Jesus killed the law causing enmity to cease

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#21
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#21
just-me said:
If the law is only for the unrighteous, how does one apply these 3 verses speaking about believers in Christ Jesus?

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:14 (Paul speaking)

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:6-7

Nevertheless, there is no righteousness by the works of the law. The canal mind is unrighteous and that's what the law is for. I agree with that. But it doesn't go away when we are made righteous by faith in Christ. By faith, the law becomes an asset to our spiritual growth. Yes, Christ's work is sufficient for sure. He is the door. Being sacrificed (because the door was opened for us) involves all of the spoken word that is within the dwelling of protection. That includes the law.
Click to expand...

It's really simple. How are the fruit of the Spirit grown? Hint: not by your observance of the law...

Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Do these fruit establish the law? Absolutely they do. Can you cause them to grow by your "obedience" or observance of the law? nope.

Why is there no law against the fruit of the Spirit? Because it establishes the Law, by faith, not by works or observance of the law.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#22
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#22
Bowhunter2394 said:
It's funny because if you are discerning, the same ones who are preaching you are not saved by your 'works'.. are indeed the same ones trying tell and preach to you , you are 'saved by your works, claiming Christ and following and adhering to the Law and trying to fulfill that.. purdy easy to see that.. Paul warned against such 'deceivers' coming in to spy on our Liberty in Christ.. lolz. no different today. thats all folks!
Click to expand...
How can God condemn me for following Him and His good ways? Did I not say it was not my works but the work of God who does the work within a true believer? So then how can I claim honor, glory, or power if that honor goes to God and not myself?

Does your liberty in Christ give you a license to sin and to serve yourself rather than God? I say thee nay. It does not. One is either a follower of Jesus Christ and His good ways or one is follower of themselves and their sin. There are no other options. For Jesus said you cannot serve two masters. For you will hate the one and love the other.
 
just-me

just-me

Banned
#23
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#23
Grandpa said:
There is no right way for a Christian to observe the law. A Christian who observes the law has fallen from Grace. And is observing their own condemnation, again.

A Christian is called to observe Christ. This observance of Christ will be the fulfillment of all things required for Holiness and Righteousness.

We are only free from condemnation in Christ, when we observe Him. See Galatians 3...
Click to expand...
How can we fall from grace if it's the word of God. Even Jesus said we live by every word God has ever spoken. :confused:
 
Last edited:
just-me

just-me

Banned
#24
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#24
Grandpa said:
It's really simple. How are the fruit of the Spirit grown? Hint: not by your observance of the law...

Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Do these fruit establish the law? Absolutely they do. Can you cause them to grow by your "obedience" or observance of the law? nope.

Why is there no law against the fruit of the Spirit? Because it establishes the Law, by faith, not by works or observance of the law.
Click to expand...
There is no law against the fruit of the spirit because all 9 are explained in the law and the prophets. The word of God is not against itself. The law has instructions of how to love our neighbor. Leviticus 19:11-18 just for starters. It's quoted in the New Testament also. Paul worshiped by observation of the law. How on earth did he do that? Acts 24:14
 
Last edited:
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#25
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#25
Grandpa said:
It's really simple. How are the fruit of the Spirit grown? Hint: not by your observance of the law...

Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Do these fruit establish the law? Absolutely they do. Can you cause them to grow by your "obedience" or observance of the law? nope.

Why is there no law against the fruit of the Spirit? Because it establishes the Law, by faith, not by works or observance of the law.
Click to expand...
Yes, by ..... "Faith." Faith in what? Does a believer have faith that is merely a mental acknowledgment that Jesus saves them whereby they serve themselves, and sin? is that "true faith"? No. True faith is described as having righteous action that follows it as we can see in Hebrews chapter 11. For faith without works is dead. Many times the word "Law" mentioned in the New Testament is in reference to the Old Testament. But do you realize there is a Law of Christ mentioned in the New Testament? Do you believe you can disobey the Law of Christ? Do you believe you can disobey the teachings of Jesus Christ and still be saved? What did Jesus say about the lazy and or unprofitable servant? What did Jesus say about those who do not forgive others?
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#26
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#26
just-me said:
How can we fall from grace is it's the word of God. Even Jesus said we live by every word God has ever spoken. :confused:
Click to expand...
Because you get a choice. You can choose your work and your wisdom or you can choose the Lord Jesus Christs' work and His Wisdom.

If you go back to the way the Hebrews approached God in the OT you fall from the Grace that is established in the NT. This Grace is established in the NT precisely because men couldn't fulfill the standard of perfection that is required by God.

