserved thru the time of the Global Flood.
3. Those that were removed prior to the Global Flood.

For Enoch was translated before the Flood, right?
And Noah and his family went thru the Judgment of the Flood but were protected by God, right? Sort of like the 144,000 Jewish Christians who will be protected or sealed by God thru the tribulation.

So a Pre-Trib Rapture proves to be Biblical and true not only in straight forward teaching but by paralleling the beginning and ending stories within the Bible, too.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#42
Now, the problem with not holding to a Pre-Trib Rapture or not holding to a Rapture of any kind (With a reliance upon just a Second Coming or some other idea) is that Jesus relates a person to someone who thinks the Lord is coming later (rather than at any moment) with that of an evil servant.

"If that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;" ~(Matthew 24:48-49)

So if you are against the Pre-Trib Rapture, then the Lord is not coming now or at any moment but He is delaying His coming to a time you think it says or worse yet, He is not coming at all.

For Matthew continues to say,

"The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder" ~ (Matthew 24:50-51a)

In other words, this passage is saying that the Lord will come in a day or hour when you will not looking for Him. For the moment you ignore His return that could happen at any moment or if you pinpoint a certain period of time of His return and look for Him in that time frame is a direct violation of this verse and others that warn us to be ready at any moment.

In fact, Jesus Christ warned us that if a church does not repent of it's wickedness, it will go thru the great tribulation...

"And unto... the church in Thyatira... And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds." ~ (Revelation 2:18, 21-22)

How else would an entire church miss out on the great tribulation if they are not Raptured? Will God kill them instead?

Paul had written to Titus and said this to him in his letter...

Titus 2:13

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;​

To put it to you another way, Paul believed in looking for the imminent return of His Savior Jesus Christ. If Paul believed he would have had to go thru the tribulation, he would not have said this.

Also, Paul used the words "Last Trump" in Corinthians as a reference to the Jewish "Last Trumpet" of the Feast of Trumpets. The Corinthians at that time would have had no knowledge of John's written Revelation about the Last Trumpet Judgment because it was not written yet. So Paul mentioned a name to something that the Corinthians would have already been familiar with.
 
Dec 3, 2014
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#43
The Rapture:
(The 1st Rapture or Translation of the Saints):


Description of the Rapture:


1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.​


1 Corinthians 15:51-53
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.​


Clues Concerning the Rapture:


John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.​


Isaiah 26:20 NLT
Go home, my people, and lock your doors! Hide yourselves for a little while until the LORD’s anger has passed.​


Matthew 25:10
And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.​


Hebrews 9:28 ESV
So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.​


Promise of the Rapture:
(A Deliverance of the Wrath to Come):


1 Thessalonians 1:10
"And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."​


1 Thessalonians 5:9
"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,"​


Admonishes about being ready for the Rapture:
(In order to miss out on the 7 Year Tribulation):


Luke 21:34-36
And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


Revelation 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
The Trump Of GOD is the last Trump, the Seventh Trump. The Seventh Trump is the end of this age and the beginning of The LORD'S Day. That means no rapture.
 
S

Sophia

Guest
#44
God can "take" you at any time. That doesn't have to do with the rapture. You don't know you have tomorrow. Death is imminent. Rapture has signs.
 
Dec 3, 2014
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#45
Now, the problem with not holding to a Pre-Trib Rapture or not holding to a Rapture of any kind (With a reliance upon just a Second Coming or some other idea) is that Jesus relates a person to someone who thinks the Lord is coming later (rather than at any moment) with that of an evil servant.

"If that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;" ~(Matthew 24:48-49)

So if you are against the Pre-Trib Rapture, then the Lord is not coming now or at any moment but He is delaying His coming to a time you think it says or worse yet, He is not coming at all.

For Matthew continues to say,

"The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder" ~ (Matthew 24:50-51a)

In other words, this passage is saying that the Lord will come in a day or hour when you will not looking for Him. For the moment you ignore His return that could happen at any moment or if you pinpoint a certain period of time of His return and look for Him in that time frame is a direct violation of this verse and others that warn us to be ready at any moment.

In fact, Jesus Christ warned us that if a church does not repent of it's wickedness, it will go thru the great tribulation...

"And unto... the church in Thyatira... And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds." ~ (Revelation 2:18, 21-22)

How else would an entire church miss out on the great tribulation if they are not Raptured? Will God kill them instead?

