Hell is real... and not unnecessary either

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Jason0047

Jason0047

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#21
Jul 22, 2014
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JOHN1513 said:
Hell exists, but in my opinion, the Bible makes it pretty clear that hell will be destroyed along with ungodly men after judgement

Verse pleases

Your friend
Jeremiah Howell
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You will find a list of verses on "Conditional Immortality" at the following posts I had written here at CC.

The word "forever" and it's related words does not always mean "forever."

Understanding Revelation 14:11

Even further understanding on Revelation 14:11 in relation to other verses that are like it.

What is the "Ages of Ages" talking about in Revelation 20:10?

We gain Immortality only from the Gospel (or in abiding in Jesus Christ).

Poster "Justin From Twin Cities" has provided a remarkable list of verses about how the wicked will perish or be destroyed:

Verses List 1

Verses List 2

Verses List 3

Verses List 4

I believe Lazarus and the Richman is a real account of the after life, but it does not teach that the wicked are burning in flames. I also believe the Scripture teaches that the devil and his minions will be destroyed, as well.

Understanding the after-life story of Lazarus and the Richman.

The destruction of the devil and his minions.
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

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#22
Jan 25, 2015
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#22
jduck1986 said:
I was making a point that the wicked are destroyed. If I was making a point against calvinism then I would have stressed that part.
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Still think my bold is more relevant but why argue about it :)
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

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#23
Jul 22, 2014
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#23
Dear John 1513:

In addition, you may be also interested in checking out my recent post here. For 48% of the 264 verses that deal with the punishment of the wicked are in favor of Conditional Immortality.
 
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GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

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#24
Jan 25, 2015
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#24
Jason0047 said:
Dear John 1513:

If you are referring to my reference in Post #13 about how 48% of the 264 verses that deal with the punishment of the wicked, then please check out my list of verses in this post here.
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Now I am confused! Are you talking to me? LOL
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

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#25
Jul 22, 2014
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GandalfTheWhite said:
Still think my bold is more relevant but why argue about it :)
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But teaching untruth or a lie mixed in with the gospel is not good. We should always be able to explain the love of God and His fair judgments with no problem if we are offering people the choice to be saved thru Jesus.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

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#26
Jul 22, 2014
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GandalfTheWhite said:
Now I am confused! Are you talking to me? LOL
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When I replied, I was adding to what I had posted previously. But then I seen your reply, I then re-edited it to address Poster John 1513. In fact, in your quote, "Dear John1513" can be seen. For he is another poster within this thread.
 
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royalscot

royalscot

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#27
Jan 27, 2013
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#27
3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.Revelation 1
the books said your blessed by reading it, and blessed are those who hear or understand the meaning.

we know the book is a vision or dream. so quoting it as read as wrote, is not the function it was intend for.
interpreting this book and trying to find agreement with each other, would take many many years, to keep it short.
for example.

5 Now Joseph had a dream, and when he told it to his brothers they hated him even more.6 He said to them, "Hear this dream that I have dreamed:7 Behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and behold, my sheaf arose and stood upright. And behold, your sheaves gathered around it and bowed down to my sheaf."Genesis 37

you would have to read the rest of josephs story to see, why his brothers did bow to him.

note joseph also interpreted dreams, ie to cell mates one got killed the other went on etc.

the point, interpretation is a key element to this book. even if you dont understand its meaning you still get blessed.
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

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#28
Jan 25, 2015
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#28
Jason0047 said:
But teaching untruth or a lie mixed in with the gospel is not good.
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True Jason, I was actually joking with jduck about his "Calvinism" remark. Hopefully we are all trying to be truthful to the word God
 
prove-all

prove-all

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#29
May 16, 2014
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#29
hell is an english word, does not mean burning in hell forever.

punishment of the wicked will be forever no more to return,

not in torment forever , once burnt up, they are gone
 
notuptome

notuptome

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#30
May 17, 2013
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#30
Hell was not created for man but for the devil and his angels. God is going to punish sin for all of eternity. Gods wrath will be poured out without measure on sin. If a man will not separate himself from his sin by giving it to Christ, well you see the problem.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

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#31
Jul 22, 2014
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#31
notuptome said:
Hell was not created for man but for the devil and his angels. God is going to punish sin for all of eternity. Gods wrath will be poured out without measure on sin. If a man will not separate himself from his sin by giving it to Christ, well you see the problem.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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This does not really answer the heart of the problem, though. The answer given here is sort of like a slight of hand magic trick.

"Hey, do not look here ---- Look over here!"

What I am trying to say is that one should be able to easily explain the goodness and fair justice of people being tortured in flames for all eternity that goes waaay beyond what the crime actually calls for. But I know nobody here can really do that because it is not fair and just to torture people in flames for a finite amount of crimes they committed against God.

I mean, think of how many self religious little old ladies who did no major harm in their life. Think. They are going to burn in flames for all eternity right next to Hitler. Does that sound fair to you? If it does, then please explain it to me.
 
notuptome

notuptome

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#32
May 17, 2013
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#32
Jason0047 said:
This does not really answer the heart of the problem, though. The answer given here is sort of like a slight of hand magic trick.

"Hey, do not look here ---- Look over here!"

What I am trying to say is that one should be able to easily explain the goodness and fair justice of people being tortured in flames for all eternity that goes waaay beyond what the crime actually calls for. But I know nobody here can really do that because it is not fair and just to torture people in flames for a finite amount of crimes they committed against God.