You aren't given Grace so that you can go back to the old way. You are given Grace so that you might begin to understand this New Way. This Better Way.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#27
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#27
Jason0047 said:
Yes, by ..... "Faith." Faith in what? Does a believer have faith that is merely a mental acknowledgment that Jesus saves them whereby they serve themselves, and sin? is that "true faith"? No. True faith is described as having righteous action that follows it as we can see in Hebrews chapter 11. For faith without works is dead. Many times the word "Law" mentioned in the New Testament is in reference to the Old Testament. But do you realize there is a Law of Christ mentioned in the New Testament? Do you believe you can disobey the Law of Christ? Do you believe you can disobey the teachings of Jesus Christ and still be saved? What did Jesus say about the lazy and or unprofitable servant? What did Jesus say about those who do not forgive others?
Click to expand...
Which of these fruit of the Spirit is not a righteous action?
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#28
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#28
just-me said:
There is no law against the fruit of the spirit because all 9 are explained in the law and the prophets. The word of God is not against itself. The law has instructions of how to love our neighbor. Leviticus 19:11-18 just for starters. It's quoted in the New Testament also. Paul worshiped by observation of the law. How on earth did he do that? Acts 24:14
Click to expand...
While certain teaching of the Old Testament have been repeated in the New Testament, there are obviously many things in the New Testament that conflicts with the Old Testament. The New Testament Law of Christ replaces the Old Testament Law of Moses. The Old has passed away and given way to the New. For you cannot put new wine into old wine skins otherwise they will burst.
 
just-me

just-me

Banned
#29
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#29
Grandpa said:
Because you get a choice. You can choose your work and your wisdom or you can choose the Lord Jesus Christs' work and His Wisdom.

If you go back to the way the Hebrews approached God in the OT you fall from the Grace that is established in the NT. This Grace is established in the NT precisely because men couldn't fulfill the standard of perfection that is required by God.

You aren't given Grace so that you can go back to the old way. You are given Grace so that you might begin to understand this New Way. This Better Way.
Click to expand...
Work and wisdom of a believer is all given through Christ via the Holy Spirit. Backing away from God as the Israelites did, is by the worshiping of false god's. They didn't want the law of God in their lives. They became lawless just like people today that don't want it saying they are God's children as Israel did. David loved the law and he still messed up, but that didn't deteriorate his faith in God. He was punished. Read about the 4 lambs that Nathan described to him in relation to his great sin, and then read about the same thing in the law. David lost his firstborn from Bathsheba. David was wrong, God was right. Exodus 22:1 and 2 Samuel 12:1-15 (note verse 6)
 
Last edited:
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#30
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#30
Grandpa said:
Which of these fruit of the Spirit is not a righteous action?
Click to expand...
Did not the Spirit inspire men of God to write Scripture? Is that not a fruit or work of the Spirit? So then how can the Spirit be against the Commands given to us by Jesus Christ and His apostles within the New Testament? Can we refuse to follow Jesus and preach the gospel to others? Can we refuse to help the poor and the suffering of others in this life? I say thee nay. If one is changed spiritually and has God living within them, then they will naturally want to do those things. Yes, they are saved by God's grace apart from the deeds of the Law. But if they are truly saved, then their faith will prove itself to be true and not false (With the work of God moving within them). For a true faith will always prove itself to be true with the believer living righteously and fruitful for their Lord.
 
passing_through

passing_through

Banned
#31
Feb 1, 2015
1,198
15
0
#31
The Torah, The law, is so holy, but no one could keep it until Jesus.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#32
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#32
just-me said:
There is no law against the fruit of the spirit because all 9 are explained in the law and the prophets. The word of God is not against itself. The law has instructions of how to love our neighbor. Leviticus 19:11-18 just for starters. It's quoted in the New Testament also. Paul worshiped by observation of the law. How on earth did he do that? Acts 24:14
Click to expand...
Paul didn't worship by observation of the law. Paul observed that faith in Christ and Christs' Work at the Law is what caused his own spiritual walk. Paul observed that this spiritual walk and his faith in Christ is true worship of the Father.

You are right that the law has instructions. Unfortunately for you is that those instructions can't be followed by you. They can only be fulfilled by the Lord Jesus Christ and His Growing of Spiritual Fruit in the heart of the believer.