Paul had written to Titus and said this to him in his letter...

Titus 2:13

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;​

To put it to you another way, Paul believed in looking for the imminent return of His Savior Jesus Christ. If Paul believed he would have had to go thru the tribulation, he would not have said this.

Also, Paul used the words "Last Trump" in Corinthians as a reference to the Jewish "Last Trumpet" of the Feast of Trumpets. The Corinthians at that time would have had no knowledge of John's written Revelation about the Last Trumpet Judgment because it was not written yet. So Paul mentioned a name to something that the Corinthians would have already been familiar with.
If you have read the file and still don't see that there is no rapture before satan comes, then think about these verses and try to answer the question of who it is that gets delivered up to give a testimony and The HOLY SPIRIT speaks through them.
If they are raptured out, then who will be delivered up?

Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
Mar 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
Mar 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
Mar 13:12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
Mar 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#46
The Trump Of GOD is the last Trump, the Seventh Trump. The Seventh Trump is the end of this age and the beginning of The LORD'S Day. That means no rapture.
John's Revelation was not written yet when Paul spoke to the Corinthians; And Paul said he would rather speak five words with the understanding than five thousand words without the understanding. So the Corinthians would have to know what Paul was talking about. The reference to the "Last Trump" is a Jewish reference. For...

The Feast of Trumpets is called the Last Trump (For there are three shofarim or horns):

#1. The first trump is Pentecost,
#2. The last trump is the Feast of Trumpets,
#3. The great trump is the Day of Atonement.

This is Jewish teaching (of which Paul would have known about).

Anyways, here are some differences between the two trumpets.



  • The trumpet of the church age is singular. There is no mention of a series of trumpets. The trumpet of Revelation is the seventh of seven. The phrase, last trump, has a different significance.

  • In 1 Thessalonians 4, the trumpets calls the dead to life. The seventh trumpet of Revelation occurs after a resurrection occurs (Revelation 11:12).

  • The trumpet of the church age comes as a blessing. The trumpet of Revelation comes with judgment and is called the third woe (Revelation 11:14).

 
Jul 22, 2014
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#47
If you have read the file and still don't see that there is no rapture before satan comes, then think about these verses and try to answer the question of who it is that gets delivered up to give a testimony and The HOLY SPIRIT speaks through them.
If they are raptured out, then who will be delivered up?

Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
Mar 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
Mar 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
Mar 13:12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
Mar 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Who is Jesus speaking to?

His disciples. They are Jewish. One of the major reasons for the 7 year Tribulation is to push Israel to the wall so as to get them to repent. Yes, there will be Gentiles living during that time, but the Anti Christ will play a role in getting Israel to accept the Messiah before Christ returns.
 
Dec 3, 2014
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#48
John's Revelation was not written yet when Paul spoke to the Corinthians; And Paul said he would rather speak five words with the understanding than five thousand words without the understanding. So the Corinthians would have to know what Paul was talking about. The reference to the "Last Trump" is a Jewish reference. For...

The Feast of Trumpets is called the Last Trump (For there are three shofarim or horns):

#1. The first trump is Pentecost,
#2. The last trump is the Feast of Trumpets,
#3. The great trump is the Day of Atonement.

This is Jewish teaching (of which Paul would have known about).

Anyways, here are some differences between the two trumpets.



  • The trumpet of the church age is singular. There is no mention of a series of trumpets. The trumpet of Revelation is the seventh of seven. The phrase, last trump, has a different significance.

  • In 1 Thessalonians 4, the trumpets calls the dead to life. The seventh trumpet of Revelation occurs after a resurrection occurs (Revelation 11:12).

  • The trumpet of the church age comes as a blessing. The trumpet of Revelation comes with judgment and is called the third woe (Revelation 11:14).