I mean, think of how many self religious little old ladies who did no major harm in their life. Think. They are going to burn in flames for all eternity right next to Hitler. Does that sound fair to you? If it does, then please explain it to me.
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Not for me to decide. God has given His Son so that all may live. To reject God's Son is to perish the same as any other sinner.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#33
#33
Jason0047 said:
... one should be able to easily explain the goodness and fair justice of people being tortured in flames for all eternity that goes waaay beyond what the crime actually calls for.
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One, why is it up to you to say that is a punishment that "goes waaay beyond ... the crime ... "? It isn't. It's up to God.

Two, if you want that explanation, you're going to have to ask Him. I'm sure He's got an answer. If I were you, I'd be extremely careful about going around claiming any punishment God ordains goes beyond fair and just.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#34
#34
Viligant_Warrior said:
One, why is it up to you to say that is a punishment that "goes waaay beyond ... the crime ... "? It isn't. It's up to God.

Two, if you want that explanation, you're going to have to ask Him. I'm sure He's got an answer. If I were you, I'd be extremely careful about going around claiming any punishment God ordains goes beyond fair and just.
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Well its a good thing that we do not have to question God, because He gives us clear understanding in His punishments of people in Luke 12:42-49 as He shows not all will be punished the same. So everybody burning for an eternity in the lake of fire does not fit scriptural proof.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

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#35
Jul 22, 2014
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notuptome said:
Not for me to decide. God has given His Son so that all may live. To reject God's Son is to perish the same as any other sinner.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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There is a difference between walking by sight unseen with God and His Word versus blindly accepting an interpretation of the Scriptures that leads to problems. For people have believed falsely and done evil things all in the name of God because they probably said it was not for them to decide, too (Which could have easily been based off of a false belief or interpretation of the Scriptures). In other words, instead of avoiding the issue, try asking God how it is fair and just to punish people for all eternity for a finite amount of crimes. For if you knock, it will be opened unto you. If you ask....well, you get the idea.

Side Note:

Also see Jeremiah 33:3.
 
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Jason0047

Jason0047

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#36
Jul 22, 2014
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#36
Viligant_Warrior said:
One, why is it up to you to say that is a punishment that "goes waaay beyond ... the crime ... "? It isn't. It's up to God. Two, if you want that explanation, you're going to have to ask Him. I'm sure He's got an answer. If I were you, I'd be extremely careful about going around claiming any punishment God ordains goes beyond fair and just.
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For one, I know ECT is not in the Bible. For it cannot be illustrated using a real world example.

Second, you don't think I asked or prayed about this issue? Let's understand something here. You will not find.... I repeat... you will not find any explanation that will sound just and fair for ECT. Why? Because I tried to defend it with everything I had and it was a hollow pursuit. I am like a bull who charges for the truth. If I think something is true, I am going to exhaust every possible reason and resource at my disposal to defend it. At the end of the road of ECT there was nothing. No deep profound meaning I discovered no hidden truth because it does not exist. ECT is a lie fabricated by men. Pure and simple. Unless you can prove otherwise of course.

As for judging the ECT version of God: You are gonna have to do better than that, my friend. For if God seriously wanted me to believe something so radical, you would think he would provide many examples or things in His Word that would make this a reality. I know God is loving, fair, just, and good. I know God gives even the Gentiles a moral compass to know what is right from wrong. Hence, why even atheists will agree with me. For they do not follow God's Word blindly and they know what is good and right. How? Because God placed a moral compass within their heart. Some have darkened their hearts, but others haven't, which is good because their is hope that they may be receptive to the gospel. For God is not against true justice and in doing what is right. For when I read the Scriptures, I do not see the hateful vengeful God that you see who tortures people for all eternity. It just does not exist in the Scriptures unless you want it to be there.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#37
Dec 12, 2013
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#37
My bible teaches that whatsoever God does it is eternal...that goes to salvation of a believer as well as eternal condemnation for the unbeliever.....the reason people are ignorant of these truths is beause you have to actually be saved before you can understand the truth....the smoke of their torment ascends forever and EVER......God's ways are eternal period!
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

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#38
Jul 22, 2014
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#38
So you are saying I am not saved because I do not believe God will torture a person for all eternity in fire for a finite amount of crimes? Care to show me what Scripture states this?

In any event, may God bless you.
And I pray that His love shines upon you greatly today.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#39
Dec 12, 2013
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#39
Jason0047 said:
So you are saying I am not saved because I do not believe God will torture a person for all eternity in fire for a finite amount of crimes? Care to show me what Scripture states this?

In any event, may God bless you.
And I pray that His love shines upon you greatly today.
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Don't recall calling you by name Jason, but the truth is the truth...Only God can judge salvation at the end of the day, but there are indicators.........I will not argue scripture with you...the bible is clear...God will eternally punish those who leave this world without the blood of Christ covering them in a biblical manner...WHATSOEVER GOD DOES..it is ETERNAL

Go study WHATSOEVER, DOES and ETERNAL..........Sorry if your mind does not ALLOW you to accept the truth of this......!
 
S

stabbo

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#40
Jan 20, 2015
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(Christian mode on)

Do you think maybe why you're all debating over this doctrine is not because one side is wrong and the other is right, its because the bible has more than one point of view on this subject and both sides are reading it right. Now do you think maybe the reason why the bible has different points of views is because like paul said "we see through a glass darkly" and maybe the bible writers grappled with different doctrines and ideas as well and what they were grappling with just ended up in the bible.



(Christian mode off)
 
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