Matthew 15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
 
Bowhunter2394

Bowhunter2394

Banned
#33
Apr 9, 2015
995
10
0
#33
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and Contentions, and Strivings about the Law; for they are Unprofitable and Vain. Titus 3:9 im Finished.. with this.. those wranglings and strivings and disputes about the Law.. for they are vain. because its Been fulfilled and those Genuinely In Christ, Trust in His completed Work on the tree.. indeed... and His Reality of fufilling the Law for them, we will establish the Law of Faith.. not of works.. indeed! Some on here.. need to be Genuinely Saved, if not they will continue in their darkness, sown as their father has sowed them.. folks that is about as Simple and black/white as ye can get it..
 
just-me

just-me

Banned
#34
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#34
Jason0047 said:
While certain teaching of the Old Testament have been repeated in the New Testament, there are obviously many things in the New Testament that conflicts with the Old Testament. The New Testament Law of Christ replaces the Old Testament Law of Moses. The Old has passed away and given way to the New. For you cannot put new wine into old wine skins otherwise they will burst.
Click to expand...
If that is the case the Word contradicts itself. Too bad that so many do not understand that Jesus Christ our Lord created all things and He is the same yesterday today and forever. Heaven and earth are still here. Even though new wine cannot be fermented in an old skin, doesn't mean you have to refuse the fermented wine in the old skin. Drink it first as God planned, and then throw the old skin away. "And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new." Leviticus 26:10

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:18

Christ doesn't replace His own words. The Father and the Son are the architects of salvation and of the chronological events from the beginning.

Colossians 1:12-19 "He is before all things, and by him all things consist."
 
Last edited:
M

michael56

Banned
#35
Feb 5, 2015
1,852
13
0
#35
To read some coments here, it would seem many believe the new covenant solely hinges on one core fact-Jesus dying on the cross. IT DOES NOT. It hinges on TWO CORE FACTS. Once that is understood and accepted, no one will speak of a licence to sin, or the law itself God requires you to keep being done away with.
 
just-me

just-me

Banned
#36
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#36
Grandpa said:
Paul didn't worship by observation of the law. Paul observed that faith in Christ and Christs' Work at the Law is what caused his own spiritual walk. Paul observed that this spiritual walk and his faith in Christ is true worship of the Father.

You are right that the law has instructions. Unfortunately for you is that those instructions can't be followed by you. They can only be fulfilled by the Lord Jesus Christ and His Growing of Spiritual Fruit in the heart of the believer.

Matthew 15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
Click to expand...
Well, I gave you the scriptures for you to read, so with your post and what you said I will quote. Paul was instructed and like all others like me and him, were/are not able to follow it with perfection. We agree on that one for sure.

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:" Acts 24:14

Is there a difference between observing and believing in your opinion? Semantics I suppose.
 
Last edited:
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#37
#37
Blain said:
Jesus clearly said he did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. The Law is God's holy words and he said his words will never disappear until things have come to pass, I myself find that obeying the law brings me closer to God
Click to expand...


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#38
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#38
just-me said:
Well, I gave you the scriptures for you to read, so with your post and what you said I will quote. Paul was instructed and like all others like me and him, were/are not able to follow if with perfection. We agree on that one for sure.

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:" Acts 24:14

Is there a difference between observing and believing in your opinion?
Click to expand...
Obviously there is.

Galatians 3:2-5
[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


All that the law and prophets could do was describe what we would have by the Spirit through Christ. How would you not believe the description of what you have when you have it? Of course you would believe the description and the prophecy of it.

Do you believe that the Light casts a shadow? Yes. Do you observe the shadow or the Light? Paul observed the Light.
 
just-me

just-me

Banned
#39
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#39
We all see the spiritual relevance in what Jesus taught about the sycamine tree being uprooted and thrown into the sea, describing faith as a tiny mustard seed. We also see the spiritual relevance of having faith to move a mountain out of our way. Why is it so difficult for the professing Christian to see spiritual relevance in the written law that God gave to Moses? It's just like the eye for and eye and at tooth for a tooth thing. Jesus never contradicted the true meaning of the law in any way. He wasn't attempting to teach something different in the law's original spiritual concepts. What's the problem?
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#40
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#40
Bowhunter2394 said:
It's funny because if you are discerning, the same ones who are preaching you are not saved by your 'works'.. are indeed the same ones trying tell and preach to you , you are 'saved by your works, claiming Christ and following and adhering to the Law and trying to fulfill that.. purdy easy to see that.. Paul warned against such 'deceivers' coming in to spy on our Liberty in Christ.. lolz. no different today. thats all folks!
Click to expand...
I wouldn't go making assumptions my friend. I don't get why ppl attack the law which was made by God himself and said these words will not pass away. The law does not save us and our works on how we keep the law doesn't either but the heart behind keeping it is what pleases God. Don't follow the law and keep his commandments because you think you have to do it because you love him.

He says to love the Lord your God with all your mind all your soul and all your strength, do you disagree? He says to love your neighbor as yourself which is where the phrase treat others as you want to be treated came from do you disagree? He said to not lie to not steal to not kill do you disagree? The law is not gone it is written on the hearts of those who truly love and adore God
 
You must log in or register to reply here.