The entire Bible is about 'types' that all point to the end time. All of those books were written so that GOD'S Elect would know what to do at the end generation. The way that you know the last trump is related to the end of this age is by the subject, which is our gathering back to CHRIST, after satan stands in the Holy Place claiming to be GOD.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#49
The entire Bible is about 'types' that all point to the end time. All of those books were written so that GOD'S Elect would know what to do at the end generation. The way that you know the last trump is related to the end of this age is by the subject, which is our gathering back to CHRIST, after satan stands in the Holy Place claiming to be GOD.
I provided "types" or "parallels" in Post #41.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#51
Also, not believing in the Pre-Trib Rapture means that you will go thru the Tribulation if you are still alive when it takes place. If I believe in the other views, there really is not much to lose. I will already be in the Tribulation regardless. But if you believe in Jesus and follow Him and believe that He will return to take up His bride at any moment, then you will look forward to His imminent return. Just as the virgins awaited the call to marriage at a time that they did not know.

In other words, a person owes it to themselves to look at all of the Scriptural evidence that supports the Pre-Trib Rapture before they quickly dismiss it out of hand. For it is the only position where you have the most to lose by not believing in it.
 
Dec 3, 2014
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#52
What is another bread crumb or clue that the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is true? Well, when we want to verify a truth within God's Word, we know that the Bible testifies of itself by the fact that it repeats the same message or idea over and over thru out the whole of Scripture.

So one came make the parallel that...

1. The Church is sent out to spread the Gospel (Revelation 1)
2. Some in the Church are warned of His Return & Judgment (Revelation 2-3)
3. Rapture of Faithful Church (Revelation 4)
4. Judgment of Daniel's 70th Week Begins that will bring the End (Revelation 6)

In fact, the same parallel can be made with Noah and the Flood, too.

For there were 3 groups of people facing the Judgment of the Flood:

1. Those that perished in the Global Flood.
2. Those that were preserved thru the time of the Global Flood.
3. Those that were removed prior to the Global Flood.

For Enoch was translated before the Flood, right?
And Noah and his family went thru the Judgment of the Flood but were protected by God, right? Sort of like the 144,000 Jewish Christians who will be protected or sealed by God thru the tribulation.

So a Pre-Trib Rapture proves to be Biblical and true not only in straight forward teaching but by paralleling the beginning and ending stories within the Bible, too.
The message to the churches are for the purpose of showing which churches JESUS is happy with and which ones HE is not. HE is happy with two of them. The two that know about those of the synagog of satan. Enoch was loved by GOD because he taught against the fallen angels mating with women. That is not a rapture type. Revelation chapter 4 is about GOD'S THRONE and it was John that was called up to Heaven, not the church.
 
Dec 3, 2014
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#53
Also, not believing in the Pre-Trib Rapture means that you will go thru the Tribulation if you are still alive when it takes place. If I believe in the other views, there really is not much to lose. I will already be in the Tribulation regardless. But if you believe in Jesus and follow Him and believe that He will return to take up His bride at any moment, then you will look forward to His imminent return. Just as the virgins awaited the call to marriage at a time that they did not know.

In other words, a person owes it to themselves to look at all of the Scriptural evidence that supports the Pre-Trib Rapture before they quickly dismiss it out of hand. For it is the only position where you have the most to lose by not believing in it.
What is most important is that satan is coming as anti CHRIST. There is no rapture and it is called Jacob's Trouble because Jacob will be here to go through that trouble. If a person does not know that they will be here when satan comes before JESUS, they will fall for his miracles when satan claims to be GOD. That means they will worship satan. What do you think GOD will do to someone that worships satan? HE will pour out HIS Wrath on them. All of the warnings are in the Bible, all the way through. If you know this Truth, you will know it's not JESUS when satan comes as anti CHRIST ('anti' in the Greek means 'instead of', it does not mean against) and therefore you will not worship satan.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#54
The term rapture comes from the Greek word harpazo, which means "to seize, catch away, catch up, pluck, pull, take by force" (1 Thessalonians 4:17). The Hebrew equivalent is the word natzal. It is the time when the Lord will come for His own, when Jesus will descend through the stratosphere and take those of us who have trusted in Him to be with Himself. It is imminent, it can happen at any moment; it can happen today, it can happen ten years from now. We do not know when it will be, but it could happen at any time. And so, the prophecy of the Feast of Trumpets will be fulfilled in the Rapture of the Church. It has not yet been fulfilled. We are still in the period between Pentecost and Trumpets in God's prophetic calendar.




However, one of the biggest misunderstandings of the Rapture I found is that it is confused with the Second coming of Christ or what I would like to call the "2nd Rapture". This confusion usually stems from a person not fully grasping the necessary different steps in marriage and how it relates to Christ and His Bride (i.e. the church). For the 1st Rapture is the actual call to the marriage itself and the 2nd Rapture (i.e. The Second Coming) is the call to the marriage supper.

