Puzzled, Why Not Talk to God About the Sabbath?
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If one is a follower of Messiah, they are Israyl:
Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."
Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."
Galations 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."
Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what Yahweh says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying; Yahweh has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what Yahweh says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YAHWEH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."
Matt 12:12 "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."
Exodus 31:13, "Speak also to the children of Israyl, saying; Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for they are a *sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am Yahweh Who sanctifies you, and makes you holy."
*sign=Word #226, Hebrew Dictionary,Strong's Exhaustive Concordance,
meaning mark, token, sign, consent, flag, evidence of consent.
Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."
Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."
Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."
Galations 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."
Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what Yahweh says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying; Yahweh has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what Yahweh says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YAHWEH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."
Matt 12:12 "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."
Exodus 31:13, "Speak also to the children of Israyl, saying; Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for they are a *sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am Yahweh Who sanctifies you, and makes you holy."
*sign=Word #226, Hebrew Dictionary,Strong's Exhaustive Concordance,
meaning mark, token, sign, consent, flag, evidence of consent.
Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."
That was spoken to Jews was it not?
Exodus 31:13 (NIV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "Say to the Israelites, 'You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.
Exodus 31:16-17 (NIV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.'"
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1 John 3:4King James Version (KJV) [SUP]4 [/SUP]Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Now think on this logically.....if sin is a transgression of the Law, wouldn't that mean that if you don't want to sin you have to know all the "rules" of the Law and you have to insure that you don't transgress those rules of Law.
Now perhaps you won't get saved by following all the rules because there is an additional requirement that you believe in Jesus.
But I still think if you don't want to be a sinner, [We know God doesn't like sin] you have to obey the Law.
The Sabbath is among the top ten rules. Most of you probably obey all the other rules on keeping idols, taking God's name in vain, honoring Mom and Dad, murder, adultery, stealing, false witness, and coveting.
But why do you fail to observe the the 7th day sabbath?
Did Paul instruct you to disregard the Law?
If you disregarded the Law wouldn't that make you a sinner?
Do sinners go to Heaven even if they believe in Jesus?
Can you really believe in Jesus if you are a sinner doing what he hates?
Doesn't this obligate you to follow the Law? Observe the Sabbath?
Now think on this logically.....if sin is a transgression of the Law, wouldn't that mean that if you don't want to sin you have to know all the "rules" of the Law and you have to insure that you don't transgress those rules of Law.
Now perhaps you won't get saved by following all the rules because there is an additional requirement that you believe in Jesus.
But I still think if you don't want to be a sinner, [We know God doesn't like sin] you have to obey the Law.
The Sabbath is among the top ten rules. Most of you probably obey all the other rules on keeping idols, taking God's name in vain, honoring Mom and Dad, murder, adultery, stealing, false witness, and coveting.
But why do you fail to observe the the 7th day sabbath?
Did Paul instruct you to disregard the Law?
If you disregarded the Law wouldn't that make you a sinner?
Do sinners go to Heaven even if they believe in Jesus?
Can you really believe in Jesus if you are a sinner doing what he hates?
Doesn't this obligate you to follow the Law? Observe the Sabbath?
Post #386 showed followers of Messiah are Israylites.
And Scriptually speaking, Sabbath has always ben for all followers of Yah: CLEARLY WRITTEN HERE:
Isayah 56 said, "Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."
and it was always this way, gentiles were always allowed, the pharisees kept them out, with their "oral law*" (*self made law) but Moses let them in, because Yah told him to.
Exodus 12:48-49, "And when a stranger lives among you and wants to sacrifice the Passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near, and sacrifice it; and he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. One Law shall be for the nativeborn and for the stranger who dwells among you."
Numbers 15:15-16, "One ordinance shall be for you of the congregation, and for the stranger who sojourns with you, as an ordinance forever throughout your generations. As you are, so shall the stranger be in front of Yahweh. One Law and one manner shall be for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you."
And Scriptually speaking, Sabbath has always ben for all followers of Yah: CLEARLY WRITTEN HERE:
Isayah 56 said, "Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."
and it was always this way, gentiles were always allowed, the pharisees kept them out, with their "oral law*" (*self made law) but Moses let them in, because Yah told him to.
Exodus 12:48-49, "And when a stranger lives among you and wants to sacrifice the Passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near, and sacrifice it; and he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. One Law shall be for the nativeborn and for the stranger who dwells among you."
Numbers 15:15-16, "One ordinance shall be for you of the congregation, and for the stranger who sojourns with you, as an ordinance forever throughout your generations. As you are, so shall the stranger be in front of Yahweh. One Law and one manner shall be for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you."
Originally Posted by EbalT5
Matthew 24:20New American Standard Bible (NASB) [SUP]20 [/SUP]But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.
Jesus fully expected the Sabbath would still be observed by his followers at some future time
I think Jesus addressed Matthew 24:20 to his followers. At that moment in time all his followers were Jews. But soon after and before it was necessary to flee there were gentiles among his followers.
But it is irrelevant as to who Jesus was talking to. The point is Jesus understood the Sabbath to still be observed.
