JESUITS ZIONISTS & CHRISTIAN DISPENSATIONALISTS

[pem]

The Jesuit creation of Zionism and a One World Religion - Throwback Christianity

 

[kaylagrl]

The Jesuit creation of Zionism and a One World Religion - Throwback Christianity

In a conversation on religious questions,Fredric II, King of Prussia (1740-1786) asked Joachim von Zieten, General of the Husars,whom he esteemed highly as a Christian, “Give me proof for the truth of the Bible in two words!” To whichZeiten replied, “Your majesty, the Jews!” The General’s statement reflected his understanding ofnot only the miraculous preservation of the Jewish people, but his belief that their preservation was for the purpose of bringing God’s unfulfilled promises to pass. To Zeiten, the present existence of the Jewish people was proof that God’s Word was true because Scripture had promised that they would remain until all that had been prophesied concerning them was fulfilled. Remarkably, this expression of faith was made in a day when the Land of Israel was desolate of a Jewish population and the majority of Jews were scattered among the nations.


A century before Zieten, Martin Luther also struggled with the significance of Jewish existence,but came to a very different conclusion based on his observation of the miserable condition of the Jew sin his day (sadly, one largely imposed upon them by the Christian Church). Deciding that such Jews could not be those to whom the Bible referred in its promises of future restoration, he said:If the Jews are Abraham’s descendants, then we would expect to see them back in their own land. We would expect them to have a state of their own. But what do we see? We see them living scattered and despised. As a result, he continued to accept the spiritual interpretation of his Augustinian order that the Church is the only heir of the promises to Abraham.I wonder what Luther would say if they lived in our day when almost six million Jews have returned to the biblical homeland to regain their independence in a developed Jewish state whose technology and military achievements are the envy of the world?How different might have been the religious and political history in Germany and Europe (and the world) had Luther rightly understood God’s purpose for preserving the Jews?


The modern return of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel has been called the “Miracle on the Mediterranean.” Such a return by a people group that had been scattered among the nations is unprecedented in history. Indeed, the Jewish People are the only exiled people to remain a distinct people despite being dispersed to more than 70 different countries for more than 20 centuries.


Mark Twain made an observation in Harper’s Magazine:The Egyptian, Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor,then faded to dream-stuff and passed away.The Greek and Roman followed, made a vast noise and they are gone. Other peoples have sprung up, and held their torch high for a time,but it burned out and they sit in twilight now or have vanished. The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was,exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age,no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal, but the Jew. All other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?

Because Mark Twain was an agnostic and skeptic,he could only recognize the miracle of Israel’s preservation, but could not understand the reason for it.


In all of human history there have been less than ten deportations of a people group from their native land.These people groups disappeared in history because they assimilated into the nations to which they were exiled.
The contrast here with other historical exiles should not be overlooked. While other people groups were exiled to one country, the Jews were dispersed to many different countries, and in fact were scattered to every part of the earth. {as the Bible said}
The Jewish people alsohold the distinction of being the only people to have successfully revived their ancient tongue after more than 2,000 years!!
Moreover, the Jewish people are the only people to have returned en mass to their ancient homeland and to have restored their national independence by reestablishing their former state.


Even though the Jewish people did not have a homeland, a common language or a shared history (the factors that historians use to define a nation), they have remained a distinct people. This fact impressed the great secular historian Arnold Toynbee who remarked that there was no natural explanation for the survival of Jewish People through the ages.


Gods faithfulness was seen even in spite of the national sin of the Jewish people in breaking their covenant with God, for the Lord promised that when he punished them they would not be annihilated as a people as would be their enemies:“For I am with you, declares the Lord, to save you;For I will destroy completely all the nations where I have scattered you, only I will not destroy you completely” (Jeremiah 30:11).






When God made the covenant with Abraham why did he walk through the divided animals alone? Abraham was asleep.Why do you think God made the covenant in that manner?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In a conversation on religious questions,Fredric II, King of Prussia (1740-1786) asked Joachim von Zieten, General of the Husars,whom he esteemed highly as a Christian, “Give me proof for the truth of the Bible in two words!” To whichZeiten replied, “Your majesty, the Jews!” The General’s statement reflected his understanding ofnot only the miraculous preservation of the Jewish people, but his belief that their preservation was for the purpose of bringing God’s unfulfilled promises to pass. To Zeiten, the present existence of the Jewish people was proof that God’s Word was true because Scripture had promised that they would remain until all that had been prophesied concerning them was fulfilled. Remarkably, this expression of faith was made in a day when the Land of Israel was desolate of a Jewish population and the majority of Jews were scattered among the nations.