But, whatever position you hold on the Rapture, I think it is safe to assume that most of us here will all agree that the Lord's Rapture of His church is analogous to marriage in some way and that there is some kind of call announcing it.

In fact, there is a great New Testament passage that talks about marriage and a call being made. It is the parable of the Ten Virgins (Matthew 25:1-13). A parable that is about a bridegroom putting out the call for marriage and ten virgins being properly ready for that call so that they could take part in his wedding ceremony. For these virgins did not know the hour of his call for they were surprised at midnight by it while they were asleep. They had to be ready with enough oil in their lamps in order to see and walk at night in order to reach the location of the wedding ceremony. In other words, Christians are the Brides who have to be properly prepared for the call of their Bridegroom, who is Christ. For He could come at an hour or a day that they do not know.

In addition, the Scriptures also tells us about a wedding and a call going forth within the Old Testament, too.

For According to Genesis 41:45 and Psalm 81:3, Joseph had blown the trumpet on the new moon during the feast day through out the land of Egypt just after receiving permission to marry Asenath.

So when Joseph went out through the land of Egypt:

Genesis 41:45-46 (Joseph had received Asenath to marry)

And Pharaoh called Joseph's name Zaphnathpaaneah; and he gave him to wife Asenath the daughter of Potipherah priest of On. And Joseph went out over all the land of Egypt. And Joseph was thirty years old when he stood before Pharaoh king of Egypt. And Joseph went out from the presence of Pharaoh, and went through out all the land of Egypt.


Psalm 81:3-5 (Joseph had blown the trumpet on feast day within the new moon)

Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day. For this was a statute for Israel, and a law of the God of Jacob. This he ordained in Joseph for a testimony, when he went out through the land of Egypt: where I heard a language that I understood not.


Wow, isn't that amazing? Here we have the receiving of the bride and the blowing of the trumpet on the new moon within the feast of days. A wedding and a trumpet call both being made!

Now, is there any significance to this Feast of Days and this New Moon in relation to the Rapture?

I believe there is. In accordance with the ancient Jews:

The feast of days mentioned here in the Bible is the Jewish Feast of Trumpets.

It is also called the Yom Teruah, and it is the day that is marked on most calendars as Rosh Hashanah and is followed ten days later by the Day of Atonement. Yom Teruah means “Day of Shouting” and can refer to the shout of a trumpet or a voice. It’s a day of remembrance and shouting, or Zicharon Teruah meaning remembrance shouting.

Now, before looking further into the theological meaning of the Feast of the Trumpets, it might be well to clarify how this feast became known as Rosh Hashanah, "the beginning of the year," though it was observed on the first day of the seventh month.

The answer to this apparent contradiction is found in the fact that the Jews had both a religious and civil calendar. The religious calendar, which regulated the festivals, began in the spring, in accordance with God’s command at the time of the Exodus: "This month shall be for you the beginning of months; it shall be the first month of the year for your" (Exodus 12:2) (Deuteronomy 16:1). The first month in the religious year was the month in which the Israelites left Egypt and celebrated Passover, the feast of their redemption. It was originally called Abib "the month of the ears," but after the Babylonian exile was named Nisan. It began at our new moon of our March or April.

The civil and agricultural year, as well as the sabbatical and jubilee years, began in the autumn with the seventh month, which after the Babylonian exile became known as Tishri. If it seems strange that the Jews should begin their civil year on the seventh month, it may be well to remember that even in our society the fiscal year for many organizations begins in other months than January.

However, the seasonal cycle of nature came to an end with the fall harvest, which marked also the beginning of a new agricultural cycle with the return of the early rains that softened the ground for plowing which was done in October and November. This contributed to place the beginning of the civil and agricultural year on the month of Tishri, though it was the seven month with respect to Nisan. Thus the Jews had a double reckoning, the religious year beginning with the first month and the civil year beginning with the seven month; And the beginning of this seventh month or start of the agricultural new year is celebrated with the Feast of Trumpets.

