Jesus killed the law causing enmity to cease

[just-me]

"Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression." Romans 4:15

I have heard many on CC teach that this scripture says the law is opposed to love because wrath is love's opposition.
Then in order to cause transgressions to stop, the law was abolished and crucified with Christ.
Without the law we are righteous in the sight of God through faith in Christ, because God's grace is also opposed to the law.
God's grace, and God's law are arch enemies one with another.

"Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator." Galatians 3:19

This verse is referring to the way things were in Old Testament times before Christ was crucified. Now Jesus is the mediator of a better and New Covenant that gives believers peace with God because both the law and transgressions have been done away with by Christ Himself.

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4

Then being justified by faith, we are not held guilty for our transgressions which means the law has been crucified with Christ. If we are foolish enough to observe the law, we heap transgressions upon ourselves and we are automatically under its condemnation the same way we were before we were born again. Who would ever want to do that and lose their salvation that the law will surely destroy and re-establish the enmity?

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:" Ephesians 2:15-16

This verse proves all of the above, and we are comfortable with these things because peace with God is comfortable. Don't you agree? The way this verse reads is that the ordinances are the commandments and laws, and not the Old Testament temple ordinances that contain laws and commandments.

So we see that Jesus abolished the law in His flesh when He said "It is finished" like "it is finally gone now" i.e. "fulfilled".

Now there is a new law because this division and enmity that the old law created has been crucified once and for all. At least this is what some believe and teach. Observing the law is the biggest threat to a person's salvation. This is what I have been taught in CC. What do you believe?

I flunked the course cause I don't believe it this way. Jesus came to change us, not His words.

 

[Blain]

Jesus clearly said he did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. The Law is God's holy words and he said his words will never disappear until things have come to pass, I myself find that obeying the law brings me closer to God

 

[Joidevivre]

Jesus clearly said he did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. The Law is God's holy words and he said his words will never disappear until things have come to pass, I myself find that obeying the law brings me closer to God

The law never brought the Israelites closer to God. It eventually proved that they needed a Saviour who would meet the requirements and be the ultimate sacrifice for their sins. You could never obey your way to God. You just could never meet the requirements no matter how you tried. You might feel better about yourself - but that is not being closer to God.

When Jesus died and the veil was torn in two in the temple, that signified that ONLY His blood opened up the way for us to come into His presence and He ours.

And at the same time Jesus bestowed on us who believe in Him His grace and rightousness - both of which were needed to have intimacy with God. When the Father looks upon me now, He sees the righteousness of Christ covering me - not my own.

All my works are only because I have chosen to allow Christ to live in me and have His fruits flow out from me by not putting up those obstacles that block His expression (I do have to work on this daily). But in the end it is still ALL ABOUT HIM.

 

[Joidevivre]

.............

 

[MarcR]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Joidevivre again.

 

[Grandpa]

The law wasn't killed, it was fulfilled.

What was killed was the pharisaical observance of the law. The thought that someone could be righteous based on their work of the law was what was killed.

Romans 9:30-32
[SUP]30 [/SUP]What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Israel couldn't do it. The yoke of the Law was too much for them to bear.

Acts 15:10 [SUP] [/SUP]Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

 

[just-me]

The law never brought the Israelites closer to God. It eventually proved that they needed a Saviour who would meet the requirements and be the ultimate sacrifice for their sins. You could never obey your way to God. You just could never meet the requirements no matter how you tried. You might feel better about yourself - but that is not being closer to God.

When Jesus died and the veil was torn in two in the temple, that signified that ONLY His blood opened up the way for us to come into His presence and He ours.

And at the same time Jesus bestowed on us who believe in Him His grace and rightousness - both of which were needed to have intimacy with God. When the Father looks upon me now, He sees the righteousness of Christ covering me - not my own.

All my works are only because I have chosen to allow Christ to live in me and have His fruits flow out from me by not putting up those obstacles that block His expression (I do have to work on this daily). But in the end it is still ALL ABOUT HIM.

There is a right way and a wrong way for Christians to observe the law. First that it is spiritual, and yes it is the schoolmaster. The wrong way for Christians to observe it is continuing to view it as condemnation, which we all know we are free from in Christ. Before salvation it was condemning to us, revealing to the carnal mind, and fleshly persuasions that dominated us before our salvation. After salvation we are given the capability to observe the law (not by works) in its initial Spiritual context, same as David and Paul. (Acts 24:14) When this capability is acquired (it's a gift from above) the law stays without change, with one exception. (see Hebrews 7:12-14) but our viewpoint changes because we have been changed through Christ when we are "born again.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31

 

[Jason0047]