A century before Zieten, Martin Luther also struggled with the significance of Jewish existence,but came to a very different conclusion based on his observation of the miserable condition of the Jew sin his day (sadly, one largely imposed upon them by the Christian Church). Deciding that such Jews could not be those to whom the Bible referred in its promises of future restoration, he said:If the Jews are Abraham’s descendants, then we would expect to see them back in their own land. We would expect them to have a state of their own. But what do we see? We see them living scattered and despised. As a result, he continued to accept the spiritual interpretation of his Augustinian order that the Church is the only heir of the promises to Abraham.I wonder what Luther would say if they lived in our day when almost six million Jews have returned to the biblical homeland to regain their independence in a developed Jewish state whose technology and military achievements are the envy of the world?How different might have been the religious and political history in Germany and Europe (and the world) had Luther rightly understood God’s purpose for preserving the Jews?


The modern return of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel has been called the “Miracle on the Mediterranean.” Such a return by a people group that had been scattered among the nations is unprecedented in history. Indeed, the Jewish People are the only exiled people to remain a distinct people despite being dispersed to more than 70 different countries for more than 20 centuries.


Mark Twain made an observation in Harper’s Magazine:The Egyptian, Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor,then faded to dream-stuff and passed away.The Greek and Roman followed, made a vast noise and they are gone. Other peoples have sprung up, and held their torch high for a time,but it burned out and they sit in twilight now or have vanished. The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was,exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age,no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal, but the Jew. All other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?

Because Mark Twain was an agnostic and skeptic,he could only recognize the miracle of Israel’s preservation, but could not understand the reason for it.


In all of human history there have been less than ten deportations of a people group from their native land.These people groups disappeared in history because they assimilated into the nations to which they were exiled.
The contrast here with other historical exiles should not be overlooked. While other people groups were exiled to one country, the Jews were dispersed to many different countries, and in fact were scattered to every part of the earth. {as the Bible said}
The Jewish people alsohold the distinction of being the only people to have successfully revived their ancient tongue after more than 2,000 years!!
Moreover, the Jewish people are the only people to have returned en mass to their ancient homeland and to have restored their national independence by reestablishing their former state.


Even though the Jewish people did not have a homeland, a common language or a shared history (the factors that historians use to define a nation), they have remained a distinct people. This fact impressed the great secular historian Arnold Toynbee who remarked that there was no natural explanation for the survival of Jewish People through the ages.


Gods faithfulness was seen even in spite of the national sin of the Jewish people in breaking their covenant with God, for the Lord promised that when he punished them they would not be annihilated as a people as would be their enemies:“For I am with you, declares the Lord, to save you;For I will destroy completely all the nations where I have scattered you, only I will not destroy you completely” (Jeremiah 30:11).






When God made the covenant with Abraham why did he walk through the divided animals alone? Abraham was asleep.Why do you think God made the covenant in that manner?

wow. this is excellent! Maybe you should start another thread with this, lets not Give PEM and his antisemetic ramblings any credance by responding to his nonsense.

 

[pem]

Home | True Torah Jews

 

[michael56]

In all of human history there have been less than ten deportations of a people group from their native land.These people groups disappeared in history because they assimilated into the nations to which they were exiled.
The contrast here with other historical exiles should not be overlooked. While other people groups were exiled to one country, the Jews were dispersed to many different countries, and in fact were scattered to every part of the earth. {as the Bible said}
The Jewish people alsohold the distinction of being the only people to have successfully revived their ancient tongue after more than 2,000 years!!
Moreover, the Jewish people are the only people to have returned en mass to their ancient homeland and to have restored their national independence by reestablishing their former state.


Even though the Jewish people did not have a homeland, a common language or a shared history (the factors that historians use to define a nation), they have remained a distinct people. This fact impressed the great secular historian Arnold Toynbee who remarked that there was no natural explanation for the survival of Jewish People through the ages.

My minister said the same kind of thing a few weeks ago in church. He said it was a miracle the Jews had kept their identity as a nation over such a long period of exile.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My minister said the same kind of thing a few weeks ago in church. He said it was a miracle the Jews had kept their identity as a nation over such a long period of exile.

hence the reason God uses prophesy, to prove he is the one true God, and the bible he gave is the true word of God.

a thing these people want to destroy by making an allegory of prophesy.

 

[Sophia]

hence the reason God uses prophesy, to prove he is the one true God, and the bible he gave is the true word of God.

a thing these people want to destroy by making an allegory of prophesy.

The "allegory" doesn't deny the literal. Taking these things as having meaningful application to our Christian walk is simply righting our focus on spiritual things over the physical.
As for the rest of the debate, I've said my peace on the issue too many times already. I think Zionism is a wrong focus for a Believer to get caught up in. I don't think I can say more on the topic.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The "allegory" doesn't deny the literal. Taking these things as having meaningful application to our Christian walk is simply righting our focus on spiritual things over the physical.
As for the rest of the debate, I've said my peace on the issue too many times already. I think Zionism is a wrong focus for a Believer to get caught up in. I don't think I can say more on the topic.