According to Jewish customs: Here are some interesting parallels of the Feast of Trumpets that can be found in the Rapture:




  • Feast of Trumpets is called the Last Trump (For there are three shofarim or horns: The first trump is Pentecost, the last trump is the Feast of Trumpets, and the great trump is the Day of Atonement).
 
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Dec 3, 2014
271
2
0
#55
The term rapture comes from the Greek word harpazo, which means "to seize, catch away, catch up, pluck, pull, take by force" (1 Thessalonians 4:17). The Hebrew equivalent is the word natzal. It is the time when the Lord will come for His own, when Jesus will descend through the stratosphere and take those of us who have trusted in Him to be with Himself. It is imminent, it can happen at any moment; it can happen today, it can happen ten years from now. We do not know when it will be, but it could happen at any time. And so, the prophecy of the Feast of Trumpets will be fulfilled in the Rapture of the Church. It has not yet been fulfilled. We are still in the period between Pentecost and Trumpets in God's prophetic calendar.




However, one of the biggest misunderstandings of the Rapture I found is that it is confused with the Second coming of Christ or what I would like to call the "2nd Rapture". This confusion usually stems from a person not fully grasping the necessary different steps in marriage and how it relates to Christ and His Bride (i.e. the church). For the 1st Rapture is the actual call to the marriage itself and the 2nd Rapture (i.e. The Second Coming) is the call to the marriage supper (See commentary in Last Half of Tribulation).

But, whatever position you hold on the Rapture, I think it is safe to assume that most of us here will all agree that the Lord's Rapture of His church is analogous to marriage in some way and that there is some kind of call announcing it.

In fact, there is a great New Testament passage that talks about marriage and a call being made. It is the parable of the Ten Virgins (Matthew 25:1-13). A parable that is about a bridegroom putting out the call for marriage and ten virgins being properly ready for that call so that they could take part in his wedding ceremony. For these virgins did not know the hour of his call for they were surprised at midnight by it while they were asleep. They had to be ready with enough oil in their lamps in order to see and walk at night in order to reach the location of the wedding ceremony. In other words, Christians are the Brides who have to be properly prepared for the call of their Bridegroom, who is Christ. For He could come at an hour or a day that they do not know.

In addition, the Scriptures also tells us about a wedding and a call going forth within the Old Testament, too.

For According to Genesis 41:45 and Psalm 81:3, Joseph had blown the trumpet on the new moon during the feast day through out the land of Egypt just after receiving permission to marry Asenath.

So when Joseph went out through the land of Egypt:

Genesis 41:45-46 (Joseph had received Asenath to marry)

And Pharaoh called Joseph's name Zaphnathpaaneah; and he gave him to wife Asenath the daughter of Potipherah priest of On. And Joseph went out over all the land of Egypt. And Joseph was thirty years old when he stood before Pharaoh king of Egypt. And Joseph went out from the presence of Pharaoh, and went through out all the land of Egypt.


Psalm 81:3-5 (Joseph had blown the trumpet on feast day within the new moon)

Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day. For this was a statute for Israel, and a law of the God of Jacob. This he ordained in Joseph for a testimony, when he went out through the land of Egypt: where I heard a language that I understood not.


Wow, isn't that amazing? Here we have the receiving of the bride and the blowing of the trumpet on the new moon within the feast of days. A wedding and a trumpet call both being made!

Now, is there any significance to this Feast of Days and this New Moon in relation to the Rapture?

I believe there is. In accordance with the ancient Jews:

The feast of days mentioned here in the Bible is the Jewish Feast of Trumpets.

It is also called the Yom Teruah, and it is the day that is marked on most calendars as Rosh Hashanah and is followed ten days later by the Day of Atonement. Yom Teruah means “Day of Shouting” and can refer to the shout of a trumpet or a voice. It’s a day of remembrance and shouting, or Zicharon Teruah meaning remembrance shouting.

Now, before looking further into the theological meaning of the Feast of the Trumpets, it might be well to clarify how this feast became known as Rosh Hashanah, "the beginning of the year," though it was observed on the first day of the seventh month.

The answer to this apparent contradiction is found in the fact that the Jews had both a religious and civil calendar. The religious calendar, which regulated the festivals, began in the spring, in accordance with God’s command at the time of the Exodus: "This month shall be for you the beginning of months; it shall be the first month of the year for your" (Exodus 12:2) (Deuteronomy 16:1). The first month in the religious year was the month in which the Israelites left Egypt and celebrated Passover, the feast of their redemption. It was originally called Abib "the month of the ears," but after the Babylonian exile was named Nisan. It began at our new moon of our March or April.