We are not saved by doing works (of our own doing) or by keeping the OT Law of Moses. Now, that said, that does not mean we can disobey the teachings of Jesus Christ and live however we like and think we are one of His followers. For to be a follower of Jesus Christ, you actually have to work at following Him. Does that mean, God will immediately condemn a person who cannot follow His ways perfectly in the beginning? No. The Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee says otherwise. For God gives us grace to perfect ourselves in our walk with Him (and to cease from sin). Now, do not misunderstand me. This is not a grace for a person to have a license to sin. This is grace so that they can stop sinning and obey what He has commanded us to do for Him on this Earth. Obey what? The Law of Moses? No. The teachings of Jesus Christ that can be found in the entirety of the New Testament. Are we saved by works because we are obeying the teachings or works of Jesus Christ? Well, it depends on how you define the source of the work. If you believe your works are saving you instead of what Jesus Christ has done for you on the cross, then.... "no." You are not saved by works. However, if you believe Jesus (God) is the One working in you (Who is making you holy, righteous, and who is keeping you from sinning) then it is a..... "yes." For James even said we are justified by works. Not our works. But the work of God being done within us. For Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. We cannot do anything to save ourselves. However, we have to yield to God and His Spirit wanting to work within us, though. For we cannot resist God, His Word (that would include New Testament Commands), His Spirit, and His will. But what happens if we mess up and fail tomorrow or today? What should we do? More works? Well, yes and no. It would be a... "no." because we get right with God by confessing our sins to Jesus Christ and ask for His help for us to obey Him and His teachings under the New Testament. It would be a.... "yes" because we have to eventually in time obey the teachings of Jesus Christ, otherwise it would make our confession meaningless. For we are created in Christ Jesus to do good works; And Grace gives us time to serve Him and His ways and not our own selves or our sin. For we are bought and paid for with a price and we are not our own. Grace does not give us a license to sin and or to do evil. Grace gives us time to yield to God and His works that He wants to do within us.

For are you a follower of your own self and your sin?
Or are you a follower of Jesus Christ and His good ways as given to us by His Holy Word?

 

[Bowhunter2394]

"Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression." Romans 4:15

I have heard many on CC teach that this scripture says the law is opposed to love because wrath is love's opposition.
Then in order to cause transgressions to stop, the law was abolished and crucified with Christ.
Without the law we are righteous in the sight of God through faith in Christ, because God's grace is also opposed to the law.
God's grace, and God's law are arch enemies one with another.

"Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator." Galatians 3:19

This verse is referring to the way things were in Old Testament times before Christ was crucified. Now Jesus is the mediator of a better and New Covenant that gives believers peace with God because both the law and transgressions have been done away with by Christ Himself.

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4

Then being justified by faith, we are not held guilty for our transgressions which means the law has been crucified with Christ. If we are foolish enough to observe the law, we heap transgressions upon ourselves and we are automatically under its condemnation the same way we were before we were born again. Who would ever want to do that and lose their salvation that the law will surely destroy and re-establish the enmity?

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:" Ephesians 2:15-16

This verse proves all of the above, and we are comfortable with these things because peace with God is comfortable. Don't you agree? The way this verse reads is that the ordinances are the commandments and laws, and not the Old Testament temple ordinances that contain laws and commandments.

So we see that Jesus abolished the law in His flesh when He said "It is finished" like "it is finally gone now" i.e. "fulfilled".


.

Now there is a new law because this division and enmity that the old law created has been crucified once and for all. At least this is what some believe and teach. Observing the law is the biggest threat to a person's salvation. This is what I have been taught in CC. What do you believe?

I flunked the course cause I don't believe it this way. Jesus came to change us, not His words.

Correct for Christ is the End of the Law for everyone that believeth.... the Law is still there and it is Good, but it is NOT FOR THE RIGHTEOUS.. but for the un righteous, the profane, men stealers, liars, etc etc... Those Who are Genuinely Regenerated Have Faith in Christ's Complete Atoning Work at the Tree and the 'belief' that He fulfilled FOR THEM what they could not do. 'belief'.. those who try to be justified by the Law today to merits God's Righteousness, you are trying to do something that Has Already been accomplished in Christ and His Work.. you follow and adhere to the Law, you will be judged by the Law, those in Christ, Genuinely, Establish the Law of Faith.. indeed.. this Mystery is shown to His Elect, those outside the Righteousness of God, Faith in Christ and His Work, are still in Darkness.. until God truly Shows them What His Son has Truly Done for them at the Tree, this is why Christ crucified is such a stumbling stone and rock of offense and foolishness to so many.. ITS SO SIMPLE.. Christ's Work on the Tree is Sufficient, My Grace is Sufficient! His Rest is Found in Christ and His completed Work.. 'faith ' in that for Justification and Imputed Righteousness.. its very easy to SEE today on this Board.. who is still' 'trying' to work for their salvation.. indeed.. Christ Crucified, the Power, Wisdom, Redemption , Sanctification of God Himself. this found in His Son's Work, Jesus the Christ God manifest in the flesh!