The allegory destroys the prophesy.

Prophesy has a meaning in Gods grand scheme Not all prophesy relates to our christian lives. God uses it as KayKay said, to prove to people who he is, and he is the one, allegory destroys this.

According to allegory, Nostradamus predicted hitler. Although he called his name hisler. with Literal interpretation, the prophesy was destroyed as false. as it should be. Allegory however, made his prophesy possible. which means, he must be from God, because he prophesied. and it came true.

 

[Sophia]

The allegory destroys the prophesy.

Prophesy has a meaning in Gods grand scheme Not all prophesy relates to our christian lives. God uses it as KayKay said, to prove to people who he is, and he is the one, allegory destroys this.

According to allegory, Nostradamus predicted hitler. Although he called his name hisler. with Literal interpretation, the prophesy was destroyed as false. as it should be. Allegory however, made his prophesy possible. which means, he must be from God, because he prophesied. and it came true.

But not all "allegory" is of man-made invention or of personal interpretation. The OT is full of types and shadows, not made plain until the Spirit revealed them. These are the very mysteries which the Apostles spoke about, revealed in Christ.
Passages often have dual meaning, as displayed by the interpretive work of Christ, Paul, Peter, John, and the writer of Hebrews.
Having a deeper meaning than the literal does not deny the truth of the literal... but we are told which one we should be focused on.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Were the predictions of Nostradamus simply guesswork as some have surmised or was he truly a the greatest prophet the world has ever known? In his predictions of Hitler's rise Nostradamus wrote

In the most easterly region of western Europe, a child will be born to poor parents [Hitler's parents were indeed poor, born in Austro-Bavarians frontier]. He will seduce great crowds wit his oratory and will [commonly characterized as the greatest orator in history] make much more noise about the eastern power - USSR [Hitler's greatest adversary]. A new sect of philosophers despising death, gold, honors and wealth will be born on the German borders and those who follow them will have support and audience [Hitler's founding party held these very beliefs and sought to deliver the German people from their sorrows]. Under the saintly appearance of delivering people from servitude he will himself usurp the people's power and the town. He will wreak the worst by trickery with the aid of a new republic, using as text in the struggle the false ideas of the first part of his book
Many will die before the Phoenix dies [millions of Jews perished]. After fifty-five years ten months he will find his last home, when the years 1915, 1921, and 1939 have passed [Hitler born April 1889, died March 1945 at 55 years 10 months] in 1945. In 1915 he will succumb to illness [as a Corporal he was twice wounded in 1915], in 1921 he will have an armed force dangerous to his life [1921, the most successful year of Hitler's new party]; 1939 will be subject to a rain of fire [Hitler's siege began in 1934 and ended in 1945]. The new Nero will hurl into three ovens [Auschwitz, Dachau, and Birkenau where over 11 million Jews perished] young people to burn them alive. Happy they who are far from such acts. Three of his blood Germans will spy on him to kill him [Goerdeler, Leipzig, and General Beck attempted a assassination by bomb that failed]. The new German empire will be in desolation and undergo changed because of the North [USSR, key in the defeat of Germany]. There will be great numbers of condemned person when the heads of state are reconciled [Nuremberg Trials]. But one of them will make sure any difficulties that those who waged war together will not be allies [USSR and USA, allies in wars, starkest enemies in the end].

This is an interpretation of words written by Nostradamus, Even though it is nothing quite near to what the prophet actually said, It is what happens when we allegorize prophesy. We have a man who was no more a prophet than anyone else. called the greatest prophet in the world.

Is not our God greater a prophet than this? Can not my God say, "this will happen" and "this" literally takes place or are we relagated to a point where men who reject God can prophesy just as Good as he does, thus we hold them up as great prophets?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But not all "allegory" is of man-made invention or of personal interpretation. The OT is full of types and shadows, not made plain until the Spirit revealed them. These are the very mysteries which the Apostles spoke about, revealed in Christ.
Passages often have dual meaning, as displayed by the interpretive work of Christ, Paul, Peter, John, and the writer of Hebrews.
Having a deeper meaning than the literal does not deny the truth of the literal... but we are told which one we should be focused on.

true,

But when God says something will happen. then it will happen. To allegorise it to mean something OTHER than what God said would happen. destroys the meaning of prophetic utterances, and makes God no more a prophet than nostrodamus.

Yes God used the names of beasts (symbol) to represent gentile nations (more literally kings)

yet those kingdoms (all but the last part of the final beast) literally came true exactly as God said they would.

 

[Sophia]

true,

But when God says something will happen. then it will happen. To allegorise it to mean something OTHER than what God said would happen. destroys the meaning of prophetic utterances, and makes God no more a prophet than nostrodamus.

Yes God used the names of beasts (symbol) to represent gentile nations (more literally kings)

yet those kingdoms (all but the last part of the final beast) literally came true exactly as God said they would.