Jesus fully expected the Sabbath would still be observed by his followers at some future time
I think Jesus addressed Matthew 24:20 to his followers. At that moment in time all his followers were Jews. But soon after and before it was necessary to flee there were gentiles among his followers.
But it is irrelevant as to who Jesus was talking to. The point is Jesus understood the Sabbath to still be observed.
Isaiah 56
Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; [SUP]7 [/SUP]Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
I think it is evident that God expected ALL his people Jew and Gentile to observe his Sabbaths.
Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; [SUP]7 [/SUP]Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
I think it is evident that God expected ALL his people Jew and Gentile to observe his Sabbaths.
What will we be doing in the kingdom talking and praising God aLL DAY LONG
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[h=1]Deuteronomy 29 King James Version (KJV)[/h]29 These are the words of the covenant, which the Lord commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.
9 Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do.
10 Ye stand this day all of you before the Lord your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel,
11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water:
12 That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the Lord thy God, and into his oath, which the Lord thy God maketh with thee this day:
13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he hath said unto thee, and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.
14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath;
15 But with him that standeth here with us this day before the Lord our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:
9 Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do.
10 Ye stand this day all of you before the Lord your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel,
11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water:
12 That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the Lord thy God, and into his oath, which the Lord thy God maketh with thee this day:
13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he hath said unto thee, and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.
14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath;
15 But with him that standeth here with us this day before the Lord our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:
Once Jesus died He was freed from the Law.
Romans 7:1-6 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Romans 7:1-6 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Why stop at verse 6? I wonder what verse 7 says Mr Word Swordsman?
Romans 7:
7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.
12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.
13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.
"sin might become utterly sinful" breaking "do not steal" is sin and death
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.
the Law is spiritual;
Do not hold back the wages of a hired man overnight. Do not curse the deaf or put a stumblingblock in front of the blind; but reverence your Father. I am Yahweh. Do not pervert judgment: You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great.
Breaking "You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great." is carnal
16 And if I did what I did not want to do, I agreed that the Law is righteous.
17 As it was, it was no longer I myself who did it, but it was sin living in me.
22 For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man;
23 But I saw another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the Law in my mind, and bringing me into captivity of the law of sin, which is in my members.
25 Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.
"I have deliverance"
deliverance from "do not steal" or deliverance from breaking "do not steal"
Romans 8:
2 Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death.
(Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.)
3 For what the Law was powerless to do, in that men sought to defeat; overthrow, fit, Yahweh did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, to bear witness against sin. And so He condemned the sins of all mankind."
Is sin "do not steal?"
or is sin breaking "do not steal?"
(Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual
Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
What is the flesh opposed to?
Following Yahweh's Law?
Rejecting Yahweh's Law?
carnal mind is enmity against
for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh
2 Kepha 3:15-16, "...Shaul, in accordance with the wisdom given to him, has written to you, As also in all his letters, speaking in them about these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which those who are unlearned and unstable twist, as they also do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."
Psalm 19:7-10, "The Laws of Yahweh are perfect, converting the whole person. The testimony of Yahweh is sure, making the simple ones wise. The statutes of Yahweh are right, rejoicing the heart; mind. The commandments of Yahweh are pure, bringing understanding to the eyes. The reverence of Yahweh is clean, enduring forever. The judgments of Yahweh are true and altogether righteous. They are more to be desired than gold, yes, than even much fine gold. They are sweeter than honey and the honeycomb."
Romans 7:
7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.
12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.
13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.
"sin might become utterly sinful" breaking "do not steal" is sin and death
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.
the Law is spiritual;
Do not hold back the wages of a hired man overnight. Do not curse the deaf or put a stumblingblock in front of the blind; but reverence your Father. I am Yahweh. Do not pervert judgment: You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great.
Breaking "You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great." is carnal
16 And if I did what I did not want to do, I agreed that the Law is righteous.
17 As it was, it was no longer I myself who did it, but it was sin living in me.
22 For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man;
23 But I saw another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the Law in my mind, and bringing me into captivity of the law of sin, which is in my members.
25 Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.
"I have deliverance"
deliverance from "do not steal" or deliverance from breaking "do not steal"
Romans 8:
2 Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death.
(Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.)
3 For what the Law was powerless to do, in that men sought to defeat; overthrow, fit, Yahweh did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, to bear witness against sin. And so He condemned the sins of all mankind."
Is sin "do not steal?"
or is sin breaking "do not steal?"
(Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual
Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
What is the flesh opposed to?
Following Yahweh's Law?
Rejecting Yahweh's Law?
carnal mind is enmity against
for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh
2 Kepha 3:15-16, "...Shaul, in accordance with the wisdom given to him, has written to you, As also in all his letters, speaking in them about these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which those who are unlearned and unstable twist, as they also do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."
Psalm 19:7-10, "The Laws of Yahweh are perfect, converting the whole person. The testimony of Yahweh is sure, making the simple ones wise. The statutes of Yahweh are right, rejoicing the heart; mind. The commandments of Yahweh are pure, bringing understanding to the eyes. The reverence of Yahweh is clean, enduring forever. The judgments of Yahweh are true and altogether righteous. They are more to be desired than gold, yes, than even much fine gold. They are sweeter than honey and the honeycomb."
Wonder why this was written?
2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."
2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."