 

[Bowhunter2394]

For those who say they 'follow Christ'. yet are still trying be justified by the Law, that is Contrary to the Grace of God and the Rightouesness of God which is NOW FOUND and manifested OUTSIDE THE law, IF YOU are claiming to follow Christ , yet are still trying to be justified by following and adhering to the Law, ye have fallen from Grace, either that or you were never Truly Rengerated from On High but sown by the other 'sower'. as he sows his weeds in the end time.. the whole manuscript to Galatia was ABOUT THIS^ pAUL called them the Works of the flesh.. indeed...

 

[Jason0047]

See, when the Bible says we are saved by grace and not of works it is saying it is nothing on your behalf or your performance that you can do to save yourself. However, when you repent of your sins and ask Jesus to be your Savior, you are then saved. Not saved so as to serve yourself and sin again. That would make your confession meaningless. When we repent and accept Jesus we are tranformed spiritually and God lives within us whereby He does the good work within us. So yes. We are not saved by works. But we are saved by the work of God which works in all His true followers. Those who resist God wanting to abide within them is not saved because God (Christ) is the source of their salvation (1 John 5:12).

 

[Grandpa]

There is no right way for a Christian to observe the law. A Christian who observes the law has fallen from Grace. And is observing their own condemnation, again.

A Christian is called to observe Christ. This observance of Christ will be the fulfillment of all things required for Holiness and Righteousness.

We are only free from condemnation in Christ, when we observe Him. See Galatians 3...

 

[Bowhunter2394]

There is no right way for a Christian to observe the law. A Christian who observes the law has fallen from Grace. And is observing their own condemnation, again.

A Christian is called to observe Christ. This observance of Christ will be the fulfillment of all things required for Holiness and Righteousness.

We are only free from condemnation in Christ, when we observe Him. See Galatians 3...

Spot on Grandpa! couldnt of put any easier than you did! Yep!

 

[just-me]

Correct for Christ is the End of the Law for everyone that believeth.... the Law is still there and it is Good, but it is NOT FOR THE RIGHTEOUS.. but for the un righteous, the profane, men stealers, liars, etc etc... Those Who are Genuinely Regenerated Have Faith in Christ's Complete Atoning Work at the Tree and the 'belief' that He fulfilled FOR THEM what they could not do. 'belief'.. those who try to be justified by the Law today to merits God's Righteousness, you are trying to do something that Has Already been accomplished in Christ and His Work.. you follow and adhere to the Law, you will be judged by the Law, those in Christ, Genuinely, Establish the Law of Faith.. indeed.. this Mystery is shown to His Elect, those outside the Righteousness of God, Faith in Christ and His Work, are still in Darkness.. until God truly Shows them What His Son has Truly Done for them at the Tree, this is why Christ crucified is such a stumbling stone and rock of offense and foolishness to so many.. ITS SO SIMPLE.. Christ's Work on the Tree is Sufficient, My Grace is Sufficient! His Rest is Found in Christ and His completed Work.. 'faith ' in that for Justification and Imputed Righteousness.. its very easy to SEE today on this Board.. who is still' 'trying' to work for their salvation.. indeed.. Christ Crucified, the Power, Wisdom, Redemption , Sanctification of God Himself. this found in His Son's Work, Jesus the Christ God manifest in the flesh!

If the law is only for the unrighteous, how does one apply these 3 verses speaking about believers in Christ Jesus?

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:14 (Paul speaking)

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:6-7

Nevertheless, there is no righteousness by the works of the law. The canal mind is unrighteous and that's what the law is for. I agree with that. But it doesn't go away when we are made righteous by faith in Christ. By faith, the law becomes an asset to our spiritual growth. Yes, Christ's work is sufficient for sure. He is the door. Being sacrificed (because the door was opened for us) involves all of the spoken word that is within the dwelling of protection. That includes the law.

 

[Jason0047]

For those who say they 'follow Christ'. yet are still trying be justified by the Law, that is Contrary to the Grace of God and the Rightouesness of God which is NOW FOUND and manifested OUTSIDE THE law, IF YOU are claiming to follow Christ , yet are still trying to be justified by following and adhering to the Law, ye have fallen from Grace, either that or you were never Truly Rengerated from On High but sown by the other 'sower'. as he sows his weeds in the end time.. the whole manuscript to Galatia was ABOUT THIS^ pAUL called them the Works of the flesh.. indeed...