But if you take the Prophets literally alone, you end up with the view of the Pharisees concerning Christ and His Coming. The way it played out was not as linear or physical as the literal interpretation requires. Rather than being a straightforward fulfillment, it came as a cut/paste with several definitional substitutions.
To the natural student, it is a mystery. By the Spirit, it is made clear.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But if you take the Prophets literally alone, you end up with the view of the Pharisees concerning Christ. The way it played out was not as linear or physical as the literal interpretation requires. Rather than being a straightforward fulfillment, it came as a cut/paste with several definitional substitutions.
To the natural student, it is a mystery. By the Spirit, it is made clear.

What happened to Christ was fulfilled to a T concerning the suffering servant, Did not have to allegorize any prophesies concerning the first advent, they all literally came true, even the day Christ entered jerusalem on a donkey. to the day prophesied by Daniel. as the time messiah would be introduced to israel (daniel 9)

My point is, if all prophesies concerning the coming, death and ressurection of Christ literally came true.

should not the rest of his prophesies come literally true also?

 

[Yet]

Jesuits....devils incarnate. Bad dudes. Google it.

 

[Sophia]

What happened to Christ was fulfilled to a T concerning the suffering servant, Did not have to allegorize any prophesies concerning the first advent, they all literally came true, even the day Christ entered jerusalem on a donkey. to the day prophesied by Daniel. as the time messiah would be introduced to israel (daniel 9)

My point is, if all prophesies concerning the coming, death and ressurection of Christ literally came true.

should not the rest of his prophesies come literally true also?

They will. But they also are already fulfilled. Rather than focusing on the future physical, we should focus on the present spiritual, and live it out.

Are we to honestly believe that half the book of Zechariah has no application to present believers in their daily walk, and only applies to one generation of future genetic Jews?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They will. But they also are already fulfilled. Rather than focusing on the future physical, we should focus on the present spiritual, and live it out.

No they are not fulfilled.

Unless we make a symbol of the prophesy (my point) and reject the literal interpretation of said prophesy

I am focusing on the present. But I look forward to the future (not my focus)

but I am not going to make a mockery of Gods prophesies, just to make them apply to me, when they were never intended to apply to me.

I am Going to trust God, that he will fulfill his word, just as he said he would.

 

[Sophia]

No they are not fulfilled.

Unless we make a symbol of the prophesy (my point) and reject the literal interpretation of said prophesy

I am focusing on the present. But I look forward to the future (not my focus)

but I am not going to make a mockery of Gods prophesies, just to make them apply to me, when they were never intended to apply to me.

I am Going to trust God, that he will fulfill his word, just as he said he would.

Why do you think that understanding the symbol somehow makes us reject the literal? That's not how Christ viewed things. They can be both a symbol, AND literal. Look at the Tabernacle. It REALLY existed, but was also FULLY symbolic.
It's about focus, not rejection.

If you read the minor prophets, and think "this is not for me, but for the Jews", then your focus is off.
If you read the Law and think "I don't have to literally do these things anymore, therefore this is not for me", then your focus is off.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why do you think that understanding the symbol somehow makes us reject the literal? That's not how Christ viewed things. They can be both a symbol, AND literal. Look at the Tabernacle. It REALLY existed, but was also FULLY symbolic.
It's about focus, not rejection.

If you read the minor prophets, and think "this is not for me, but for the Jews", then your focus is off.
If you read the Law and think "I don't have to literally do these things anymore, therefore this is not for me", then your focus is off.

The temple was not a prophesy, and we are told it was symbolic. thus not a good example, for it does not fit.

Lets look at prophesy. and just pick a few.

1. Jesus born of a virgin in Bethlehem (literally fulfilled)
2. Will perform miracles. the sick will be healed, dead will rise, blind sea, deaf hear (literally fulfilled)
3. Will sufer a painful death, and be risen again. (literally fulfilled)
4. Will come after the 69 weeks of daniels prophesy (literally fulfilled)
5. will be cut off (killed (literally fulfilled)
6. Will be introduced on a donkey (literally fulfilled)
7. will be Despised and rejected by his own people (literally fulfilled)
8. Salvation will come to the gentiles (literally fulfilled)
9. His people will rebel, Be cut off. Their city and temple destroyed, and they will be scatted to all ends of the earth (literally fulfilled)

so if all these things are literally fulfilled (I have just touched the surface of literal fulfilments there are many more)

why would the rest of what God say not be literally fulfilled? Did God change how he does things? is he not the same yesterday today and tomorrow?

 

[Sophia]

Was the coming of Elijah, to proceed Christ, literally fulfilled?

Beyond that, yes, all of the prophecies can be literally fulfilled, and yet our focus is to be on the spiritual application.

 

[michael56]

And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.” Luke1:17