The civil and agricultural year, as well as the sabbatical and jubilee years, began in the autumn with the seventh month, which after the Babylonian exile became known as Tishri. If it seems strange that the Jews should begin their civil year on the seventh month, it may be well to remember that even in our society the fiscal year for many organizations begins in other months than January.

However, the seasonal cycle of nature came to an end with the fall harvest, which marked also the beginning of a new agricultural cycle with the return of the early rains that softened the ground for plowing which was done in October and November. This contributed to place the beginning of the civil and agricultural year on the month of Tishri, though it was the seven month with respect to Nisan. Thus the Jews had a double reckoning, the religious year beginning with the first month and the civil year beginning with the seven month; And the beginning of this seventh month or start of the agricultural new year is celebrated with the Feast of Trumpets.

According to Jewish customs: Here are some interesting parallels of the Feast of Trumpets that can be found in the Rapture:




  • Feast of Trumpets is called the Last Trump (For there are three shofarim or horns: The first trump is Pentecost, the last trump is the Feast of Trumpets, and the great trump is the Day of Atonement).
So many things can confuse an issue. But when there are so many things that go back and forth that can cloud what is going on, the best thing to do is look at the basic facts that cannot be disputed:

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Now, besides saying straight out that good saved people are going to be here when satan comes and that no one gathers back to CHRIST until that time, Paul is also saying straight out for them not to be confused by that first letter that he sent ('nor as letter as from us'). And that first letter that Paul sent was 1st Thessalonians.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#56
Too much to address all, I do agree with many points you made but I find issue with this.

However, one of the biggest misunderstandings of the Rapture I found is that it is confused with the Second coming of Christ or what I would like to call the "2nd Rapture". This confusion usually stems from a person not fully grasping the necessary different steps in marriage and how it relates to Christ and His Bride (i.e. the church). For the 1st Rapture is the actual call to the marriage itself and the 2nd Rapture (i.e. The Second Coming) is the call to the marriage supper.
So Scripture tells us when the Messiah will resurrect those in the graves:

1 Corinthians 15:50-54, "Now I say this brothers: that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.Behold, I show you a secret truth: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible will have put on incorruption, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory."

and in Scripture where can I find 2 "raptures"
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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#57
So many things can confuse an issue. But when there are so many things that go back and forth that can cloud what is going on, the best thing to do is look at the basic facts that cannot be disputed:

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Now, besides saying straight out that good saved people are going to be here when satan comes and that no one gathers back to CHRIST until that time, Paul is also saying straight out for them not to be confused by that first letter that he sent ('nor as letter as from us').
I wasn't finished making my point. Please be patient.
 
S

Sophia

Guest
#58
Also, not believing in the Pre-Trib Rapture means that you will go thru the Tribulation if you are still alive when it takes place. If I believe in the other views, there really is not much to lose. I will already be in the Tribulation regardless. But if you believe in Jesus and follow Him and believe that He will return to take up His bride at any moment, then you will look forward to His imminent return. Just as the virgins awaited the call to marriage at a time that they did not know.

In other words, a person owes it to themselves to look at all of the Scriptural evidence that supports the Pre-Trib Rapture before they quickly dismiss it out of hand. For it is the only position where you have the most to lose by not believing in it.
If a person believes post trib, and is living out their faith, they will be passed over if the Rapture is pre trib? The call to be prepared is not exclusive to a pre trib view. There is nothing to gain or loose either way... Unless a person only takes the judgment of God seriously, but would not live rightly otherwise, and that is not a Spirit filled motivation, but the simply self preservation.
 
Dec 3, 2014
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#59
I wasn't finished making my point. Please be patient.
No problem. :)

I'm need to go do a few things in a few minutes. I'll check back to see what you post. I appreciate the debate. It has been a pleasure! :)
 
S

Sophia

Guest
#60
We don't follow Christ simply because otherwise we will face judgement. We follow Christ because we know and love Him.
Wrath is not just some incentive to follow Christ. That is a false interpretation. Wrath is assured judgement, because God is just. The truth of judgement is shared so no man is without excuse.
 
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