Well, when you read Galatians, you have to look at what kind of Law it was referring to. Was it referring to the Law of Moses? Or was it referring to the Law of Christ? Does grace give you a license to sin and reject the teachings of Jesus Christ with the thinking you are saved? What did Jesus say about the wicked and unprofitable servants? What did Jesus say will happen if you do not forgive others? Anyways, in Galatians we know it is talking about the Law of Moses because it references circumcision (Which is a part of the Old Testament and not a part of the New Testament). Paul says shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul answers with... God forbid. Meaning, you cannot sin. Grace does not give you a license to sin and to serve yourself rather than God. Yet, it is not your works that is saving you, though. It is the work of God (Christ) who lives in a believer that is saving them. God's works and not your works is saving you. Hence, why Paul could say we are not saved by works. In Ephesians 2:8-9, Paul was talking about our works and not God's work.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

If the law is only for the unrighteous, how does one apply these 3 verses speaking about believers in Christ Jesus?

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:14 (Paul speaking)

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:6-7

Nevertheless, there is no righteousness by the works of the law. The canal mind is unrighteous and that's what the law is for. I agree with that. But it doesn't go away when we are made righteous by faith in Christ. By faith, the law becomes an asset to our spiritual growth.

God's Righteousness TODAY is found OUTSIDE THE LAW and manifested in His Son's complete and Atoning Work at the tree.. very simple... any other 'righteousness' or attempts to be Righteous thru the Law.. will fail'.. God does not Impute His Righteousness upon a 'soul' that 'claims to know Him, then tries to fullfill the 'law' out of his/her own power'.. these people are still in darkness.. as PROVEN by many on this board.. lolz. smh.. Only God Himself can show you the Glory of the Cross, and the One on It who Gave Himself there, Its Redemptive Power ,found in the One who was slew on It'.. until that time.. no amount of religious works or attaining righteousness thru the Law will WORK.. those are still in darkness.. indeed.. or fallen from Grace.. so very simple! the Simplicity in Christ!

 

[just-me]

Well, when you read Galatians, you have to look at what kind of Law it was referring to. Was it referring to the Law of Moses? Or was it referring to the Law of Christ? Does grace give you a license to sin and reject the teachings of Jesus Christ with the thinking you are saved? What did Jesus say about the wicked and unprofitable servants? What did Jesus say will happen if you do not forgive others? Anyways, in Galatians we know it is talking about the Law of Moses because it references circumcision (Which is a part of the Old Testament and not a part of the New Testament). Paul says shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul answers with... God forbid. Meaning, you cannot sin. Grace does not give you a license to sin and to serve yourself rather than God. Yet, it is not your works that is saving you, though. It is the work of God (Christ) who lives in a believer that is saving them. God's works and not your works is saving you. Hence, why Paul could say we are not saved by works. In Ephesians 2:8-9, Paul was talking about our works and not God's work.

Is there really a difference between Exodus chapters 20 through 23 and what Jesus Christ taught? I haven't seen that. I study the Hebrew culture when reading the word. It really helps when there seems to be a contradiction between the culture then and the environment that I was raised in. Oh ya "circumcision" is of Abraham, not Moses. I agree with all other things you wrote.

 

[Jason0047]

The whole grace vs. works issue is cleared up when you understand that it is God who does the work in the believer (And it is NOT YOU who does the work). Ezekiel 36:26-27 essentially says God regenerates a person (gives the a new spirit) and He will put His Spirit within them so that way we can keep His Laws and statutes. What is God's Law today? The Law of Moses? No. The Law of Christ which is mentioned in the New Testament. This would be the teachings and commands given to us under the New Covenant (And not the Old Covenant).

 

[Bowhunter2394]

It's funny because if you are discerning, the same ones who are preaching you are not saved by your 'works'.. are indeed the same ones trying tell and preach to you , you are 'saved by your works, claiming Christ and following and adhering to the Law and trying to fulfill that.. purdy easy to see that.. Paul warned against such 'deceivers' coming in to spy on our Liberty in Christ.. lolz. no different today. thats all folks!

 

[Jason0047]

Is there really a difference between Exodus chapters 20 through 23 and what Jesus Christ taught? I haven't seen that.

The Scriptures say, Jesus nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us? What ordinanances are we talking about here? Did not Paul say in Romans that one man can observe all days alike? Did he not say do not judge anyone according to Sabbaths and or observances of holy days? Peter was told to eat unclean animals which is a violation of OT Law. Jesus told us to turn the other cheek instead of rendering an eye for an eye (Which was OT Law). Jesus was changing things. So the New Testament is a New Covenant or agreement between God and man. The OT was exclusively for the Jew. The NT is for both Jew and Gentile. For nowhere will you find any restressing of a Sabbath Command. Actually the New Testament suggests that the Sabbath Command has been clearly changed by what Paul has said.